Confederacy not as bad?

[Evangelical]

Just so you know in regards to sentiment of emancipation.

Northerners were at the time more racist than southerners, "not in my back yard" exists racially, and Northerners didn't want blacks in their states that's why they sold all their blacks south before "freeing" any remaining blacks of which there were nearly none.

Someone prominent said to the effect:

"The war ended slavery only for the worse fears of the boys in gray to be put upon everyone, including those in blue; that we are now all slaves of the government."

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Just so you know in regards to sentiment of emancipation.

Northerners were at the time more racist than southerners, "not in my back yard" exists racially, and Northerners didn't want blacks in their states that's why they sold all their blacks south before "freeing" any remaining blacks of which there were nearly none.

Someone prominent said to the effect:

"The war ended slavery only for the worse fears of the boys in gray to be put upon everyone, including those in blue; that we are now all slaves of the government."

Just to add to this, Illinois, and possibly others though I don't know for sure, made it illegal for African-Americans to immigrate to the state. And who supported this policy? One Abraham Lincoln.

 

[Evangelical]

Just so you know in regards to sentiment of emancipation.

Northerners were at the time more racist than southerners, "not in my back yard" exists racially, and Northerners didn't want blacks in their states that's why they sold all their blacks south before "freeing" any remaining blacks of which there were nearly none.

Someone prominent said to the effect:

"The war ended slavery only for the worse fears of the boys in gray to be put upon everyone, including those in blue; that we are now all slaves of the government."

Just to add to this, Illinois, and possibly others though I don't know for sure, made it illegal for African-Americans to immigrate to the state. And who supported this policy? One Abraham Lincoln.

Philadelphia allowed Whites to "scourge" Blacks if found in town after dark as late as 1870. Scourging means to whip, and beat severely.

 

[Evangelical]

I mention this elsewhere so I'll mention it here where it's more relevant.

Slaves had the longest lifespan of any demographic in the US at the time.

Slaves had a higher caloric intake (on average) than even their Masters.

Slaves worked an average of about 3-4 months out of the year (the typical labor time for a single crop plantation).

Slaves had some impressive slave quarters.

Slave quarters in Cahawba, Alabama.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sempervirens/159775442/

Basically slaves had a better standard of living than any factory worker in Free States, and the Abolitionist movement lied or misrepresented slavery to make it look worse to gain sympathizers.

It doesn't change the fact that slaves earned to be free in general, that masters sometimes were abusive, that slavery is demeaning, that without freedom a person's spirit is crushed, that the threat of slave rebellion required oppressive tyrannical measures of control in the South.

But, still, a slave's life was often better than free labor counterparts, it wouldn't be until after the Golden Era that the standard of living of most laborers would improve well past that of a slave's, and today there's no comparison.

A slave could not be paid enough in kind (services, housing, food etc.) to compensate for the lavish lifestyle we live for 8hr/ work days.

 

[JBeukema]

Just so you know in regards to sentiment of emancipation.

Northerners were at the time more racist than southerners, "not in my back yard" exists racially, and Northerners didn't want blacks in their states that's why they sold all their blacks south before "freeing" any remaining blacks of which there were nearly none.

Someone prominent said to the effect:

"The war ended slavery only for the worse fears of the boys in gray to be put upon everyone, including those in blue; that we are now all slaves of the government."

of course... where were the Jim Crow laws and the Black Codes put into effect, again? Where id thee Klan start and the Freedom Rider bombings later take place? Was it New york?

 

[Evangelical]

Just so you know in regards to sentiment of emancipation.

Northerners were at the time more racist than southerners, "not in my back yard" exists racially, and Northerners didn't want blacks in their states that's why they sold all their blacks south before "freeing" any remaining blacks of which there were nearly none.

Someone prominent said to the effect:

"The war ended slavery only for the worse fears of the boys in gray to be put upon everyone, including those in blue; that we are now all slaves of the government."

of course... where were the Jim Crow laws and the Black Codes put into effect, again? Where id thee Klan start and the Freedom Rider bombings later take place? Was it New york?

What's your point? You're saying because you can name one or two instances of racism but you can't name any of the others, you think somehow magically the racism only existed in the South?

 

[JBeukema]

1) 'one or two instances'?! I threw out two blanket terms that cover entire litany of abuses

2)Nowhere did I say that. Nice strawman, though

 

[Evangelical]

1) 'one or two instances'?! I threw out two blanket terms that cover entire litany of abuses

2)Nowhere did I say that. Nice strawman, though

I don't mean instances to mean isolation, learn the meaning of the word.

I asked what is your point?

You for some reason bring up two instances of a long line of abuses, and you apparently don't know anything about the Northern contribution.

So why do you bring it up at all? Do you have something to add?

Oh wait, let's see, you make the regional reference "where were the Jim Crow Laws etc...."

What does that matter?

That does not change the fact that the North was more Racist than the South before the Civil War.

 

[Evangelical]

At least freed blacks weren't scourged in the South, and beaten by mobs of angry immigrants.

 

[JBeukema]

Nope, just recaptured and made slaves again as soon as they wandered too far away from thier 'former' master

Yes, sharecropping really was an improvement...

 

[Evangelical]

Nope, just recaptured and made slaves again as soon as they wandered too far away from thier 'former' master

Yes, sharecropping really was an improvement...

Again, what's your point?

 

[JBeukema]

that glorifying the south is foolish

 

[Evangelical]

that glorifying the south is foolish

Why? Most of the greatest of the Founding Fathers came from the South, most of the early Presidents Jefferson notwithstanding, came from the South.

The independent, do-it-yourself, small government populist beliefs that America has come to largely recognize, came from the South (the North were Yeoman farmers and cottagers who relied heavily upon civil government to provide them the means with which to bring manufactures to market; so from the beginning they were dependents).

The South's anti-federalist papers greatly shaped how the debate would evolve to create the federalist papers.

The Federalist Papers would establish the basis of interpretation for the US Constitution.

 

[JBeukema]

anti-fedealists were limp-wristed weaklings. No Confederacy could possibly stand. Only a republic had the strength to survive

 

[Evangelical]

anti-fedealists were limp-wristed weaklings. No Confederacy could possibly stand. Only a republic had the strength to survive

The Southern Confederacy was a strong federal republic, modeled almost identically to the US Constitution. Southerners were convinced by the 1860 that the Union was a good model of government but that the Union as then contained two uncompromising groups of ideologies.

The Anti-Federalists were hardly limp-wristed weaklings do you even know one subject matter of the Anti-Federalist papers?

 

[JBeukema]

anti-fedealists were limp-wristed weaklings. No Confederacy could possibly stand. Only a republic had the strength to survive

The Southern Confederacy was a strong federal republic, modeled almost identically to the US Constitution. Southerners were convinced by the 1860 that the Union was a good model of government but that the Union as then contained two uncompromising groups of ideologies.

Impossible by definition. A Confederacy and a Federation are two very different systems. Or do you intend to tell me they were too stupid to know what they were?

 

[Evangelical]

anti-fedealists were limp-wristed weaklings. No Confederacy could possibly stand. Only a republic had the strength to survive

The Southern Confederacy was a strong federal republic, modeled almost identically to the US Constitution. Southerners were convinced by the 1860 that the Union was a good model of government but that the Union as then contained two uncompromising groups of ideologies.

Impossible by definition. A Confederacy and a Federation are two very different systems. Or do you intend to tell me they were too stupid to know what they were?

No, I'm telling you you're too stupid to know what a Confederacy is. Read the CS Constitution and tell me what kind of Government it constructed.

 

[JBeukema]

No, I'm telling you you're too stupid to know what a Confederacy is. Read the CS Constitution and tell me what kind of Government it constructed.

Yes, let's do that..
The Constitution: text

Let's search for 'Conf-'
First result:

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Let's search 'repub-'
First hit

Article 4 Section 4 - Republican government

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government...

 

[JBeukema]

The US is a federation. The UN is a confederation

 

[Evangelical]

The US is a federation. The UN is a confederation

Not by any definition of the word.

You're using a high school level of understanding of comparative politics without knowing what limits of knowledge you actually have.

The UN is not a Confederacy at all, the UN is not a binding alliance for all states involved.

A Confederacy is a Union, the United States even today is still considered a Confederacy.

The word Federation, actually in the same use as "Confederacy" is the word "Federacy".

And a Federacy is in fact the EXACT same thing as a Confederacy.

So the United States is also a Federacy.

The difference is usually if any, antagonisms toward one another, a federacy is united against a confederacy in two separate leagues.