Compromise on Illegal Aliens: Win-Win

[JakeStarkey]

The wages did go up dramatically in GA for agricultural workers, and in the last three summers crops still wasted in the fields because American citizens won't work in the fields

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

You pointedly ignored the main point of my post.
The cost would not rise 800% even if you doubled their wages to twelve bucks an hour.

OK, I'll admit I was exaggerating to make a point. The problem is, you discussed if we hired Americans the wages for farmhands would double. So I put out that even at just that rate, the nation couldn't take doubling the price of food at the grocery store. Do you think it could with no political/social repercussions? Or would it be a better idea to keep the wages of farm hands where they are right now? And who would take those jobs at half minimum wage for some of the most physically demanding work we have in this country?

Dude!!!!! The mexican pickers make on average six bucks an hour,which is only slightly below min wage. Google it your damn self and you'll see,some make more than min wage.
And picking fruit is hardly demanding,boring yes,demanding,no.
Food prices have already sky rocketed because of gas prices,expect them to drop now that fuel prices are dropping.
I dont know about you but paying three or four bucks for a loaf of bread wont change my life one bit.
I understand what you're trying to convey and in a theoretical sense it might work.
I say fuck em,kick em out and only hand out enough visas to do the work necessary.

 

[Oldglory1]

The wages did go up dramatically in GA for agricultural workers, and in the last three summers crops still wasted in the fields because American citizens won't work in the fields

There are unlimited H-2A visas for legal, foreign ag workers. Try again.
Of course most Americans won't pick crops for a living. Most Americans are educated and seek jobs in like fields. Picking crops is not a career job and it is back breaking work. The growers just choose to use cheap, illegal labor to increase their profits instead of using those visas. You're way off base here.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Thank you, OldGlory1, for backing into agreement with me.

Those jobs have gone unfilled and crops wasted in the fields.

 

[Oldglory1]

Thank you, OldGlory1, for backing into agreement with me.

Those jobs have gone unfilled and crops wasted in the fields.

The crops wasted in the fields because the cheap growers refused to use the visas for legal, foreign workers and they got busted for using illegal aliens. So, no we aren't in agreement.

 

[Silhouette]

Dude!!!!! The mexican pickers make on average six bucks an hour,which is only slightly below min wage. Google it your damn self and you'll see,some make more than min wage.
And picking fruit is hardly demanding,boring yes,demanding,no.
Food prices have already sky rocketed because of gas prices,expect them to drop now that fuel prices are dropping.
I dont know about you but paying three or four bucks for a loaf of bread wont change my life one bit.
I understand what you're trying to convey and in a theoretical sense it might work.
I say fuck em,kick em out and only hand out enough visas to do the work necessary.

Legals or illegals? I mean, the owners aren't declaring illegal under the table wages are they? You're talking about the scant few foremen who speak fluent spanish and are legal aliens? Those wages? I'm talking about the ones bent over at the waist all day in the hot sun. Not the guys up on the trucks barking orders.

Doubling those grunt workers' wages will double the cost of food. This isn't that hard to calculate really.

 

[Oldglory1]

Dude!!!!! The mexican pickers make on average six bucks an hour,which is only slightly below min wage. Google it your damn self and you'll see,some make more than min wage.
And picking fruit is hardly demanding,boring yes,demanding,no.
Food prices have already sky rocketed because of gas prices,expect them to drop now that fuel prices are dropping.
I dont know about you but paying three or four bucks for a loaf of bread wont change my life one bit.
I understand what you're trying to convey and in a theoretical sense it might work.
I say fuck em,kick em out and only hand out enough visas to do the work necessary.

Legals or illegals? I mean, the owners aren't declaring illegal under the table wages are they? You're talking about the scant few foremen who speak fluent spanish and are legal aliens? Those wages? I'm talking about the ones bent over at the waist all day in the hot sun. Not the guys up on the trucks barking orders.

Doubling those grunt workers' wages will double the cost of food. This isn't that hard to calculate really.

You're out of your mind! The cost of produce would not go up much if any. Costs will only meet what the market can bear. Besides, these greedy growers are passing the social costs of cheap, illegal labor unto we the taxpayer while they pocket the profits so we aren't getting any bargain from them.

 

[Katzndogz]

In most other industrialized countries agriculture is already mechanized. Harvesting is done by machines. Mechanization is fought here so there will be a need for more illegals. If we really need that kind of labor then we should bring back the chain gang and send prisoners to work in the fields. China does it successfully. Field work is part of the work rehabilitation program for drug users.

A loaf of bread not only won't cost $20.00 it might even go down from where it is.

 

[Silhouette]

You're out of your mind! The cost of produce would not go up much if any. Costs will only meet what the market can bear. Besides, these greedy growers are passing the social costs of cheap, illegal labor unto we the taxpayer while they pocket the profits so we aren't getting any bargain from them.

If the only illegal jobs were in the ag fields, the benefits to society by keeping the cost of food low would more than compensate for the needs of those people. Frequently they do not complain and work much harder than most American citizens for dirt wages. Any other field of employment and the employers get busted hard, fined hard and those illegals busted also. Then they go to the fields to work off their sentences instead of taxpayers having to put them up in expensive prisons.

It's the perfect solution to create disincentive for the bulk of illegals who come here. Same sentence for those that come here to do crimes and get caught...off to hard labor camps. You still feed and house them but by god they work it off.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Hispanics are an asset to this country in that without them we'd go broke buying food. Other than that they're taking American jobs. It's a middle view. I wouldn't expect the choirs on either side of the aisle to either understand a sensible outlook in the issue or take steps to manfiest that sensibility.

Some economists at WSU broke down the expenses for a lettuce farm. That $1.75 head of lettuce pays 18.5 cents for harvesting and 18.5 cents for packing at a rate of $12 per hour.

No one is going to go broke buying food when labor accounts for 21% of the cost at the supermarket.

The problem here is simple - if American farmers can exist only with the State subsidizing their labor, then America is better off without the farmers. Send that message to farmers and I guarantee you that they'll find a way to be profitable, just like their grandfathers found a way:

In the early 1960s, growers relied on seasonal Mexican laborers, brought in under the government's "bracero" program. The Mexicans picked the tomatoes that were then processed into ketchup and other products. In 1964 Congress killed the program despite growers' warnings that its abolition would doom their industry. What happened? Well, plant scientists developed oblong tomatoes that could be harvested by machine. Since then, California's tomato output has risen fivefold.
​

A machine doesn't drive drunk, nor does it have kids who need to be educated at State expense, nor does it get women pregnant, nor does it require medical care, nor does it require subsidized housing, nor does it require a pension, etc.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Here's more on farm labor as a percent of a family's total produce budget

Labor costs comprise only 6 percent of the price consumers pay for fresh produce. Thus, if farm wages were allowed to rise 40 percent, and if all the costs were passed on to consumers, the cost to the average household would be only about $8 a year.​

 

[Unkotare]

*yawn*

You know all this. Playing pretend can only stave off disaster for so long..

Like everyone "knows" Tokyo is being evacuated, genius?

 

[Silhouette]

Here's more on farm labor as a percent of a family's total produce budget

Labor costs comprise only 6 percent of the price consumers pay for fresh produce. Thus, if farm wages were allowed to rise 40 percent, and if all the costs were passed on to consumers, the cost to the average household would be only about $8 a year.​

So if aliens are outlawed in the fields, the growers will have to suck it for double that percent. I'm sure they'll be happy about that and will promise not to justify doubling the price of food. Capitalism can be soooooo friendly and sacraficing that way...

 

[Luddly Neddite]

No one is going to go broke buying food when labor accounts for 21% of the cost at the supermarket.

21% is an enormous amount. Family farms are already going broke trying to pay the higher wages. Raise them to an American standard, which is still well below the poverty level and more will go under.

No worries though because the big ag companies are buying them up at auction for pennies on the dollar.

Big money wins. The little guy loses.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Here's more on farm labor as a percent of a family's total produce budget

Labor costs comprise only 6 percent of the price consumers pay for fresh produce. Thus, if farm wages were allowed to rise 40 percent, and if all the costs were passed on to consumers, the cost to the average household would be only about $8 a year.​

So if aliens are outlawed in the fields, the growers will have to suck it for double that percent. I'm sure they'll be happy about that and will promise not to justify doubling the price of food. Capitalism can be soooooo friendly and sacraficing that way...

As noted, a 40% wage boost will end up costing consumers about $8 per year.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

As for the cure for the illegal immigration problem it is quite simple, but involes a few variables.

Allow them to come in and work ONLY for agriculture. Period. Any other employer caught with illegal employees gets fined hard. Maybe even jail time. Those illegals caught here doing crime or working at other employment, go on ag work camps for no money at all to serve their sentence.
Then when illegals are contemplating crossing our borders, they will think to themselves...hmmm...if I make it there, my only option at making money is to work like a dog in the fields. Some of the very young and strong ones will do this still. The rest will say to themselves..."nah, not worth it".

Anyone rich or idle enough to hire a maid to clean their house, mow their lawn or cook their meals has enough disposable cash to pay minimum wage to an American citizen to do that same job.

Freeze the minimum wages for now [sorry my dem friends] and instead give the bonus of universal healthcare. This will spur massive more employment with all that money freed up. Massively employed middle classes make for very rich people at the top when those folks start consuming again. Then those rich people can hire American citizens to clean up, cook and mow their lawns.

This will

1. Keep the price of food low, freeing up that money for the middle class to consume

2. Keep safe more jobs for actual Americans

3. Increase more jobs for actual Americans

4. Increase consuming.

5. Increase the GDP/reduce foriegn debt

6. Keep the herd healthier for things like..oh...I don't know..ebola outbreaks. When any herd member is unwealth to begin with, its resistance to infections is lower.

7. Create a disincentive for illegals and the people empolying them to cheat the system.

Problem solved. You're welcome.

A lot of huge gaping holes in this.

You really think Smithfield or Marriott is worried about paying fines? Its just another cost of doing business for them.

If you think slaughterhouses or cooks or roofing or hotel maids have easy work, you're wrong.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Here's more on farm labor as a percent of a family's total produce budget

Labor costs comprise only 6 percent of the price consumers pay for fresh produce. Thus, if farm wages were allowed to rise 40 percent, and if all the costs were passed on to consumers, the cost to the average household would be only about $8 a year.​

So if aliens are outlawed in the fields, the growers will have to suck it for double that percent. I'm sure they'll be happy about that and will promise not to justify doubling the price of food. Capitalism can be soooooo friendly and sacraficing that way...

As noted, a 40% wage boost will end up costing consumers about $8 per year.

The farmers who are paying that 40% would not realize an additional 40% profit.

 

[Oldglory1]

Here's more on farm labor as a percent of a family's total produce budget

Labor costs comprise only 6 percent of the price consumers pay for fresh produce. Thus, if farm wages were allowed to rise 40 percent, and if all the costs were passed on to consumers, the cost to the average household would be only about $8 a year.​

So if aliens are outlawed in the fields, the growers will have to suck it for double that percent. I'm sure they'll be happy about that and will promise not to justify doubling the price of food. Capitalism can be soooooo friendly and sacraficing that way...

What are you talking about? There are already unlimited H-2A visas for legal, foreign ag workers that most of the growers use. It is only a few that use illegal aliens and it's because of sheer greed to increase their profits. If you think that they are passing any savings on to you you're out of your mind. Besides, only 3% of illegals are picking crops. The rest of them are doing jobs that Americans have always been willing to do for a fair wage.

 

[Silhouette]

What are you talking about? There are already unlimited H-2A visas for legal, foreign ag workers that most of the growers use. It is only a few that use illegal aliens and it's because of sheer greed to increase their profits. If you think that they are passing any savings on to you you're out of your mind. Besides, only 3% of illegals are picking crops. The rest of them are doing jobs that Americans have always been willing to do for a fair wage.

Right, so you fine the crap out of employers outside ag who are hiring them. Increase penalties until it hurts. Take the illegals from those jobs and the ones running around selling drugs and doing crime...and put them in the fields to work off their sentences. DIS incentivize hiring illegals. That's the only way you'll stop the tide. Otherwise get used to it. You cannot be a hypocrite enjoying the cheap labor of illegals in factories and service jobs and then beat them up when they come in the country to take the jobs you're holding out to them like a tantalizing roast to a starving dog..

 

[Oldglory1]

What are you talking about? There are already unlimited H-2A visas for legal, foreign ag workers that most of the growers use. It is only a few that use illegal aliens and it's because of sheer greed to increase their profits. If you think that they are passing any savings on to you you're out of your mind. Besides, only 3% of illegals are picking crops. The rest of them are doing jobs that Americans have always been willing to do for a fair wage.

Right, so you fine the crap out of employers outside ag who are hiring them. Increase penalties until it hurts. Take the illegals from those jobs and the ones running around selling drugs and doing crime...and put them in the fields to work off their sentences. DIS incentivize hiring illegals. That's the only way you'll stop the tide. Otherwise get used to it. You cannot be a hypocrite enjoying the cheap labor of illegals in factories and service jobs and then beat them up when they come in the country to take the jobs you're holding out to them like a tantalizing roast to a starving dog..

It's a myth that illegal aliens are reducing costs in this country for the average American because those who hire them just pass their social costs on to us in the form of higher taxes. So there is no hypocricy. They also reduce wages for Americans and deplete job opportunities for Americans. The only ones embracing them are the greedy employers who hire them. Beat them up? Um no, just hold them accountable for being illegally in our country and deport them as our laws dictate. As for the employers mandate e-verity across the board and fine them out of existence for any non-compliance.