Communist Goals Accomplihed

[Bernhard]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

Just to make sure I've got this right:

Jan 6th was staged by someone other than Trump supporters to distract from the rigged election?

Thanks in advance.

It's sad what this world has become.

When so many people cannot tell opinion from news anymore, and news from propaganda lies, we really need a whole lot of luck and good fortune, if we believe in freedom, democracy and constitution.

I mean, seriously. All you had to do was switching on the tv to see Trump himself rallying up the crowd who stormed the capitol. It is all there, life on tv for everybody to see. This guy doesn't even try to cover what he's doing, yet people buy his crap.

I've reached a point at which I just hope this madness shrinks over time, and gets small enough to fit back on the fringe. I don't know how to communicate with them any more. So I just ask questions, trying to understand their various opinions.

Have you seen interviews with the rank-and-file base, and what they believe? This is real. They really do believe this stuff, and they'll go along with anything that MTG or Gaetz or the pillow guy or any of the rest of them say. All you can do is watch.

Yes, all we can do is watch ... and maybe sometimes have a nice chat with someone who isn't down the rabbit hole.

It's a bit different over here, and fortunately not (yet) as bad as it seems to be in America, but I've spoken with people like that. Here it's less about Trump, but there are quite a few Covid deniers here, the Russian propaganda outlet RT News is what FOX News/Newsmax are for Americans, and they have their "alternative facts" all straight ...

One of my brothers lives in London, and he says the same thing. He doesn't think that America's divisions in basic reality are as bad in Europe, but he does see signs of it.

Pretty soon we're going to need interpreters just to communicate with them.

I'm afraid this all won't end before we've found ways to deal with the opportunity of massive disinformation via "new media".

Maybe the rise of the internet and social media is a turning point, much like the invention of the printing press, or of radio and tv. The last times, massive unrests and wars started after these structural changes in the media.

Until a few years ago, tyrants attempted to suppress and censor free speech. Today, they use the information overabundance for massive disinformation campaigns.

When you believe in free speech, how do you deal with the enemies of freedom turning freedom of speech against itself?

 

[Seawytch]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

Just to make sure I've got this right:

Jan 6th was staged by someone other than Trump supporters to distract from the rigged election?

Thanks in advance.

It's sad what this world has become.

When so many people cannot tell opinion from news anymore, and news from propaganda lies, we really need a whole lot of luck and good fortune, if we believe in freedom, democracy and constitution.

I mean, seriously. All you had to do was switching on the tv to see Trump himself rallying up the crowd who stormed the capitol. It is all there, life on tv for everybody to see. This guy doesn't even try to cover what he's doing, yet people buy his crap.

I've reached a point at which I just hope this madness shrinks over time, and gets small enough to fit back on the fringe. I don't know how to communicate with them any more. So I just ask questions, trying to understand their various opinions.

Have you seen interviews with the rank-and-file base, and what they believe? This is real. They really do believe this stuff, and they'll go along with anything that MTG or Gaetz or the pillow guy or any of the rest of them say. All you can do is watch.

And invest in popcorn.

 

[Mac1958]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

Just to make sure I've got this right:

Jan 6th was staged by someone other than Trump supporters to distract from the rigged election?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, actually. There are people out there who have everything to gain by playing off the intense political division in America, by exploiting the political hatred. And inciting violence.

A fire needs a spark, but the fire does not care who starts it.

Or did that not occur to you?

Who is primarily to blame for the violence of Jan 6?

 

[Bernhard]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

Just to make sure I've got this right:

Jan 6th was staged by someone other than Trump supporters to distract from the rigged election?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, actually. There are people out there who have everything to gain by playing off the intense political division in America, by exploiting the political hatred. And inciting violence.

A fire needs a spark, but the fire does not care who starts it.

Or did that not occur to you?

I'd say it's more likely that Trump started it, but exactly for the reasons you are claiming:

Russia supported his election in 2016 with massive online fake news campaigns, and perhaps they did their best to get him reelected last year. It's all well documented.

Was that just because they believed Trump would be more lenient towards them, or was there more?

At any rate, they knew Trump divides the West, and that was good for them.

 

[Faun]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

LOLOL

Trump's base staged an insurrection??

I'll take note of you denying that Trump's base or his supporters were responsible for the riot.

Thanks in advance.

You must be demented to think I denied that.

 

[Seawytch]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

LOLOL

Trump's base staged an insurrection??

I'll take note of you denying that Trump's base or his supporters were responsible for the riot.

Thanks in advance.

Next to nobody believes it was anyone other than Trump supporters that stormed the capital bent on stopping the certification of the election and killing Mike Pence (for not stopping the certification of the election)

 

[Seawytch]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

Just to make sure I've got this right:

Jan 6th was staged by someone other than Trump supporters to distract from the rigged election?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, actually. There are people out there who have everything to gain by playing off the intense political division in America, by exploiting the political hatred. And inciting violence.

A fire needs a spark, but the fire does not care who starts it.

Or did that not occur to you?

Who is primarily to blame for the violence of Jan 6?

I would add to that question “and what was their goal?”

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

you keep proving you are a commie paid shill who hates America denying reality there was massive vote fraud and ignoring ANTIFA funded by the dems cowardly attacked trump supporters that were children and women two weeks before that and how trump supporters tried to stap adem antifa from sotrming the capitol idiot. we are in a tyranny in American right now because of biden and people and even people who voted for Biden not on the net realise they screwed up shill.

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

exactly.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

LOLOL

Trump's base staged an insurrection??

I'll take note of you denying that Trump's base or his supporters were responsible for the riot.

Thanks in advance.

Next to nobody believes it was anyone other than Trump supporters that stormed the capital bent on stopping the certification of the election and killing Mike Pence (for not stopping the certification of the election)

what a lying dumbfuck shill.,the entire world knows it was the democrat funded antifa that stormed it dumbass.

 

[Mac1958]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

Just to make sure I've got this right:

Jan 6th was staged by someone other than Trump supporters to distract from the rigged election?

Thanks in advance.

It's sad what this world has become.

When so many people cannot tell opinion from news anymore, and news from propaganda lies, we really need a whole lot of luck and good fortune, if we believe in freedom, democracy and constitution.

I mean, seriously. All you had to do was switching on the tv to see Trump himself rallying up the crowd who stormed the capitol. It is all there, life on tv for everybody to see. This guy doesn't even try to cover what he's doing, yet people buy his crap.

I've reached a point at which I just hope this madness shrinks over time, and gets small enough to fit back on the fringe. I don't know how to communicate with them any more. So I just ask questions, trying to understand their various opinions.

Have you seen interviews with the rank-and-file base, and what they believe? This is real. They really do believe this stuff, and they'll go along with anything that MTG or Gaetz or the pillow guy or any of the rest of them say. All you can do is watch.

Yes, all we can do is watch ... and maybe sometimes have a nice chat with someone who isn't down the rabbit hole.

It's a bit different over here, and fortunately not (yet) as bad as it seems to be in America, but I've spoken with people like that. Here it's less about Trump, but there are quite a few Covid deniers here, the Russian propaganda outlet RT News is what FOX News/Newsmax are for Americans, and they have their "alternative facts" all straight ...

One of my brothers lives in London, and he says the same thing. He doesn't think that America's divisions in basic reality are as bad in Europe, but he does see signs of it.

Pretty soon we're going to need interpreters just to communicate with them.

I'm afraid this all won't end before we've found ways to deal with the opportunity of massive disinformation via "new media".

Maybe the rise of the internet and social media is a turning point, much like the invention of the printing press, or of radio and tv. The last times, massive unrests and wars started after these structural changes in the media.

Until a few years ago, tyrants attempted to suppress and censor free speech. Today, they use the information overabundance for massive disinformation campaigns.

When you believe in free speech, how do you deal with the enemies of freedom turning freedom of speech against itself?

Well, that's a great question. I'm a lifelong crazed advocate of freedom of expression, and I very much want everyone's opinion to be heard. That hasn't changed, but these people are certainly putting a strain on my advocacy.

It seems to me that for freedom of expression to function as intended, it does require at least an agreement on reality, and incredibly we're simply no longer there. It also essentially works on the honor system, and now there are too many people who have a vested professional interest in keeping Americans misinformed, angry, paranoid and separate.

These people have created a fully functioning, closed circuit alternate reality, one that is simply no longer tethered to the rest of the country. It's incredible. And I don't know how this is going to work within the context of freedom of expression. I do not want to lose that important liberal American value.

 

[B. Kidd]

This is what you support if you support this illegitimate administration. Look at this one.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use “united force” to solve economic, political, or social problems


DONE. We’ve watched BLM and their sisters in Antifa burn our cities for over a year since the death of George FLoyd, and we watched them get away with it.


If you’re counting, that’s 17 pinko goals that have already been achieved. We can debate the others, and we should, soon, because the Marxists are succeeding at an alarming rate.

In 1958 Communists Had 45 Goals to Take Over the U.S. Without Firing a Shot. Here Are the Ones They've Already Achieved

Yes they are! They are in awe of their success!!

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Nice

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

He also played the usual game of dodgeball he always does how the dems have burned down major cities controlled by dems,.a commie shill that has penetrated this site who hates America, the people with a conscince that voted for Biden because they have been long time democrats,they are admitting they made a mistake unlike these fucking ass traiter trolls like him.

 

[Bernhard]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

Just to make sure I've got this right:

Jan 6th was staged by someone other than Trump supporters to distract from the rigged election?

Thanks in advance.

It's sad what this world has become.

When so many people cannot tell opinion from news anymore, and news from propaganda lies, we really need a whole lot of luck and good fortune, if we believe in freedom, democracy and constitution.

I mean, seriously. All you had to do was switching on the tv to see Trump himself rallying up the crowd who stormed the capitol. It is all there, life on tv for everybody to see. This guy doesn't even try to cover what he's doing, yet people buy his crap.

I've reached a point at which I just hope this madness shrinks over time, and gets small enough to fit back on the fringe. I don't know how to communicate with them any more. So I just ask questions, trying to understand their various opinions.

Have you seen interviews with the rank-and-file base, and what they believe? This is real. They really do believe this stuff, and they'll go along with anything that MTG or Gaetz or the pillow guy or any of the rest of them say. All you can do is watch.

Yes, all we can do is watch ... and maybe sometimes have a nice chat with someone who isn't down the rabbit hole.

It's a bit different over here, and fortunately not (yet) as bad as it seems to be in America, but I've spoken with people like that. Here it's less about Trump, but there are quite a few Covid deniers here, the Russian propaganda outlet RT News is what FOX News/Newsmax are for Americans, and they have their "alternative facts" all straight ...

One of my brothers lives in London, and he says the same thing. He doesn't think that America's divisions in basic reality are as bad in Europe, but he does see signs of it.

Pretty soon we're going to need interpreters just to communicate with them.

I'm afraid this all won't end before we've found ways to deal with the opportunity of massive disinformation via "new media".

Maybe the rise of the internet and social media is a turning point, much like the invention of the printing press, or of radio and tv. The last times, massive unrests and wars started after these structural changes in the media.

Until a few years ago, tyrants attempted to suppress and censor free speech. Today, they use the information overabundance for massive disinformation campaigns.

When you believe in free speech, how do you deal with the enemies of freedom turning freedom of speech against itself?

Well, that's a great question. I'm a lifelong crazed advocate of freedom of expression, and I very much want everyone's opinion to be heard. That hasn't changed, but these people are certainly putting a strain on my advocacy.

It seems to me that for freedom of expression to function as intended, it does require at least an agreement on reality, and incredibly we're simply no longer there. It also essentially works on the honor system, and now there are too many people who have a vested professional interest in keeping Americans misinformed, angry, paranoid and separate.

These people have created a fully functioning, closed circuit alternate reality, one that is simply no longer tethered to the rest of the country. It's incredible. And I don't know how this is going to work within the context of freedom of expression. I do not want to lose that important liberal American value.

Yes, I feel similar... and I have no good ideas about what to do, either.

Maybe at least genuine fake news could be countered, by making social media platforms legally responsible for the stuff posted there. If someone who becomes target of lies or slander could successfully sue Facebook or Youtube, they'd finally take care what happens on their platforms. That could be a start.

But then, you'd still have all this stuff that isn't outright fake news, but just heavy bias and framing, "just asking questions" and so on, which oftentimes is just as bad.

As a long term measure, maybe competence in dealing with information should become a general topic in schools ... but considering how bad the situation is in education, maybe that's not realistic. And perhaps not quite effective, as pupils are eventually more influenced by their environment, rather than schools.

 

[Seawytch]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

LOLOL

Trump's base staged an insurrection??

I'll take note of you denying that Trump's base or his supporters were responsible for the riot.

Thanks in advance.

Next to nobody believes it was anyone other than Trump supporters that stormed the capital bent on stopping the certification of the election and killing Mike Pence (for not stopping the certification of the election)

what a lying dumbfuck shill.,the entire world knows it was the democrat funded antifa that stormed it dumbass.
View attachment 494682

No, I’m sorry, crazy person. A majority of cultists is a minority everywhere else.

More than half of Republicans blame the Jan. 6 Capitol attack on“left-wing” rioters, a new poll finds. (Published 2021)

The survey is a vivid illustration of the effectiveness of misinformation efforts, echoed by right-wing social media.

www.nytimes.com

 

[dudmuck]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

LOLOL

Trump's base staged an insurrection??

I'll take note of you denying that Trump's base or his supporters were responsible for the riot.

Thanks in advance.

Next to nobody believes it was anyone other than Trump supporters that stormed the capital bent on stopping the certification of the election and killing Mike Pence (for not stopping the certification of the election)

what a lying dumbfuck shill.,the entire world knows it was the democrat funded antifa that stormed it dumbass.
View attachment 494682

Antifa followed Trump's orders to stop the electoral vote certification?

 

[Mac1958]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

Just to make sure I've got this right:

Jan 6th was staged by someone other than Trump supporters to distract from the rigged election?

Thanks in advance.

It's sad what this world has become.

When so many people cannot tell opinion from news anymore, and news from propaganda lies, we really need a whole lot of luck and good fortune, if we believe in freedom, democracy and constitution.

I mean, seriously. All you had to do was switching on the tv to see Trump himself rallying up the crowd who stormed the capitol. It is all there, life on tv for everybody to see. This guy doesn't even try to cover what he's doing, yet people buy his crap.

I've reached a point at which I just hope this madness shrinks over time, and gets small enough to fit back on the fringe. I don't know how to communicate with them any more. So I just ask questions, trying to understand their various opinions.

Have you seen interviews with the rank-and-file base, and what they believe? This is real. They really do believe this stuff, and they'll go along with anything that MTG or Gaetz or the pillow guy or any of the rest of them say. All you can do is watch.

Yes, all we can do is watch ... and maybe sometimes have a nice chat with someone who isn't down the rabbit hole.

It's a bit different over here, and fortunately not (yet) as bad as it seems to be in America, but I've spoken with people like that. Here it's less about Trump, but there are quite a few Covid deniers here, the Russian propaganda outlet RT News is what FOX News/Newsmax are for Americans, and they have their "alternative facts" all straight ...

One of my brothers lives in London, and he says the same thing. He doesn't think that America's divisions in basic reality are as bad in Europe, but he does see signs of it.

Pretty soon we're going to need interpreters just to communicate with them.

I'm afraid this all won't end before we've found ways to deal with the opportunity of massive disinformation via "new media".

Maybe the rise of the internet and social media is a turning point, much like the invention of the printing press, or of radio and tv. The last times, massive unrests and wars started after these structural changes in the media.

Until a few years ago, tyrants attempted to suppress and censor free speech. Today, they use the information overabundance for massive disinformation campaigns.

When you believe in free speech, how do you deal with the enemies of freedom turning freedom of speech against itself?

Well, that's a great question. I'm a lifelong crazed advocate of freedom of expression, and I very much want everyone's opinion to be heard. That hasn't changed, but these people are certainly putting a strain on my advocacy.

It seems to me that for freedom of expression to function as intended, it does require at least an agreement on reality, and incredibly we're simply no longer there. It also essentially works on the honor system, and now there are too many people who have a vested professional interest in keeping Americans misinformed, angry, paranoid and separate.

These people have created a fully functioning, closed circuit alternate reality, one that is simply no longer tethered to the rest of the country. It's incredible. And I don't know how this is going to work within the context of freedom of expression. I do not want to lose that important liberal American value.

Yes, I feel similar... and I have no good ideas about what to do, either.

Maybe at least genuine fake news could be countered, by making social media platforms legally responsible for the stuff posted there. If someone who becomes target of lies or slander could successfully sue Facebook or Youtube, they'd finally take care what happens on their platforms. That could be a start.

But then, you'd still have all this stuff that isn't outright fake news, but just heavy bias and framing, "just asking questions" and so on, which oftentimes is just as bad.

As a long term measure, maybe competence in dealing with information should become a general topic in schools ... but considering how bad the situation is in education, maybe that's not realistic. And perhaps not quite effective, as pupils are eventually more influenced by their environment, rather than schools.

Interesting idea. I've also wondered if it's possible to maintain some kind of self-policing industry organization. I'm a financial advisor here, and we have FINRA doing that. I'd have to think about the negative implications, but I'm imagining it could enforce requirements and standards for sources calling themselves "news".

It would be nice if, like professional wrestling, these people would admit what they are. But that's not going to happen. Too much money and fame.

 

[Lastamender]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

Just to make sure I've got this right:

Jan 6th was staged by someone other than Trump supporters to distract from the rigged election?

Thanks in advance.

It's sad what this world has become.

When so many people cannot tell opinion from news anymore, and news from propaganda lies, we really need a whole lot of luck and good fortune, if we believe in freedom, democracy and constitution.

I mean, seriously. All you had to do was switching on the tv to see Trump himself rallying up the crowd who stormed the capitol. It is all there, life on tv for everybody to see. This guy doesn't even try to cover what he's doing, yet people buy his crap.

I've reached a point at which I just hope this madness shrinks over time, and gets small enough to fit back on the fringe. I don't know how to communicate with them any more. So I just ask questions, trying to understand their various opinions.

Have you seen interviews with the rank-and-file base, and what they believe? This is real. They really do believe this stuff, and they'll go along with anything that MTG or Gaetz or the pillow guy or any of the rest of them say. All you can do is watch.

Yes, all we can do is watch ... and maybe sometimes have a nice chat with someone who isn't down the rabbit hole.

It's a bit different over here, and fortunately not (yet) as bad as it seems to be in America, but I've spoken with people like that. Here it's less about Trump, but there are quite a few Covid deniers here, the Russian propaganda outlet RT News is what FOX News/Newsmax are for Americans, and they have their "alternative facts" all straight ...

One of my brothers lives in London, and he says the same thing. He doesn't think that America's divisions in basic reality are as bad in Europe, but he does see signs of it.

Pretty soon we're going to need interpreters just to communicate with them.

I'm afraid this all won't end before we've found ways to deal with the opportunity of massive disinformation via "new media".

Maybe the rise of the internet and social media is a turning point, much like the invention of the printing press, or of radio and tv. The last times, massive unrests and wars started after these structural changes in the media.

Until a few years ago, tyrants attempted to suppress and censor free speech. Today, they use the information overabundance for massive disinformation campaigns.

When you believe in free speech, how do you deal with the enemies of freedom turning freedom of speech against itself?

Well, that's a great question. I'm a lifelong crazed advocate of freedom of expression, and I very much want everyone's opinion to be heard. That hasn't changed, but these people are certainly putting a strain on my advocacy.

It seems to me that for freedom of expression to function as intended, it does require at least an agreement on reality, and incredibly we're simply no longer there. It also essentially works on the honor system, and now there are too many people who have a vested professional interest in keeping Americans misinformed, angry, paranoid and separate.

These people have created a fully functioning, closed circuit alternate reality, one that is simply no longer tethered to the rest of the country. It's incredible. And I don't know how this is going to work within the context of freedom of expression. I do not want to lose that important liberal American value.

The people fully invested in keeping Americans misinformed, angry, and paranoid are the people you support. Tell us something we don't know.

 

[Dragonlady]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

Just to make sure I've got this right:

Jan 6th was staged by someone other than Trump supporters to distract from the rigged election?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, actually. There are people out there who have everything to gain by playing off the intense political division in America, by exploiting the political hatred. And inciting violence.

A fire needs a spark, but the fire does not care who starts it.

Or did that not occur to you?

I'd say it's more likely that Trump started it, but exactly for the reasons you are claiming:

Russia supported his election in 2016 with massive online fake news campaigns, and perhaps they did their best to get him reelected last year. It's all well documented.

Was that just because they believed Trump would be more lenient towards them, or was there more?

At any rate, they knew Trump divides the West, and that was good for them.

Trump fractured NATO, and divided the USA like never before, crashed the economy, and displace the USA as the leader of the free world.

Trump tore up all American trade agreements and continues to undermine Americans' faith in their elections. He's the best investment Putin ever made.

 

[Lastamender]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

Just to make sure I've got this right:

Jan 6th was staged by someone other than Trump supporters to distract from the rigged election?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, actually. There are people out there who have everything to gain by playing off the intense political division in America, by exploiting the political hatred. And inciting violence.

A fire needs a spark, but the fire does not care who starts it.

Or did that not occur to you?

I'd say it's more likely that Trump started it, but exactly for the reasons you are claiming:

Russia supported his election in 2016 with massive online fake news campaigns, and perhaps they did their best to get him reelected last year. It's all well documented.

Was that just because they believed Trump would be more lenient towards them, or was there more?

At any rate, they knew Trump divides the West, and that was good for them.

Trump fractured NATO, and divided the USA like never before, crashed the economy, and displace the USA as the leader of the free world.

Trump tore up all American trade agreements and continues to undermine Americans' faith in their elections. He's the best investment Putin ever made.

 

[Dragonlady]

Your diselected President attempted a putsch by rallying up a mob storming the capital, and you blame anybody else than Trump and his supporters, who were just one tiny step away from erecting a tyranny in America? Seriously?

Bullshit. That was staged to distract from the fraud. Another part of the cover up that has failed miserably.

Just to make sure I've got this right:

Jan 6th was staged by someone other than Trump supporters to distract from the rigged election?

Thanks in advance.

It's sad what this world has become.

When so many people cannot tell opinion from news anymore, and news from propaganda lies, we really need a whole lot of luck and good fortune, if we believe in freedom, democracy and constitution.

I mean, seriously. All you had to do was switching on the tv to see Trump himself rallying up the crowd who stormed the capitol. It is all there, life on tv for everybody to see. This guy doesn't even try to cover what he's doing, yet people buy his crap.

I've reached a point at which I just hope this madness shrinks over time, and gets small enough to fit back on the fringe. I don't know how to communicate with them any more. So I just ask questions, trying to understand their various opinions.

Have you seen interviews with the rank-and-file base, and what they believe? This is real. They really do believe this stuff, and they'll go along with anything that MTG or Gaetz or the pillow guy or any of the rest of them say. All you can do is watch.

Yes, all we can do is watch ... and maybe sometimes have a nice chat with someone who isn't down the rabbit hole.

It's a bit different over here, and fortunately not (yet) as bad as it seems to be in America, but I've spoken with people like that. Here it's less about Trump, but there are quite a few Covid deniers here, the Russian propaganda outlet RT News is what FOX News/Newsmax are for Americans, and they have their "alternative facts" all straight ...

One of my brothers lives in London, and he says the same thing. He doesn't think that America's divisions in basic reality are as bad in Europe, but he does see signs of it.

Pretty soon we're going to need interpreters just to communicate with them.

I'm afraid this all won't end before we've found ways to deal with the opportunity of massive disinformation via "new media".

Maybe the rise of the internet and social media is a turning point, much like the invention of the printing press, or of radio and tv. The last times, massive unrests and wars started after these structural changes in the media.

Until a few years ago, tyrants attempted to suppress and censor free speech. Today, they use the information overabundance for massive disinformation campaigns.

When you believe in free speech, how do you deal with the enemies of freedom turning freedom of speech against itself?

Well, that's a great question. I'm a lifelong crazed advocate of freedom of expression, and I very much want everyone's opinion to be heard. That hasn't changed, but these people are certainly putting a strain on my advocacy.

It seems to me that for freedom of expression to function as intended, it does require at least an agreement on reality, and incredibly we're simply no longer there. It also essentially works on the honor system, and now there are too many people who have a vested professional interest in keeping Americans misinformed, angry, paranoid and separate.

These people have created a fully functioning, closed circuit alternate reality, one that is simply no longer tethered to the rest of the country. It's incredible. And I don't know how this is going to work within the context of freedom of expression. I do not want to lose that important liberal American value.

Yes, I feel similar... and I have no good ideas about what to do, either.

Maybe at least genuine fake news could be countered, by making social media platforms legally responsible for the stuff posted there. If someone who becomes target of lies or slander could successfully sue Facebook or Youtube, they'd finally take care what happens on their platforms. That could be a start.

But then, you'd still have all this stuff that isn't outright fake news, but just heavy bias and framing, "just asking questions" and so on, which oftentimes is just as bad.

As a long term measure, maybe competence in dealing with information should become a general topic in schools ... but considering how bad the situation is in education, maybe that's not realistic. And perhaps not quite effective, as pupils are eventually more influenced by their environment, rather than schools.

Interesting idea. I've also wondered if it's possible to maintain some kind of self-policing industry organization. I'm a financial advisor here, and we have FINRA doing that. I'd have to think about the negative implications, but I'm imagining it could enforce requirements and standards for sources calling themselves "news".

It would be nice if, like professional wrestling, these people would admit what they are. But that's not going to happen. Too much money and fame.

There are still people who think professional wrestling is real.