Communism v Socialism

[CrusaderFrank]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otM3pWOBWWk]YouTube - ‪Van Jones Communist‬‎[/ame]

You were saying?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Labor needs capital, and capital needs labor.
It is a symbiotic relationship., the one thing they have in common is each wants what the other has.
Adding ideology into the mix, and that is exactly what the echo chamber does, prevents pragmatic solution to the inherent strife of this relationship. It does not help when really stupid people - see CrusdaerFrank for a prime example - post nonsense.

 

[boedicca]

Government doesn't provide Capital - it seizes income and wealth from some taxpayers in order to pay off other taxpayers.

 

[antagon]

It will never happen. Unions will not allow the politicians for whom they have bought and paid to create programs to hire people at reasonable, market based wages. The public which is footing the bill will not support a massive spending program to pay low-skilled workers higher pay (the union level) than they earn in the private sector.

The highest unemployment rates are for those with a high school level or less level of education. The value of that labor is not high in this economy - but the government won't acknowledge that fact.

unions' influence has slipped considerably in the last 50 years. how 'bout the next 50? i think it would be silly to assume that this century would mimic the last.

 

[antagon]

Government doesn't provide Capital - it seizes income and wealth from some taxpayers in order to pay off other taxpayers.

this is the extent of your understanding of how government works in an economy?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Government doesn't provide Capital - it seizes income and wealth from some taxpayers in order to pay off other taxpayers.

this is the extent of your understanding of how government works in an economy?

Sadly boedicca is much like crusaderfrank, both hold opinions based on their emotional reaction to populist propaganda - critical thinking is alien to them, and in fact scares them.

 

[washamericom]

it's time for illegal aliens to form their own union. they could get full benefits and make seventy dollars an hour to pick vegetables. they wouldn't need cardcheck because there "not really here".
they get one of the castro brothers or vicente fox to be their "leader". they self regulate their own influx to america as they do now, then we take all of the money being used on border control, and give the money to congress so they can waste it. everybody's a winner. they could have had a decent "clunker" to drive, but our dear leaders destroyed them all. how about bullfights in this country?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Labor needs capital, and capital needs labor.
It is a symbiotic relationship., the one thing they have in common is each wants what the other has.
Adding ideology into the mix, and that is exactly what the echo chamber does, prevents pragmatic solution to the inherent strife of this relationship. It does not help when really stupid people - see CrusdaerFrank for a prime example - post nonsense.

You were educated by Marxists, accordingly you have a flawed and very fucked up view of American Free Enterprise and Capitalism.

The only "Strife" between "Labor" and "Capital" is in your flawed "Thinking" and there's no way to argue you out of it either.

When you think and talk in terms of "Labor" and "Capital" it means you've been successfully brain washed into Marxist Thought.

Enjoy it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Labor needs capital, and capital needs labor.
It is a symbiotic relationship., the one thing they have in common is each wants what the other has.
Adding ideology into the mix, and that is exactly what the echo chamber does, prevents pragmatic solution to the inherent strife of this relationship. It does not help when really stupid people - see CrusdaerFrank for a prime example - post nonsense.

You were educated by Marxists, accordingly you have a flawed and very fucked up view of American Free Enterprise and Capitalism.

The only "Strife" between "Labor" and "Capital" is in your flawed "Thinking" and there's no way to argue you out of it either.

When you think and talk in terms of "Labor" and "Capital" it means you've been successfully brain washed into Marxist Thought.

Enjoy it.

Frank, you are perfect storm: Partisan, Ignorant and Stupid.

 

[bucs90]

Um..socialisms bad, mmmkay

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Labor needs capital, and capital needs labor.
It is a symbiotic relationship., the one thing they have in common is each wants what the other has.
Adding ideology into the mix, and that is exactly what the echo chamber does, prevents pragmatic solution to the inherent strife of this relationship. It does not help when really stupid people - see CrusdaerFrank for a prime example - post nonsense.

You were educated by Marxists, accordingly you have a flawed and very fucked up view of American Free Enterprise and Capitalism.

The only "Strife" between "Labor" and "Capital" is in your flawed "Thinking" and there's no way to argue you out of it either.

When you think and talk in terms of "Labor" and "Capital" it means you've been successfully brain washed into Marxist Thought.

Enjoy it.

Frank, you are perfect storm: Partisan, Ignorant and Stupid.

I'm not the one who has wholeheartedly and proudly accepted and embraced the Marxist notions of "Labor" and "Capital". Debate with the brainwashed is impossible

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wry, are you even aware that classifying groups into "Labor" and "Capital" is quintessential Marxism?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"According to Marx, the central driving force of capitalism is in the exploitation and alienation of labour."

Das Kapital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wry, were you not even aware you were quoting and thinking in Marxism?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Wry, are you even aware that classifying groups into "Labor" and "Capital" is quintessential Marxism?

No, I'm not "aware"; please educate me (this could be very interesting)

 

[antagon]

for the avoidance of doubt, frank, classical economics proposed capital and labor (and land) as distinct factors of production in advance of marx.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wry, are you even aware that classifying groups into "Labor" and "Capital" is quintessential Marxism?

No, I'm not "aware"; please educate me (this could be very interesting)

Start with Wikipedia, Wry.

Das Kapital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Work your way up to reading "your own thoughts" in "Das Kapital"

You had no idea you were spouting Marxism?

 

[antagon]

I'd rather this not evolve into the typical showdown between ideologies as much as a practical look at the evolution of American policy.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

for the avoidance of doubt, frank, classical economics proposed capital and labor (and land) as distinct factors of production in advance of marx.

Marxism is the fundamental misunderstanding of an economy being a "Struggle" or "Strife" between Kapital and Labour .

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'd rather this not evolve into the typical showdown between ideologies as much as a practical look at the evolution of American policy.

If you'd have a practical look with an audience that has no idea they are espousing Marxism, I'm more than happy to leave and you can have a nice "talk" with the ignorant.

 

[antagon]

for the avoidance of doubt, frank, classical economics proposed capital and labor (and land) as distinct factors of production in advance of marx.

Marxism is the fundamental misunderstanding of an economy being a "Struggle" or "Strife" between Kapital and Labour .

industrialization is the struggle or strife between capital and labor. this struggle brought about our civil war; it brought about socialism and communism in the US after the great depression. both marx and adam smith recognized this struggle, but each had clearly different solutions.

marxism is the misunderstanding that the government will be a better arbiter of capital's role in industrialized economies than would private corporations.