"Common Sense" Gun Control

[Oldguy]

Since more specific action on Obama's plan of action will be forthcoming in the next few days, I'm starting a new thread on the subject. I'll post each new directive, memorandum or executive order as they are released and we can discuss them there.


Here's the new thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...s-first-actions-on-guns-and-gun-violence.html

 

[Skull Pilot]

So if these ideas aren't worth a damn, let's hear your common sense solutions.

I don't need a solution because there is none.

People will kill each other with or without guns. People will commit suicide with or without guns.

If you're talking about Sandy Hook, then you have to realize that that tragedy could have been prevented by 2 sets of steel doors more effectively than any gun ban could have.

Criminals will always prey on society and each other so until you tell me how to eliminate all crime the only common sense solution is to allow people to protect themselves with any weapon they feel comfortable using.

 

[RDD_1210]

So if these ideas aren't worth a damn, let's hear your common sense solutions.

I don't need a solution because there is none.

People will kill each other with or without guns. People will commit suicide with or without guns.

If you're talking about Sandy Hook, then you have to realize that that tragedy could have been prevented by 2 sets of steel doors more effectively than any gun ban could have.

Criminals will always prey on society and each other so until you tell me how to eliminate all crime the only common sense solution is to allow people to protect themselves with any weapon they feel comfortable using.

So to summarize

You're selfish and lazy. Got it.

 

[syrenn]

So if these ideas aren't worth a damn, let's hear your common sense solutions.

I don't need a solution because there is none.

People will kill each other with or without guns. People will commit suicide with or without guns.

If you're talking about Sandy Hook, then you have to realize that that tragedy could have been prevented by 2 sets of steel doors more effectively than any gun ban could have.

Criminals will always prey on society and each other so until you tell me how to eliminate all crime the only common sense solution is to allow people to protect themselves with any weapon they feel comfortable using.

So to summarize

You're selfish and lazy. Got it.

i would think you would approve of selfish and lazy...... its the poster child of entitlements and the American liberal way remember?

 

[Skull Pilot]

So if these ideas aren't worth a damn, let's hear your common sense solutions.

I don't need a solution because there is none.

People will kill each other with or without guns. People will commit suicide with or without guns.

If you're talking about Sandy Hook, then you have to realize that that tragedy could have been prevented by 2 sets of steel doors more effectively than any gun ban could have.

Criminals will always prey on society and each other so until you tell me how to eliminate all crime the only common sense solution is to allow people to protect themselves with any weapon they feel comfortable using.

So to summarize

You're selfish and lazy. Got it.

Yeah I'm selfish because i don't like the idea of an armed criminal breaking into my house killing my dog raping my wife and burning my house down.

What does that make a person who wants to deny me the right to protect my wife from that type of violence?

 

[Stephanie]

Rambos don't like the top one...

Dems don't like to be reminded that the top one is capable of the same damage as the bottom one...

Duh, many of us Dems know that. I started hunting, alone, when I was six years old. I'm also a gun nut - but a reasonable one.

Hey, archery is also fun.

not one thing reasonable about you, stop lying
you would roll over and give up your rights if Obama told you too

 

[Dubya]

Dems don't like to be reminded that the top one is capable of the same damage as the bottom one...

You might be limited to 5 rounds on that hunting rifle, but you can buy a 30 round magazine for the bottom one. Which weapon could go into a room of 15 people and kill them all?

You can buy a 30 round mag for either.

Presently, you can.

I pointed that out to the person who said it was only 5 rounds and I posted a link to purchase it, when asked if it was an assault rifle.

The point is, in many states your magazine size is limited due to hunting laws. We have shotgun only deer hunting in my state. The reason is the state is flat and well populated. Shotgun laws require a three shell limit. If I was hunting deer with a rifle in another state, I wouldn't need a magazine, because one round would be enough.

If you can limit magazine size for animals, why can't you do it for people?

 

[Dubya]

both

If someone shoots 5 people, why are the other 10 just going to stand there and let him reload?

Probably.

But as I said one can buy a 10, 20, or 30 round mag for either rifle.

I can tape two 10 round mags together and still fire 20 rounds almost as fast as one person can empty one 20 round mag.

I know the old tape trick, I'm a Vietnam Era Marine Corps Veteran. Why do you people act like you are the only ones who know about guns? Are you a bunch of children?

Why are you against limiting magazine size?

 

[Stephanie]

Presidential Memorandum -- Improving Availability of Relevant Executive Branch Records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System

MEMORANDUM FOR THE HEADS OF EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES
SUBJECT: Improving Availability of Relevant Executive Branch Records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System
Since it became operational in 1998, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) has been an essential tool in the effort to ensure that individuals who are prohibited under Federal or State law from possessing firearms do not acquire them from Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs). The ability of the NICS to determine quickly and effectively whether an individual is prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm depends on the completeness and accuracy of the information made available to it by Federal, State, and tribal authorities.
The NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 (NIAA) (Public Law 110-180) was a bipartisan effort to strengthen the NICS by increasing the quantity and quality of relevant records from Federal, State, and tribal authorities accessible by the system. Among its requirements, the NIAA mandated that executive departments and agencies (agencies) provide relevant information, including criminal history records, certain adjudications related to the mental health of a person, and other information, to databases accessible by the NICS. Much progress has been made to identify information generated by agencies that is relevant to determining whether a person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms, but more must be done. Greater participation by agencies in identifying records they possess that are relevant to determining whether an individual is prohibited from possessing a firearm and a regularized process for submitting those records to the NICS will strengthen the accuracy and efficiency of the NICS, increasing public safety by keeping guns out of the hands of persons who cannot lawfully possess them.
Therefore, by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following:
Section 1. Improving the Availability of Records to the NICS. (a) Within 45 days of the date of this memorandum, and consistent with the process described in section 3 of this memorandum, the Department of Justice (DOJ) shall issue guidance to agencies regarding the identification and sharing of relevant Federal records and their submission to the NICS.
(b) Within 60 days of issuance of guidance pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, agencies shall submit a report to DOJ advising whether they possess relevant records, as set forth in the guidance, and setting forth an implementation plan for making information in those records available to the NICS, consistent with applicable law.
(c) In accordance with the authority and responsibility provided to the Attorney General by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Public Law 103-159), as amended, the Attorney General, consistent with the process described in section 3 of this memorandum, shall resolve any disputes concerning whether agency records are relevant and should be made available to the NICS.
(d) To the extent they possess relevant records, as set forth in the guidance issued pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, agencies shall prioritize making those records available to the NICS on a regular and ongoing basis.
Sec. 2. Measuring Progress. (a) By October 1, 2013, and annually thereafter, agencies that possess relevant records shall submit a report to the President through the Attorney General describing:
(i) the relevant records possessed by the agency that can be shared with the NICS consistent with applicable law;
(ii) the number of those records submitted to databases accessible by the NICS during each reporting period;
(iii) the efforts made to increase the percentage of relevant records possessed by the agency that are submitted to databases accessible by the NICS;
(iv) any obstacles to increasing the percentage of records that are submitted to databases accessible by the NICS;
(v) for agencies that make qualifying adjudications related to the mental health of a person, the measures put in place to provide notice and programs for relief from disabilities as required under the NIAA;
(vi) the measures put in place to correct, modify, or remove records accessible by the NICS when the basis under which the record was made available no longer applies; and
(vii) additional steps that will be taken within 1 year of the report to improve the processes by which records are identified, made accessible, and corrected, modified, or removed.
(b) If an agency certifies in its annual report that it has made available to the NICS its relevant records that can be shared consistent with applicable law, and describes its plan to make new records available to the NICS and to update, modify, or remove existing records electronically no less often than quarterly as required by the NIAA, such agency will not be required to submit further annual reports. Instead, the agency will be required to submit an annual certification to DOJ, attesting that the agency continues to submit relevant records and has corrected, modified, or removed appropriate records.
Sec. 3. NICS Consultation and Coordination Working Group. To ensure adequate agency input in the guidance required by section 1(a) of this memorandum, subsequent decisions about whether an agency possesses relevant records, and determinations concerning whether relevant records should be provided to the NICS, there is established a NICS Consultation and Coordination Working Group (Working Group), to be chaired by the Attorney General or his designee.
(a) Membership. In addition to the Chair, the Working Group shall consist of representatives of the following agencies:
(i) the Department of Defense;
(ii) the Department of Health and Human Services;
(iii) the Department of Transportation;
(iv) the Department of Veterans Affairs;
(v) the Department of Homeland Security;
(vi) the Social Security Administration;
(vii) the Office of Personnel Management;
(viii) the Office of Management and Budget; and
(ix) such other agencies or offices as the Chair may designate.
(b) Functions. The Working Group shall convene regularly and as needed to allow for consultation and coordination between DOJ and agencies affected by the Attorney General's implementation of the NIAA, including with respect to the guidance required by section 1(a) of this memorandum, subsequent decisions about whether an agency possesses relevant records, and determinations concerning whether relevant records should be provided to the NICS. The Working Group may also consider, as appropriate:
(i) developing means and methods for identifying agency records deemed relevant by DOJ's guidance;
(ii) addressing obstacles faced by agencies in making their relevant records available to the NICS;
(iii) implementing notice and relief from disabilities programs; and
(iv) ensuring means to correct, modify, or remove records when the basis under which the record was made available no longer applies.
(c) Reporting. The Working Group will review the annual reports required by section 2(a) of this memorandum, and member agencies may append to the reports any material they deem appropriate, including an identification of any agency best practices that may be of assistance to States in supplying records to the NICS.
Sec. 4. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this memorandum shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:
(i) the authority granted by law to a department or agency, or the head thereof; or
(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.
(b) This memorandum shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.
(c) This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
(d) Independent agencies are strongly encouraged to comply with the requirements of this memorandum.
Sec. 5. Publication. The Attorney General is hereby authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.
BARACK OBAMA


Presidential Memorandum -- Tracing of Firearms in Connection with Criminal Investigations

January 16, 2013
*
*
MEMORANDUM FOR THE HEADS OF EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES
*
SUBJECT: Tracing of Firearms in Connection with Criminal Investigations
*
*
Reducing violent crime, and gun-related crime in particular, is a top priority of my Administration. A key component of this effort is ensuring that law enforcement agencies at all levels -- Federal, State, and local -- utilize those tools that have proven most effective. One such tool is firearms tracing, which significantly assists law enforcement in reconstructing the transfer and movement of seized or recovered firearms. Responsibility for conducting firearms tracing rests with the Department of Justice's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). Over the years, firearms tracing has significantly assisted law enforcement in solving violent crimes and generating thousands of leads that may otherwise not have been available.
*
Firearms tracing provides two principal benefits. First, tracing is an important investigative tool in individual cases, providing law enforcement agents with critical information that may lead to the apprehension of suspects, the recovery of other guns used in the commission of crimes, and the identification of potential witnesses, among other things. Second, analysis of tracing data in the aggregate provides valuable intelligence about local, regional, and national patterns relating to the movement and sources of guns used in the commission of crimes, which is useful for the effective deployment of law enforcement resources and development of enforcement strategies. Firearms tracing is a particularly valuable tool in detecting and investigating firearms trafficking, and has been deployed to help combat the pernicious problem of firearms trafficking across the Southwest border.
*
The effectiveness of firearms tracing as a law enforcement intelligence tool depends on the quantity and quality of information and trace requests submitted to ATF. In fiscal year 2012, ATF processed approximately 345,000 crime-gun trace requests for thousands of domestic and international law enforcement agencies. The Federal Government can encourage State and local law enforcement agencies to take advantage of the benefits of tracing all recovered firearms, but Federal law enforcement agencies should have an obligation to do so. If Federal law enforcement agencies do not conscientiously trace every firearm taken into custody, they may not only be depriving themselves of critical information in specific cases, but may also be depriving all Federal, State, and local agencies of the value of complete information for aggregate analyses. *
*
Maximizing the effectiveness of firearms tracing, and the corresponding impact on combating violent crimes involving firearms, requires that Federal law enforcement agencies trace all recovered firearms taken into Federal custody in a timely and efficient manner.
*
Therefore, by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following:
*
Section 1. Firearms Tracing. (a) Federal law enforcement agencies shall ensure that all firearms recovered after the date of this memorandum in the course of criminal investigations and taken into Federal custody are traced through ATF at the earliest time practicable. Federal law enforcement agencies, as well as other executive departments and agencies, are encouraged, to the extent practicable, to take steps to ensure that firearms recovered prior to the date of this memorandum in the course of criminal investigations and taken into Federal custody are traced through ATF.
*
(b) Within 30 days of the date of this memorandum, ATF will issue guidance to Federal law enforcement agencies on submitting firearms trace requests.
*
(c) Within 60 days of the date of this memorandum, Federal law enforcement agencies shall ensure that their operational protocols reflect the requirement to trace recovered firearms through ATF.
*
(d) Within 90 days of the date of this memorandum, each Federal law enforcement agency shall submit a report to the Attorney General affirming that its operational protocols reflect the requirements set forth in this memorandum.
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(e) For purposes of this memorandum, "Federal law enforcement agencies" means the Departments of State, the Treasury, Defense, Justice, the Interior, Agriculture, Energy, Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security, and such other agencies and offices that regularly recover firearms in the course of their criminal investigations as the President may designate.
*
Sec. 2. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this memorandum shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect the authority granted by law to a department or agency, or the head thereof.
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(b) This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
*
Sec. 3. Publication. The Attorney General is authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.
*
BARACK OBAMA

Presidential Memoranda | The White House

my gawd you are obsessed with Obama

 

[Skull Pilot]

If someone shoots 5 people, why are the other 10 just going to stand there and let him reload?

Probably.

But as I said one can buy a 10, 20, or 30 round mag for either rifle.

I can tape two 10 round mags together and still fire 20 rounds almost as fast as one person can empty one 20 round mag.

I know the old tape trick, I'm a Vietnam Era Marine Corps Veteran. Why do you people act like you are the only ones who know about guns? Are you a bunch of children?

Why are you against limiting magazine size?

Why do you people think that the size of a magazine is anything but a red herring.

You just admitted that there are very effective ways of firing just as many rounds in almost the same amount if time with smaller mags so really what is the reason for limiting the size of the mag?

BTW I don't own even one 30 round mag for any of my rifles because I know I can get off as many shots as I want with my 10 and 15 round mags.

 

[RDD_1210]

I don't need a solution because there is none.

People will kill each other with or without guns. People will commit suicide with or without guns.

If you're talking about Sandy Hook, then you have to realize that that tragedy could have been prevented by 2 sets of steel doors more effectively than any gun ban could have.

Criminals will always prey on society and each other so until you tell me how to eliminate all crime the only common sense solution is to allow people to protect themselves with any weapon they feel comfortable using.

So to summarize

You're selfish and lazy. Got it.

i would think you would approve of selfish and lazy...... its the poster child of entitlements and the American liberal way remember?

Is it? That's news to me. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Rambos don't like the top one...

Dems don't like to be reminded that the top one is capable of the same damage as the bottom one...

You might be limited to 5 rounds on that hunting rifle, but you can buy a 30 round magazine for the bottom one. Which weapon could go into a room of 15 people and kill them all?

Either.

 

[RDD_1210]

I don't need a solution because there is none.

People will kill each other with or without guns. People will commit suicide with or without guns.

If you're talking about Sandy Hook, then you have to realize that that tragedy could have been prevented by 2 sets of steel doors more effectively than any gun ban could have.

Criminals will always prey on society and each other so until you tell me how to eliminate all crime the only common sense solution is to allow people to protect themselves with any weapon they feel comfortable using.

So to summarize

You're selfish and lazy. Got it.

Yeah I'm selfish because i don't like the idea of an armed criminal breaking into my house killing my dog raping my wife and burning my house down.

What does that make a person who wants to deny me the right to protect my wife from that type of violence?

What type of person is Ok with kids being shot in the face at school.

When you don't even attempt to come up with a solution to this happening you're basically saying that you just accept that as collateral damage for your "freedom".

Like I said selfish and lazy

 

[Skull Pilot]

So to summarize

You're selfish and lazy. Got it.

Yeah I'm selfish because i don't like the idea of an armed criminal breaking into my house killing my dog raping my wife and burning my house down.

What does that make a person who wants to deny me the right to protect my wife from that type of violence?

What type of person is Ok with kids being shot in the face at school.

When you don't even attempt to come up with a solution to this happening you're basically saying that you just accept that as collateral damage for your "freedom".

Like I said selfish and lazy

Where did I say I was OK with that?

I also said that Sandy Hook could have been prevented by double set of steel doors more effectively than with a gun ban but you can't seem to understand that can you?

Another thing you don't seem to understand is that my owning weapons had absofuckinglutely nothing to do with any school shooting.

 

[squeeze berry]

If someone shoots 5 people, why are the other 10 just going to stand there and let him reload?

Probably.

But as I said one can buy a 10, 20, or 30 round mag for either rifle.

I can tape two 10 round mags together and still fire 20 rounds almost as fast as one person can empty one 20 round mag.

I know the old tape trick, I'm a Vietnam Era Marine Corps Veteran. Why do you people act like you are the only ones who know about guns? Are you a bunch of children?

Why are you against limiting magazine size?

one issue I have is that the anti-gun zealots are going after semi-autos.

Not just " evil looking " assault rifles, but also Ruger 10/22s and Marlin lever action 22s.


No guns with capacity of more than 7 rounds in NY,

Hell, my Browning buckmark camper has a mag capacity of 10 rounds.

Do you see the ultimate stupidity and senselessness of this?

There are those screaming from soap boxes that have zero experience with firearms much less any common sense.

 

[squeeze berry]

So to summarize

You're selfish and lazy. Got it.

Yeah I'm selfish because i don't like the idea of an armed criminal breaking into my house killing my dog raping my wife and burning my house down.

What does that make a person who wants to deny me the right to protect my wife from that type of violence?

What type of person is Ok with kids being shot in the face at school.

When you don't even attempt to come up with a solution to this happening you're basically saying that you just accept that as collateral damage for your "freedom".

Like I said selfish and lazy

project much?

 

[Dubya]

Probably.

But as I said one can buy a 10, 20, or 30 round mag for either rifle.

I can tape two 10 round mags together and still fire 20 rounds almost as fast as one person can empty one 20 round mag.

I know the old tape trick, I'm a Vietnam Era Marine Corps Veteran. Why do you people act like you are the only ones who know about guns? Are you a bunch of children?

Why are you against limiting magazine size?

Why do you people think that the size of a magazine is anything but a red herring.

You just admitted that there are very effective ways of firing just as many rounds in almost the same amount if time with smaller mags so really what is the reason for limiting the size of the mag?

BTW I don't own even one 30 round mag for any of my rifles because I know I can get off as many shots as I want with my 10 and 15 round mags.

I'm not impressed by someone misusing the term red herring.

It's just common sense to limit magazine size and I'd limit it to five rounds, like they do in hunting in some states.

You want to argue that limiting magazine size has no effect in a shootout or mass murder situation and that just doesn't make sense to any rational person. The fact is you are irrational and you don't have the sense to realize that when society has to deal with a group of irrational people, we are going to make laws harder on them than we would if they acting like rational people.

You are your own worse enemy. You don't have the numbers to win this battle and you're going to lose either way. We're not going to make laws based on what the kooks want.

 

[OODA_Loop]

The fact is you are irrational and you don't have the sense to realize that when society has to deal with a group of irrational people, we are going to make laws harder on them than we would if they acting like rational people.

You are your own worse enemy. You don't have the numbers to win this battle and you're going to lose either way. We're not going to make laws based on what the kooks want.

You dont' have the votes.

 

[squeeze berry]

I know the old tape trick, I'm a Vietnam Era Marine Corps Veteran. Why do you people act like you are the only ones who know about guns? Are you a bunch of children?

Why are you against limiting magazine size?

Why do you people think that the size of a magazine is anything but a red herring.

You just admitted that there are very effective ways of firing just as many rounds in almost the same amount if time with smaller mags so really what is the reason for limiting the size of the mag?

BTW I don't own even one 30 round mag for any of my rifles because I know I can get off as many shots as I want with my 10 and 15 round mags.

I'm not impressed by someone misusing the term red herring.

It's just common sense to limit magazine size and I'd limit it to five rounds, like they do in hunting in some states.

You want to argue that limiting magazine size has no effect in a shootout or mass murder situation and that just doesn't make sense to any rational person. The fact is you are irrational and you don't have the sense to realize that when society has to deal with a group of irrational people, we are going to make laws harder on them than we would if they acting like rational people.

You are your own worse enemy. You don't have the numbers to win this battle and you're going to lose either way. We're not going to make laws based on what the kooks want.

limiting to 5 rounds would make practically every gun in the country illegal.

this includes black powder revolvers.

come back with some common sense

 

[Skull Pilot]

I know the old tape trick, I'm a Vietnam Era Marine Corps Veteran. Why do you people act like you are the only ones who know about guns? Are you a bunch of children?

Why are you against limiting magazine size?

Why do you people think that the size of a magazine is anything but a red herring.

You just admitted that there are very effective ways of firing just as many rounds in almost the same amount if time with smaller mags so really what is the reason for limiting the size of the mag?

BTW I don't own even one 30 round mag for any of my rifles because I know I can get off as many shots as I want with my 10 and 15 round mags.

I'm not impressed by someone misusing the term red herring.

It's just common sense to limit magazine size and I'd limit it to five rounds, like they do in hunting in some states.

You want to argue that limiting magazine size has no effect in a shootout or mass murder situation and that just doesn't make sense to any rational person. The fact is you are irrational and you don't have the sense to realize that when society has to deal with a group of irrational people, we are going to make laws harder on them than we would if they acting like rational people.

You are your own worse enemy. You don't have the numbers to win this battle and you're going to lose either way. We're not going to make laws based on what the kooks want.

Red Herring:A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue

Saying that magazine size is the deciding factor of a gun's lethality is a red herring.

And How am I irrational when you yourself realize that 2 10 round mags are just as effective as one 20 round mag.

Magazine size is not and has not ever been the issue here. So called "assault weapons" are not and have never been the issue here since there is no functional difference between a so called assault rifle and any other semiauto rifle other than cosmetics.

So tell me what do you really want?