College tuition inflation.

[Conservative65]

Oh, I think I see what you're getting at. When you talk about 'cost', you're not talking about the real expense of education, but the costs that students pay, yeah?

The cost of tuition increased because the funding to higher ed decreased. Fact.

There is no bullshitting around this. What you are desperately searching for is a way not to return to funding higher ed.

What I'm looking for is a logical explanation of why taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for college for another person's kid.

The same way of thinking could be applied to many other aspects of government:
Why should taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for the police force from another's person bad neighborhood/city.
Granted, the State has the monopoly of force, so the police activity is part of the definition of what a state does. But the other answer is that as a whole the society works better if certain measures are taken to ensure it works properly. More engineers could provide a competitive advantage over other nations.

If you look at this chart you will see that public tuitions per year are abuot 1/3 of the cost of tuition in private institutions. Does that mean that if all college education was public the cost would by reduced by 66% for every american citizen?
Or would it spiral out of control without the balance of private institutions?
Would this increase the control the government has over citizens ... and lead to a socialist regime?

I don't think there is an easy answer, but it is worth exploring all the posibilities .
Tuition prices are spiraling. How do you suggest they are controlled?

Get the government out of the student loan business.

Ok , that could work : by reducing the amount of money that goes into the system, demand would fall , and less expensive alternatives could appear.

There are americans working on making education available for free for every human being.

Khan Academy
Crash Course Subbable

This is just a tiny step towards making college education available for everyone within the bounds of a free market. But my bet is that we will be seeing more of these in the future.

Of course the video tutorials and exercises still have to be complemented by interaction with other students and counceling from teachers, but I like the core idea : You can learn anything you want if you have the will to do it... no taxpayer money is involved.

What those Americans working on making it free for everyone don't realize that nothing is free. When they say free, they mean one person getting it by taxpayers funding it.

 

[Disir]

The states. But, the reason that we won't return to funding it is the free market rodeo clowns and the movement to privatize all public education.

 

[CultureCitizen]

The cost of tuition increased because the funding to higher ed decreased. Fact.

There is no bullshitting around this. What you are desperately searching for is a way not to return to funding higher ed.

What I'm looking for is a logical explanation of why taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for college for another person's kid.

The same way of thinking could be applied to many other aspects of government:
Why should taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for the police force from another's person bad neighborhood/city.
Granted, the State has the monopoly of force, so the police activity is part of the definition of what a state does. But the other answer is that as a whole the society works better if certain measures are taken to ensure it works properly. More engineers could provide a competitive advantage over other nations.

If you look at this chart you will see that public tuitions per year are abuot 1/3 of the cost of tuition in private institutions. Does that mean that if all college education was public the cost would by reduced by 66% for every american citizen?
Or would it spiral out of control without the balance of private institutions?
Would this increase the control the government has over citizens ... and lead to a socialist regime?

I don't think there is an easy answer, but it is worth exploring all the posibilities .
Tuition prices are spiraling. How do you suggest they are controlled?

Get the government out of the student loan business.

Ok , that could work : by reducing the amount of money that goes into the system, demand would fall , and less expensive alternatives could appear.

There are americans working on making education available for free for every human being.

Khan Academy
Crash Course Subbable

This is just a tiny step towards making college education available for everyone within the bounds of a free market. But my bet is that we will be seeing more of these in the future.

Of course the video tutorials and exercises still have to be complemented by interaction with other students and counceling from teachers, but I like the core idea : You can learn anything you want if you have the will to do it... no taxpayer money is involved.

What those Americans working on making it free for everyone don't realize that nothing is free. When they say free, they mean one person getting it by taxpayers funding it.

No , it is free. They receive donations from a worldwide comunity. Anyone with internet access can beneffit from this idea.

Regarding private education . Would you agree on regulating the amount colleges can charge?

 

[Conservative65]

What I'm looking for is a logical explanation of why taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for college for another person's kid.

The same way of thinking could be applied to many other aspects of government:
Why should taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for the police force from another's person bad neighborhood/city.
Granted, the State has the monopoly of force, so the police activity is part of the definition of what a state does. But the other answer is that as a whole the society works better if certain measures are taken to ensure it works properly. More engineers could provide a competitive advantage over other nations.

If you look at this chart you will see that public tuitions per year are abuot 1/3 of the cost of tuition in private institutions. Does that mean that if all college education was public the cost would by reduced by 66% for every american citizen?
Or would it spiral out of control without the balance of private institutions?
Would this increase the control the government has over citizens ... and lead to a socialist regime?

I don't think there is an easy answer, but it is worth exploring all the posibilities .
Tuition prices are spiraling. How do you suggest they are controlled?

Get the government out of the student loan business.

Ok , that could work : by reducing the amount of money that goes into the system, demand would fall , and less expensive alternatives could appear.

There are americans working on making education available for free for every human being.

Khan Academy
Crash Course Subbable

This is just a tiny step towards making college education available for everyone within the bounds of a free market. But my bet is that we will be seeing more of these in the future.

Of course the video tutorials and exercises still have to be complemented by interaction with other students and counceling from teachers, but I like the core idea : You can learn anything you want if you have the will to do it... no taxpayer money is involved.

What those Americans working on making it free for everyone don't realize that nothing is free. When they say free, they mean one person getting it by taxpayers funding it.

No , it is free. They receive donations from a worldwide comunity. Anyone with internet access can beneffit from this idea.

Regarding private education . Would you agree on regulating the amount colleges can charge?

If you're talking about the Khan Academy and it's funding is through donations, I agree it's free. I was talking about those working on making it "free" by having it funded by taxes.

No. A private college that receives no government funding whatsoever shouldn't be regulated on what they can charge. If it's private, it's their private choice.

 

[CultureCitizen]

The same way of thinking could be applied to many other aspects of government:
Why should taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for the police force from another's person bad neighborhood/city.
Granted, the State has the monopoly of force, so the police activity is part of the definition of what a state does. But the other answer is that as a whole the society works better if certain measures are taken to ensure it works properly. More engineers could provide a competitive advantage over other nations.

If you look at this chart you will see that public tuitions per year are abuot 1/3 of the cost of tuition in private institutions. Does that mean that if all college education was public the cost would by reduced by 66% for every american citizen?
Or would it spiral out of control without the balance of private institutions?
Would this increase the control the government has over citizens ... and lead to a socialist regime?

I don't think there is an easy answer, but it is worth exploring all the posibilities .
Tuition prices are spiraling. How do you suggest they are controlled?

Get the government out of the student loan business.

Ok , that could work : by reducing the amount of money that goes into the system, demand would fall , and less expensive alternatives could appear.

There are americans working on making education available for free for every human being.

Khan Academy
Crash Course Subbable

This is just a tiny step towards making college education available for everyone within the bounds of a free market. But my bet is that we will be seeing more of these in the future.

Of course the video tutorials and exercises still have to be complemented by interaction with other students and counceling from teachers, but I like the core idea : You can learn anything you want if you have the will to do it... no taxpayer money is involved.

What those Americans working on making it free for everyone don't realize that nothing is free. When they say free, they mean one person getting it by taxpayers funding it.

No , it is free. They receive donations from a worldwide comunity. Anyone with internet access can beneffit from this idea.

Regarding private education . Would you agree on regulating the amount colleges can charge?

If you're talking about the Khan Academy and it's funding is through donations, I agree it's free. I was talking about those working on making it "free" by having it funded by taxes.

No. A private college that receives no government funding whatsoever shouldn't be regulated on what they can charge. If it's private, it's their private choice.

Harsh as it may seem I understand the fact that eliminating government sponsored student loans can stop the price spiral. The current situation is similar to the interaction between hospitals and ( insurance companies + medicare ).

Still with the current prices , some students may choose to study overseas. This is a valid market response and an unfortunate situation for the USA. Do you see scholarships for talented students as a valid option in this case ?

 

[Conservative65]

Get the government out of the student loan business.

Ok , that could work : by reducing the amount of money that goes into the system, demand would fall , and less expensive alternatives could appear.

There are americans working on making education available for free for every human being.

Khan Academy
Crash Course Subbable

This is just a tiny step towards making college education available for everyone within the bounds of a free market. But my bet is that we will be seeing more of these in the future.

Of course the video tutorials and exercises still have to be complemented by interaction with other students and counceling from teachers, but I like the core idea : You can learn anything you want if you have the will to do it... no taxpayer money is involved.

What those Americans working on making it free for everyone don't realize that nothing is free. When they say free, they mean one person getting it by taxpayers funding it.

No , it is free. They receive donations from a worldwide comunity. Anyone with internet access can beneffit from this idea.

Regarding private education . Would you agree on regulating the amount colleges can charge?

If you're talking about the Khan Academy and it's funding is through donations, I agree it's free. I was talking about those working on making it "free" by having it funded by taxes.

No. A private college that receives no government funding whatsoever shouldn't be regulated on what they can charge. If it's private, it's their private choice.

Harsh as it may seem I understand the fact that eliminating government sponsored student loans can stop the price spiral. The current situation is similar to the interaction between hospitals and ( insurance companies + medicare ).

Still with the current prices , some students may choose to study overseas. This is a valid market response and an unfortunate situation for the USA. Do you see scholarships for talented students as a valid option in this case ?

I have no problem with scholarships for talented students. In fact, my entire college education, all three degrees, involved a total out of pocket expense of less than $2500. My entire undergraduate costs was funded by academic and athletic scholarships to a university that, in the mid 1980s, costs somewhere around $25,000/year for all expenses. I did a graduate degree immediately following and is where the biggest part of that $2500 came from. My third degree, also graduate degree, was funded by various sorts of programs including employer tuition reimbursement.

My daughter starts college next year at a private university that costs approximately $32,000/year plus books. As it currently stands, roughly $25,000 of that is funded through scholarships and we're waiting to hear back from one that will just about pay for the rest.

 

[JFK_USA]

Fun filled fact: the cost of tuition increased because the funding to higher ed decreased.

Oh, I think I see what you're getting at. When you talk about 'cost', you're not talking about the real expense of education, but the costs that students pay, yeah?

The cost of tuition increased because the funding to higher ed decreased. Fact.

There is no bullshitting around this. What you are desperately searching for is a way not to return to funding higher ed.

What I'm looking for is a logical explanation of why taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for college for another person's kid.

The same way of thinking could be applied to many other aspects of government:
Why should taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for the police force from another's person bad neighborhood/city.
Granted, the State has the monopoly of force, so the police activity is part of the definition of what a state does. But the other answer is that as a whole the society works better if certain measures are taken to ensure it works properly. More engineers could provide a competitive advantage over other nations.

If you look at this chart you will see that public tuitions per year are abuot 1/3 of the cost of tuition in private institutions. Does that mean that if all college education was public the cost would by reduced by 66% for every american citizen?
Or would it spiral out of control without the balance of private institutions?
Would this increase the control the government has over citizens ... and lead to a socialist regime?

I don't think there is an easy answer, but it is worth exploring all the posibilities .
Tuition prices are spiraling. How do you suggest they are controlled?

Get the government out of the student loan business.

Yeah because private companies would be as forgiving.

Out of the creditors I have, student loans servers have been the easiest to work with. Payment plans that only take a certain percentage of my actual income instead of an arbitrary amount set by the creditor on whatever they want. After a certain amount of years, it will be completely waived with no credit report penalty.

Look, the student loans in this country are a problem. I wouldn't say the government is the entire problem. The government's policy to give loan money to every institution under the sun no matter what without accountability of results is part of it but the government providing student loans so kids from less fortunate families can go to college is not the problem.

 

[Conservative65]

Oh, I think I see what you're getting at. When you talk about 'cost', you're not talking about the real expense of education, but the costs that students pay, yeah?

The cost of tuition increased because the funding to higher ed decreased. Fact.

There is no bullshitting around this. What you are desperately searching for is a way not to return to funding higher ed.

What I'm looking for is a logical explanation of why taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for college for another person's kid.

The same way of thinking could be applied to many other aspects of government:
Why should taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for the police force from another's person bad neighborhood/city.
Granted, the State has the monopoly of force, so the police activity is part of the definition of what a state does. But the other answer is that as a whole the society works better if certain measures are taken to ensure it works properly. More engineers could provide a competitive advantage over other nations.

If you look at this chart you will see that public tuitions per year are abuot 1/3 of the cost of tuition in private institutions. Does that mean that if all college education was public the cost would by reduced by 66% for every american citizen?
Or would it spiral out of control without the balance of private institutions?
Would this increase the control the government has over citizens ... and lead to a socialist regime?

I don't think there is an easy answer, but it is worth exploring all the posibilities .
Tuition prices are spiraling. How do you suggest they are controlled?

Get the government out of the student loan business.

Yeah because private companies would be as forgiving.

Out of the creditors I have, student loans servers have been the easiest to work with. Payment plans that only take a certain percentage of my actual income instead of an arbitrary amount set by the creditor on whatever they want. After a certain amount of years, it will be completely waived with no credit report penalty.

Look, the student loans in this country are a problem. I wouldn't say the government is the entire problem. The government's policy to give loan money to every institution under the sun no matter what without accountability of results is part of it but the government providing student loans so kids from less fortunate families can go to college is not the problem.

Why should someone that loaned money that another person agreed to pay back just let the person not pay it back? When the government does it, they do it with money that isn't theirs.

So you're one of those that thinks if you meet part of YOUR responsibility living up to all of it doesn't matter? I've had plenty of loans in my life. Not once has a payment amount been arbitrary.

There isn't a student loan problem. The loan was made in good faith under a contract with the student. The problem is with those taking the loans not wanting to live up to their side of the contract.

If you want a less fortunate kid to go to college, pay his/her tuition personally. If the government is involved, it is costing taxpayers and it isn't taxpayer responsibility to pay for anyone's college.

 

[Disir]

Yes! Let's keep college in the hands of the elite!

Businesses file for bankruptcy. Home owners file for bankruptcy.

I love this game.

It's called the let's ship white collar and blue collar jobs over seas or outsource all jobs. Let's destroy all of the career options and lets remove all parts of social mobility. Let's draw charts and graphs and kick out the responsibility meme.

Social contract.

 

[Conservative65]

Yes! Let's keep college in the hands of the elite!

Businesses file for bankruptcy. Home owners file for bankruptcy.

I love this game.

It's called the let's ship white collar and blue collar jobs over seas or outsource all jobs. Let's destroy all of the career options and lets remove all parts of social mobility. Let's draw charts and graphs and kick out the responsibility meme.

Social contract.

The difference is those who walk away from student loans think it shouldn't go against their record. Businesses that file bankruptcy are subject to all sort of conditions. Those that default on student loans want all to be forgiven.

Let's not kick out the concept of responsibility. If you take out a loan, pay it back. If you don't, suffer the consequences.

The social contract doesn't mean people can agree to live up to their side of things then when they don't, someone else be forced to do it for them. I don't owe you or anyone else shit.

 

[Disir]

Yes! Let's keep college in the hands of the elite!

Businesses file for bankruptcy. Home owners file for bankruptcy.

I love this game.

It's called the let's ship white collar and blue collar jobs over seas or outsource all jobs. Let's destroy all of the career options and lets remove all parts of social mobility. Let's draw charts and graphs and kick out the responsibility meme.

Social contract.

The difference is those who walk away from student loans think it shouldn't go against their record. Businesses that file bankruptcy are subject to all sort of conditions. Those that default on student loans want all to be forgiven.

Let's not kick out the concept of responsibility. If you take out a loan, pay it back. If you don't, suffer the consequences.

The social contract doesn't mean people can agree to live up to their side of things then when they don't, someone else be forced to do it for them. I don't owe you or anyone else shit.

Businesses are but not the individuals running the businesses. Clever that.

Let's not kick out the concept of responsibility.

It was your responsibility to make sure that the myth of the STEM shortage was busted. It was your responsibility to make sure that R & D stayed in house. It was your responsibility to make sure that the higher paying jobs were not outsourced. It was your responsibility to stand up to people like Bill Gates and the increase of H1B visas. Hell, it was your responsibility to make comparisons between economic disasters brought about by the free market in other countries before shoving the shit down the throats of the US. No?

Students that default on loans often suffer from anxiety. They want to pay their loans and can't. It is a source of shame.

WTF is your responsibility? You don't have any.

The reality is that it is far easier to annihilate those holding the least amount of power rather than face those that hold the most.

 

[dblack]

Yes! Let's keep college in the hands of the elite.

The economic elite? Or the political elite? Have you ever noticed that they're the same people?

 

[Disir]

Yep.

Just like those billionaire Libertopians.

 

[dblack]

Yep.

Just like those billionaire Libertopians.

Not many of those. Most billionaires have too much to gain from government to endorse libertarian values.

 

[Disir]

That's almost funny.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Yes! Let's keep college in the hands of the elite!

Businesses file for bankruptcy. Home owners file for bankruptcy.

I love this game.

It's called the let's ship white collar and blue collar jobs over seas or outsource all jobs. Let's destroy all of the career options and lets remove all parts of social mobility. Let's draw charts and graphs and kick out the responsibility meme.

Social contract.

The difference is those who walk away from student loans think it shouldn't go against their record. Businesses that file bankruptcy are subject to all sort of conditions. Those that default on student loans want all to be forgiven.

Let's not kick out the concept of responsibility. If you take out a loan, pay it back. If you don't, suffer the consequences.

The social contract doesn't mean people can agree to live up to their side of things then when they don't, someone else be forced to do it for them. I don't owe you or anyone else shit.

I agree government sponsored student loans might be causing inflation.
Nevertheless , I support the creation of public universities and scolarships for talented students ( there must be an option to keep local talent ).
Thomas Jefferson was extremly proud of being the father of the University of Virginia.
For some reason he decided to create a public university and not a private one.

 

[dblack]

That's almost funny.

How so?

 

[Disir]

That's almost funny.

How so?

No true Scotsman.

 

[JFK_USA]

The cost of tuition increased because the funding to higher ed decreased. Fact.

There is no bullshitting around this. What you are desperately searching for is a way not to return to funding higher ed.

What I'm looking for is a logical explanation of why taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for college for another person's kid.

The same way of thinking could be applied to many other aspects of government:
Why should taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for the police force from another's person bad neighborhood/city.
Granted, the State has the monopoly of force, so the police activity is part of the definition of what a state does. But the other answer is that as a whole the society works better if certain measures are taken to ensure it works properly. More engineers could provide a competitive advantage over other nations.

If you look at this chart you will see that public tuitions per year are abuot 1/3 of the cost of tuition in private institutions. Does that mean that if all college education was public the cost would by reduced by 66% for every american citizen?
Or would it spiral out of control without the balance of private institutions?
Would this increase the control the government has over citizens ... and lead to a socialist regime?

I don't think there is an easy answer, but it is worth exploring all the posibilities .
Tuition prices are spiraling. How do you suggest they are controlled?

Get the government out of the student loan business.

Yeah because private companies would be as forgiving.

Out of the creditors I have, student loans servers have been the easiest to work with. Payment plans that only take a certain percentage of my actual income instead of an arbitrary amount set by the creditor on whatever they want. After a certain amount of years, it will be completely waived with no credit report penalty.

Look, the student loans in this country are a problem. I wouldn't say the government is the entire problem. The government's policy to give loan money to every institution under the sun no matter what without accountability of results is part of it but the government providing student loans so kids from less fortunate families can go to college is not the problem.

Why should someone that loaned money that another person agreed to pay back just let the person not pay it back? When the government does it, they do it with money that isn't theirs.

So you're one of those that thinks if you meet part of YOUR responsibility living up to all of it doesn't matter? I've had plenty of loans in my life. Not once has a payment amount been arbitrary.

There isn't a student loan problem. The loan was made in good faith under a contract with the student. The problem is with those taking the loans not wanting to live up to their side of the contract.

If you want a less fortunate kid to go to college, pay his/her tuition personally. If the government is involved, it is costing taxpayers and it isn't taxpayer responsibility to pay for anyone's college.

Then tell me how are young people going to get skills to get a job? Unions are gone thanks to you and businesses don't want to pay for the training. A high school diploma gets you nowhere without additional training.

So a person who is a very intelligent person who is poor is just screwed right? You know scholarships are down too right and many do not cover the full expenses of going to school. But who cares right? They're poor, I mean what do they think this is, the land of opportunity?

 

[CultureCitizen]

What I'm looking for is a logical explanation of why taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for college for another person's kid.

The same way of thinking could be applied to many other aspects of government:
Why should taxpayer money forced from one person should be used to pay for the police force from another's person bad neighborhood/city.
Granted, the State has the monopoly of force, so the police activity is part of the definition of what a state does. But the other answer is that as a whole the society works better if certain measures are taken to ensure it works properly. More engineers could provide a competitive advantage over other nations.

If you look at this chart you will see that public tuitions per year are abuot 1/3 of the cost of tuition in private institutions. Does that mean that if all college education was public the cost would by reduced by 66% for every american citizen?
Or would it spiral out of control without the balance of private institutions?
Would this increase the control the government has over citizens ... and lead to a socialist regime?

I don't think there is an easy answer, but it is worth exploring all the posibilities .
Tuition prices are spiraling. How do you suggest they are controlled?

Get the government out of the student loan business.

Yeah because private companies would be as forgiving.

Out of the creditors I have, student loans servers have been the easiest to work with. Payment plans that only take a certain percentage of my actual income instead of an arbitrary amount set by the creditor on whatever they want. After a certain amount of years, it will be completely waived with no credit report penalty.

Look, the student loans in this country are a problem. I wouldn't say the government is the entire problem. The government's policy to give loan money to every institution under the sun no matter what without accountability of results is part of it but the government providing student loans so kids from less fortunate families can go to college is not the problem.

Why should someone that loaned money that another person agreed to pay back just let the person not pay it back? When the government does it, they do it with money that isn't theirs.

So you're one of those that thinks if you meet part of YOUR responsibility living up to all of it doesn't matter? I've had plenty of loans in my life. Not once has a payment amount been arbitrary.

There isn't a student loan problem. The loan was made in good faith under a contract with the student. The problem is with those taking the loans not wanting to live up to their side of the contract.

If you want a less fortunate kid to go to college, pay his/her tuition personally. If the government is involved, it is costing taxpayers and it isn't taxpayer responsibility to pay for anyone's college.

Then tell me how are young people going to get skills to get a job? Unions are gone thanks to you and businesses don't want to pay for the training. A high school diploma gets you nowhere without additional training.

So a person who is a very intelligent person who is poor is just screwed right? You know scholarships are down too right and many do not cover the full expenses of going to school. But who cares right? They're poor, I mean what do they think this is, the land of opportunity?

Though Conservative and I have different points of view, I agree with him in the fact that government loans are not the correct way, because they are part of the inflationary process.

Public colleges have been a part of the USA since its inception and should continue to be so. Also students who maintain high grades should be granted a scolarships.