Citizenship-By-Birth Faces Challenges

[Cecilie1200]

And just how are we going to convince millions of illegals to leave? They are going to leave because they might get caught and prosecuted? That would mean jury trials, defense attorneys, and all the associated legal ramblings. And of course, you are going have get a jury to send Jose to jail even though he has lived here all of his life and claims he never knowingly violated the law because his parent brought him here as a child. No, putting them in jail is not going to work. If they have committed crimes other than entering the country illegally, prosecute them for the crimes, send them to jail and then deport them. The best idea is to penalize the people who hire illegals. That is going to be one of the controversial parts of the bill.

We aren't going to convince them of anything. We should make coming here LESS attractive. ZERO help of any kind. No medical. No education. No jobs. No anchor babies.

As to crime these so called law abiding illegals commit who said anything about prison or trial? Just prove you are a citizen and your on your way. Otherwise your on the next flight out.

Denying jobs is the key. Subsidized healthcare is available in Mexico so I don’t see that as a big attraction. As far as welfare is concerned:
"MYTH #3: The nation spends billions of dollars on welfare for undocumented immigrants.
FACTS: To the contrary, undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive any "welfare" benefits and even legal immigrants are severely restricted in the benefits they can receive.
As the Congressional Research Service points out in a 2007 report, undocumented immigrants, who comprise nearly one-third of all immigrants in the country, are not eligible to receive public "welfare" benefits -- ever."
Illegal immigrants on welfare: fact or fiction? | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

If state agencies dole out welfare funds to illegal immigrants, then that’s the states problem.[/QUOTE]

Healthcare is a BIG attraction. Do you really think healthcare in Mexico for anyone who isn't filthy rich is even remotely comparable to American healthcare?

As for "not eligible to receive welfare benefits", there's always the "benefit" of wandering into an ER, getting care, and then disappearing into the sunset, never to be heard from or billed again.

Furthermore, the Center for Immigration Studies has found that illegals cost us $2.5 billion in Medicaid, $2.2 billion for treatment for the uninsured, and $1.9 billion for food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches. How do you suppose they're managing to do that?

 

[Againsheila]

And just how are we going to convince millions of illegals to leave? They are going to leave because they might get caught and prosecuted? That would mean jury trials, defense attorneys, and all the associated legal ramblings. And of course, you are going have get a jury to send Jose to jail even though he has lived here all of his life and claims he never knowingly violated the law because his parent brought him here as a child. No, putting them in jail is not going to work. If they have committed crimes other than entering the country illegally, prosecute them for the crimes, send them to jail and then deport them. The best idea is to penalize the people who hire illegals. That is going to be one of the controversial parts of the bill.

We aren't going to convince them of anything. We should make coming here LESS attractive. ZERO help of any kind. No medical. No education. No jobs. No anchor babies.

As to crime these so called law abiding illegals commit who said anything about prison or trial? Just prove you are a citizen and your on your way. Otherwise your on the next flight out.

Denying jobs is the key. Subsidized healthcare is available in Mexico so I don’t see that as a big attraction. As far as welfare is concerned:
"MYTH #3: The nation spends billions of dollars on welfare for undocumented immigrants.
FACTS: To the contrary, undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive any "welfare" benefits and even legal immigrants are severely restricted in the benefits they can receive.
As the Congressional Research Service points out in a 2007 report, undocumented immigrants, who comprise nearly one-third of all immigrants in the country, are not eligible to receive public "welfare" benefits -- ever."
Illegal immigrants on welfare: fact or fiction? | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

If state agencies dole out welfare funds to illegal immigrants, then that’s the states problem.[/QUOTE]

That's why they have the kids here, so they can get the welfare for the kids....can't punish the kids for the parent's actions.

 

[syrenn]

That's why they have the kids here, so they can get the welfare for the kids....can't punish the kids for the parent's actions.

Actually its welfare and foodstamps to cover the whole family. The more kids you have the more money you get. Rather simple plan dont you think?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Has someone forgotten that poverty here is far better than poverty in Mexico?

Also, the great majority believe they are 'home'. They are not going anywhere.

And y'all r'crazy if you believe SCOTUS will change matters, and any action by the Pubs in Congress bto formally ack a bill to withdraw "anchor" birth right will result in massive defeats in the following election.

 

[JBeukema]

The solution is to shoot them as they climb the fence.

Problem solved.

 

[Againsheila]

Has someone forgotten that poverty here is far better than poverty in Mexico?

Also, the great majority believe they are 'home'. They are not going anywhere.

And y'all r'crazy if you believe SCOTUS will change matters, and any action by the Pubs in Congress bto formally ack a bill to withdraw "anchor" birth right will result in massive defeats in the following election.

Been in Mexico, been here. Seen the poor here, seen them there. What makes you think poverty is better here? Not seen any homeless camps have you? Poverty is poverty. Yeah, those with kids on welfare may be better off, but those without kids are on the streets. For some reason our country rewards people for having kids they can't afford. While in Mexico people are renting babies so they can beg for money on the side of the road.

One of my professors in Mexico complained that his neighbor was a beggar and he made more money on the streets of Guadalajara than my professor did.

Here, there are people here that live in homes with no running water. There are people that live in tents, and they WORK. Sorry, anybody who thinks our poor are better off than their poor hasn't seen our poor.

Oh, and it wasn't until the 70's that people started accepting kids born to illegals as being citizens. I'm not sure why they started doing that but I have a problem with it. How can the intent of the amendment suddenly change after 100 years?

I want to see this go to the supreme court and be decided. Then both sides can be happy as the decision will be made and we won't have to "wonder" what the intend of the 14th amendment was.

Oh, and you're right about the great majority of illegal Mexicans believing they ARE home. In fact, they intend to steal our country right out from under us. Just look at what Alberto Lozano, an official representative of the Mexican government says if you don't believe me. This isn't a quack. This is the Mexican governments attitude toward our country.

If we don't start fighting back soon, there will be nothing left to fight for.

 

[peter]

Has someone forgotten that poverty here is far better than poverty in Mexico?

Also, the great majority believe they are 'home'. They are not going anywhere.

And y'all r'crazy if you believe SCOTUS will change matters, and any action by the Pubs in Congress bto formally ack a bill to withdraw "anchor" birth right will result in massive defeats in the following election.

Been in Mexico, been here. Seen the poor here, seen them there. What makes you think poverty is better here? Not seen any homeless camps have you? Poverty is poverty. Yeah, those with kids on welfare may be better off, but those without kids are on the streets. For some reason our country rewards people for having kids they can't afford. While in Mexico people are renting babies so they can beg for money on the side of the road.

One of my professors in Mexico complained that his neighbor was a beggar and he made more money on the streets of Guadalajara than my professor did.

Here, there are people here that live in homes with no running water. There are people that live in tents, and they WORK. Sorry, anybody who thinks our poor are better off than their poor hasn't seen our poor.

Oh, and it wasn't until the 70's that people started accepting kids born to illegals as being citizens. I'm not sure why they started doing that but I have a problem with it. How can the intent of the amendment suddenly change after 100 years?

I want to see this go to the supreme court and be decided. Then both sides can be happy as the decision will be made and we won't have to "wonder" what the intend of the 14th amendment was.

Oh, and you're right about the great majority of illegal Mexicans believing they ARE home. In fact, they intend to steal our country right out from under us. Just look at what Alberto Lozano, an official representative of the Mexican government says if you don't believe me. This isn't a quack. This is the Mexican governments attitude toward our country.

If we don't start fighting back soon, there will be nothing left to fight for.

Mexicans annexing us? It won't hold. Poor country simply can't annex parts of its wealthy neighbor. That parts of country would become poor too. Maybe that official is over-nationalist and doesn't have a sense of reality.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Has someone forgotten that poverty here is far better than poverty in Mexico?

Also, the great majority believe they are 'home'. They are not going anywhere.

And y'all r'crazy if you believe SCOTUS will change matters, and any action by the Pubs in Congress bto formally ack a bill to withdraw "anchor" birth right will result in massive defeats in the following election.

Been in Mexico, been here. Seen the poor here, seen them there. What makes you think poverty is better here? Not seen any homeless camps have you? Poverty is poverty. Yeah, those with kids on welfare may be better off, but those without kids are on the streets. For some reason our country rewards people for having kids they can't afford. While in Mexico people are renting babies so they can beg for money on the side of the road.

One of my professors in Mexico complained that his neighbor was a beggar and he made more money on the streets of Guadalajara than my professor did.

Here, there are people here that live in homes with no running water. There are people that live in tents, and they WORK. Sorry, anybody who thinks our poor are better off than their poor hasn't seen our poor.

Oh, and it wasn't until the 70's that people started accepting kids born to illegals as being citizens. I'm not sure why they started doing that but I have a problem with it. How can the intent of the amendment suddenly change after 100 years?

I want to see this go to the supreme court and be decided. Then both sides can be happy as the decision will be made and we won't have to "wonder" what the intend of the 14th amendment was.

Oh, and you're right about the great majority of illegal Mexicans believing they ARE home. In fact, they intend to steal our country right out from under us. Just look at what Alberto Lozano, an official representative of the Mexican government says if you don't believe me. This isn't a quack. This is the Mexican governments attitude toward our country.

If we don't start fighting back soon, there will be nothing left to fight for.

Mexican poverty's far more widespread and vicious than here. No comparison exists.

SCOTUS will uphold the 14th, and birthright will remain.

The simple solution has always been the same: seal of the border, penalize personnel and their companies that knowingly hire illegals, and began a reform bill.

What I find interesting that Hispanics alone outweigh their nay-sayers in numbers, and those numbers will keep growing.

 

[JBeukema]

any law that undermines American sovereignty


you know what, nevermind


it just goes to prove what I've said countless times about wetbacks, politicians, and Scotus having no desire to see America's continued existence

 

[kyzr]

any law that undermines American sovereignty


you know what, nevermind


it just goes to prove what I've said countless times about wetbacks, politicians, and Scotus having no desire to see America's continued existence

Exactly. I always said that two illegals can't make a legal. Its nonsense. You should have a legal parent to become a citizen. No more running across the border just to drop an "anchor" baby.

 

[my2¢]

I'm still wondering what folks would use as proof of citizenship if birth certificates don't cut it anymore?

 

[kyzr]

I'm still wondering what folks would use as proof of citizenship if birth certificates don't cut it anymore?

same certificate, but if both parents are Mexican, or non-US, then the baby's citizenship is Mexican or non-US.

 

[Flopper]

[/B]

We aren't going to convince them of anything. We should make coming here LESS attractive. ZERO help of any kind. No medical. No education. No jobs. No anchor babies.

As to crime these so called law abiding illegals commit who said anything about prison or trial? Just prove you are a citizen and your on your way. Otherwise your on the next flight out.

Denying jobs is the key. Subsidized healthcare is available in Mexico so I don’t see that as a big attraction. As far as welfare is concerned:
"MYTH #3: The nation spends billions of dollars on welfare for undocumented immigrants.
FACTS: To the contrary, undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive any "welfare" benefits and even legal immigrants are severely restricted in the benefits they can receive.
As the Congressional Research Service points out in a 2007 report, undocumented immigrants, who comprise nearly one-third of all immigrants in the country, are not eligible to receive public "welfare" benefits -- ever."
Illegal immigrants on welfare: fact or fiction? | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

If state agencies dole out welfare funds to illegal immigrants, then that’s the states problem.

That's why they have the kids here, so they can get the welfare for the kids....can't punish the kids for the parent's actions.[/QUOTE]
Nope.

"To the contrary, undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive any "welfare" benefits and even legal immigrants are severely restricted in the benefits they can receive."

Illegal immigrants on welfare: fact or fiction? | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

When it comes to politics, what most people believe most of the time is most wrong.

 

[my2¢]

I'm still wondering what folks would use as proof of citizenship if birth certificates don't cut it anymore?

same certificate, but if both parents are Mexican, or non-US, then the baby's citizenship is Mexican or non-US.

The birth certificates I've seen provide only the place of birth for the parents and does not identify citizenship. Which is why I'm wondering what are they suggesting will be the policy?

 

[kyzr]

I'm still wondering what folks would use as proof of citizenship if birth certificates don't cut it anymore?

same certificate, but if both parents are Mexican, or non-US, then the baby's citizenship is Mexican or non-US.

The birth certificates I've seen provide only the place of birth for the parents and does not identify citizenship. Which is why I'm wondering what are they suggesting will be the policy?

The "new policy" would be that it foreign nationals can't make a US citizen.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm still wondering what folks would use as proof of citizenship if birth certificates don't cut it anymore?

What do they use NOW, when a birth certificate isn't enough? For example, MY birth certificate would be, because it not only shows that I was born in Indiana, but that my parents were respectively born in Kentucky and Tennessee. That, combined with my Social Security number and the fact that I'm of primarily English-Irish descent, would give the strong probability that I'm legal.

If, on the other hand, my birth certificate showed that I was not born in this country, and neither were my parents, then I would have some sort of documentation to prove that I was a legal resident: either a green card, or naturalization papers. And again, I would have a Social Security card.

My point is that if you are a legal resident of the United States, whether citizen or not, you have a paper trail to that effect. If "anchor babies" are no longer automatically citizens, but instead have to acquire legal residency as other people are required to do now, they will have that self-same paper trail.

 

[Cecilie1200]

We aren't going to convince them of anything. We should make coming here LESS attractive. ZERO help of any kind. No medical. No education. No jobs. No anchor babies.

As to crime these so called law abiding illegals commit who said anything about prison or trial? Just prove you are a citizen and your on your way. Otherwise your on the next flight out.

Denying jobs is the key. Subsidized healthcare is available in Mexico so I don’t see that as a big attraction. As far as welfare is concerned:
"MYTH #3: The nation spends billions of dollars on welfare for undocumented immigrants.
FACTS: To the contrary, undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive any "welfare" benefits and even legal immigrants are severely restricted in the benefits they can receive.
As the Congressional Research Service points out in a 2007 report, undocumented immigrants, who comprise nearly one-third of all immigrants in the country, are not eligible to receive public "welfare" benefits -- ever."
Illegal immigrants on welfare: fact or fiction? | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

If state agencies dole out welfare funds to illegal immigrants, then that’s the states problem.

That's why they have the kids here, so they can get the welfare for the kids....can't punish the kids for the parent's actions.

Nope.

"To the contrary, undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive any "welfare" benefits and even legal immigrants are severely restricted in the benefits they can receive."

Illegal immigrants on welfare: fact or fiction? | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

When it comes to politics, what most people believe most of the time is most wrong.[/QUOTE]

Then how ARE they managing to cost us so much money in welfare benefits?

 

[Flopper]

Denying jobs is the key. Subsidized healthcare is available in Mexico so I don’t see that as a big attraction. As far as welfare is concerned:
"MYTH #3: The nation spends billions of dollars on welfare for undocumented immigrants.
FACTS: To the contrary, undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive any "welfare" benefits and even legal immigrants are severely restricted in the benefits they can receive.
As the Congressional Research Service points out in a 2007 report, undocumented immigrants, who comprise nearly one-third of all immigrants in the country, are not eligible to receive public "welfare" benefits -- ever."
Illegal immigrants on welfare: fact or fiction? | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

If state agencies dole out welfare funds to illegal immigrants, then that’s the states problem.

That's why they have the kids here, so they can get the welfare for the kids....can't punish the kids for the parent's actions.

Nope.

"To the contrary, undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive any "welfare" benefits and even legal immigrants are severely restricted in the benefits they can receive."

Illegal immigrants on welfare: fact or fiction? | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

When it comes to politics, what most people believe most of the time is most wrong.

Then how ARE they managing to cost us so much money in welfare benefits? [/QUOTE]
If you are talking about federal costs, they aren't. However, there is no way to really tell just what the costs are since the illegals are undocumented. The best estimate I have seen is 11 billion which is about 1.1% of the total social welfare dollars.

Cost of Illegal Immigrants | FactCheck.org

Most of these dollars are administered by state agencies not the feds. It's the states that are at fault for allowing welfare dollars to go to illegals. In the states defense, they do have the personnel to investigate ever applicant. Social Security numbers are not required by law and there is no national id card.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's why they have the kids here, so they can get the welfare for the kids....can't punish the kids for the parent's actions.

Nope.

"To the contrary, undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive any "welfare" benefits and even legal immigrants are severely restricted in the benefits they can receive."

Illegal immigrants on welfare: fact or fiction? | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

When it comes to politics, what most people believe most of the time is most wrong.

Then how ARE they managing to cost us so much money in welfare benefits?

If you are talking about federal costs, they aren't. However, there is no way to really tell just what the costs are since the illegals are undocumented. The best estimate I have seen is 11 billion which is about 1.1% of the total social welfare dollars.

Cost of Illegal Immigrants | FactCheck.org

Most of these dollars are administered by state agencies not the feds. It's the states that are at fault for allowing welfare dollars to go to illegals. In the states defense, they do have the personnel to investigate ever applicant. Social Security numbers are not required by law and there is no national id card.
[/QUOTE]

Excuse me? Did you just say that illegal immigrants are costing us NOTHING in federal dollars? And your source for this outrageous statement is what, precisely?

 

[gautama]

Yes, the Constitution grants citizenship to anyone born in the US.

BULLSHIT !

Current US law:
Citizenship in the United States is a matter of federal law, governed by the United States Constitution.


Since the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment to the constitution on July 9, 1868, birthright citizenship in the United States has been controlled by its Citizenship Clause, which states:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.[3]"

The Fed Law HAS to be a law governed by the Constitution. Re the Constitutional excerpt: The implication underlying all laws is that the actions have to have the premise of being applied to LEGAL entities that qualify for the action involved.

Thus, in the excerpt: if you are ILLEGALLY naturalized, you're naturalization is NULL & VOID. If you are born in America ILLEGALLY your citizenship is NULL & VOID.

Obviously. this has been ERRONEOUSLY interpreted by the majority of the states granting citizenship to the ILLEGAL immigrants' babies.

The Illegal (primarily) Mexican Invasion gives this abovementioned GROSS ILLEGALITY more reason than ever to be corrected.