Church shooter stopped by armed citizen today? Lives saved by good guy with a gun?

[harmonica]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

hahhahahahahah--THAT'S one of the most idiotic things I've heard--and I' ve heard it more than once = people don't bother to call the police !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
= bullshit AND it's STILL not documented

 

[harmonica]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

they stop an assault and don't call the police???!!!!!!!!!?????
JESUS CHRIST = stupid

 

[JimBowie1958]

Candycorn....what is humorous about the thread.....? I am curious? It is nice to see that lives were saved by armed citizens...but where is the funny?

Candyporn laughs at anything she does not understand.

 

[harmonica]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

NO --you can't prove any more lives were saved
I CAN prove he killed people--the SD use did NOT save them--I can prove that also
hahahahahhahah

 

[harmonica]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

so --what you are saying is--there is NO PROOF --you have NO PROOF
yes, ???!!???
...you fked yourself right there--that's what I'm saying--there is no proof--and you prove my point--thank you

 

[2aguy]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

hahhahahahahah--THAT'S one of the most idiotic things I've heard--and I' ve heard it more than once = people don't bother to call the police !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
= bullshit AND it's STILL not documented

It happens all the time, you moron....

Hey, give me your money....victim draws gun, criminal runs away.....victim doesn't call the police because they don't want to spend hours at the police station for a robbery that didn't happen....you moron.

 

[2aguy]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

so --what you are saying is--there is NO PROOF --you have NO PROOF
yes, ???!!???
...you fked yourself right there--that's what I'm saying--there is no proof--and you prove my point--thank you

Keep denying the research....it makes you look more stupid every time you do it...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[2aguy]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

they stop an assault and don't call the police???!!!!!!!!!?????
JESUS CHRIST = stupid

Yep.........they don't want the hassle.....

Estimates On Defensive Firearm Use Pose A Major Problem. Here's Why.

When a gun owner presents a firearm during a threat to their life, they often don’t even need to pull the trigger. After all, a criminal with a knife or a hammer or something else will rarely decide the few dollars in someone’s wallet is worth being killed over.

As a result, even if the police are called—and they’re often not, which I’ll get into in a bit—there’s nothing for the FBI or other law enforcement to track except for the initial robbery attempt.

And, again, that assumes the police are called. Often, gun owners don’t pick up the phone.

This failure to call the police is often cited by anti-gun crusaders as evidence that it didn’t really happen. However, it’s simply not true. The gun community has plenty of stories of people who appear to have done everything right, only to become the target of an overzealous police department or prosecutor. While these folks usually end up in the clear, it’s a long, arduous, and expensive ordeal.

As the meme says, “Ain’t nobody got time for that.”

So, many continue to just go about their day. No shots were fired, so why risk it?

And even if the police are called, it doesn’t guarantee that a report will be generated. I’ve personally seen that happen, as well.

The result of all of this is a real problem in tracking self-defense statistics. We only have estimates, which vary wildly.

However, it still bears noting that even the most conservative estimates of defensive gun uses are several times higher than the number of firearm-related fatalities, even if you continue to add in suicide statistics, which anti-gunners are fond of doing.

Take those out and the difference is an even starker contrast.

 

[harmonica]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

so --what you are saying is--there is NO PROOF --you have NO PROOF
yes, ???!!???
...you fked yourself right there--that's what I'm saying--there is no proof--and you prove my point--thank you

Keep denying the research....it makes you look more stupid every time you do it...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

....but I thought you said UK crime rates were higher than the US?? if there are that many SD uses, that' means you are wrong on UK crime rates being higher than the US
hahahahahhahahah
yo also fked up

 

[2aguy]

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

so --what you are saying is--there is NO PROOF --you have NO PROOF
yes, ???!!???
...you fked yourself right there--that's what I'm saying--there is no proof--and you prove my point--thank you

Keep denying the research....it makes you look more stupid every time you do it...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

....but I thought you said UK crime rates were higher than the US?? if there are that many SD uses, that' means you are wrong on UK crime rates being higher than the US
hahahahahhahahah
yo also fked up

You need to put down the booze....take your meds, and get some sleep......

From politifact....

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

We thought Bier’s points were reasonable, so we tried to replicate his approach. We looked at the raw violent crime numbers for each country, using statistics for England and Wales for 2012 and for the United States for 2011, in a way that sought to compare apples to apples. (We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately.)

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

This calculation suggests that there is a higher rate of crime in England and Wales,

 

[harmonica]

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

so --what you are saying is--there is NO PROOF --you have NO PROOF
yes, ???!!???
...you fked yourself right there--that's what I'm saying--there is no proof--and you prove my point--thank you

Keep denying the research....it makes you look more stupid every time you do it...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

....but I thought you said UK crime rates were higher than the US?? if there are that many SD uses, that' means you are wrong on UK crime rates being higher than the US
hahahahahhahahah
yo also fked up

You need to put down the booze....take your meds, and get some sleep......

From politifact....

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

We thought Bier’s points were reasonable, so we tried to replicate his approach. We looked at the raw violent crime numbers for each country, using statistics for England and Wales for 2012 and for the United States for 2011, in a way that sought to compare apples to apples. (We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately.)

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

This calculation suggests that there is a higher rate of crime in England and Wales,

....just like the thread about why you need 13 rounds--you people are contradicting yourselves--and it's fun to see

 

[2aguy]

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

so --what you are saying is--there is NO PROOF --you have NO PROOF
yes, ???!!???
...you fked yourself right there--that's what I'm saying--there is no proof--and you prove my point--thank you

Keep denying the research....it makes you look more stupid every time you do it...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

....but I thought you said UK crime rates were higher than the US?? if there are that many SD uses, that' means you are wrong on UK crime rates being higher than the US
hahahahahhahahah
yo also fked up

You need to put down the booze....take your meds, and get some sleep......

From politifact....

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

We thought Bier’s points were reasonable, so we tried to replicate his approach. We looked at the raw violent crime numbers for each country, using statistics for England and Wales for 2012 and for the United States for 2011, in a way that sought to compare apples to apples. (We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately.)

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

This calculation suggests that there is a higher rate of crime in England and Wales,

....just like the thread about why you need 13 rounds--you people are contradicting yourselves--and it's fun to see

You make statements and pretend they are true...and get all happy.......just like when monkeys in the zoo throw their poop around......

 

[hadit]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

hahhahahahahah--THAT'S one of the most idiotic things I've heard--and I' ve heard it more than once = people don't bother to call the police !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
= bullshit AND it's STILL not documented

Babble away, it doesn't change reality.

 

[hadit]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

they stop an assault and don't call the police???!!!!!!!!!?????
JESUS CHRIST = stupid

They don't just stop it, they prevent it. And I can't help it if you're stupid.

 

[harmonica]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

hahhahahahahah--THAT'S one of the most idiotic things I've heard--and I' ve heard it more than once = people don't bother to call the police !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
= bullshit AND it's STILL not documented

Babble away, it doesn't change reality.

wow--you sure do post a lot of proof!!
hahahahhahha
...you fked yourself--the old Fruedian Slip

 

[hadit]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

NO --you can't prove any more lives were saved
I CAN prove he killed people--the SD use did NOT save them--I can prove that also
hahahahahhahah

I can prove he wasn't able to get off any more shots, thus saving lives. Giggle away, it won't change reality.

 

[hadit]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

so --what you are saying is--there is NO PROOF --you have NO PROOF
yes, ???!!???
...you fked yourself right there--that's what I'm saying--there is no proof--and you prove my point--thank you

I can't help it if you don't understand what it means that the shooter was unable to fire any more shots. Only you can fix that.

 

[hadit]

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

--sorry charlie
...EVERYDAY we see murder murder murder murder --by firearms--not even counting non-lethal shootings or firearms used in crime = thousands and thousands
..what we don't see everyday are SD uses
--get it??? murder after murder everyday- no SD uses --then we get ONE SD use and you people SCREAM ''''you see, firearms are good'''
idiocy HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
AND the guy still murdered with a firearm - and there were people armed there--so they were not saved by an SD use--so--understand?? even with people armed, the people were not saved by firearms

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

1. A lot of people who stop an assault by merely showing that they are armed don't bother calling the police and waiting for hours while the paper work is filled out on someone who will never be caught, thus there is no news story. Even if a report is filed, why would there be a news story about it?
2. After the shooter was stopped, he couldn't shoot any more people. Do you understand what that means? That means that there were a lot of lives saved that day by the people with the firearms. He could have killed as many as he had shells to fire, but was stopped.

hahhahahahahah--THAT'S one of the most idiotic things I've heard--and I' ve heard it more than once = people don't bother to call the police !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
= bullshit AND it's STILL not documented

Babble away, it doesn't change reality.

wow--you sure do post a lot of proof!!
hahahahhahha
...you fked yourself--the old Fruedian Slip

What color crayon is your favorite flavor? You don't believe the numbers, post your own, along with their source. Go ahead, but we won't wait long. Stupid is only amusing for a while and you're nearly done.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Hey, give me your money....victim draws gun, criminal runs away.....victim doesn't call the police because they don't want to spend hours at the police station for a robbery that didn't happen....you moron.

I have had several incidents where my ability to produce a gun likely saved my life or another persons. Only one of those involved calling the cops.

A friend was the target of an attempted robbery outside a gun show, believe it or not. He did not report it to the cops either.

Most defensive gun uses are not reported because you have no idea what the idiot DA might decide to do, anything from placing you on trial for brandishing to costing you several days from work to give the same information over and over again.

 

[2aguy]

The Liberty Doll......great place to get opinions on the gun issues...

Of Course the church shooter had an arrest for assault with a deadly weapon.....a gun....that the prosecutor pled down.........

So if prosecutor are going to plead down gun charges........why should we take anti-gunners seriously?

The Liberty Doll discusses the shooting in depth and brings up the arrest record of the shooter......highlighting the arrest for assault with a deadly weapon....

So, no....this was not a "Good Guy," with a gun until he used the gun illegally....this was not a normal person until the moment before he committed murder...

As I keep pointing out, with citations.........90% those who commit murder have long histories of crime and violence showing they are in no way normal people before their first murder....

She starts the criminal history of the shooter at the 5:18 mark on the video..

He was still convicted and put in prison .....so he did not get his gun legally.

He was also adjudicated dangerous if he went off his meds.....

He was arrested again for an illegal gun and he had that pled down too...........



If my plan was in place....this guy would have been in jail and could never have killed those people......

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....
Mass shooters

1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....
What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..