Christians and Anger

[Modbert]

Righteous anger? Says who? Why would God be angry? Is God God? Does God have ordinary emotions?

Well God was angry quite often in the bible, especially the O.T.

Always in the smiting and killing mood.

Even Jesus showed anger at certain times.

God did only give Adam and Eve one chance though. So a religion that relies so much on second chances and forgiveness has a God who itself (I try not to assign God a gender) is not a believer in second chances.

 

[sky dancer]

That's one reason, that I don't believe in God, as he is concieved of in --judeo-christianity-islam.

Is God a personality with a temper?

Does that sound 'godlike'? Not to me.

 

[Perham]

That's one reason, that I don't believe in God, as he is concieved of in --judeo-christianity-islam.

Is God a personality with a temper?

Does that sound 'godlike'? Not to me.

what are you comparing judeo-christian God with? I say, your own idea of God.

 

[Modbert]

That's one reason, that I don't believe in God, as he is concieved of in --judeo-christianity-islam.

Is God a personality with a temper?

Does that sound 'godlike'? Not to me.

If God is omnipotent then he would know when people are going to make screwed up actions in situations.

So therefore, God knows people are going to commit such horrible actions, lets it happen and gets angry about it.

Because remember, it's all supposedly part of a divine plan.

 

[sky dancer]

If God is omnipotent then he would know when people are going to make screwed up actions in situations.

So therefore, God knows people are going to commit such horrible actions, lets it happen and gets angry about it.

Because remember, it's all supposedly part of a divine plan.

I don't think it makes sense that God gets angry, does it? God as he is concieved of in this manner, does not make sense.

What makes sense to me is that what Christians and Jews call God, is pure being itself--completely spacious openness and love, which is beyond conception, beyond personality.

What we all seek, IMO, what some call God, others Allah, others buddha, is to be inseparable from pure being; suchness itself.

"Indescribable, inconcievable and inexpressible, the perfection of sublime knowing is unborn and unceasing, the very nature of space. It is the realm of your own self-knowing timeless awareness."

The Heart of Perfect Wisdom Sutra

 

[sky dancer]

what are you comparing judeo-christian God with? I say, your own idea of God.

Yes. It is just my idea of God. And Christians and Jews have their ideas of God and I have an idea of Buddha, and some have an idea of Allah.

In the place beyond ideas, is common ground. The place we connect beyond words. In the heart, itself, in love, in inseparability from love. In that place of pure being, we are not separate.

 

[Perham]

Yes. It is just my idea of God. And Christians and Jews have their ideas of God and I have an idea of Buddha, and some have an idea of Allah.

In the place beyond ideas, is common ground. The place we connect beyond words. In the heart, itself, in love, in inseparability from love. In that place of pure being, we are not separate.

I believe the words can't describe the common grounds of human beings. we can just feel it once everything concealing the truth disappears and the world beyond the imagination of mind reveals itself, and you let yourself go in the ocean of truth that only heart sees... that feeling is more than enough for me as a proof of God.

 

[Care4all]

Well God was angry quite often in the bible, especially the O.T.

Always in the smiting and killing mood.

Even Jesus showed anger at certain times.

God did only give Adam and Eve one chance though. So a religion that relies so much on second chances and forgiveness has a God who itself (I try not to assign God a gender) is not a believer in second chances.

Robert, take my word on this....you are clueless, regarding Judeo Christianity and God in general.....

God only giving people or humanity one chance and never a second chance without smiting them is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the Bible teaches and tells us....

START with reading the story of Sodom and Gomorrah....and the moral of the story really has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality as so many people seem to believe.....

After you are done reading it, tell me HOW MANY CHANCES God gives us before something really bad is allowed to happen to us, then tell me how undeservingly smiteful or angry He really is.....?

And also the entire gist of the Bible is God giving unrepenting humans who He had a covenant with...a "chance" a "do over"... time and time again, and they kept failing....so He sent Himself in the form of His Son, as a physical human being to SHOW US the way to HIM in the world outside of Earth, and on Earth. He wanted to show us the Way, He wants us to be with Him.....The Way is actually one of the names given to what we call the Bible today, back during the time right after Jesus's death..... and the other term it was called during this time is The Good News.

Have you heard the Good News? He is risen indeed!

But going back to why God Sent a form of himself as man....think of it this way....

Let's say you are Farmer, with a big HEATED Barn....and there is a major Blizzard going on outside with gusting winds of 60mph and sub zero temperatures....

You see a flock of birds flying frantically around from one place to another trying to keep well during the Blizzard, and you see them die off one by one because what ever they seem to do, they can not weather the storm and there is no place that safely protects them.

So, you run out to your heated Barn and open the big barn doors so that the Birds could fly in to safety from all the bad happening outside.

But they are clueless...the birds don't fly in to the warm and heated barn...they don't understand.

No matter what you did, running behind the flock, trying to get them to fly towards the heated, wide open barn doors, and a number of other things, you could not make them understand how to get in to the barn and that the barn would be a warm and wonderful and safe, protected place for them.

So you go back in to your home in despair, knowing that all of these lovely birds that were God's creation were going to meet their destiny that evening and die.

you stand at your window watching these birds fly from one bush to another, in hope of one area being better than the other, to protect them from this monster of a storm....

And then you thought to yourself:

IF ONLY I could turn myself in to a bird, and as a bird join this flock outside and SHOW them The Way in to the safe barn....they would understand if i were a bird like them, and I could lead them in to the barn!!

This is why God sent Himself as a man, as Christ....so that this lost flock of humans on Earth could be shown The Way to Him.

Care

 

[Care4all]

anyway, regarding the righteous indignation anger that i spoke about....and it being a natural response in some situations...

Example:

A repeated viscious Pedophile, who had brutally raped ten, 3-5 year olds in a Daycare center that he worked at...was released from prison early because there was not enough space to keep him there....

He gets out and within a week he brutally rapes and kills a 6 year old girl....

A natural, immediate, response to this would be and should be anger.

To supress this anger would make one NUMB, their feelings "Waxed over cold"....this is NOT a good thing....immediately expressing anger at a tragic situation like this, would be normal and justified....as long as the anger is in Moderation....and you use this anger's energy in to making certain this tragic murder isn't repeated with someone else released in to society that was dangerous, and release the anger in to the wind.


The acts of the terrorists, flying in to the trade center and pentagon, killing ALL of those INNOCENT people, so haphazzardly, would and should make one angry....

So, sky and others, I stick by what i said, there are natural times where Anger is appropriate as an immediate response and to try to squash this natural response is unhealthy along with numbing....making us cold in the heart to tragic events or injustices....imho!

care

 

[editec]

Jesus teaches non-violence, yet the Old Testament does not. The Bible includes both Old and New Testaments.

How do Christians resolve the apparent contradictions in the Bible?

Mostly by pretending those contradictions don't exist.

Differences between those wildly different Godhead in the two books are completely unreconcilable.

The OT Christians mostly ignore the NT teaching of JC.

They'll be those eye for an eye type of Christians we so often encounter.

The NT Christians seem to mostly believe that the OT God had a change of heart and became the god of love and forgiveness.

They'll tell you that JC's reason for being among men was really to tell mankind about change of management style up in the head office.

Did you ever notice that JC put up with everybody's sins no matter how terrible except the bankers in the Temple?

There's really an important lesson there.. if you sign onto the NT type of Christianity.

But of course, as good Americans living in a capitalist society, we pretty much have to pretend we don't know what that message JC was sending us could possible mean.

We also have to pretend that we don't understand why JC made his apostles take vows of poverty, too.

We also have to pretend that the "camel passing through the eye of a needle" quip was meaningless, too.

Becasuse folks, if you take the message of the NT JC seriously, it doesn't have nice things to say about materialism, rich people, greed, or averice, and let's face it...those are all aspects of REAL RELIGION that this nation practices.

Many of us claim we love the baby Jesus, but we really bow down to that golden calf of materialism.

 

[ABikerSailor]

One thing that I've learned in my travels and studies is a bit about anger.

It's a secondary emotion, meaning that something has to precede it. I've found over the years that anger is caused by 2 emotions......pain and fear.

Now....if you scare me, and I want to get you to stop scaring me, I then get angry and scare you back badly enough to make yoiu leave.

If you hurt me, I'm going to want to hurt you back to make you stop. But, because I'm not a psychopath, I can't hurt another person UNLESS I'm angry.

Additionally, anger comes from 3 situations (generally).....

1) I want what I want when I want it. If i don't get it tomorrow, I'm scared, which could lead into fear and anger.

2) I want what I want when I want it. If I'm not getting it right now, I get angry, because my wants are not being filled.

3) I want what I want when I want it. If I didn't get it yesterday, I'm resentful, which means that now I'm holding onto old anger.

How do you get rid of anger? Simple......stop being scared and hurt, which means, figure out what it is about the situation that is bugging you, see what you can and cannot fix, fix what you can, and shine on the rest that you can't do anything about it.

I've told this to a few of my friends, and they think (possibly mistakenly) that I'm one of the happiest people on the planet.

As far as righteous anger? It also exists, and is justified sometimes. When someone harms a person or a group of people, and you know it is unjustified, then getting angry is a way to correct injustice. Be careful doing it though, because anger can quickly turn to rage, and that is uncontrolled anger.

And........don't forget the song "Clampdown" by the Clash........

"Fury of the hour, anger can be power, you know that you can use it".

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7HwwA2x3Qs]YouTube - The Clash- Clampdown (live)[/ame]

 

[sky dancer]

anyway, regarding the righteous indignation anger that i spoke about....and it being a natural response in some situations...

Example:

A repeated viscious Pedophile, who had brutally raped ten, 3-5 year olds in a Daycare center that he worked at...was released from prison early because there was not enough space to keep him there....

He gets out and within a week he brutally rapes and kills a 6 year old girl....

A natural, immediate, response to this would be and should be anger.

To supress this anger would make one NUMB, their feelings "Waxed over cold"....this is NOT a good thing....immediately expressing anger at a tragic situation like this, would be normal and justified....as long as the anger is in Moderation....and you use this anger's energy in to making certain this tragic murder isn't repeated with someone else released in to society that was dangerous, and release the anger in to the wind.


The acts of the terrorists, flying in to the trade center and pentagon, killing ALL of those INNOCENT people, so haphazzardly, would and should make one angry....

So, sky and others, I stick by what i said, there are natural times where Anger is appropriate as an immediate response and to try to squash this natural response is unhealthy along with numbing....making us cold in the heart to tragic events or injustices....imho!

care

Anger is natural, AND it is healthy to acknowledge the truth of it, feel the anger, when it appears. There is a clarity to anger. Anger when realized for what it truly is, becomes wisdom.

Acting out of anger or motivated by anger is NOT healthy. What Bush did was wrong. Motivated by anger Bush lied to the American people and invaded Iraq. He was motivated by rage and vengeance. The consequences of his actions have been disasterous. Many people have died.

I'm learning the differences between anger and rage. Anger is useful to express sometimes. You make me angry as a close friend, I discover what is at the root of it and share that with you. We come to some kind of understanding and less harm occurs.

Rage is different. The only way to work with rage is to feel it and to heal the underlying hurt/powerlessness beneath it. It is NOT useful to express rage. Rage is quite endless. It cannot be satisfied. This is what happens in war, and then we have two sides with an insatiable appetite that cannot be healed.

JMO

 

[sky dancer]

I believe the words can't describe the common grounds of human beings. we can just feel it once everything concealing the truth disappears and the world beyond the imagination of mind reveals itself, and you let yourself go in the ocean of truth that only heart sees... that feeling is more than enough for me as a proof of God.

Yes, my friend. Emaho! (How wonderous) to be in the ocean of truth and experience that oneness with other sentient beings!

God cannot be proved. Yet, the experience you describe is universal, whatever we label it.

 

[catzmeow]

How do you get rid of anger? Simple......stop being scared and hurt, which means, figure out what it is about the situation that is bugging you, see what you can and cannot fix, fix what you can, and shine on the rest that you can't do anything about it.

I've told this to a few of my friends, and they think (possibly mistakenly) that I'm one of the happiest people on the planet.

As far as righteous anger? It also exists, and is justified sometimes. When someone harms a person or a group of people, and you know it is unjustified, then getting angry is a way to correct injustice. Be careful doing it though, because anger can quickly turn to rage, and that is uncontrolled anger.

And........don't forget the song "Clampdown" by the Clash........

"Fury of the hour, anger can be power, you know that you can use it".

YouTube - The Clash- Clampdown (live)

I've learned that anger is letting someone else's actions or behavior control my insides. I don't do it nearly as often as I used to. Maybe part of it is that I'm not as scared as I used to be, I've learned to be okay with being on my own, and there is very little that I can't get through.

 

[Modbert]

Robert, take my word on this....you are clueless, regarding Judeo Christianity and God in general.....

So you post all that, and call me clueless. Which I find insulting.

God gave Adam and Eve one chance, can you refute otherwise?

They ate from the apple, and were tossed out of paradise pretty quickly.

How about making Abraham bringing his son Issac up to the hill to almost kill him for a test? A TEST?

What kind of sick fuck does that? I can tell you right now, if Abraham did anything of the sort today and it was reported to the police that they arrest Abraham's ass so fast. Hell, they especially be interested when he says that God told him to do it.

How about the Story of Job? When God decides to give Satan permission to fuck with Job because Satan ACCUSES Job of only being pious because he is prosperous. Satan puts Job through trial after trial. Finally, at the end God restores everything and doubles it because Job passed his "test."

Now if God is omnipotent, why did he do this? To prove Satan wrong, a bet basically. Put a man through hell, kill his children, and inflict much damage upon him to just prove someone wrong.

God approves of slaughter for many things we'd balk at today in the O.T. Things such as killing sons of sinners (God had quite a obsession with killing first born sons in the O.T), killing the good Samaritan, killing people who work on the sabbath, killing false prophets, killing followers of other religions, killing women who are not virgins on their wedding night, killing an entire town if one person worships another God, death for cursing parents, killing witches, killing homosexuals, killing people who don't listen to priests. (I'm sure the priests quoted that one often).

And here is the thing, Christians can not ignore the O.T or invalidate it simply because it does not fit their views. It exists, it is still taught today in the church, and it's part of the history. It would be like if the U.S. decided to ignore the fact we had Slavery for all those years or the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII.

 

[catzmeow]

One thing that never ceases to amuse me...no one gets angrier than a Christian when you fail to go along with their god delusion. I'm quite certain it's based in fear.

 

[Modbert]

Some things from the N.T:

Don't associate with non-christians:

2 John 1 If there come any to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

Now If I read this correctly, I suppose you're suppose to shun me because I have opposing views.

Romans 16:17: Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and sinful enticements that oppose the teaching you have learned. Stay away from them.

Avoid Philosophy?

Colossians 2:8: Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Everyone will bow to Jesus, whether they want to or not.

Philippians 2:10-11: so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Only God can accuse a Christian of wrongdoing.

Romans 8:33: Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.

 

[sky dancer]

Does it make sense to call people who believe in God, deluded? No, I don't think so. Perham and I agree on an experience that some may label God. It is not deluded at all. It is an open, spacious, presence; awake, aware. Simply being, true, uncontrived.

What causes all the problems is not the experience of truth but all the overlying concepts. Concepts are deluded and keep up separate when unrecognized for what they are.

 

[catzmeow]

Does it make sense to call people who believe in God, deluded?

I didn't call them deluded. I said that they believe in a delusion. Not only is this delusion illogical, but it calls upon its believers to vigorously defend it. Thus, it leads to anger when challenged.

 

[Care4all]

One thing that never ceases to amuse me...no one gets angrier than a Christian when you fail to go along with their god delusion. I'm quite certain it's based in fear.

utter nonsense!

I welcome all, from all walks of life and no one makes me angry for simply believing in something that i don't believe in.....that's ridiculous! Everyone can choose their own path....religious, not religious, good or bad or democratic or republican, Christian, atheist, Jew or Buddhist or Muslim or whomever......different people, on the whole, are very interesting to me!!! (outside of my friends that i've made in nature like mr. tom turkey or mrs stripe skunk or mr red squirrel etc) there aren't alot of humans that i come in contact with to make friends with up here and those that i have met, juggle 3 jobs!!!! their lives are as mundane as mine!!!

soooooo, personally, i get a kick out of alot of people on this site whom i differ with greatly on many things!!!

care