Christian Tenets/Principles this Country's founded on...

[JBeukema]

Um, no. Christianity is naturally antagonistic toward liberty. Simply look at the christian concept of paradise (heaven): totalitarian theocracy where anyone who dissents, does not obey 100%, or fails to worship the king is sentenced to a punishment worse than death (eternal lake of fire).

complete and utter non-sense.

Please don't use pretend as a basis for a disagreement.

Christianity and Freedom were not compatable at one time. JB is right about that. But modern Christianity is compatable...let's not pretend that Christianity has not changed in the last 200 years to fit the new fangled form of government, democracy, which is spreading thru out the world.

This is why the Quakers were so reviled 300 years ago...they actually believed in equality and preached it...and got in a world of shit over it.

Christ's teachings do not change.

Only false churches change to better draw in the masses to them to walk the broad and winding road to damnation.

 

[JBeukema]

It appears to be JB's premise that if the foundation were Christian, then the FF must have wanted to promote..what, slavery? Murder?

And since that didn't happen..what, then the foundation obviously isn't based on Christian values and the founding fathers were liars.

I guess. It's too crazy really to put into words, but it's the same tripe that Bod is peddling.

If they founded a nation on Christian values, they would have acted in accordance with those values.

They would have obeyed the king, living apart from the world and owning all things in common with their fellows in the body of Christ. They would not have rebelled and sought power on Earth.

 

[JBeukema]

I think you are confusing christian with catholic church.

Most, if not all the founders were protestants.

Are what I listed just christian tenants? no idea, I'm not at all familiar with non-christian faith.

If you really wanted to know, it would take some work. Search qoutes in the Constitution then search the bible.

It shouldn't be overly hard online.

Last I checked...Catholic = Christian

Catholics are christians

Already debunked

The Gospel of Rome: Roman Catholic Plan of Salvation

 

[AllieBaba]

It appears to be JB's premise that if the foundation were Christian, then the FF must have wanted to promote..what, slavery? Murder?

And since that didn't happen..what, then the foundation obviously isn't based on Christian values and the founding fathers were liars.

I guess. It's too crazy really to put into words, but it's the same tripe that Bod is peddling.

If they founded a nation on Christian values, they would have acted in accordance with those values.

They would have obeyed the king, living apart from the world and owning all things in common with their fellows in the body of Christ. They would not have rebelled and sought power on Earth.

Yeah, ok.

So they were lying. Got it.

 

[JBeukema]

It appears to be JB's premise that if the foundation were Christian, then the FF must have wanted to promote..what, slavery? Murder?

And since that didn't happen..what, then the foundation obviously isn't based on Christian values and the founding fathers were liars.

I guess. It's too crazy really to put into words, but it's the same tripe that Bod is peddling.

If they founded a nation on Christian values, they would have acted in accordance with those values.

They would have obeyed the king, living apart from the world and owning all things in common with their fellows in the body of Christ. They would not have rebelled and sought power on Earth.

Yeah, ok.

So they were lying. Got it.

Why do you have to lie about what people have said?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Um, no. Christianity is naturally antagonistic toward liberty. Simply look at the christian concept of paradise (heaven): totalitarian theocracy where anyone who dissents, does not obey 100%, or fails to worship the king is sentenced to a punishment worse than death (eternal lake of fire).

complete and utter non-sense.

Please don't use pretend as a basis for a disagreement.

So you deny that God rules in heaven?

Or that anyone who does not accept him and obey his commandments is a sinner?

Or that sinners shall not enter heaven?

Or that the bible teaches us that sinners meet the Outer Darkness or the Lake of Fire, where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth?

Or that the 144,000 shall have a place before the throne, worshipping and singing praises to god?

I also don't believe Ghandi is rotting in hell along side Stalin

 

[bodecea]

complete and utter non-sense.

Please don't use pretend as a basis for a disagreement.

So you deny that God rules in heaven?

Or that anyone who does not accept him and obey his commandments is a sinner?

Or that sinners shall not enter heaven?

Or that the bible teaches us that sinners meet the Outer Darkness or the Lake of Fire, where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth?

Or that the 144,000 shall have a place before the throne, worshipping and singing praises to god?

I also don't believe Ghandi is rotting in hell along side Stalin

Totally agree with you there. Ghandi is in a very high place in Heaven/Nirvana/Paradise/Ellysium Fields/Valhalla if there is one.

 

[JBeukema]

complete and utter non-sense.

Please don't use pretend as a basis for a disagreement.

So you deny that God rules in heaven?

Or that anyone who does not accept him and obey his commandments is a sinner?

Or that sinners shall not enter heaven?

Or that the bible teaches us that sinners meet the Outer Darkness or the Lake of Fire, where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth?

Or that the 144,000 shall have a place before the throne, worshipping and singing praises to god?

I also don't believe Ghandi is rotting in hell along side Stalin

So Ghandi accepted Jesus and confessed such before he died?

Or you construct your own (false) religion for yourself because you think you are equal to God and can decide what his Law ought to be?

12 “ How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:

‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’

 

[bodecea]

It appears to be JB's premise that if the foundation were Christian, then the FF must have wanted to promote..what, slavery? Murder?

And since that didn't happen..what, then the foundation obviously isn't based on Christian values and the founding fathers were liars.

I guess. It's too crazy really to put into words, but it's the same tripe that Bod is peddling.

If they founded a nation on Christian values, they would have acted in accordance with those values.

They would have obeyed the king, living apart from the world and owning all things in common with their fellows in the body of Christ. They would not have rebelled and sought power on Earth.

Yeah, ok.

So they were lying. Got it.

Pandering. Let us not forget that the Founders were already politicians within their own Colonies and then States and were picked for the Continental Congress (both of them) and the Constitutional Convention as well known politicians....NOT for their religious belief.

 

[AllieBaba]

As I said, we'll go with your esteemed opinion and throw out the opinion of every great mind that has ever opined on the subject.

Cuz we all know how astute you are, and how well versed, both in Christianity AND history.

 

[bodecea]

As I said, we'll go with your esteemed opinion and throw out the opinion of every great mind that has ever opined on the subject.
Cuz we all know how astute you are, and how well versed, both in Christianity AND history.

Give us a few names of those great minds who opined on it, sweetie.

 

[Two Thumbs]

So you deny that God rules in heaven?

Or that anyone who does not accept him and obey his commandments is a sinner?

Or that sinners shall not enter heaven?

Or that the bible teaches us that sinners meet the Outer Darkness or the Lake of Fire, where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth?

Or that the 144,000 shall have a place before the throne, worshipping and singing praises to god?

I also don't believe Ghandi is rotting in hell along side Stalin

So Ghandi accepted Jesus and confessed such before he died?

Or you construct your own (false) religion for yourself because you think you are equal to God and can decide what his Law ought to be?

12 “ How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:

‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’

You're boring me now.

have a nice day filled with hate for people that never caused you any harm.

 

[AllieBaba]

As I said, we'll go with your esteemed opinion and throw out the opinion of every great mind that has ever opined on the subject.
Cuz we all know how astute you are, and how well versed, both in Christianity AND history.

Give us a few names of those great minds who opined on it, sweetie.

Jefferson. Adams. Paine. Franklin.

Again asking me to re-state what I've already stated, just minutes ago. Troll.

 

[AllieBaba]

And the Quakers...here is more evidence of how our country is firmly rooted in the Word of God....

PS...Bod claims the Quakers were "reviled" by early Americans. Despite the fact that Pennsylvania, the BIRTHPLACE OF AMERICA, was founded by Quakers who did phenomenolly well....

"William Billings, one of America’s first professional church musicians, wrote the following hymn, “Chester,” in 1778. It demonstrates how close the connection between religion and politics could be for many Americans. As soldiers sang it over and over, “Chester” became an unofficial anthem of the American Revolution.
Let tyrants shake their iron rod,
And slavery clank her galling chains.
We fear them not; we trust in God;
New England’s God forever reigns.
When God inspired us for the fight
Their ranks were broke, their lines were forced;
Their ships were shattered in our sight
Or swiftly driven from our coast.
The foe comes on with haughty stride;
Our troops advance with martial noise.
Their veterans flee before our youth,
and generals yield to beardless boys.
What grateful offerings shall we bring?
What shall we render to the Lord?
Loud Halleluiahs let us sing,
And praise his name on every chord.Source: Albert Christ-Janer and others, American Hymns, Old and New (New York: Columbia University Press, 1980), p. 143,
Reform. Woolman’s personal journey toward a more saintly life was mirrored in a broader reform movement that preoccupied American Quakers throughout the revolutionary era. Giving up political offices was one thing, but giving up the genteel lifestyle pursued by elite Quakers in Philadelphia and elsewhere was another. From the 1750s on, reforming Quakers reminded their neighbors of the traditions of the Society of Friends, which historically had promoted a simpler existence oriented toward spiritual growth rather than accumulating wealth and material goods. They thought the evangelical Protestants around them, still in the throes of the emotionalism of the Great Awakening, rightly thirsted for a greater appreciation of the spirit even if they were doing it in a distastefully enthusiastic manner that did not accord with the quiet ways of Quakerism. The reformers, including John Churchman, Sophia Hume, Catherine Phillips, and Israel and John Pemberton, took up the idea of Quaker discipline, stressing Quakerism as a complete form of life rather than a religion that could be separated from the rest of one’s existence. These men and women traveled through America, visiting Quaker meetings and speaking tirelessly about the importance of bringing children up in the Quaker tradition and putting the beliefs of the Society of Friends into action at every opportunity. Visiting committees were formed in many areas to visit Quaker families in their homes and observe the ways Quaker principles were being practiced. By the 1770s there had been a marked increase in cases of discipline for neglect of these principles in Quaker communities throughout the colonies. The stricter Quakerism that was emerging focused on the Quaker family as the core of a purer, more religious society. It meant, in the end, greater separation between Quakers and the rest of American society. The reform movement corresponded with the political isolation of the Quakers during the Revolutionary War. The Society of Friends became more and more like a sect, removed from the general trend of American Protestantism toward greater denominational interaction and toleration. Quakers lost their direct influence over society, as they became increasingly tribal, but they became a prophetic voice, urging reforms that would only be realized well into the nineteenth century."

The Quakers did fabulously well in this country, until they started to isolate themselves. And even then, the removal from the political forefront was their own doing; not the doing of a hostile government or people.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Quakers.aspx

 

[Two Thumbs]

shame

I was hoping for some point counter point debate.

Turns out it's another bash religion thread.

But it does amuse me to think there are people out there dim enough to think there is no faith based tenents in the founding of America. Considering how important church, faith and religion were in those days.

 

[AllieBaba]

Oh wow, lol...the words all stuck together, I think I'll leave it, it's sort of like art...

 

[AllieBaba]

shame

I was hoping for some point counter point debate.

Turns out it's another bash religion thread.

But it does amuse me to think there are people out there dim enough to think there is no faith based tenents in the founding of America. Considering how important church, faith and religion were in those days.

Well of course it's a bash religion thread. And a great example of just how far people will go and how dishonest they can be.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Um, no. Christianity is naturally antagonistic toward liberty. Simply look at the christian concept of paradise (heaven): totalitarian theocracy where anyone who dissents, does not obey 100%, or fails to worship the king is sentenced to a punishment worse than death (eternal lake of fire).

which sect of christianity preaches that?

Every single one that uses the Christian bible. Ever read it?

Read the descriptions of heaven and the 'special treat' the 144,00 are 'lucky' enough to enjoy. Read what awaits all those who do not properly believe. The fortunate ones face the 'outer darkness'. The rest get the eternal lake of fire.

Whatever one it is i'm glad my faith in God doesn't believe that type of stuff.

Then you believe a false doctrine, as Jesus warned. You walk the broad and winding path to damnation.

I've read the new testament and it doesn't say that specifically anywhere that I recall. You can correct me with a linked passage if you want

I believe in God, not a doctrine. Your claim that I am dammed for my belief in God is false.

 

[AllieBaba]

I think JB labors under the false assumption that one can only be Christian if one is a PERFECT Christian.

Which, while flattering (I guess) stands in direct opposition to every word of the NT. This, in turn, shows he has a limited understanding of the NT and Christianity in general.

 

[bodecea]

If we are talking about quotes, etc. from our Founding Fathers....mayb Allie can explain this one:

. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—

Part of THIS official U.S. government treaty:
Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Treaty of Tripoli