CDZ Christian Hate Groups

[Brynmr]

Not so. The good American Moslems are good in spite of Islam not because of it. They are in fact bad Moslems according to the teachings of Islam. Your argument can be easily reversed by focusing on the Moslem terror cells in America.

I doubt it's "inspite of". There is plenty of material in the Quran emphasizing tolerance, charity, forgiveness and peace.

Those peaceful earlier verses were abrogated by the more violent later verses.

Not entirely - that's a misunderstanding of "abrogated".

Myths About "The Verse of the Sword" | Qur’anic Studies

Your point is?

 

[Coyote]

Just because a few bigots decided a couple decades ago that they hated Islam and therefore Islam is all-of-a-sudden not a religion does not make a 1700 year old faith "not a religion". That's a dangerous path to follow for any religion, not mention ridiculous.

Islam does in fact resemble a political ideology much more that it does a religion though I would label Islam the world's biggest cult. The religious element is tiny compared to the political and social aspect of the doctrine.

And btw, I'm not a bigot and neither are others who see through Islam's thin veil of religion. Our understanding of Islam comes from reading it's doctrine and it's history. Islam is like no other religion. It's different and it's not at all dangerous to know it's true nature and to expose it. It's dangerous not to, as we continually see around the world.

Then perhaps your understanding is a shallow one? It's only been in the past couple of decades that folks are claiming it's "not a religion". It's certainly not much different than Judaism or Christianity - more similar than different.

I used to think Islam was a kind of Christianity without pews. Islam is nothing like Christianity nor are their 2 gods and 2 prophets. Entirely different. It's only been the past few decades that Islam has been on the rise and attacking our way of life. We have had to do catch up and we have. Many of us have spent years reading up on Islamic theology and law.

Islam is very similar to both Christianity and Judaism. The God is the same - it's just each Islam consider's it's prophet to be the last in the chain. Both Christianity and Islam are proselytizing religions and both at one time established political states under one religion. Islam is more more like Judaism in that it has a lot of complex rules for conduct and Christianity is pretty loose about that in comparison. Christianity has had considerable time to become domesticated. Islam, is only beginning the process.

I'm skeptical about knowledge claimed by those who "have spent years reading up on Islamic theology and law" - with any religion, knowledge is a lifelong endeavor, and even then there is considerable differences of opinion. Islam is particularly complex because of the law, the different schools of law, and the differing interpretations depending on the sect or the culture. There is a lot of material on the internet proclaiming expertise but I'm cynical (and, I do not claim expertise).

 

[Coyote]

Not so. The good American Moslems are good in spite of Islam not because of it. They are in fact bad Moslems according to the teachings of Islam. Your argument can be easily reversed by focusing on the Moslem terror cells in America.

I doubt it's "inspite of". There is plenty of material in the Quran emphasizing tolerance, charity, forgiveness and peace.

Those peaceful earlier verses were abrogated by the more violent later verses.

Not entirely - that's a misunderstanding of "abrogated".

Myths About "The Verse of the Sword" | Qur’anic Studies

Your point is?

Those peaceful versus aren't necessarily abrogated. For example - the violent verse does not abrogate but clarifies the conditions in which it is permissible to be violent. It's inaccurate to say simply that a later verse "abrogates" an earlier one - it has to meet certain conditions in order to do that.

 

[anotherlife]

There are only very few if any Christian hate groups at all. But the pilgrims did belong to a Christian hate group, called the puritans.

The puritans were so bad, that the king himself had to exile them out of England. Then, when reaching America, one of the wives jumped to drown in the sea rather than spend any more time with them.

The puritans were obsessed with sex and with controlling sex, like most Americans are obsessed with sex to this day, to follow those criminal traditions.

 

[anotherlife]

Just because a few bigots decided a couple decades ago that they hated Islam and therefore Islam is all-of-a-sudden not a religion does not make a 1700 year old faith "not a religion". That's a dangerous path to follow for any religion, not mention ridiculous.

Islam does in fact resemble a political ideology much more that it does a religion though I would label Islam the world's biggest cult. The religious element is tiny compared to the political and social aspect of the doctrine.

And btw, I'm not a bigot and neither are others who see through Islam's thin veil of religion. Our understanding of Islam comes from reading it's doctrine and it's history. Islam is like no other religion. It's different and it's not at all dangerous to know it's true nature and to expose it. It's dangerous not to, as we continually see around the world.

Then perhaps your understanding is a shallow one? It's only been in the past couple of decades that folks are claiming it's "not a religion". It's certainly not much different than Judaism or Christianity - more similar than different.

I used to think Islam was a kind of Christianity without pews. Islam is nothing like Christianity nor are their 2 gods and 2 prophets. Entirely different. It's only been the past few decades that Islam has been on the rise and attacking our way of life. We have had to do catch up and we have. Many of us have spent years reading up on Islamic theology and law.

Islam is very similar to both Christianity and Judaism. The God is the same - it's just each Islam consider's it's prophet to be the last in the chain. Both Christianity and Islam are proselytizing religions and both at one time established political states under one religion. Islam is more more like Judaism in that it has a lot of complex rules for conduct and Christianity is pretty loose about that in comparison. Christianity has had considerable time to become domesticated. Islam, is only beginning the process.

I'm skeptical about knowledge claimed by those who "have spent years reading up on Islamic theology and law" - with any religion, knowledge is a lifelong endeavor, and even then there is considerable differences of opinion. Islam is particularly complex because of the law, the different schools of law, and the differing interpretations depending on the sect or the culture. There is a lot of material on the internet proclaiming expertise but I'm cynical (and, I do not claim expertise).

No, the God of Islam is not the same as the Christian God, otherwise it wouldn't need the teqiyya of lies.

 

[Brynmr]

Just because a few bigots decided a couple decades ago that they hated Islam and therefore Islam is all-of-a-sudden not a religion does not make a 1700 year old faith "not a religion". That's a dangerous path to follow for any religion, not mention ridiculous.

Islam does in fact resemble a political ideology much more that it does a religion though I would label Islam the world's biggest cult. The religious element is tiny compared to the political and social aspect of the doctrine.

And btw, I'm not a bigot and neither are others who see through Islam's thin veil of religion. Our understanding of Islam comes from reading it's doctrine and it's history. Islam is like no other religion. It's different and it's not at all dangerous to know it's true nature and to expose it. It's dangerous not to, as we continually see around the world.

Then perhaps your understanding is a shallow one? It's only been in the past couple of decades that folks are claiming it's "not a religion". It's certainly not much different than Judaism or Christianity - more similar than different.

I used to think Islam was a kind of Christianity without pews. Islam is nothing like Christianity nor are their 2 gods and 2 prophets. Entirely different. It's only been the past few decades that Islam has been on the rise and attacking our way of life. We have had to do catch up and we have. Many of us have spent years reading up on Islamic theology and law.

Islam is very similar to both Christianity and Judaism. The God is the same - it's just each Islam consider's it's prophet to be the last in the chain. Both Christianity and Islam are proselytizing religions and both at one time established political states under one religion. Islam is more more like Judaism in that it has a lot of complex rules for conduct and Christianity is pretty loose about that in comparison. Christianity has had considerable time to become domesticated. Islam, is only beginning the process.

What was the name of Allah's son? Do tell.

I'm skeptical about knowledge claimed by those who "have spent years reading up on Islamic theology and law" - with any religion, knowledge is a lifelong endeavor, and even then there is considerable differences of opinion. Islam is particularly complex because of the law, the different schools of law, and the differing interpretations depending on the sect or the culture. There is a lot of material on the internet proclaiming expertise but I'm cynical (and, I do not claim expertise).

Well, it appears you have created quite the wriggle room for your... wriggling.

 

[Brynmr]

There are only very few if any Christian hate groups at all. But the pilgrims did belong to a Christian hate group, called the puritans.

They may have been a hate group but in order for them to have been a Christian hate group there needs to be doctrinal authority to support the hate. There isn't. This is why there are no Christian hate groups though there are Christians who have created hate groups. We have Moslem hate groups because the Islamic doctrine is filled with hate for the people who reject Muhammad's teachings and in fact I would label Islam itself a hate group.

 

[Coyote]

Just because a few bigots decided a couple decades ago that they hated Islam and therefore Islam is all-of-a-sudden not a religion does not make a 1700 year old faith "not a religion". That's a dangerous path to follow for any religion, not mention ridiculous.

Islam does in fact resemble a political ideology much more that it does a religion though I would label Islam the world's biggest cult. The religious element is tiny compared to the political and social aspect of the doctrine.

And btw, I'm not a bigot and neither are others who see through Islam's thin veil of religion. Our understanding of Islam comes from reading it's doctrine and it's history. Islam is like no other religion. It's different and it's not at all dangerous to know it's true nature and to expose it. It's dangerous not to, as we continually see around the world.

Then perhaps your understanding is a shallow one? It's only been in the past couple of decades that folks are claiming it's "not a religion". It's certainly not much different than Judaism or Christianity - more similar than different.

I used to think Islam was a kind of Christianity without pews. Islam is nothing like Christianity nor are their 2 gods and 2 prophets. Entirely different. It's only been the past few decades that Islam has been on the rise and attacking our way of life. We have had to do catch up and we have. Many of us have spent years reading up on Islamic theology and law.

Islam is very similar to both Christianity and Judaism. The God is the same - it's just each Islam consider's it's prophet to be the last in the chain. Both Christianity and Islam are proselytizing religions and both at one time established political states under one religion. Islam is more more like Judaism in that it has a lot of complex rules for conduct and Christianity is pretty loose about that in comparison. Christianity has had considerable time to become domesticated. Islam, is only beginning the process.

What was the name of Allah's son? Do tell.

It's the same God. Each religion puts its own spin on it.

I'm skeptical about knowledge claimed by those who "have spent years reading up on Islamic theology and law" - with any religion, knowledge is a lifelong endeavor, and even then there is considerable differences of opinion. Islam is particularly complex because of the law, the different schools of law, and the differing interpretations depending on the sect or the culture. There is a lot of material on the internet proclaiming expertise but I'm cynical (and, I do not claim expertise).

Well, it appears you have created quite the wriggle room for your... wriggling.

No, I'm simply saying I'm pretty skeptical of self proclaimed experts.

 

[FA_Q2]

There are only very few if any Christian hate groups at all. But the pilgrims did belong to a Christian hate group, called the puritans.

They may have been a hate group but in order for them to have been a Christian hate group there needs to be doctrinal authority to support the hate. There isn't. This is why there are no Christian hate groups though there are Christians who have created hate groups. We have Moslem hate groups because the Islamic doctrine is filled with hate for the people who reject Muhammad's teachings and in fact I would label Islam itself a hate group.

That is a no true Scotsman fallacy. There are indeed Christian hate groups - you may believe that they do not truly follow Christianity and have warped its tenants but that does not change that they have interpreted their beliefs in such a way as to lead to hate.
It really is not much different than Islam and those that do not agree with those that use Islam to further their hate. They may think that they are not intrepreting the faith correctly but that does not alleviate the fact that they are using said faith to feed a doctrine of hatred.

 

[Brynmr]

There are only very few if any Christian hate groups at all. But the pilgrims did belong to a Christian hate group, called the puritans.

They may have been a hate group but in order for them to have been a Christian hate group there needs to be doctrinal authority to support the hate. There isn't. This is why there are no Christian hate groups though there are Christians who have created hate groups. We have Moslem hate groups because the Islamic doctrine is filled with hate for the people who reject Muhammad's teachings and in fact I would label Islam itself a hate group.

That is a no true Scotsman fallacy. There are indeed Christian hate groups - you may believe that they do not truly follow Christianity and have warped its tenants but that does not change that they have interpreted their beliefs in such a way as to lead to hate.
It really is not much different than Islam and those that do not agree with those that use Islam to further their hate. They may think that they are not intrepreting the faith correctly but that does not alleviate the fact that they are using said faith to feed a doctrine of hatred.

Well then you can post the Christian hate verses and I'll post the Islamic ones. How about that?

 

[Brynmr]

And before you start quoting the OT, it's my understanding that the OT lays the foundation for the coming of the Messiah but the NT records the ministry of Jesus Christ and prescribes how Christians are to respond.

 

[FA_Q2]

There are only very few if any Christian hate groups at all. But the pilgrims did belong to a Christian hate group, called the puritans.

They may have been a hate group but in order for them to have been a Christian hate group there needs to be doctrinal authority to support the hate. There isn't. This is why there are no Christian hate groups though there are Christians who have created hate groups. We have Moslem hate groups because the Islamic doctrine is filled with hate for the people who reject Muhammad's teachings and in fact I would label Islam itself a hate group.

That is a no true Scotsman fallacy. There are indeed Christian hate groups - you may believe that they do not truly follow Christianity and have warped its tenants but that does not change that they have interpreted their beliefs in such a way as to lead to hate.
It really is not much different than Islam and those that do not agree with those that use Islam to further their hate. They may think that they are not intrepreting the faith correctly but that does not alleviate the fact that they are using said faith to feed a doctrine of hatred.

Well then you can post the Christian hate verses and I'll post the Islamic ones. How about that?

Again, that would be pointless. In the very next post you even tried to explain anything I might have posted away. Faith is a PERSONAL issue and the same reasons that I have used on this forum to describe why the Cristian haters are utterly incorrect in their explanation of Christianity follow for why you are incorrect in demanding that there is no such thing as a Cristian hate group.

The fact is that Christianity as YOU prescribe it may not allow for such but the same is not for others who do not understand their faith in the same manner that you do. It is not about one verse or many verse - I can use bible quotes to support almost any position whatsoever - that is the nature of a book that over a thousand pages and on the myriad of subject matters that the bible covers. The bible only has true meaning when seen through the context of your faith - something that is massively personal and different for everyone.

 

[Brynmr]

The bible only has true meaning when seen through the context of your faith - something that is massively personal and different for everyone.

Context this:

"Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57

 

[yiostheoy]

If Fox media and presidential candidate Donald Trump among others insist we add to an act of terrorism and hate, a religious qualifier, then is it not fair that we call out Christian hate organizations. There are many of them and just like any other religion they claim to be the followers of God here on earth. It's unclear whether God hates the same people as no clear hate list has arrived from the heavens recently?

Consider for instance 'American Family Association' who are boycotting Target because Target has expressed a well founded American principle of tolerance for diversity. Our preamble has no place in religious hate groups. Hate is an exception in so many areas of society. It's often unclear who to hate at any given time or historic epoch. Hate also varies in intensity and location.

So in fairness to hatred of all sorts, let's all make sure we tag people properly. Your thoughts?

"There are 939 hate groups currently operating in the United States, many of which are religiously driven. Some of these groups are led by people like James Wickstrom, a Christian minister and radio talk show host who often calls for the extermination of Jews in his sermons. Wickstrom has an extensive criminal history and has been preaching his hatred since the 1970s. Thomas Robb is another hate group ringleader. A Christian-Identity Church pastor and longtime leader of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Robb preaches the preservation and grand authority of the white race over all others. Both leaders are, unsurprisingly, anti-LGBTQ as well."

5 Dangerous “Christian Hate” Groups - TheHumanist.com

PS Is this true for Love too? That would require another investigation.

"The fact is, the most painful and tragic lesson of the 20th century was that regimes based on racial superiority and religious hatred can't be trusted to keep their word to the international community." Michael Bloomberg

Additional Item Of Interest

"state regulation of daycare facilities. Or rather, the lack thereof, if you happen to have a…think hard now…religious exemption."

"In 1997, while George W. Bush was governor, the Texas legislature exempted religious daycares from standard licensing rules. After a few years, one study found that “the rate of confirmed abuse and neglect at alternatively-accredited facilities was 25 times higher than that of state-licensed facilities.” That was enough to persuade even Gov. Rick Perry, hardly a secular champion, to back repeal of the exemption.

Still, there remain those sixteen states that haven’t gotten the message yet, and continue to provide full or partial exemptions for religious day care operators. After all, the losers are just kids—not important people, like God experts." Rules Are for Schmucks: The Littlest Victims of Religious Privilege - TheHumanist.com


"It is terrible that we all die and lose everything we love; it is doubly terrible that so many human beings suffer needlessly while alive. That so much of this suffering can be directly attributed to religion—to religious hatreds, religious wars, religious delusions and religious diversions of scarce resources—is what makes atheism a moral and intellectual necessity." Sam Harris

When you talk about the hate groups I think you should be more careful to call them PSEUDO-Christian.

Or you can simply be more specific and call them Protestant.

But you should leave Jesus' name out of it.

Jesus might not like it if you keep mentioning him this way.

No sense pissing of The Man.

 

[FA_Q2]

The bible only has true meaning when seen through the context of your faith - something that is massively personal and different for everyone.

Context this:

"Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57

The same way you would put this into context:

Anyone who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the LORD your God is to be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel.
deuteronomy 17:12

With understanding of the faith and how it fits into it as a whole. I am sure that you can understand this verse and where it fits. I am equally sure that you have almost no understanding of Islam and where those statements fit.

 

[Brynmr]

The bible only has true meaning when seen through the context of your faith - something that is massively personal and different for everyone.

Context this:

"Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57

The same way you would put this into context:

Anyone who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the LORD your God is to be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel.
deuteronomy 17:12

With understanding of the faith and how it fits into it as a whole. I am sure that you can understand this verse and where it fits. I am equally sure that you have almost no understanding of Islam and where those statements fit.

I warned you about using the OT. Try again.

 

[Brynmr]

I am equally sure that you have almost no understanding of Islam and where those statements fit.

Short of following me around for the past 15 years, I doubt that very much.

 

[Kristian]

Communists hates God really sure.

 

[FA_Q2]

The bible only has true meaning when seen through the context of your faith - something that is massively personal and different for everyone.

Context this:

"Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57

The same way you would put this into context:

Anyone who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the LORD your God is to be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel.
deuteronomy 17:12

With understanding of the faith and how it fits into it as a whole. I am sure that you can understand this verse and where it fits. I am equally sure that you have almost no understanding of Islam and where those statements fit.

I warned you about using the OT. Try again.

Irrelevant. You choose to apply your faith to the scriptures that you follow but suddenly decide that Islam can be taken out of context and interpreted with an utter lack of understanding of their faith.

You do not get to have it both ways - if someone (as MANY here on these threads have done) looks at the Bible in the same manner that you look at the Koran then you end up with all manner of atrocities supported by misunderstanding the nature of the Bible itself.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If Fox media and presidential candidate Donald Trump among others insist we add to an act of terrorism and hate, a religious qualifier, then is it not fair that we call out Christian hate organizations. There are many of them and just like any other religion they claim to be the followers of God here on earth. It's unclear whether God hates the same people as no clear hate list has arrived from the heavens recently?

Consider for instance 'American Family Association' who are boycotting Target because Target has expressed a well founded American principle of tolerance for diversity. Our preamble has no place in religious hate groups. Hate is an exception in so many areas of society. It's often unclear who to hate at any given time or historic epoch. Hate also varies in intensity and location.

So in fairness to hatred of all sorts, let's all make sure we tag people properly. Your thoughts?

"There are 939 hate groups currently operating in the United States, many of which are religiously driven. Some of these groups are led by people like James Wickstrom, a Christian minister and radio talk show host who often calls for the extermination of Jews in his sermons. Wickstrom has an extensive criminal history and has been preaching his hatred since the 1970s. Thomas Robb is another hate group ringleader. A Christian-Identity Church pastor and longtime leader of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Robb preaches the preservation and grand authority of the white race over all others. Both leaders are, unsurprisingly, anti-LGBTQ as well."

5 Dangerous “Christian Hate” Groups - TheHumanist.com

PS Is this true for Love too? That would require another investigation.

"The fact is, the most painful and tragic lesson of the 20th century was that regimes based on racial superiority and religious hatred can't be trusted to keep their word to the international community." Michael Bloomberg

Additional Item Of Interest

"state regulation of daycare facilities. Or rather, the lack thereof, if you happen to have a…think hard now…religious exemption."

"In 1997, while George W. Bush was governor, the Texas legislature exempted religious daycares from standard licensing rules. After a few years, one study found that “the rate of confirmed abuse and neglect at alternatively-accredited facilities was 25 times higher than that of state-licensed facilities.” That was enough to persuade even Gov. Rick Perry, hardly a secular champion, to back repeal of the exemption.

Still, there remain those sixteen states that haven’t gotten the message yet, and continue to provide full or partial exemptions for religious day care operators. After all, the losers are just kids—not important people, like God experts." Rules Are for Schmucks: The Littlest Victims of Religious Privilege - TheHumanist.com


"It is terrible that we all die and lose everything we love; it is doubly terrible that so many human beings suffer needlessly while alive. That so much of this suffering can be directly attributed to religion—to religious hatreds, religious wars, religious delusions and religious diversions of scarce resources—is what makes atheism a moral and intellectual necessity." Sam Harris

Ironic you lecture Christians about their hatred, but reveal yours in the same breath. You want to explain how much of a double standard that is?