Christian friends of gays and lesbians

[bodecea]

you know, you're right.

i hate fags. can't stand them. those fucking gay pride parades. disgusting.

i wish i could kill all of them.

if only it weren't for those damn hate crime laws.

soon as we get rid of those, its open season baby. vote republican.

and watch your back ******. i got my eye on you. you're next

You may be tongue in cheek there....but you are naive to think that some wouldn't welcome the chance if there were no legal consequences.

are you naive to think that homosexuals like jeffrey dahmer wouldn't welcome the chance to rape and murder little boys if there were no legal consequences?

And how many Jeffrey Dahmer like Christians are there out there waiting (like those guys in Wyoming) to have a little gay target practice?

 

[Sky Dancer]

You may be tongue in cheek there....but you are naive to think that some wouldn't welcome the chance if there were no legal consequences.

are you naive to think that homosexuals like jeffrey dahmer wouldn't welcome the chance to rape and murder little boys if there were no legal consequences?

And how many Jeffrey Dahmer like Christians are there out there waiting (like those guys in Wyoming) to have a little gay target practice?

I was at the lunch table at work when I overheard a co-worker say that he wished he could have been there in Wyoming holding the flashlight so those guys could inflict more damage.

 

[Steerpike]

And how many Jeffrey Dahmer like Christians are there out there waiting (like those guys in Wyoming) to have a little gay target practice?

It is a poor argument if you're saying things like this would be more common without law specifically protecting homosexuals.

What happened to Shepard in Wyoming has been illegal since this country began. No hate crimes laws were needed to prosecute the killers. We already have laws to address all of this sort of thing. Additional hate crimes laws are unnecessary.

 

[Sky Dancer]

No. Did my changing religious views have anything to do with homosexuality? No.

What made you break away from your faith?

I've found my faith has grown stronger at a time when most people my age seem to be breaking away from the church. At least many are not regular Church goers.

I'm not a regular church goer, unless you count Mondays when I go to hand out lunches to the homeless. It's my friends church. I have a small problem with many Churches. I don't think anyone is going to hell because they don't believe in Jesus. I tend to believe in purgatory. I think we'll all pay for our sins before we get to heaven. I can't imagine a loving God sending someone to burn in hell for eternity just for not knowing his son. I do not believe Sky Dancer is going to hell either because she's a Buddhist, or because she's gay. Now, for wanting that Christian expelled, maybe.... <just kidding>

Thanks sheila.

If I end up in hell it will be because of my Irish temper.

 

[asterism]

Then you are very, very naive.

so the only thing that is keeping christians from murdering gays is legislation that makes it a hate crime?

since i am so naive, tell me what would happen if laws did not protect gay americans. what would the powerful churches be able to accomplish in today's society?

Powerful churches were able to defeat marriage equality in California.

Were these churches pro-Obama?

 

[Spoonman]

Let me ask you a very serious question...If our laws did not protect Gay Americans, what do you think Christians (not all, but some) would do to us? If there were no legal repercussions, what do you think some Churches would advocate be done to us?[/QUOTE]

Christians are not out to destroy gays. The majority of strongly anti gay people I know are not even Christian. I think Churches do not recognize gay marriages. That is the more general stance. But no Church I know is looking to eliminate homosexuality.

I'm going to say something here that is probably going to get me a lot of crap on some other boards if read, but here goes. My sister disclosed her homosexuality about 4 years ago. She was 24 at the time. I come from a very Catholic Italian family with very old country roots. At first I think my parents thought it was a phase she would grow out of. But thet never condemed her for it, disowned her and I think over the years have come to accept it very well. They have no shame in her or talking openly about her preference. I think they may have reacted a little stronger had it been one of my brothers or myself. But that is a guess on my part.

My sister is still a very active memeber of our Church. Our priest knows knows she is gay as she has had numerous conversations with him about it. Never once did he belittle, condem or tell her she was wrong. At least from what she has told me. She isn't excommunicated, she recieves communion every week. The most negative thing she has been told is that any Union she entered into would not be sanctioned by the church.

 

[Sky Dancer]

so the only thing that is keeping christians from murdering gays is legislation that makes it a hate crime?

since i am so naive, tell me what would happen if laws did not protect gay americans. what would the powerful churches be able to accomplish in today's society?

Powerful churches were able to defeat marriage equality in California.

Were these churches pro-Obama?

Nope.

 

[bodecea]

are you naive to think that homosexuals like jeffrey dahmer wouldn't welcome the chance to rape and murder little boys if there were no legal consequences?

And how many Jeffrey Dahmer like Christians are there out there waiting (like those guys in Wyoming) to have a little gay target practice?

I was at the lunch table at work when I overheard a co-worker say that he wished he could have been there in Wyoming holding the flashlight so those guys could inflict more damage.

The Doctor trying to save that kid's life got hate mail.

 

[bodecea]

And how many Jeffrey Dahmer like Christians are there out there waiting (like those guys in Wyoming) to have a little gay target practice?

It is a poor argument if you're saying things like this would be more common without law specifically protecting homosexuals.

What happened to Shepard in Wyoming has been illegal since this country began. No hate crimes laws were needed to prosecute the killers. We already have laws to address all of this sort of thing. Additional hate crimes laws are unnecessary.

Sorry, but many people have gotten away with murdering or bashing gays since this country began. While laws may be on the books, doesn't mean the police bother to find out who did it once they find out the victim is gay.

 

[Steerpike]

Sorry, but many people have gotten away with murdering or bashing gays since this country began. While laws may be on the books, doesn't mean the police bother to find out who did it once they find out the victim is gay.

If it is the case that the police won't bother enforcing the law, then hate crime laws still won't help you. Again, there is no reason for them.

 

[bodecea]

Remember Matthew Shephard.

Whose killers were prosecuted and put away for multiple life terms without the need for 'hate crime' legislation.

However, intent was considered in their trial....are you saying intent should not count? Because that is what hate crime prosecution measures...intent.

 

[bodecea]

Sorry, but many people have gotten away with murdering or bashing gays since this country began. While laws may be on the books, doesn't mean the police bother to find out who did it once they find out the victim is gay.

If it is the case that the police won't bother enforcing the law, then hate crime laws still won't help you. Again, there is no reason for them.

So you want to eliminate the measurement of intent in criminal prosecutions.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hate crimes are not just about individual viictims. They are about terrorizing the entire minority community or category.

 

[Steerpike]

Sorry, but many people have gotten away with murdering or bashing gays since this country began. While laws may be on the books, doesn't mean the police bother to find out who did it once they find out the victim is gay.

If it is the case that the police won't bother enforcing the law, then hate crime laws still won't help you. Again, there is no reason for them.

So you want to eliminate the measurement of intent in criminal prosecutions.

Hardly. All criminal law already has intent as a component. You don't need hate crime laws for that.

 

[DiveCon]

And how many Jeffrey Dahmer like Christians are there out there waiting (like those guys in Wyoming) to have a little gay target practice?

It is a poor argument if you're saying things like this would be more common without law specifically protecting homosexuals.

What happened to Shepard in Wyoming has been illegal since this country began. No hate crimes laws were needed to prosecute the killers. We already have laws to address all of this sort of thing. Additional hate crimes laws are unnecessary.

Sorry, but many people have gotten away with murdering or bashing gays since this country began. While laws may be on the books, doesn't mean the police bother to find out who did it once they find out the victim is gay.

and that would change because of a hate law how?

 

[Sky Dancer]

And how many Jeffrey Dahmer like Christians are there out there waiting (like those guys in Wyoming) to have a little gay target practice?

I was at the lunch table at work when I overheard a co-worker say that he wished he could have been there in Wyoming holding the flashlight so those guys could inflict more damage.

The Doctor trying to save that kid's life got hate mail.

Wow. I didn't know that.

 

[asterism]

Powerful churches were able to defeat marriage equality in California.

Were these churches pro-Obama?

Nope.

Then how did Obama and Prop 8 both win in the same election?

Perhaps it's not as cut and dry as you suggest.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It is a poor argument if you're saying things like this would be more common without law specifically protecting homosexuals.

What happened to Shepard in Wyoming has been illegal since this country began. No hate crimes laws were needed to prosecute the killers. We already have laws to address all of this sort of thing. Additional hate crimes laws are unnecessary.

Sorry, but many people have gotten away with murdering or bashing gays since this country began. While laws may be on the books, doesn't mean the police bother to find out who did it once they find out the victim is gay.

and that would change because of a hate law how?

It's sends a message to people who would perpetrate hate crime that socieity does not condone scapegoating of a target population.


Why we need hate crime legislation:

First, the federal government gains the authority to prosecute anti-LGBT hate crimes. No matter how awful the crime, nor how compelling the evidence, the federal government simply cannot act without this law.

Second, this legislation will put crucial federal resources at the disposal of state and local agencies and equip local law enforcement officers with the tools they need to seek justice. There have been numerous hate-crimes cases where local jurisdictions simply lacked the full resources to prosecute the guilty. As an example, when Matthew (Judy&#8217;s son) was murdered in Laramie, Wyo., in 1998, the town had to scramble financially to handle the investigation, prosecution, and security required. The case ended up costing this small locality of roughly 28,000 people about $150,000, and the county sheriff&#8217;s department was ultimately forced to furlough five deputies to save money. The police department also incurred about $25,000 in overtime costs. Federal assistance would have been a huge help.

http://www.advocate.com/article.aspx?id=43802

 

[Steerpike]

Were these churches pro-Obama?

Nope.

Then how did Obama and Prop 8 both win in the same election?

Perhaps it's not as cut and dry as you suggest.

As I understand it, the Black vote came down heavily in favor of Prop 8.

 

[Steerpike]

Sorry, but many people have gotten away with murdering or bashing gays since this country began. While laws may be on the books, doesn't mean the police bother to find out who did it once they find out the victim is gay.

and that would change because of a hate law how?

It's sends a message to people who would perpetrate hate crime that socieity does not condone scapegoating of a target population.

It is completely unnecessary to send that message. In fact, it is probably counter-productive to send the message that a crime is more significant, or less significant, depending on whether it is directed to a certain race, creed, color, sexual orientation, etc. Better to send the message that we value all of our citizens equally and when someone is attacked we use the same criminal law to prosecute the offenders.