Chinese “Spy Balloon” evidently didn’t spy after all …

[Tom Paine 1949]

That is what it actually looks like. Even if it had been a spy balloon, so what? The US is constantly flying spy missions into Chinese territory and in parallel spy onto their own allies.

For Americans to make it into a Biden-Trump issue - basically even adds extra benefits for China.

I agree … mostly. But if it were a spy balloon intentionally sent over the Continental U.S. it would have constituted a stupid political provocation and escalation of hostilities.

Spying from satellites is acceptable under international law, but not from within the atmosphere over the territory of a foreign power. The Pentagon may have immediately ascertained this was unintended. They certainly would have shot it down earlier if they thought it was spying and they couldn’t shut down its communications.

It is not completely impossible that the balloon was sabotaged by elements in Western military intelligence or the NSA, elements trying to create an artificial scandal, and thereby sabotage any possible U.S.-China detente. The truth is we don’t know yet and may never know exactly what happened in this case, as in many other cases.

Who blew up the underwater NorthStream gas pipelines? I believe the most likely and natural culprit was a secret U.S. naval demolition team … acting under the direct instruction of President Biden. But can I (or Seymour Hersh) prove this? Absolutely not.

 

[Kruska]

I agree mostly. But if it were a spy balloon intentionally sent over the Continental U.S. it would have constituted a stupid political provocation and escalation of hostilities. Spying from satellites is acceptable under international law, but not from within the atmosphere over the territory of a foreign power. The Pentagon may have immediately ascertained this was unintended. They certainly would have shot it down earlier if they thought it was spying and they couldn’t shut down its communications.

It is not completely impossible that the balloon was sabotaged by elements in Western military intelligence or the NSA, elements trying to create an artificial scandal, and thereby sabotage any possible U.S.-China detente. The truth is we don’t know yet and may never know exactly what happened in this case, as in many other cases.

Who blew up the underwater NorthStream gas pipelines? I believe the most likely and natural culprit was a secret U.S. naval demolition team acting under the direct instruction of President Biden. But can I (or Seymour Hersh) prove this? Absolutely not.

Agree, but it doesn't matter really.

Fact is that it was an unmanned flying object that illegally entered Canadian and US airspace. And that object was national Chinese property - so China has to take the blame or face the respective consequences and the USA will have to face respective repercussions for it's own action.
The problem IMO is, that China so far has not used lethal methods to down e.g. US flying spy assets. Shooting down that balloon now opens a door for China - to act in the same manner. If manned or unmanned might not be important, if the spiral of tension between the USA and China continuous to accelerate.

As for the North-Stream pipeline: on another Forum I wrote half jokingly, half serious - that it was a joint operation by Spain and Algeria - they have huge funding problems for the pipeline connecting Algeria to Spain - and incapacitating North-Stream might just get this needed EU funding. (so theories in regards to the actual culprit, and especially a motive for such a serious deed) are indeed endless.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

What is interesting here is that the Pentagon also says the balloon was not spying or sending information back to China, at least while it was traversing the Continental U.S.A.

You expected them to tell the truth and make Biden look bad?

The Pentagon must have basically agreed with Biden’s actions. If they strongly disagreed, or felt the balloon represented a serious threat, I am confident it would have been shot down earlier, or there would have been leaks that the military disagreed with the Biden State Department & White House.

Of course every agency involved is now trying to cover up any possible bureaucratic errors or misjudgments, while not sabotaging the basic line of U.S. “blame China” propaganda on this issue. MAGA Republicans, on their part, want to expose any possible errors and blame everything on Biden, who they ridiculously argue is “in the pocket” of XiJinping!

Sadly, many rabid partisan Trump & MAGA types who say they oppose “Biden’s War” in Ukraine are pushing for provocations that may lead to a much more devastating U.S. conflict with China over Taiwan.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Pentagon must have basically agreed with Biden’s actions. If they strongly disagreed, or felt the balloon represented a serious threat, I am confident it would have been shot down earlier, or there would have been leaks that the military disagreed with the Biden State Department & White House.

Of course every agency involved is now trying to cover up any possible bureaucratic errors or misjudgments, while not sabotaging the basic line of U.S. “blame China” propaganda on this issue. MAGA Republicans, on their part, want to expose any possible errors and blame everything on Biden, who they ridiculously argue is “in the pocket” of XiJinping!

Sadly, many rabid partisan Trump & MAGA types who say they oppose “Biden’s War” in Ukraine are pushing for provocations that may lead to a much more devastating U.S. conflict with China over Taiwan.

Yeah, Biden's Pentagon agreed with Biden.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Did you expect them to say otherwise? What is interesting here is that the Pentagon also says the balloon was not spying or sending information back to China, at least while it was traversing the Continental U.S.A.

P.S. It may actually have been an out-of-control weather or research balloon blown off course, though this is not my own favorite hypothesis.

1) The Chinese haven't really admitted what these things are for.
2) There are many of them, the BBC did a report about this

New images show Chinese spy balloons over Asia

BBC Panorama worked with an artificial intelligence company to sift through millions of satellite pictures.

www.bbc.com

3) The Chinese might have figured out that the balloon had been noticed, and turned the thing off.
4) Who trusts the Chinese? Not even the Chinese people.

 

[Kruska]

The Pentagon must have basically agreed with Biden’s actions. If they strongly disagreed, or felt the balloon represented a serious threat, I am confident it would have been shot down earlier, or there would have been leaks that the military disagreed with the Biden State Department & White House.

Of course every agency involved is now trying to cover up any possible bureaucratic errors or misjudgments, while not sabotaging the basic line of U.S. “blame China” propaganda on this issue. MAGA Republicans, on their part, want to expose any possible errors and blame everything on Biden, who they ridiculously argue is “in the pocket” of XiJinping!

Sadly, many rabid partisan Trump & MAGA types who say they oppose “Biden’s War” in Ukraine are pushing for provocations that may lead to a much more devastating U.S. conflict with China over Taiwan.

AFAIK - the US President and not the Pentagon has the final word. That there were differentiating opinions and threat assessments is for sure. Like the one I pointed out - shooting down that balloon is opening Pandora's Box. IMO Biden acted politically motivated, not national security related - due to feeling the pressure being mounted by the political opposition. Since the Lefty&Lib democrats are trying to paint China as an aggressor and building up a "democratic" alliance against non-democratic China - the Biden administration might also have thought that such an action will lend further support and add towards trust by those other democratic countries.

And in regards to "trusting" the USA to save-keep democracy around the globe, the Biden administration has a hell of a lot to do - since Trump managed within 4 years to totally destroy that trust towards the USA.

As for Trump (to me he is a human scumbag) - despite his trade-war with China and others - he never addressed China to be a threat, but simply (IMO he was correct) addressing the "irregularities" of trade and IP issues between the USA and China, and also pointing out China's unhindered South-China Sea policy during the Obama administration. Whilst the Biden administration is potentially seeking/looking for military related trouble - see Ukraine, China-Taiwan, etc. - just my 2 cents.

As a military related person, the real interesting issue or rather lesson in regards to that Balloon issue to me is, to observe/notice the obvious lack of protocols in regards to the US government and Pentagon readiness status - regarding the intrusion and handling of foreign "objects". I can assure you that in many Asian countries incl. China - no one would need to "discuss" with the President or a governments political and civilian staff - about taking down an identified and especially "unmanned" object.

Same even goes for Germany were existing protocols and guidelines - determine about how and when an intruding object is cleared to be taken down. No matter if manned or unmanned - especially updated and ratified thanks to 911. Presently even in regards to Russia and the existing tension - those protocols stand and are being followed to the last letter. If German chancellor Scholz (called Smurf) forwarded a personal note - saying he wants the last word - is not known to me.

So China was certainly most interested and happy to learn about that particular issue. Independent of all these constant national security leaks in the USA - due to the exact same reasons.

 

[hjmick]

Because the Western MSM tells the truth?
Delightful

Please go ahead and point out to us where I said they did...

We'll wait...

 

[Kruska]

Please go ahead and point out to us where I said they did...

We'll wait...

The "Global Times" isn't just a tabloid - but the official CPC sanctioned and most informative English-language newspaper in China
If one want's to believe the articles written, is everyone's own choice.

However you singled it out amongst 3 sources provided by the OP - so now YOU are waiting for what...?

 

[beautress]

The Chinese Global Times reports that the recent U.S Defense Department “forensic” report on the remains of the Chinese “Spy Balloon” downed by U.S. airforce jets off the East Coast has in fact concluded that it was NOT used for any spying or sending of information back to China — which is what the Chinese government insisted on from the beginning.

Nevertheless this information has been all but “disappeared” among conflicting media reports that the balloon ostensibly contained some unspecified off-the-shelf U.S.Equipment (!) … that “could be” (some U.S. media sources say “was”) used for spying purposes.

Here are three articles, one Chinese and two typical but rather different Western media reports, that cover this very curious Cold War - hyped dichotomy of views.

Apparently the famous motto “The first casualty of war is the truth” … could be extended to the new U.S.-China “Cold War” as well.

After five months of strained ties, US admits Chinese balloon did not collect information - Global Times

Chinese spy balloon used US technology to surveil Americans

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/29/politics/china-surveillance-balloon-pentagon-intl-hnk/index.html

China was innocent of spy charges with a satellite balloon that invaded US and Canadian air space concentrating on areas where energy resources and military secret operations may have been monitored?

Are we talking about the same China who for years has conspired and acted with Mexico's hemorrhoidal attitude toward US border states to kill off over 100,000 American citizens per year for years now? And the Idiot Prince Joe Biden has opened America's border rather than providing for the common defense of half a million dead Americans from the fentanyl poisoning spree China and Mexico have pushed off on innocent human beings who just want a little illegal, untaxed drug high and wound up six feet under from the fentanyl poisoning China has shuffled in by way of Mexico's new regime, the fentanyl crooks crowd who charge a fortune for "highs" with the real money rolling in in the amount of $2,000 per American death. Not to be outdone, what has the Biden Crime family done to get their 30% share of this Foreign disaster money raising to support China's lockstepping armada! Lemme see. 30% of $2,000 is about $600 per head for Joe Biden's crime family, and $1400 per head for the Mexican Drug, and Boinking babies activities. For every dead child the sex fiends bust open their butts and vaginas, Joe gets $600???? Well, he did it to all the Foreign Aid Packages he demanded or else the countries loose their Billion dollars that Joe gets from threatening to use his high office for 44 years to make himself richer than Midas, the crawling creep!

Oh, Joe is now putting on a show as he pretends to be against China, while China makes him wealthy with his Drug Cartel take. Joe has already proved that morally, he is an empty shell, so why should he stop cheating the American taxpayer of billions of dollars a year he uses to pay off precinct chairmen so the Democrat Party takes all, with him on the top of the world. Wake up, Americans. Biden is an extortion King, a thief, and has killed more Americans that the Chicago and NY mafias combined, only he can choose to sleep at the White House or any of his 5 multimillion dollar homes he bought with a question mark over how did a Senator on a senator's stipend get to be the richest man in America if you find all his offshore accounts where he tucks the excess away all for himself out of the greediest criminal mind in America that is in his otherwise empty head.

Pelosi can't help him, because of her abuse of power and the women she promotes into high office with lots and lots of money she has pickpocketed from the american taxpayers, lavishing millions on women she buys for stacking all the congressional votes straight into her greedy pockets. She too has untold wealth, and don't be fooled by that $200 and something million dollars that the public can see, when offshore accounts (Let's have a congressional party in the carribbean again this year). Woo Hooey Hoo.

Hillary Clinton, a pro piggy bank zillionnaire has tapped the Clinton Library Foundation (respectable name, huh for a former President exclusive benefit) for chump change in her never-ending ambition to the the first female president (God forbid!) in history. Putting women in charge of Congress and the WH has resulted in a monster-sized scamming of the American taxpayer. When only men were in charge, they could publicly whip the cheaters, and send them back home to be replaced by someone who wasn't a cheater. You can't do that to a female cheater or she'll scream "rape!!!" And you know what that means. She doesn't have to prove a damn thing. If she says she was raped, he pays up even if he wasn't in the same state when she claimed the rape happened. In other words, shut up America, we girls are better than you guys (not.) If the women in power have done anything as puerile as tearing up a Presidential Annual Address to the shape America is in, they really do not belong in the Congress, and much less in the Speaker's Chair because she has a thousand ways she can hurt you if you don't bow down to the idol she has made of herself by claiming she is the most important woman in the world. And as low as her Congressional Speaker years, she has doomed America to payback money her Congress borrowed from to line her pockets with a false front of "saving the environment," which is based on greed, not on true environmental needs. Who's gonna know but a bunch of scientists whose bread and butter is doing what the Congressional Mogul Madonnas demand what brand of hide and seek they have on their money-making off the public schema.

The Democrats shouldn't make a Monarchy out of a free country with destroying every Amendment in the Constitution that stands in their way of Deep State Oligarchy, which interpreted correctly is we have to pay a king's ransom for every Oligarch in power of this or that governing issue, which would be in the hundreds. Our American forebears sweated blood and wealth out of their systm to build a Capitol, and provide for each state's representatives, an executive branch, and a judicial trust. If the Democrats get their way, the spending will make us have zero groceries, not just a 60% hike in the price of meat, and a 50% hike on everything else. Oh, and a $200 air conditioner is now around $700.00. Do the math. The man on the street is getting screwed as bad as the 3-year-old give or take a few years, Cartel Kids who come here needing a hystorectomy or colon surgery right away or they will die, and their long-lost parents will get a million bucks apiece from the national give-a-mint fund.

The Democrats claim they are "woke," but they're certainly not giving any peace to the banks and financial groups who are trying to help people keep from going broke with their lifetime of savings the Democrats ar ambitiously seeking ways to get all that savings money, claiming the owners that worked hard for a nest egg don't deserve it. Satan is having a field day, and we need to send him back to Hell forever.

That's my conspiracy theory, and I'm stickin' to it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

AFAIK - the US President and not the Pentagon has the final word. That there were differentiating opinions and threat assessments is for sure. Like the one I pointed out - shooting down that balloon is opening Pandora's Box. IMO Biden acted politically motivated, not national security related - due to feeling the pressure being mounted by the political opposition. Since the Lefty&Lib democrats are trying to paint China as an aggressor and building up a "democratic" alliance against non-democratic China - the Biden administration might also have thought that such an action will lend further support and add towards trust by those other democratic countries.

And in regards to "trusting" the USA to save-keep democracy around the globe, the Biden administration has a hell of a lot to do - since Trump managed within 4 years to totally destroy that trust towards the USA.

As for Trump (to me he is a human scumbag) - despite his trade-war with China and others - he never addressed China to be a threat, but simply (IMO he was correct) addressing the "irregularities" of trade and IP issues between the USA and China, and also pointing out China's unhindered South-China Sea policy during the Obama administration. Whilst the Biden administration is potentially seeking/looking for military related trouble - see Ukraine, China-Taiwan, etc. - just my 2 cents.

As a military related person, the real interesting issue or rather lesson in regards to that Balloon issue to me is, to observe/notice the obvious lack of protocols in regards to the US government and Pentagon readiness status - regarding the intrusion and handling of foreign "objects". I can assure you that in many Asian countries incl. China - no one would need to "discuss" with the President or a governments political and civilian staff - about taking down an identified and especially "unmanned" object.

Same even goes for Germany were existing protocols and guidelines - determine about how and when an intruding object is cleared to be taken down. No matter if manned or unmanned - especially updated and ratified thanks to 911. Presently even in regards to Russia and the existing tension - those protocols stand and are being followed to the last letter. If German chancellor Scholz (called Smurf) forwarded a personal note - saying he wants the last word - is not known to me.

So China was certainly most interested and happy to learn about that particular issue. Independent of all these constant national security leaks in the USA - due to the exact same reasons.

Since the Lefty&Lib democrats are trying to paint China as an aggressor

China isn't an aggressor?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

That is what it actually looks like. Even if it had been a spy balloon, so what? The US is constantly flying spy missions into Chinese territory and in parallel spy onto their own allies.

For Americans to make it into a Biden-Trump issue - basically even adds extra benefits for China.

I personally am not clear if the U.S. has recently used high altitude “spy balloons” over China. I’d appreciate any evidence you may have about this. Of course decades ago the U.S. flew U-2s regularly over both China and Russia (while denying these flights) until one was shot down and its pilot captured flying over the USSR. We certainly still do sophisticated reconnaissance near the coasts of China (and Russia), and of course nearly everybody has or can utilize “spy” satellites these days.

Chinese officials and media have maintained the U.S. has recently used “spy balloons” over China. The BBC reports:

“In a statement, the Chinese Embassy in London accused the US of itself releasing a large number of high-altitude balloons, which have continuously circled the globe and illegally flown over China's airspace.” — New images show Chinese spy balloons over Asia

But the Chinese have seemed not yet to have provided any proof of this. So they may just be outright lying here, or the balloons may have existed but been considered not especially threatening. There may have in the past been a tentative mutual recognition that certain kinds of high-altitude “research” balloons were accepted by both sides — which is clearly no longer the case.

There are I presume many kinds of “research” that both U.S. and Chinese scientists do in the upper atmosphere — some innocuous or beneficial, but obviously some clearly with potential military use, as atmospheric conditions might effect ballistic missiles, signal intelligence, etc. As you said, there can also be military value in understanding how probes of opponents are handled by them.

But all the above is pure speculation on my part. I’m no expert on these questions. The apparent lack of “proof” of Chinese allegations about Western “spy balloons” is interesting to me. I suspect they just don’t have any real solid evidence since they never shot down any, or hope the whole issue dies down … since such flights are now clearly out of the question.

In any case, the big danger right now has nothing to do with balloons, but is rather of another collision or shoot down of one or another side’s manned surveillance or fighter planes in areas near China’s coasts or Taiwan … or of ships in disputed waters.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What is interesting here is that the Pentagon also says the balloon was not spying or sending information back to China, at least while it was traversing the Continental U.S.A.

You expected them to tell the truth and make Biden look bad?

That wouldn't make Biden look bad. You are smarter than these tinfoil hat freaks. Maybe you spend too much time with them.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Chinese Global Times reports that the recent U.S Defense Department “forensic” report on the remains of the Chinese “Spy Balloon” downed by U.S. airforce jets off the East Coast has in fact concluded that it was NOT used for any spying or sending of information back to China — which is what the Chinese government insisted on from the beginning.

Nevertheless this information has been all but “disappeared” among conflicting media reports that the balloon ostensibly contained some unspecified off-the-shelf U.S.Equipment (!) … that “could be” (some U.S. media sources say “was”) used for spying purposes.

Here are three articles, one Chinese and two typical but rather different Western media reports, that cover this very curious Cold War - hyped dichotomy of views.

Apparently the famous motto “The first casualty of war is the truth” … could be extended to the new U.S.-China “Cold War” as well.

After five months of strained ties, US admits Chinese balloon did not collect information - Global Times

Chinese spy balloon used US technology to surveil Americans

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/29/politics/china-surveillance-balloon-pentagon-intl-hnk/index.html

They said it did not collect any information.

Not that it was not designed to do so or capable of doing so.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That wouldn't make Biden look bad. You are smarter than these tinfoil hat freaks. Maybe you spend too much time with them.

I'm mocking the idiot in the tinfoil hat.

 

[beautress]

Since the Lefty&Lib democrats are trying to paint China as an aggressor

China isn't an aggressor?

People who poison people they dislike are passive-agressives. China poisoned 305,000 Americans by way of fentanyl cooked up between Chinese hit men and Mexican Cartel killers in the past 3 years. And the deceased paid them a pretty penny for their joy juice pills

 

[Kruska]

Since the Lefty&Lib democrats are trying to paint China as an aggressor

China isn't an aggressor?

If you know of any country that China attacked since 1980 - don't hesitate to let me know.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you know of any country that China attacked since 1980 - don't hesitate to let me know.

China is in no way aggressive, anywhere in the world?

 

[Rigby5]

So the CHINESE have reported that the CHINESE balloon did not spy.

Yeah right.

Balloons are not useful for spying.
They can not carry enough weight, and can not be navigated.
They can't hold more than 1000 lbs at most, and go with the wind only.
If one is going to spy, a satellite or high altitude plane makes much more sense.

 

[Rigby5]

China is in no way aggressive, anywhere in the world?

The only place China was aggressive was Tibet in the 50s, and minor skirmish with Vietnam, after we left, over Pol Pot in Cambodia.

 

[skye]

My God.....are they starting again with the freaking balloon?

this is just too much....