Child Support is unfair

[Intense]

He wasn't their father. The father was the neighbor who wasn't paying a red cent. Whether the kids would have been upset or not doesn't matter. The man shouldn't be paying a penny for kids he didn't father.

He should not be forced to pay support for kids that he did not Father. If he willingly chooses to step up, it's been done before.

 

[AmyNation]

The ebt doesn't track like you seem to think it does.

How does it declog our court system?

Who's going to pay for this new system of tracking you want?

And if the monies the primary parent spend far exceed the amount the other parent sends, are they then required to reimburse the primary parent?

 

[jillian]

He wasn't their father. The father was the neighbor who wasn't paying a red cent. Whether the kids would have been upset or not doesn't matter. The man shouldn't be paying a penny for kids he didn't father.

He should not be forced to pay support for kids that he did not Father. If he willingly chooses to step up, it's been done before.

in some unusual and rare cases, people have to pay support because they're the psychological parent of the child.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Also, I made it clear that spending money on oneself does not count as child suppprt so far, nobody has countered that.

Does the mother have that luxury?

Can she say, "I've divided up the money and even though its only the 20th of the month, I refuse to spend any of "MY" money on my children"?

The courts NEVER award any where near what is fair. I agree with the poster who said that no matter how much the father is supposed to pay, he's getting off easy because the awarded amount is never half. Instead, its based on what the father can afford to pay.

Is the amount that the mother has to pay every month based on what she can afford? Nope.

 

[Annie]

I can understand the feeling, however whether she/he takes that specific check and spends it on nails or beer, is not the other parents business.

Think of the money for child support as a reimbursement check, for monies the primary parent has already spent that month for the child.

What if she did not spend any on the child & blew all the money on crack?

I'm thinking the dad would be back in court, demanding full custody?

Face it, most women with custody and men for that matter that are collecting child support are having problems with their own income.

It's been years since I received child support, all 3 are over 18. My ex had to pay $1800 per per month, $600 each child until each reached 18. The oldest was 12, the youngest 9, when it went into effect. I never requested alimony and never an increase in child support. The first year he tried to pawn it off as 'unallocated support' and I faced a tax bill of over $10k. That was reversed to child support, based upon his income. I got the refund and he got the tax bill. That was based upon his 'income' of $52k at the time of the divorce. Within a month of the decree, his income went to over $150k.

After that, we divided up the deductions, as per agreement. In spite of his income of over $200k per year by the time the kids were hitting college, he paid 0 for their college costs. Same with orthodontia, etc. If I wouldn't 'split' the costs, he was out of that. I couldn't, making around $20k to start. Never got over $30k before youngest was 18. So I helped where I could, but for the most part they had to pay for themselves, they did through scholarships and working.

Until our divorce, the kids attended private schools, were in traveling leagues and private music lessons. They were used to nice vacations, clothes, and museum/zoo memberships. That all ended, but did figure into child support and his ability to pay.

Unless the custodial parent is willing to repeatedly go to court, after a few years child support is far less for most than trying to raise the children. All of the 'support' was used to keep housing, food, clothing, and school fees paid.

 

[Steelplate]

You're talking as if every woman out here is responsible. Remember majority of the single mothers are young. In addition to that, a lot of these single mothers are getting help from mommy or daddy or grand.mother. Spare me the sob story of what women pay. The system is unfair and I have challenged that and you have not demonstrated otherwise, you can't come through with the answer, typical of a steelers fan.

typical Steelers fan? What does that mean? You do realize that attacks are not allowed here. What they get from mommy and daddy is NONE of your business.

The system is NOT unfair. You shot the wad....you help pay for your kid...it's real....REAL simple. If you don't like it? well, like I said....masturbation is cheaper(you don't have to take your hand out for dinner and a movie), and there's ZERO chance for putting yourself into a situation you obviously don't want to.have to contend with.

It's also pretty obvious that no matter what ANYONE says, you have your mind made up....you come up with all of these ridiculous scenarios.....nails, beer, crack, $500 handbags, etc.....you remind me of some conservatives who do.the "welfare mom with a Mercedes and a 60" LED TV" thing.....they don't want an honest discussion or even a debate....they just want to feign outrage.

Are you that uptight you can't take a friendly poke at your team? I was attacking your football team not you personally.

Let me say that your notion of "you get her pregnant its your choice" is a ridiculous cop out to cover the irresponsibility of some women who misuse child support. Any reasonable man understands the risk of unprotected sex but that is not the issue here. The issue here is a flawed system that many women take advantage of. A lot of women use the money on themselves and not for their kid. A lot of men with good paying jobs shell out cash monthly because there are women who are too lazy to get a damn job. Most of you are making it sound like women do all this work. First off statistics show that women younger 18 are parents and are recipients of government assistance. Most reside in the Bible belt, and a lot of them come from low socioeconomic backgrounds so please save the "women do x, y, and z" argument. A lot of these girls have unprotected sex due to risky sexual behavior and no home training.

So no, its not just some guy sticking his dick in a woman. Its two young idiots procreating painting the human gene pool. Its these kind of huma who create kids like "Honey Boo Bo." You're speaking as if these single mothers are 30 year old. Please spare me.

First off.....re-read your post. you said "typical of a Steelers fan" That was not a friendly poke at the team.....that was a dig on me.

anyway....those young idiots? Which do you think is learning about life faster? The one who gets $100 or so taken out of his/her check, or the one who is raising the child?

I do agree with the "no home training" thing. You bring up a good point. But there it's not just rednecks that have unprotected sex. There is also a subculture in our inner cities where having a baby young is a status symbol. Young people these days are woefully unprepared for parenthood. The current environment is one of instant gratification where the concept of putting yourself in a position of secondary importance/priority is getting more and more alien to young people.

 

[Steelplate]

My issue with child support stems from the lack of tracking of how monies are spent. There is noguarantee that any deducted money (from levies or established payment systems) actually go to the support of the child. If there is a payment plan, all plans should be tracked. A man who works has every right to know how his money is spent on the child. Like the EBT system the government can track any money that are spent in accordance to state defined support for the child. Not only does that cut down on misuse of monies spent, it declogs our court system.

The problem is the assumption that they're not using that money on the child without proof. What if she uses the EBT card that you suggest to pay rent or to pay the heat or electric bill, and then gets her nails done with her wages from her job?

That's the problem....the household does support the child....it's not a matter of "my money/your money".

 

[Annie]

My issue with child support stems from the lack of tracking of how monies are spent. There is noguarantee that any deducted money (from levies or established payment systems) actually go to the support of the child. If there is a payment plan, all plans should be tracked. A man who works has every right to know how his money is spent on the child. Like the EBT system the government can track any money that are spent in accordance to state defined support for the child. Not only does that cut down on misuse of monies spent, it declogs our court system.

The problem is the assumption that they're not using that money on the child without proof. What if she uses the EBT card that you suggest to pay rent or to pay the heat or electric bill, and then gets her nails done with her wages from her job?

That's the problem....the household does support the child....it's not a matter of "my money/your money".

I know that all the years my kids were under my care, there wasn't a problem in paying for housing and food. It sometimes got dicey for school/sports fees and clothes for them, but not the essentials. That was with me working too.

Through those years, I bought no new clothes, none. One pair of gym shoes. I still have underwear, sweaters, and shoes that I had when married, 18 years ago. No joke. It's been 8 years since my youngest turned 18 and child support stopped. For about 5 years I was able to do somethings for me. That stopped when I was riffed.

That I fell upon hard times hasn't anything to do with ex, though the fact that I had to go through my 1/2 of 401k proceeds to let the kids have orthodontia and participate in sports, music, was.

I don't regret the divorce, I do regret that I didn't heed the advice for alimony, since I am functionally deaf and it's coming into play regarding hiring. But that wasn't my ex's fault, my own.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

... the household does support the child....it's not a matter of "my money/your money".

That's true for the custodial parent or for two parent households but the op is correct that he gets to pay a much "discounted", if you will, amount of money and then walk away until next month.

Its not a fair system to the mother or to the children.

 

[Steelplate]

My issue with child support stems from the lack of tracking of how monies are spent. There is noguarantee that any deducted money (from levies or established payment systems) actually go to the support of the child. If there is a payment plan, all plans should be tracked. A man who works has every right to know how his money is spent on the child. Like the EBT system the government can track any money that are spent in accordance to state defined support for the child. Not only does that cut down on misuse of monies spent, it declogs our court system.

The problem is the assumption that they're not using that money on the child without proof. What if she uses the EBT card that you suggest to pay rent or to pay the heat or electric bill, and then gets her nails done with her wages from her job?

That's the problem....the household does support the child....it's not a matter of "my money/your money".

I know that all the years my kids were under my care, there wasn't a problem in paying for housing and food. It sometimes got dicey for school/sports fees and clothes for them, but not the essentials. That was with me working too.

Through those years, I bought no new clothes, none. One pair of gym shoes. I still have underwear, sweaters, and shoes that I had when married, 18 years ago. No joke. It's been 8 years since my youngest turned 18 and child support stopped. For about 5 years I was able to do somethings for me. That stopped when I was riffed.

That I fell upon hard times hasn't anything to do with ex, though the fact that I had to go through my 1/2 of 401k proceeds to let the kids have orthodontia and participate in sports, music, was.

I don't regret the divorce, I do regret that I didn't heed the advice for alimony, since I am functionally deaf and it's coming into play regarding hiring. But that wasn't my ex's fault, my own.

Did you ever consider looking at the Civil Service lists in your state? The Public Sector is much more accommodating to physical challenges than the private sector.

But back to the topic...That's what I don't think Aristotle gets.....that it's not just young teenieboppers that get stuck in a single parent situation. It's also responsible people who get married with the best intentions but for one reason or another, things don't work out. What's the statistic....half of the marriages in the US end in divorce? That goes way beyond sticky fumblings in the back seat of a car by two kids.

God bless ya, and I hope things turn around for you soon....from what you've said in this post, you deserve it.

 

[Steelplate]

... the household does support the child....it's not a matter of "my money/your money".

That's true for the custodial parent or for two parent households but the op is correct that he gets to pay a much "discounted", if you will, amount of money and then walk away until next month.

Its not a fair system to the mother or to the children.

Oh, I agree....or....to be fair, in this day and age....it's not as uncommon as it used to be to have a woman leave her husband with the kids....it's not fair to him either.

But, what in your opinion would be a fair system for the single parent?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

... the household does support the child....it's not a matter of "my money/your money".

That's true for the custodial parent or for two parent households but the op is correct that he gets to pay a much "discounted", if you will, amount of money and then walk away until next month.

Its not a fair system to the mother or to the children.

Oh, I agree....or....to be fair, in this day and age....it's not as uncommon as it used to be to have a woman leave her husband with the kids....it's not fair to him either.

But, what in your opinion would be a fair system for the single parent?

Actually, I was just thinking about that and decided not to post because I really don't know.

As hard as it is to support one household with two checks, supporting two is almost impossible. But, one thing that has never changed is that divorce puts women in the poor house. It really is the woman who loses the most.

I know a couple of women who tell very similar stories to Annie's. One woman I know stayed in an abusive marriage because of money. She's well into middle age and has no way to support herself.

I'm sure that many judges have tried to answer that question too.

 

[Annie]

The problem is the assumption that they're not using that money on the child without proof. What if she uses the EBT card that you suggest to pay rent or to pay the heat or electric bill, and then gets her nails done with her wages from her job?

That's the problem....the household does support the child....it's not a matter of "my money/your money".

I know that all the years my kids were under my care, there wasn't a problem in paying for housing and food. It sometimes got dicey for school/sports fees and clothes for them, but not the essentials. That was with me working too.

Through those years, I bought no new clothes, none. One pair of gym shoes. I still have underwear, sweaters, and shoes that I had when married, 18 years ago. No joke. It's been 8 years since my youngest turned 18 and child support stopped. For about 5 years I was able to do somethings for me. That stopped when I was riffed.

That I fell upon hard times hasn't anything to do with ex, though the fact that I had to go through my 1/2 of 401k proceeds to let the kids have orthodontia and participate in sports, music, was.

I don't regret the divorce, I do regret that I didn't heed the advice for alimony, since I am functionally deaf and it's coming into play regarding hiring. But that wasn't my ex's fault, my own.

Did you ever consider looking at the Civil Service lists in your state? The Public Sector is much more accommodating to physical challenges than the private sector.

But back to the topic...That's what I don't think Aristotle gets.....that it's not just young teenieboppers that get stuck in a single parent situation. It's also responsible people who get married with the best intentions but for one reason or another, things don't work out. What's the statistic....half of the marriages in the US end in divorce? That goes way beyond sticky fumblings in the back seat of a car by two kids.

God bless ya, and I hope things turn around for you soon....from what you've said in this post, you deserve it.

Thanks, perhaps good advice. At 57 though, functionally deaf, but a terrific teacher, who knows?

How good am I as a teacher? I'm booked for next 3 weeks as a sub, different schools, even districts. Mostly high school, but a few middle schools thrown in. Why? i adhere to lesson plans and can adjust when they are goofed. Meaning a sick teacher sends lesson plans they've already covered. I don't sub in general in subjects I'm unqualified for, meaning PE, Math above geometry. Anything else? I can deal with.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Good Luck, Annie.

 

[Aristotle]

The ebt doesn't track like you seem to think it does.

How does it declog our court system?

Who's going to pay for this new system of tracking you want?

And if the monies the primary parent spend far exceed the amount the other parent sends, are they then required to reimburse the primary parent?

The State can track what you spend and limit spending on items that are non-essential to sustenance. For example, with the EBT card you can track your balance and purchases you've made. I propose the same with child support. Have the state set standards of what is essential to the welfare of the child. Making purchases of alcohol and/or items not essential to the well-being of the child off limits.

Example:

The primary custodian must indicate how much rent they pay a month, have whatever amount that is agreed upon, and allow any monies to be deducted to go towards the rent and/or utilities. The purchasing of any or new items which causes debt, non-essential to the welfare of the child is off limits. The purchasing of alcohol or tabacco is off limits. The purchasing of adult clothing and/or gift bags is off limits. Any money that is taken out via ATM transaction must have follow up documentation as to why monies were taken out.

Sounds like work doesn't it? I gurantee you, if you employ this standard in divorce decrees or custody disputes the courts would be less clogged with domestic issues than they are now. As far as exceeding the amount all you have to do is come to an agreeable standard of payment per month or bi-weekly, put that amount on the card and have that person use that amount on that card.

If additional money is needed, social workers must be contacted, the person requesting an additional amount must document why he/she needs additional money and based on the request, the one paying child support must provide additional financial support. This eliminates custody disputes regarding finances.

 

[AmyNation]

1st, what you purpose is a huge burden on the state, added layers of government we dont need, intrusiveness/loss of privacy from both the government and the other parent, and the cost would be very high for something I see as unnecessary.

2nd, you seem to be under the impression non-custodial parents are often sending excessive amounts of money that need to be accounted for.

I seriously think you need to invest some time in researching how much it cost to care for a child, because your lack of knowledge in this topic is glaring.

 

[Aristotle]

My mentioning of the mother spending child support money partially comes from the following:

"Sean Combs, a.k.a. "P.Diddy," agreed to pony up more than $4.5 million in child support for his youngest son, Christian, 3, the "New York Post" reported. The hip-hop star and the child's mother, model Kim Porter, reportedly reached a settlement on their own, and Porter and lawyers for both sides appeared in family court in New York Wednesday to make it official. Though terms of the settlement were not disclosed, the "Post" reported that Porter will receive a lump sum of $150,000, plus $20,000 per month until Christian turns 21. In addition, Combs, 32, will pay for Christian's college and insurance costs as well as Porter's legal fees. Combs also took out a $2 million life insurance policy, to which Christian is beneficiary, the "Post" reported."

See: Pay-Out for 'P. Diddy' in Child Support - Sean \P. Diddy\ Combs : People.com

SAN FRANCISCO — "Just like thousands of other out-of-work Americans, Barry Bonds went to court to lighten the load of his child-support payments.

Bonds, having to make do without his $4.75 million salary during the baseball strike, obtained a court order cutting his $15,000-per-month child- and spousal-support payments in half."

See: Bonds Signs After Getting Break - Chicago Tribune

Now of course these are high profile entertainer/athletes but in reading these cases I ask the following question: How much it does it cost to raise a child?

Sources I've read state:

"A middle-income family may spend $234,900 to raise a child born in 2011 to the age of 18, a 3.5 percent increase in a year, according to a government report. Expenses for child care and education, transportation and food represented the biggest jumps, the U.S. Department of Agriculture said today in a report. Adjusted for anticipated inflation, a child in a middle-class family would cost $295,560 to raise, the department said."

See: http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20120614/FREE/120619948

If these numbers are correct, Barry Bonds and Sean "Puffy" Combs provide more than enough financial support for their kids. I believe folks of this caliber pay these extraordinary amounts because:

1) They can afford it

2) Its not just about sustaining the lifestyle of the child, its also sustaining the lifestyle of both the child and the mother.

If a woman is getting $15,000 per month even in the most affluent community in California the woman can live off of that and then some. I have to question whether luxury is essential in raising a child.

 

[Aristotle]

My mentioning of the mother spending child support money partially comes from the following:

"Sean Combs, a.k.a. "P.Diddy," agreed to pony up more than $4.5 million in child support for his youngest son, Christian, 3, the "New York Post" reported. The hip-hop star and the child's mother, model Kim Porter, reportedly reached a settlement on their own, and Porter and lawyers for both sides appeared in family court in New York Wednesday to make it official. Though terms of the settlement were not disclosed, the "Post" reported that Porter will receive a lump sum of $150,000, plus $20,000 per month until Christian turns 21. In addition, Combs, 32, will pay for Christian's college and insurance costs as well as Porter's legal fees. Combs also took out a $2 million life insurance policy, to which Christian is beneficiary, the "Post" reported."

See: Pay-Out for 'P. Diddy' in Child Support - Sean \P. Diddy\ Combs : People.com

SAN FRANCISCO — "Just like thousands of other out-of-work Americans, Barry Bonds went to court to lighten the load of his child-support payments.

Bonds, having to make do without his $4.75 million salary during the baseball strike, obtained a court order cutting his $15,000-per-month child- and spousal-support payments in half."

See: Bonds Signs After Getting Break - Chicago Tribune

Now of course these are high profile entertainer/athletes but in reading these cases I ask the following question: How much it does it cost to raise a child?

Sources I've read state:

"A middle-income family may spend $234,900 to raise a child born in 2011 to the age of 18, a 3.5 percent increase in a year, according to a government report. Expenses for child care and education, transportation and food represented the biggest jumps, the U.S. Department of Agriculture said today in a report. Adjusted for anticipated inflation, a child in a middle-class family would cost $295,560 to raise, the department said."

See: http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20120614/FREE/120619948

If these numbers are correct, Barry Bonds and Sean "Puffy" Combs provide more than enough financial support for their kids. I believe folks of this caliber pay these extraordinary amounts because:

1) They can afford it

2) Its not just about sustaining the lifestyle of the child, its also sustaining the lifestyle of both the child and the mother.

If a woman is getting $15,000 per month even in the most affluent community in California the woman can live off of that and then some. I have to question whether luxury is essential in raising a child.

 

[Aristotle]

1st, what you purpose is a huge burden on the state, added layers of government we dont need, intrusiveness/loss of privacy from both the government and the other parent, and the cost would be very high for something I see as unnecessary.

2nd, you seem to be under the impression non-custodial parents are often sending excessive amounts of money that need to be accounted for.

I seriously think you need to invest some time in researching how much it cost to care for a child, because your lack of knowledge in this topic is glaring.

I never indicated non-custodial parents are sending excessive amounts. I am aware that the court system looks at it from what both parents make. I am merely suggesting that if the non-custodial parent is paying child support, there is should be a cap, and a tracking of items being purchased. This elminates financial disputes as there is clear documentation of purchased items. This also eliminates a lot of the custody battles allowing the courts to be more available for other issues.

 

[Annie]

1st, what you purpose is a huge burden on the state, added layers of government we dont need, intrusiveness/loss of privacy from both the government and the other parent, and the cost would be very high for something I see as unnecessary.

2nd, you seem to be under the impression non-custodial parents are often sending excessive amounts of money that need to be accounted for.

I seriously think you need to invest some time in researching how much it cost to care for a child, because your lack of knowledge in this topic is glaring.

I never indicated non-custodial parents are sending excessive amounts. I am aware that the court system looks at it from what both parents make. I am merely suggesting that if the non-custodial parent is paying child support, there is should be a cap, and a tracking of items being purchased. This elminates financial disputes as there is clear documentation of purchased items. This also eliminates a lot of the custody battles allowing the courts to be more available for other issues.

Not to be argumentative here, but your position seems to favor the non-custodial parent. Often the reason they are non-custodial, or refused joint custody is for their controlling behavior before and during divorce process. You wish to give them a hammer, when they already have been found with problems.