Cheap Labor Conservatives Throughout US History

[SwimExpert]

I can't figure out one thing. Why is cheap labor such a bad thing?

Because 70% of US GDP comes from consumption, and low paid workers can't afford to buy what their labor helps to produce.

And? If you're an employer, cheap labor is a great thing. If you can get the work done at a cheap cost, why wouldn't you do so? Isn't the point of being in business to make as much money as you can? A worker who wants to make more money needs to find a way to get themselves a higher paycheck. It's that simple.

 

[SwimExpert]

I notice you didn't answer the question: When DID you stop beating your wife?

Start your own thread on wife beating if you find it therapeutic; in the meantime, try your best to defend "conservative values" in this one.
"Conservatives:

1. Supported the acquisition of foreign colonies in the wake of the Spanish-American war.
2. Supported the armed suppression of Filipino independence.
3. Opposed anti-trust legislation.
4. Opposed child labor laws.
5. Opposed universal free public education. Some of them still do.
6. Opposed literacy for African-American citizens, in particular.
7. Supported the legal theory of 'separate but equal', a sham that led to . . "

A Short History of Conservative Obstruction to Progress Conceptual Guerilla s Strategy And Tactics

First, you presented a fallacy of complex question. Now that you've been called out on it, you are presenting the fallacy of moving the goalpost.

 

[birddog]

The important thing now is how our country is doing here and in the world, and what are we doing to make things better. I'm a 60/40 guy when placing blame, and the dims have contributed 60% to our woes over the past 50 years. Extreme liberal/progressive thinking sucks!

 

[georgephillip]

A worker who wants to make more money needs to find a way to get themselves a higher paycheck. It's that simple.

It's not simple anymore. Not since US Capitalism has proven itself structurally incapable of providing a sufficient quantity of jobs that pay well enough for workers to survive.

 

[SwimExpert]

It's not simple anymore.

Yes it is.

Not since US Capitalism has proven itself structurally incapable of providing a sufficient quantity of jobs that pay well enough for workers to survive.

If this were true, then we should be seeing widespread deaths among the worker class directly attributable to poverty.

 

[georgephillip]

And? If you're an employer, cheap labor is a great thing. If you can get the work done at a cheap cost, why wouldn't you do so? Isn't the point of being in business to make as much money as you can?

Doesn't that depend on how you define the purpose of an economy?
"1. The first of these is that it is a disguised Government, of which the primary, though admittedly not the only, object is to impose upon the world a system of thought and action.

2. The second alternative has a certain similarity to the first, but is simpler. It assumes that the primary objective of the industrial system is the provision of employment.

3. And the third, which is essentially simpler still, in fact, so simple that it appears entirely unintelligible to the majority, is that the object of the industrial system is merely to provide goods and services."

Social credit - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[SwimExpert]

Doesn't that depend on how you define the purpose of an economy?

No, it depends on how you define the purpose of a business. The purpose of a business is to generate as much profit as you can.

 

[initforme]

"
"Simply walking away is a very bad idea in this day an age. Nearly every job, even very low level jobs, end up drawing reference checks. And the checks are far more in depth today than they used to be. Modern thinking is that people's personalities need to be judged and evaluated. You have to be "the right kind of person" to flip burgers at such and such particular fast food joint.
There is, of course, a certain degree of sense in evaluating an individual's personality fit. But most managers anymore seem to use it as an excuse for their own lack of managerial and leadership skills. In either event, nothing prevents someone from looking elsewhere if they're not happy with their job."

Yes you are probably right on this one. But every employee should be constantly searching for higher paying work behind his employers back. As soon as employment is secured its adios amigos. Walk away when you are most needed . Its empowering.

 

[georgephillip]

If this were true, then we should be seeing widespread deaths among the worker class directly attributable to poverty.

Without the social welfare safety net established during the Great Depression, poverty would be responsible for widespread deaths in the US today.
Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Bfgrn]

What is it about progress that scares conservatives the most?

"Cheap-labor conservatives have gotten into the habit of wrapping themselves in the flag, quoting Jefferson, and holding themselves out as defenders of 'American values'.

"In fact, from the very beginning, cheap-labor forces have opposed and obstructed realization of Jefferson’s dream of equality, democracy and social justice.

"Here is a short list of examples of cheap-labor conservatives obstructing of those values.

"The cheap-labor conservatives:

1. Supported George III in the American Revolution. Fully a third of the population of the colonies didn’t even want independence.
   
   
   
2. Supported protection for the institution of slavery in the Constitutional convention. This included the bizarre insistence that slaves be counted in determining slave state representation in Congress. Slaves were people according to conservative planters, but only for purposes of counting them. Those same interests also prevented regulation of the importation of slaves prior to 1808.

1. Opposed tariffs to protect American manufacturing. Reactionary southern planters failed to grasp the need to develop our own industrial base. They preferred to operate a slave labor driven cash crop economy for the simple reason that they – the wealthy planters that is – profited from economic underdevelopment."

A Short History of Conservative Obstruction to Progress Conceptual Guerilla s Strategy And Tactics

Give 'em hell Harry S. Truman had them pegged back in 1948. And that was when the GOP was a moderate party...

"Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage--the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They approve of social security benefits-so much so that they took them away from almost a million people. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. They believe in international trade--so much so that they crippled our reciprocal trade program, and killed our International Wheat Agreement. They favor the admission of displaced persons--but only within shameful racial and religious limitations.They consider electrical power a great blessing--but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They say TVA is wonderful--but we ought never to try it again. They condemn "cruelly high prices"--but fight to the death every effort to bring them down. They think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it."
President Harry S. Truman - October 13, 1948

 

[Stephanie]

so much hate for others

white people, conservatives, the Tea Party, Republicans. man how do you all store all that inside of you?

ugly

 

[Bfgrn]

"Conservatism, though a necessary element in any stable society, is not a social program; in its paternalistic, nationalistic and power adoring tendencies it is often closer to socialism than true liberalism; and with its traditionalistic, anti-intellectual, and often mystical propensities it will never, except in short periods of disillusionment, appeal to the young and all those others who believe that some changes are desirable if this world is to become a better place."
Friedrich August von Hayek-The Road to Serfdom

"In general, it can probably be said that the conservative does not object to coercion or arbitrary power so long as it is used for what he regards as the right purposes. He believes that if government is in the hands of decent men, it ought not to be too much restricted by rigid rules. Since he is essentially opportunist and lacks principles..."
Friedrich August von Hayek-Why I am Not a Conservative

"There is no reason why, in a society which has reached the general level of wealth ours has, (the certainty of a given minimum of sustenance) should not be guaranteed to all without endangering general freedom; that is: some minimum of food, shelter and clothing, sufficient to preserve health. Nor is there any reason why the state should not help to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance in providing for those common hazards of life against which few can make adequate provision."
Friedrich August von Hayek-The Road to Serfdom

 

[SwimExpert]

Yes you are probably right on this one. But every employee should be constantly searching for higher paying work behind his employers back. As soon as employment is secured its adios amigos. Walk away when you are most needed . Its empowering.

Eh, I think that's a little much. You shouldn't necessarily be constantly searching for higher paying work. What you should be doing is constantly searching for ways to maximize your income. That begins before you even accept a job. The majority of people nowadays fail to maximize their income because they start off with one of the most important failures. They fail to negotiate the highest pay they can possibly extract from a job. If you are successful at that first step, then you will start off on the winning side; you will be receiving the maximum pay you can reasonably hope to achieve and there will be no higher pay reasonably available until you develop yourself more.

Once a job has begun, a person should constantly be searching for ways to develop their marketable abilities such that they can earn raises in their current position and become qualified candidates for improved positions. Typically, that means that you first master your current position, and then seek expanded responsibilities that will help prepare you for new roles that are in line with your career goals.

 

[georgephillip]

No, it depends on how you define the purpose of a business. The purpose of a business is to generate as much profit as you can.

That works well in the short term for a lucky, hard-working few. In the long term, the externalities businesses inflict on the greater society in pursuit of maximum profit work to the disadvantage of a majority of citizens.

 

[initforme]

"
"Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage--the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They approve of social security benefits-so much so that they took them away from almost a million people. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. They believe in international trade--so much so that they crippled our reciprocal trade program, and killed our International Wheat Agreement. They favor the admission of displaced persons--but only within shameful racial and religious limitations.They consider electrical power a great blessing--but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They say TVA is wonderful--but we ought never to try it again. They condemn "cruelly high prices"--but fight to the death every effort to bring them down. They think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it."

Pretty much sums up how people see it. Hard to dispute it. Every attempt to improve the middle class is met with "no way" not unless the wealthy are given a tax break.

 

[initforme]

Searching for higher paying work is the sign of a smart employee... an employee that is loyal and works for a little less is scoffed at by management.

 

[SwimExpert]

If this were true, then we should be seeing widespread deaths among the worker class directly attributable to poverty.

Without the social welfare safety net established during the Great Depression, poverty would be responsible for widespread deaths in the US today.
Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

1 - Thanks for proving my point. Capitalism is not causing widespread deaths, as you claim it does.

2 - The social programs you reference could just as easily be said to be causing deeper poverty and income/wealth inequality. Just look at Walmart. They leverage social programs to their benefit, to keep their payroll costs down. These welfare programs are expensive. Paying for them requires substantial taxation. The poor today pay significant taxes to pay for those programs, which they did not have to pay before.

3 - Your entire position is nothing but an assumption. You are blaming capitalism for no reason other than your disapproval of capitalism. Have you considered that perhaps the problem is that too many people are not fully engaging in capitalist activities? They're not reaping the rewards because they're not playing the game. No wonder they're poor.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

What is it about progress that scares conservatives the most?

"Cheap-labor conservatives have gotten into the habit of wrapping themselves in the flag, quoting Jefferson, and holding themselves out as defenders of 'American values'.

"In fact, from the very beginning, cheap-labor forces have opposed and obstructed realization of Jefferson’s dream of equality, democracy and social justice.

"Here is a short list of examples of cheap-labor conservatives obstructing of those values.

"The cheap-labor conservatives:

1. Supported George III in the American Revolution. Fully a third of the population of the colonies didn’t even want independence.
   
   
   
2. Supported protection for the institution of slavery in the Constitutional convention. This included the bizarre insistence that slaves be counted in determining slave state representation in Congress. Slaves were people according to conservative planters, but only for purposes of counting them. Those same interests also prevented regulation of the importation of slaves prior to 1808.

1. Opposed tariffs to protect American manufacturing. Reactionary southern planters failed to grasp the need to develop our own industrial base. They preferred to operate a slave labor driven cash crop economy for the simple reason that they – the wealthy planters that is – profited from economic underdevelopment."

A Short History of Conservative Obstruction to Progress Conceptual Guerilla s Strategy And Tactics

Slavery and civil rights were championed by the southern dems.

2. The third that did not want independence are all currently living in the northeast.

 

[SwimExpert]

Searching for higher paying work is the sign of a smart employee... an employee that is loyal and works for a little less is scoffed at by management.

Not really. Only shitty management would be so judgmental. And if management is shitty, then they're most likely inclined to value a person who gives loyalty to the job at the expense of his own interests. I think that what you should have said is that good management respects an employees willingness to advocate for their self interests, and will utilize that energy to the mutual benefit of both sides. As a manager I realize that the employment relationship is mutual and is best maintained through win-win arrangements. An employee who has ambitions is an employee who will be motivated to do their best and possibly be a long term asset.

 

[georgephillip]

1 - Thanks for proving my point. Capitalism is not causing widespread deaths, as you claim it does.

My question is still why Cheap Labor Conservatives opposed the social safety net that prevents the deaths capitalism causes?
"Opposed agricultural subsidies, the Tennessee Valley Authority, Rural Electrification, and almost all of the rest of the New Deal.

1. Opposed Social Security.
2. Opposed the Fair Labor Standards Act establishing the eight hour work day and overtime pay.
3. Opposed the National Labor Relations Act guaranteeing workers the right to collectively bargain."

A Short History of Conservative Obstruction to Progress Conceptual Guerilla s Strategy And Tactics