CC This Is For You!

[etoile]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
Try this:

Iraq becomes the leading economic, cultural country in the Middle East. Having the 2nd largest oil reserves (which they are in total control of as we speak), and a new found freedom they become a democratic powerhouse. Their children are educated, they already have some fantastic sites, tourism blossoms, they rebuild their country. Life is good, and the Iraqis are happy.

How legit will Zarqawi and Bin Laden look in the eyes of the so called Arab Street?
How will Assad keep the lid on his people when they see with their own eyes how great the Iraqis have it and the Syrians don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.
How will the Mullahs keep the new generation of Iranians down?

This is why we must suceeed in Iraq.

The tyrannical leaders of Syria, Iran, etc will collapse under the pressure brought on by their own populaces.
Instead of having these oppressed populations signing up for martyrdom operations, they will see they have something to live for.
That's what the War on Terror is all about.

Agreed. However, consider the Societ union, which exited for 70 years. There, they did everything to make people see how horrible capitalism was. Little were fooled. However, there was still too much fear to withstand this false porpaganda. Only when Gorbachev came did people start voicing their opinions. Officially, udner Stalin, Khruschev, and Brezhnev, we hated America. There are even anecdotes about slogans like "we will catch up to and get ahead of America" and "America- falling into a bottomless pit". Here's one:
"We will catch up to and get ahead of America falling into a bottomless pit."

But 3 generations in my family were taught in textbooks about how bad it was in the US, and the suppression of information worked until 1990.

 

[etoile]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
What are you talking about communism with computers? Communism is inherantly flawed. It was created by a moron who didnt understand the simplest ideas of creating wealth.

Communism is definately flawed. I'll remind CC that communism was made up by a human, and not just any human: Carl Marx. Read a little about Mr. Marx and find out if you would trust any philosophy coming out of the mouth of a man like him directly- unemployed, parasitical, etc.
Communism doesn't work because it assumes that humans will lay aside their sense of self and personal want. Absolute communism didn't work, but how can partial communism work? What would establish heirarchy: your generosity, your wealth, your education, your physical appearence? Communism doesn't work because it does not give people the opportunity to rise, to excel, to compete.
According to Ayn Rand, the ideal economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. The ideal human is completely self-sufficient; he doesn't need other people. I don't know if agree with that entirely, but I don't think a society based entirely on unity and goodwill is possible: you will always have the "sore thumb," the nonconformist, who will ruin the whole system for you.

 

[etoile]

Originally posted by crazy canadian
How did I do that rtwng? Like I said, i'm not a socialist or a capitalist. And don't worry, with my lack of education on politics, I won't be running for leader anytime soon. If you can convince me that capitalism will work on it's own, not just to improve America, but the entire world, WITHOUT clearing all the socialists off the face of the planet, I will become a capitalist. But, how will capitalism ever take over? AND benefit all the people in the world?

I know I am posting for the 5000th time in a row, but I read and I answer as I go along. Capitalism would work thus: every man for himself. You are responsible for your own success. Societal heirarchy would be a meritocracy. Simple as that.
You ask how it can help the world? It forces people to act on their own behalf, not fall back on someone else and hope that everything will come on its own. Another thing: consider the alternatives.

 

[crazy canadian]

Originally posted by etoile
The scary thing is, there is no known way of doing this.
When life is not a value in society, it's much harder to reckon with them.
Forget the life of other people; when your own life is not valued in society- when you don't strive to preserve your own life- much of what we take as a given becomes obsolete. We always go on the assumption that people want to preserve their lives, that they want to grow, thrive and succeed. We assume that people want peace. Once you encounter a society that doesn't live under these principles, you will have much more trouble.
And suicidal terrorists are just such a society.

Thanks, etoile. Can I call you Star?

 

[crazy canadian]

Originally posted by etoile
Communism is definately flawed. I'll remind CC that communism was made up by a human, and not just any human: Carl Marx. Read a little about Mr. Marx and find out if you would trust any philosophy coming out of the mouth of a man like him directly- unemployed, parasitical, etc.
Communism doesn't work because it assumes that humans will lay aside their sense of self and personal want. Absolute communism didn't work, but how can partial communism work? What would establish heirarchy: your generosity, your wealth, your education, your physical appearence? Communism doesn't work because it does not give people the opportunity to rise, to excel, to compete.
According to Ayn Rand, the ideal economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. The ideal human is completely self-sufficient; he doesn't need other people. I don't know if agree with that entirely, but I don't think a society based entirely on unity and goodwill is possible: you will always have the "sore thumb," the nonconformist, who will ruin the whole system for you.

I agree with you. Communism sucks. But I don't think capitalism can do it on it's own, unless people stop thinking of the less fortunate as wanting to be less fortunate, or in some cases deserving to be less fortunate... yikes.
Humans succomb to many things in the face of helplessness. We should all be able to be strong, in a perfect world, but if you take away the gov't, which is in their eyes the only ones willing to help them, you send out a bad message. (I know the gov't doesn't disappear completely in capitalism)
There has to be some level of certainty supplied that gets people to believe in capitalism.

Perhaps we should organize a list of charities, or even create some new ones, and then decide what it would take in donations to provide assistance to those who need it. Emphasize the need for community. Hold self-esteem, self-confidence seminars, convince people they too can make it in a capitalist world...
If people can see how it would work, then perhaps more people would believe in capitalism. Has this already been done?

 

[MrMarbles]

Originally posted by etoile
Communism is definately flawed. I'll remind CC that communism was made up by a human, and not just any human: Carl Marx. Read a little about Mr. Marx and find out if you would trust any philosophy coming out of the mouth of a man like him directly- unemployed, parasitical, etc.
Communism doesn't work because it assumes that humans will lay aside their sense of self and personal want. Absolute communism didn't work, but how can partial communism work? What would establish heirarchy: your generosity, your wealth, your education, your physical appearence? Communism doesn't work because it does not give people the opportunity to rise, to excel, to compete.
According to Ayn Rand, the ideal economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. The ideal human is completely self-sufficient; he doesn't need other people. I don't know if agree with that entirely, but I don't think a society based entirely on unity and goodwill is possible: you will always have the "sore thumb," the nonconformist, who will ruin the whole system for you.

The problme with ultra-capitalism is it's a win, lose game. For every 'winner' though, there is 100 'losers'.

These poeple aren't 'losers', they hard working, decent people, who just get the short end of the stick, and pay for it the rest of their lives, while someone else gets rich off their hard work.

If everyone was to start on a level playing field, it would be better. The lazy people will lose, and the hard workers win. The problem is money, it makes second-class citizens out of a large chunck of society.

"Spread the wealth"

I still believe someone should be paid their worth. But why should a movie star, get paid more then a doctor? Or popstar over a cop?

The haves should help the have nots. Yes people are greedy, and some will not conform, but we should at least strive for a better society where everyone gets the same kick at the can.

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by MrMarbles
The problme with ultra-capitalism is it's a win, lose game. For every 'winner' though, there is 100 'losers'.

These poeple aren't 'losers', they hard working, decent people, who just get the short end of the stick, and pay for it the rest of their lives, while someone else gets rich off their hard work.

If everyone was to start on a level playing field, it would be better. The lazy people will lose, and the hard workers win. The problem is money, it makes second-class citizens out of a large chunck of society.

"Spread the wealth"

I still believe someone should be paid their worth. But why should a movie star, get paid more then a doctor? Or popstar over a cop?

The haves should help the have nots. Yes people are greedy, and some will not conform, but we should at least strive for a better society where everyone gets the same kick at the can.

You assume that money = happiness. You are wrong!

 

[Said1]

Originally posted by dilloduck
You assume that money = happiness. You are wrong!

How true! I love my job, but it the pay is shit. I do it because I like it, and the choice will always be mine.

 

[fuzzykitten99]

Originally posted by MrMarbles
The problme with ultra-capitalism is it's a win, lose game. For every 'winner' though, there is 100 'losers'.

These poeple aren't 'losers', they hard working, decent people, who just get the short end of the stick, and pay for it the rest of their lives, while someone else gets rich off their hard work.

If everyone was to start on a level playing field, it would be better. The lazy people will lose, and the hard workers win. The problem is money, it makes second-class citizens out of a large chunck of society.

"Spread the wealth"

I still believe someone should be paid their worth. But why should a movie star, get paid more then a doctor? Or popstar over a cop?

The haves should help the have nots. Yes people are greedy, and some will not conform, but we should at least strive for a better society where everyone gets the same kick at the can.

I would prefer that doctors and cops etc. got paid more, but that is not reality. Pop stars and movie stars get paid more because more people buy their movies and music per day than do people go to the dr. per week. Plus, if you paid the cops millions of dollars for a salary, imagine what that would do to your taxes.

It would be nice if everything were equal, but then what would be the point of doing a good job at something? What would be the point of trying to invent new things?

 

[crazy canadian]

Originally posted by MrMarbles
The problme with ultra-capitalism is it's a win, lose game. For every 'winner' though, there is 100 'losers'.

These poeple aren't 'losers', they hard working, decent people, who just get the short end of the stick, and pay for it the rest of their lives, while someone else gets rich off their hard work.

If everyone was to start on a level playing field, it would be better. The lazy people will lose, and the hard workers win. The problem is money, it makes second-class citizens out of a large chunck of society.

"Spread the wealth"

I still believe someone should be paid their worth. But why should a movie star, get paid more then a doctor? Or popstar over a cop?

The haves should help the have nots. Yes people are greedy, and some will not conform, but we should at least strive for a better society where everyone gets the same kick at the can.

That sounds like something I've posted before...
but then someone said something about motivation and self-responsibility and I realized they don't fit into the socialist equation so well.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by fuzzykitten99

It would be nice if everything were equal, but then what would be the point of doing a good job at something? What would be the point of trying to invent new things?

The reds are coming.

 

[Said1]

Originally posted by fuzzykitten99
Pop stars and movie stars get paid more because more people buy their movies and music per day than do people go to the dr. per week.

They provide a product, we buy it - sort of supply, demand, profit You have to look at what they give up too, their lives are not their own. Again, this is their choice.

 

[crazy canadian]

I have an idea;
what if we devise a charity system that is so efficient, and so complex that covers all the bases and gets people exactly where they need to be -motivationally- and takes such a burden off the gov't's social assistance costs, that if you sign up to support it with 5% of your wages, the gov't gives you 15% of your taxes back.
I would sign up. Do you think it's feasible?
It would take a lot of hard work that the capitalists claim they aren't afraid of....

 

[Said1]

Originally posted by crazy canadian
I have an idea;
what if we devise a charity system that is so efficient, and so complex that covers all the bases and gets people exactly where they need to be -motivationally- and takes such a burden off the gov't's social assistance costs, that if you sign up to support it with 5% of your wages, the gov't gives you 15% of your taxes back.
I would sign up. Do you think it's feasible?
It would take a lot of hard work that the capitalists claim they aren't afraid of....

Try working with these people first - try motivating them, then get back to me

 

[crazy canadian]

I know a guy who's rich now off of selling motivational videos to companies... that stuff really seems to work.
You just need someone to talk nice to ya

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by crazy canadian
I have an idea;
what if we devise a charity system that is so efficient, and so complex that covers all the bases and gets people exactly where they need to be -motivationally- and takes such a burden off the gov't's social assistance costs, that if you sign up to support it with 5% of your wages, the gov't gives you 15% of your taxes back.
I would sign up. Do you think it's feasible?
It would take a lot of hard work that the capitalists claim they aren't afraid of....

THe best motivator is your back up against a wall.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
THe best motivator is your back up against a wall.

Nothing like the threat of handing your job to someone else to motivate you to produce, also.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Nothing like the threat of handing your job to someone else to motivate you to produce, also.

Yep. That's life.

"Utopia's not an option." -- John Stossel. A personal hero. Started off an ideological lib, going after companies and such. Then he saw the government was the real villain. Now he's a small government libertarian. You should look this guy up, flasher, and read more.

 

[Said1]

Originally posted by crazy canadian
I know a guy who's rich now off of selling motivational videos to companies... that stuff really seems to work.
You just need someone to talk nice to ya

Nothing more than a diet program. People stick to it for awhile, then go back to their sloppy ways. The few who manage to change for good are few and far between.

 

[MrMarbles]

Originally posted by dilloduck
You assume that money = happiness. You are wrong!

I don't assume money=happiness.

I assume that money makes the world go round. And alot of people don't get nearly what they disverve.