Cardinal Raymond Burke: Gays, Remarried Catholics Are Just As Sinful As Murderers

[Brian_1349]

Cardinal Raymond Burke Gays Remarried Catholics Are Just As Sinful As Murderers

You've got 5 seconds to explain why we let these people dictate their political will. Catholic church is outdated in its conservatism. Pope Francis is a good example of what can be done to improve its image but it is still not enough. It has nothing to do with religious freedom anymore, it is about prejudice and imposing your values on someone who doesn't share them.
Is it that hard to find a balance between ones' religious feelings and others' sexual freedom?

 

[NYcarbineer]

If we allow people to use a religious belief, or what they profess to be a religious belief, as some sort of trump card/magic wand - pick your own metaphor - to overturn any law they don't like,

then we will have reached anarchy.

 

[Statistikhengst]

I think it's a matter of church dogma over the human heart, in this case.

 

[Ravi]

He should be defrocked.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Then why don't we hear of any bakeries refusing to bake cakes for Catholics getting remarried?

 

[Kondor3]

Cardinal Raymond Burke Gays Remarried Catholics Are Just As Sinful As Murderers ...

That's his right, to give voice to such opinions, as a leader of his church.

...You've got 5 seconds to explain why we let these people dictate their political will...

Five seconds? That's mighty White of you.

And who is "we"?

Catholics frequently take a much longer-term view of moral issues, and today's present configuration of relaxed morals, codified as law, are merely the configuration du jour, and can legitimately be viewed as johnny-come-lately developments which may or may not withstand the test of time, in a secular legal sense, which does not affect their moral implications.

...Catholic church is outdated in its conservatism...

That is one opinion.

Another opinion is that Righteousness involves prohibitions against sexual deviancy and perversity, and that our present 'relaxed morals' are not permanent, but aberrations on the historical time line that will be overturned soon enough, as history measures time, and that speaking out against such degeneracy is the obligation of such church leadership.

Core aspects of Right and Wrong are relatively Timeless, and do not necessarily change with the times, despite the best efforts of those seeking to legitimize and empower such deviant behaviors.

Rather than being 'outdated', the opposing viewpoint is that it is merely 'timeless' and unwavering in its opposition to despicable sinfulness.

...Pope Francis is a good example of what can be done to improve its image but it is still not enough...

Francis is a good man, but a great many Catholics, world-wide, do not agree with his position regarding homosexuality and other perverse and deviant behaviors.

...It has nothing to do with religious freedom anymore, it is about prejudice and imposing your values on someone who doesn't share them...

It has EVERYTHING to do with Religious Freedom, when one's Religion declares homosexuality to be filthy, unclean and perverse, and an aberration in the eyes of God and Man and Nature, and when one's Religion - by scripture, dogma and/or interpretation - prohibits one from associating more tnan necessary with filthy and unclean and perverse sinners.

...Is it that hard to find a balance between ones' religious feelings and others' sexual freedom?

Yes.

There can be no compromise with Wickedness.

===========================================

Or so goes the mindset.

Hope that helps.

 

[Kondor3]

If we allow people to use a religious belief, or what they profess to be a religious belief, as some sort of trump card/magic wand - pick your own metaphor - to overturn any law they don't like,

then we will have reached anarchy.

Hardly.

We did just fine, for centuries, without conceding the playing field to the Tyranny of the Three Percent.

We'll continue to do just fine, for centuries to come, as this temporary aberration and victory of the Gay Mafia is overturned, suddenly, or bit by bit, as we see unfolding with Roe v. Wade, forty years or more after its inception.

Time will sort this out, one way or the other, and, the present state of affairs is an extremely fragile and change-able thing.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If we allow people to use a religious belief, or what they profess to be a religious belief, as some sort of trump card/magic wand - pick your own metaphor - to overturn any law they don't like,

then we will have reached anarchy.

Hardly.

We did just fine, for centuries, without conceding the playing field to the Tyranny of the Three Percent.

We'll continue to do just fine, for centuries to come, as this temporary aberration and victory of the Gay Mafia is overturned, suddenly, or bit by bit, as we see unfolding with Roe v. Wade, forty years or more after its inception.

Time will sort this out, one way or the other, and, the present state of affairs is an extremely fragile and change-able thing.

We didn't do just fine for centuries.

 

[Mac1958]

I think it's a matter of church dogma over the human heart, in this case.

Yeah. This is yet another example of how commitment to an ideology distorts rational, intelligent thought.

Thing is, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he literally equated murderers and gays, down to his very core.

.

 

[Kondor3]

If we allow people to use a religious belief, or what they profess to be a religious belief, as some sort of trump card/magic wand - pick your own metaphor - to overturn any law they don't like,

then we will have reached anarchy.

Hardly.

We did just fine, for centuries, without conceding the playing field to the Tyranny of the Three Percent.

We'll continue to do just fine, for centuries to come, as this temporary aberration and victory of the Gay Mafia is overturned, suddenly, or bit by bit, as we see unfolding with Roe v. Wade, forty years or more after its inception.

Time will sort this out, one way or the other, and, the present state of affairs is an extremely fragile and change-able thing.

We didn't do just fine for centuries.

Sure we did.

Those perverts were kept stuffed into the closet, where they belong.

The other 97% didn't give 'em a single thought, and got along just fine without 'em.

Just fine.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If we allow people to use a religious belief, or what they profess to be a religious belief, as some sort of trump card/magic wand - pick your own metaphor - to overturn any law they don't like,

then we will have reached anarchy.

Hardly.

We did just fine, for centuries, without conceding the playing field to the Tyranny of the Three Percent.

We'll continue to do just fine, for centuries to come, as this temporary aberration and victory of the Gay Mafia is overturned, suddenly, or bit by bit, as we see unfolding with Roe v. Wade, forty years or more after its inception.

Time will sort this out, one way or the other, and, the present state of affairs is an extremely fragile and change-able thing.

We didn't do just fine for centuries.

Sure we did.

Those perverts were kept stuffed into the closet, where they belong.

The other 97% didn't give 'em a single thought, and got along just fine without 'em.

Just fine.

Well, that's okay if you're a bigot who doesn't believe in civil rights, but we are nation founded on civil rights.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Cardinal Raymond Burke Gays Remarried Catholics Are Just As Sinful As Murderers

You've got 5 seconds to explain why we let these people dictate their political will. Catholic church is outdated in its conservatism. Pope Francis is a good example of what can be done to improve its image but it is still not enough. It has nothing to do with religious freedom anymore, it is about prejudice and imposing your values on someone who doesn't share them.
Is it that hard to find a balance between ones' religious feelings and others' sexual freedom?

What a fucking idiot.

Murder is the only unpardonable sin because to be absolved and forgiven you must seek forgiveness from the one you've sinned against. Can't ask a dead person to forgive you.

CAN ask for forgiveness in every other instance though.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"You've got 5 seconds to explain why we let these people dictate their political will."

We don't, which is why we have a First Amendment, to prevent such ignorance and hate from being codified in secular law.

 

[Kondor3]

If we allow people to use a religious belief, or what they profess to be a religious belief, as some sort of trump card/magic wand - pick your own metaphor - to overturn any law they don't like,

then we will have reached anarchy.

Hardly.

We did just fine, for centuries, without conceding the playing field to the Tyranny of the Three Percent.

We'll continue to do just fine, for centuries to come, as this temporary aberration and victory of the Gay Mafia is overturned, suddenly, or bit by bit, as we see unfolding with Roe v. Wade, forty years or more after its inception.

Time will sort this out, one way or the other, and, the present state of affairs is an extremely fragile and change-able thing.

We didn't do just fine for centuries.

Sure we did.

Those perverts were kept stuffed into the closet, where they belong.

The other 97% didn't give 'em a single thought, and got along just fine without 'em.

Just fine.

Well, that's okay if you're a bigot who doesn't believe in civil rights, but we are nation founded on civil rights.

So, every American who lived in the time prior to the advent of the LGBT movement was a bigot?

Hardly.

 

[Jackson]

Cardinal Raymond Burke Gays Remarried Catholics Are Just As Sinful As Murderers

You've got 5 seconds to explain why we let these people dictate their political will. Catholic church is outdated in its conservatism. Pope Francis is a good example of what can be done to improve its image but it is still not enough. It has nothing to do with religious freedom anymore, it is about prejudice and imposing your values on someone who doesn't share them.
Is it that hard to find a balance between ones' religious feelings and others' sexual freedom?

And that, my friend is what is wrong with organized religion.

 

[Brian_1349]

That

Cardinal Raymond Burke Gays Remarried Catholics Are Just As Sinful As Murderers ...

That's his right, to give voice to such opinions, as a leader of his church.

...You've got 5 seconds to explain why we let these people dictate their political will...

Five seconds? That's mighty White of you.

And who is "we"?

Catholics frequently take a much longer-term view of moral issues, and today's present configuration of relaxed morals, codified as law, are merely the configuration du jour, and can legitimately be viewed as johnny-come-lately developments which may or may not withstand the test of time, in a secular legal sense, which does not affect their moral implications.

...Catholic church is outdated in its conservatism...

That is one opinion.

Another opinion is that Righteousness involves prohibitions against sexual deviancy and perversity, and that our present 'relaxed morals' are not permanent, but aberrations on the historical time line that will be overturned soon enough, as history measures time, and that speaking out against such degeneracy is the obligation of such church leadership.

Core aspects of Right and Wrong are relatively Timeless, and do not necessarily change with the times, despite the best efforts of those seeking to legitimize and empower such deviant behaviors.

Rather than being 'outdated', the opposing viewpoint is that it is merely 'timeless' and unwavering in its opposition to despicable sinfulness.

...Pope Francis is a good example of what can be done to improve its image but it is still not enough...

Francis is a good man, but a great many Catholics, world-wide, do not agree with his position regarding homosexuality and other perverse and deviant behaviors.

...It has nothing to do with religious freedom anymore, it is about prejudice and imposing your values on someone who doesn't share them...

It has EVERYTHING to do with Religious Freedom, when one's Religion declares homosexuality to be filthy, unclean and perverse, and an aberration in the eyes of God and Man and Nature, and when one's Religion - by scripture, dogma and/or interpretation - prohibits one from associating more tnan necessary with filthy and unclean and perverse sinners.

...Is it that hard to find a balance between ones' religious feelings and others' sexual freedom?

Yes.

There can be no compromise with Wickedness.

===========================================

Or so goes the mindset.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the long and profound post, sir.

That was just my sarcasm in the beginning, I am not forcing anyone to join the dispute.

I've got only one question to ask. If Catholic church believes present-day morals are deviant how come its supreme leader supports gay marriage abandoning traditional understanding of Christian ethics? Catholic church betrayed its own standards or tried to fool the public by showing their mask of tolerance. It is one or the other.

 

[Ravi]

That

Cardinal Raymond Burke Gays Remarried Catholics Are Just As Sinful As Murderers ...

That's his right, to give voice to such opinions, as a leader of his church.

...You've got 5 seconds to explain why we let these people dictate their political will...

Five seconds? That's mighty White of you.

And who is "we"?

Catholics frequently take a much longer-term view of moral issues, and today's present configuration of relaxed morals, codified as law, are merely the configuration du jour, and can legitimately be viewed as johnny-come-lately developments which may or may not withstand the test of time, in a secular legal sense, which does not affect their moral implications.

...Catholic church is outdated in its conservatism...

That is one opinion.

Another opinion is that Righteousness involves prohibitions against sexual deviancy and perversity, and that our present 'relaxed morals' are not permanent, but aberrations on the historical time line that will be overturned soon enough, as history measures time, and that speaking out against such degeneracy is the obligation of such church leadership.

Core aspects of Right and Wrong are relatively Timeless, and do not necessarily change with the times, despite the best efforts of those seeking to legitimize and empower such deviant behaviors.

Rather than being 'outdated', the opposing viewpoint is that it is merely 'timeless' and unwavering in its opposition to despicable sinfulness.

...Pope Francis is a good example of what can be done to improve its image but it is still not enough...

Francis is a good man, but a great many Catholics, world-wide, do not agree with his position regarding homosexuality and other perverse and deviant behaviors.

...It has nothing to do with religious freedom anymore, it is about prejudice and imposing your values on someone who doesn't share them...

It has EVERYTHING to do with Religious Freedom, when one's Religion declares homosexuality to be filthy, unclean and perverse, and an aberration in the eyes of God and Man and Nature, and when one's Religion - by scripture, dogma and/or interpretation - prohibits one from associating more tnan necessary with filthy and unclean and perverse sinners.

...Is it that hard to find a balance between ones' religious feelings and others' sexual freedom?

Yes.

There can be no compromise with Wickedness.

===========================================

Or so goes the mindset.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the long and profound post, sir.

That was just my sarcasm in the beginning, I am not forcing anyone to join the dispute.

I've got only one question to ask. If Catholic church believes present-day morals are deviant how come its supreme leader supports gay marriage abandoning traditional understanding of Christian ethics? Catholic church betrayed its own standards or tried to fool the public by showing their mask of tolerance. It is one or the other.

The pope doesn't support gay marriage.

 

[Brian_1349]

If we allow people to use a religious belief, or what they profess to be a religious belief, as some sort of trump card/magic wand - pick your own metaphor - to overturn any law they don't like,

then we will have reached anarchy.

The same applies to unstoppable liberal activists. The only difference between organized religion and present day liberalism is pervasive social support of the latter one. People somehow believe their stance is the only acceptable position on gays and gay marriage. I am not advocating Catholic Church or gay supporters, let's be neutral.

 

[Kondor3]

That

Cardinal Raymond Burke Gays Remarried Catholics Are Just As Sinful As Murderers ...

That's his right, to give voice to such opinions, as a leader of his church.

...You've got 5 seconds to explain why we let these people dictate their political will...

Five seconds? That's mighty White of you.

And who is "we"?

Catholics frequently take a much longer-term view of moral issues, and today's present configuration of relaxed morals, codified as law, are merely the configuration du jour, and can legitimately be viewed as johnny-come-lately developments which may or may not withstand the test of time, in a secular legal sense, which does not affect their moral implications.

...Catholic church is outdated in its conservatism...

That is one opinion.

Another opinion is that Righteousness involves prohibitions against sexual deviancy and perversity, and that our present 'relaxed morals' are not permanent, but aberrations on the historical time line that will be overturned soon enough, as history measures time, and that speaking out against such degeneracy is the obligation of such church leadership.

Core aspects of Right and Wrong are relatively Timeless, and do not necessarily change with the times, despite the best efforts of those seeking to legitimize and empower such deviant behaviors.

Rather than being 'outdated', the opposing viewpoint is that it is merely 'timeless' and unwavering in its opposition to despicable sinfulness.

...Pope Francis is a good example of what can be done to improve its image but it is still not enough...

Francis is a good man, but a great many Catholics, world-wide, do not agree with his position regarding homosexuality and other perverse and deviant behaviors.

...It has nothing to do with religious freedom anymore, it is about prejudice and imposing your values on someone who doesn't share them...

It has EVERYTHING to do with Religious Freedom, when one's Religion declares homosexuality to be filthy, unclean and perverse, and an aberration in the eyes of God and Man and Nature, and when one's Religion - by scripture, dogma and/or interpretation - prohibits one from associating more tnan necessary with filthy and unclean and perverse sinners.

...Is it that hard to find a balance between ones' religious feelings and others' sexual freedom?

Yes.

There can be no compromise with Wickedness.

===========================================

Or so goes the mindset.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the long and profound post, sir.

That was just my sarcasm in the beginning, I am not forcing anyone to join the dispute.

I've got only one question to ask. If Catholic church believes present-day morals are deviant how come its supreme leader supports gay marriage abandoning traditional understanding of Christian ethics? Catholic church betrayed its own standards or tried to fool the public by showing their mask of tolerance. It is one or the other.

Good question.

And I'm not sure that I've got a viable answer.

What comes to mind, at first glance, is that there is a diversity of opinion within the Roman Catholic Church, as to the nature of homosexuality.

It would seem that a great many folks in both the Church hierarchy and its rank-and-file parishioners are not happy with Francis' pronouncements.

Something that's bound to happen from time to time, when your organization boasts one billion members or more, world-wide.

And then that opens up that whole can of worms about Papal Infallibility.

At some point, the Catholic Church probably will speak with once voice on the subject.

It may simply require some years or decades before the fur stops flying, and they sort-out what they want to do about it.

Meanwhile, the message remains diverse, and divided.

 

[Kondor3]

That

Cardinal Raymond Burke Gays Remarried Catholics Are Just As Sinful As Murderers ...

That's his right, to give voice to such opinions, as a leader of his church.

...You've got 5 seconds to explain why we let these people dictate their political will...

Five seconds? That's mighty White of you.

And who is "we"?

Catholics frequently take a much longer-term view of moral issues, and today's present configuration of relaxed morals, codified as law, are merely the configuration du jour, and can legitimately be viewed as johnny-come-lately developments which may or may not withstand the test of time, in a secular legal sense, which does not affect their moral implications.

...Catholic church is outdated in its conservatism...

That is one opinion.

Another opinion is that Righteousness involves prohibitions against sexual deviancy and perversity, and that our present 'relaxed morals' are not permanent, but aberrations on the historical time line that will be overturned soon enough, as history measures time, and that speaking out against such degeneracy is the obligation of such church leadership.

Core aspects of Right and Wrong are relatively Timeless, and do not necessarily change with the times, despite the best efforts of those seeking to legitimize and empower such deviant behaviors.

Rather than being 'outdated', the opposing viewpoint is that it is merely 'timeless' and unwavering in its opposition to despicable sinfulness.

...Pope Francis is a good example of what can be done to improve its image but it is still not enough...

Francis is a good man, but a great many Catholics, world-wide, do not agree with his position regarding homosexuality and other perverse and deviant behaviors.

...It has nothing to do with religious freedom anymore, it is about prejudice and imposing your values on someone who doesn't share them...

It has EVERYTHING to do with Religious Freedom, when one's Religion declares homosexuality to be filthy, unclean and perverse, and an aberration in the eyes of God and Man and Nature, and when one's Religion - by scripture, dogma and/or interpretation - prohibits one from associating more tnan necessary with filthy and unclean and perverse sinners.

...Is it that hard to find a balance between ones' religious feelings and others' sexual freedom?

Yes.

There can be no compromise with Wickedness.

===========================================

Or so goes the mindset.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the long and profound post, sir.

That was just my sarcasm in the beginning, I am not forcing anyone to join the dispute.

I've got only one question to ask. If Catholic church believes present-day morals are deviant how come its supreme leader supports gay marriage abandoning traditional understanding of Christian ethics? Catholic church betrayed its own standards or tried to fool the public by showing their mask of tolerance. It is one or the other.

The pope doesn't support gay marriage.

True.

But he does seem to support a live-and-let-live policy, which, of course, was the precursor to the mess that we find ourselves in now.

There are a fair number of Catholics, no doubt, who say that any compromise along those lines, opens-up the door to bad outcomes, later.