turzovka
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- Nov 20, 2012
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Reiterating my own skepticism, I just do not find the expertsâ and the doubtersâ explanations for Near Death Experiences to be the least bit credible. Even if they say these people had these fantastic âdreamsâ or visions while their brain was dead and without oxygen, how does it follow they also were above their body reporting on events they could never have seen if they were on the operating table? Does the dying brain also allow them to rise above their bodies and do things a lively brain could never do? None of it makes sense.
These two articles are both insightful. The second one speaks of near death experiences of Buddhists and others in Eastern relgions. Note the distinctions between what they experienced and what many Christians experienced. The conclusion here is that there is life after death, plain and simple. And strong evidence for who God is as well.
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http://www.skeptiko.com/eeg-expert-on-near-death-experience/
90. EEG Expert Canât Explain Near Death Experience Data⌠and, Dr. Penny Sartori Finds More Than Hallucinations in NDE Accounts
January 4th, 2010
For near death experience skeptics, medical evidence of a flat EEG during an out of body experience has always been a stumbling block. After all, a brain dead patient canât hallucinate. But, does a flat EEG really mean no brain activity? NDE doubters have claimed activity deep inside the brain, beyond the reach of EEG instruments, must account for the complex ârealer than realâ experiences reported by those who briefly pass into the afterlife. Now, University of Toledo Neuroscience researcher, and EEG expert, Dr. John Greenfield explains why this claim doesnât hold up.
âItâs very unlikely that a hypoperfused brain [someone with no blood flow to the brain], with no evidence of electrical activity could generate NDEs. Human studies as well as animal studies have typically shown very little brain perfusion [blood flow] or glucose utilization when the EEG is flat. There are deep brain areas involved in generating memories that might still operate at some very reduced level during cardiac arrest, but of course any subcortically generated activity canât be brought to consciousness without at least one functioning cerebral hemisphere. So even if there were some way that NDEs were generated during the hypoxic state [while the brain is shut off from oxygen], you would not experience them until reperfusion [blood flow] allowed you to dream them or wake up and talk about themâ, Greenfield stated.
With near death experience cases making there way into the, New England Journal of Medicine, Journal of Psychiatry, and other major medical journals, NDE doubters have looked to the timing of patient memories as a way of explaining this unexplainable phenomena. If memories of out of body travel, and all embracing love occur after ones brush with death, NDEs may still fit within our medical science worldview.
The timing of NDE memories is the research question Dr. Penny Sartori sought to answer, âI worked in the intensive care unit and because of the nature of my job, of course, Iâd come across a lot of death. And of course makes you wonder what happens when we die. For five years I gathered data, where I spoke to patients in the intensive care unit and particularly patients whoâd had a cardiac arrest. When these patients revived, as soon as they were medically fit, I approached them and asked the simple question, âDid you have any memory of the time that you were unconscious?ââ
âFor the people who had a near-death experience and out of body experience [their recollection of resuscitation] was really quite accurate and I decided then to ask the control group, the people whoâd had a cardiac arrest but had no recollection of anything at all. I asked them if they would reenact their resuscitation scenario and tell me what they thought that we had done to resuscitate them. And what I found is that many of the patients couldnât even guess as to what weâd done. They had no idea at all. And then some of them did make guesses, but these were based on TV hospital dramas that theyâd seen. I found that what they reported was widely inaccurate. So there was a stark contrast really in the very accurate out of body experiences reported and then the guesses that the control group had made.â, Dr. Sartori reported.
While research like this may never be enough to convince dogmatic skeptics, the medical evidence for near death experience continues to challenge us to reexamine our beliefs about what lies beyond death.
===========================================================
http://www.spiritdaily.com/Buddhistneardeath.htm
BACK FROM DEATH IN THE EAST
An amazing feature of near-death experiences is that they are much the same no matter the religion or culture.
In one study of 1,000 cases in India and America, researchers found that when Indians were close to death, they told of encountering messengers and religious figures, much the same as Americans report. One difference: residents of India did not report seeing deceased loved ones as much as did Americans.
Another difference: in places such as Thailand, those who crossed over to the other side did not experience eternity as quite as pleasant as have Westerners. In Buddhism, the person who has such an experience is called a "delog."
"There were both similarities and differences between Western and Thai near-death experiences," says a nurse named Dr. Penny Santori in a book called The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences. "The tunnel was absent in Thai near-death experiences, as were feelings of bliss and ecstasy. Thai near-death experiences were mainly distressing in nature and depicted scenes of hell and torture. The dying person was forced to observe the tortures but did not experience them. There was only one case of an encounter with Heaven [in ten studied]."
Of course, the main religious difference, between the two, by and large, is that Americans are predominately Christian; Thailand is chiefly Buddhist (not to besmirch Buddhism, but to report on the result of one study).
Some of it comes down to what is expected: The afterlife is presented initially in a way that the person in transition understands. This may account for why those in Eastern or Muslim countries sometimes report a meeting with famous Buddhist, Hindu, or Islamic figures.
In Tibet -- also largely Buddhist -- it is common for those who "die" to report that they were "taken to the Lord of Death and guided through hell, where they witness the torture of other sinful people. These people ask the person to convey messages to their families, asking them to perform rituals to absolve their suffering and urge others to live in a moralistic way." This sounds a bit like praying for the deceased in purgatory.
Another author, Nancy Bush, whose equally and perhaps even more fascinating book, Dancing Past the Dark, Distressing Near-Death Experiences, notes that, "One delog account from the 17th-century included descriptions of terrifying divinities of yellow, red, and green, a bridge over an ocean of fire, and tied-up victims being beaten for having eaten meat. Then she was taken to meet Yama, the terrible Lord of Death.
âProtected by her personal divinity, she entered his palace and trembled as she saw his ugly, red face, wide-eyed and fanged. Wearing a tiger skin, skulls, and ďŹames, he held the fateful mirror of existence, a sword, and water. His frightening voice rumbled like a thousand dragons.
"He was attended by numerous ugly, animal-headed acolytes and a nasty, little, black demon holding black pebbles signifying the sinful deeds of each poor person to be judged. But a white deity held white pebbles that would weigh against the black deeds. This vast army of beasts was chanting 'execute! execute!' or whacking off the heads of the weeping victims.
âIn typical accounts of delogs, as young persons they have been gravely ill and seem to be dead to those grieving around them. But instead, they later report, they had risen up above their bodies, which then they did not recognize as their own. Next these personsâ dazed souls enter into a raucous hereafter, guided by their personal deity. They are taken to meet the horrifying Lord of Death himself.
"They are led on a shocking tour of Hell, where they see numerous condemned souls miserably suffering punishments beďŹtting their sins, such as the [Buddhist] nun who hears the unending cries of her own baby whom she murdered. The anguished sinners send urgent messages back to the living, begging family to do rituals to aid in their salvation and exhorting others to live an ethical life. The astonished travelers meet deceased parents and travel to paradise.
"Returning to the throne of the Lord of Death, they observe the dreadful judgment of souls with a bridge, a scale, or a mirror. They themselves are judged and given a message to send back. Their consciousnesses return to their bodies on earth. They deliver the various messages and exhort all to practice their Tibetan Buddhist religion faithfully."
Makes you think!
In China, a survey of 120 deathbed visions showed -- again -- similarities and differences.
In one account a Buddhist monk had a pleasant encounter whereby Buddha placed him in the palm of his hand and the light spread throughout the universe. Most interesting: a century ago a Confucian scholar who'd had just two lessons on the Christian faith "reported walking with Jesus to gates of pearl which were opened by angels that let them in," writes Santori. "She saw beautifully colored houses and walked with Jesus along golden streets. She saw thousands of angels encircling a throne on which the heavenly Father sat and He told her that she may go back for a while but must return on the twelfth of the month. A few days passed and on the twelfth of the month she dressed in her funeral clothes, lay down on the bed, and died." When Jesus is missing, it is precarious (to use understatement).
In Japan, many accounts include the upside of a temple gate and pleasant feelings; beautiful flowers are a prominent feature.
Some are sent back by relatives, as in so many Western accounts.
One researcher who interviewed seventeen patients found that nine had no memories, but eight who "died and returned" recalled rivers or ponds; of those eight, five were unpleasant. In one case a man who had been pronounced dead and sent to the mortuary, where he later came to, described a journey to his new house that was still in the process of construction. His account is similar to the one in China.
"He was told to go back and that it would be ready for him in a month's time," writes Bush.
"He died a month after he had revived."
[resources: Dancing Past the Dark, Distressing Near-Death Experiences and afterlife books]
These two articles are both insightful. The second one speaks of near death experiences of Buddhists and others in Eastern relgions. Note the distinctions between what they experienced and what many Christians experienced. The conclusion here is that there is life after death, plain and simple. And strong evidence for who God is as well.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.skeptiko.com/eeg-expert-on-near-death-experience/
90. EEG Expert Canât Explain Near Death Experience Data⌠and, Dr. Penny Sartori Finds More Than Hallucinations in NDE Accounts
January 4th, 2010
For near death experience skeptics, medical evidence of a flat EEG during an out of body experience has always been a stumbling block. After all, a brain dead patient canât hallucinate. But, does a flat EEG really mean no brain activity? NDE doubters have claimed activity deep inside the brain, beyond the reach of EEG instruments, must account for the complex ârealer than realâ experiences reported by those who briefly pass into the afterlife. Now, University of Toledo Neuroscience researcher, and EEG expert, Dr. John Greenfield explains why this claim doesnât hold up.
âItâs very unlikely that a hypoperfused brain [someone with no blood flow to the brain], with no evidence of electrical activity could generate NDEs. Human studies as well as animal studies have typically shown very little brain perfusion [blood flow] or glucose utilization when the EEG is flat. There are deep brain areas involved in generating memories that might still operate at some very reduced level during cardiac arrest, but of course any subcortically generated activity canât be brought to consciousness without at least one functioning cerebral hemisphere. So even if there were some way that NDEs were generated during the hypoxic state [while the brain is shut off from oxygen], you would not experience them until reperfusion [blood flow] allowed you to dream them or wake up and talk about themâ, Greenfield stated.
With near death experience cases making there way into the, New England Journal of Medicine, Journal of Psychiatry, and other major medical journals, NDE doubters have looked to the timing of patient memories as a way of explaining this unexplainable phenomena. If memories of out of body travel, and all embracing love occur after ones brush with death, NDEs may still fit within our medical science worldview.
The timing of NDE memories is the research question Dr. Penny Sartori sought to answer, âI worked in the intensive care unit and because of the nature of my job, of course, Iâd come across a lot of death. And of course makes you wonder what happens when we die. For five years I gathered data, where I spoke to patients in the intensive care unit and particularly patients whoâd had a cardiac arrest. When these patients revived, as soon as they were medically fit, I approached them and asked the simple question, âDid you have any memory of the time that you were unconscious?ââ
âFor the people who had a near-death experience and out of body experience [their recollection of resuscitation] was really quite accurate and I decided then to ask the control group, the people whoâd had a cardiac arrest but had no recollection of anything at all. I asked them if they would reenact their resuscitation scenario and tell me what they thought that we had done to resuscitate them. And what I found is that many of the patients couldnât even guess as to what weâd done. They had no idea at all. And then some of them did make guesses, but these were based on TV hospital dramas that theyâd seen. I found that what they reported was widely inaccurate. So there was a stark contrast really in the very accurate out of body experiences reported and then the guesses that the control group had made.â, Dr. Sartori reported.
While research like this may never be enough to convince dogmatic skeptics, the medical evidence for near death experience continues to challenge us to reexamine our beliefs about what lies beyond death.
===========================================================
http://www.spiritdaily.com/Buddhistneardeath.htm
BACK FROM DEATH IN THE EAST
An amazing feature of near-death experiences is that they are much the same no matter the religion or culture.
In one study of 1,000 cases in India and America, researchers found that when Indians were close to death, they told of encountering messengers and religious figures, much the same as Americans report. One difference: residents of India did not report seeing deceased loved ones as much as did Americans.
Another difference: in places such as Thailand, those who crossed over to the other side did not experience eternity as quite as pleasant as have Westerners. In Buddhism, the person who has such an experience is called a "delog."
"There were both similarities and differences between Western and Thai near-death experiences," says a nurse named Dr. Penny Santori in a book called The Wisdom of Near-Death Experiences. "The tunnel was absent in Thai near-death experiences, as were feelings of bliss and ecstasy. Thai near-death experiences were mainly distressing in nature and depicted scenes of hell and torture. The dying person was forced to observe the tortures but did not experience them. There was only one case of an encounter with Heaven [in ten studied]."
Of course, the main religious difference, between the two, by and large, is that Americans are predominately Christian; Thailand is chiefly Buddhist (not to besmirch Buddhism, but to report on the result of one study).
Some of it comes down to what is expected: The afterlife is presented initially in a way that the person in transition understands. This may account for why those in Eastern or Muslim countries sometimes report a meeting with famous Buddhist, Hindu, or Islamic figures.
In Tibet -- also largely Buddhist -- it is common for those who "die" to report that they were "taken to the Lord of Death and guided through hell, where they witness the torture of other sinful people. These people ask the person to convey messages to their families, asking them to perform rituals to absolve their suffering and urge others to live in a moralistic way." This sounds a bit like praying for the deceased in purgatory.
Another author, Nancy Bush, whose equally and perhaps even more fascinating book, Dancing Past the Dark, Distressing Near-Death Experiences, notes that, "One delog account from the 17th-century included descriptions of terrifying divinities of yellow, red, and green, a bridge over an ocean of fire, and tied-up victims being beaten for having eaten meat. Then she was taken to meet Yama, the terrible Lord of Death.
âProtected by her personal divinity, she entered his palace and trembled as she saw his ugly, red face, wide-eyed and fanged. Wearing a tiger skin, skulls, and ďŹames, he held the fateful mirror of existence, a sword, and water. His frightening voice rumbled like a thousand dragons.
"He was attended by numerous ugly, animal-headed acolytes and a nasty, little, black demon holding black pebbles signifying the sinful deeds of each poor person to be judged. But a white deity held white pebbles that would weigh against the black deeds. This vast army of beasts was chanting 'execute! execute!' or whacking off the heads of the weeping victims.
âIn typical accounts of delogs, as young persons they have been gravely ill and seem to be dead to those grieving around them. But instead, they later report, they had risen up above their bodies, which then they did not recognize as their own. Next these personsâ dazed souls enter into a raucous hereafter, guided by their personal deity. They are taken to meet the horrifying Lord of Death himself.
"They are led on a shocking tour of Hell, where they see numerous condemned souls miserably suffering punishments beďŹtting their sins, such as the [Buddhist] nun who hears the unending cries of her own baby whom she murdered. The anguished sinners send urgent messages back to the living, begging family to do rituals to aid in their salvation and exhorting others to live an ethical life. The astonished travelers meet deceased parents and travel to paradise.
"Returning to the throne of the Lord of Death, they observe the dreadful judgment of souls with a bridge, a scale, or a mirror. They themselves are judged and given a message to send back. Their consciousnesses return to their bodies on earth. They deliver the various messages and exhort all to practice their Tibetan Buddhist religion faithfully."
Makes you think!
In China, a survey of 120 deathbed visions showed -- again -- similarities and differences.
In one account a Buddhist monk had a pleasant encounter whereby Buddha placed him in the palm of his hand and the light spread throughout the universe. Most interesting: a century ago a Confucian scholar who'd had just two lessons on the Christian faith "reported walking with Jesus to gates of pearl which were opened by angels that let them in," writes Santori. "She saw beautifully colored houses and walked with Jesus along golden streets. She saw thousands of angels encircling a throne on which the heavenly Father sat and He told her that she may go back for a while but must return on the twelfth of the month. A few days passed and on the twelfth of the month she dressed in her funeral clothes, lay down on the bed, and died." When Jesus is missing, it is precarious (to use understatement).
In Japan, many accounts include the upside of a temple gate and pleasant feelings; beautiful flowers are a prominent feature.
Some are sent back by relatives, as in so many Western accounts.
One researcher who interviewed seventeen patients found that nine had no memories, but eight who "died and returned" recalled rivers or ponds; of those eight, five were unpleasant. In one case a man who had been pronounced dead and sent to the mortuary, where he later came to, described a journey to his new house that was still in the process of construction. His account is similar to the one in China.
"He was told to go back and that it would be ready for him in a month's time," writes Bush.
"He died a month after he had revived."
[resources: Dancing Past the Dark, Distressing Near-Death Experiences and afterlife books]