Cancer Treatment wait times....increasing under national healthcare system in Britain...

[westwall]

Once again, if it were so great, why do the rich and powerful come here?

How many times and in how many different ways do I have to address the same talking points? I already conceded that at the very top end U.S healthcare is the best. The rich and powerful come here because they are rich and powerful and can afford to fly across the globe to pay for the best care money can buy. Are you suggesting that if Europe did what we do the top end of their healthcare would be equal to our own and rich people wouldn't fly here for care? Are you suggesting that if we implemented a public option for those that need it our healthcare would cease to be the best at the top end and rich people wouldn't fly here for care? Both are equally ridiculous. A public option wouldn't prevent you from having access to excellent care. Our private care will continue to be the best in the world regardless of public options. You wouldn't have to wait in lines in the snow to get a procedure you need. I am also quite sure that if we really wanted to our public options could be way better than the European ones that Europeans are already very happy with. Why? Because we're fucking awesome and we can do anything better than Europe does.

The argument was never that at the top of the top European healthcare is better. The argument was that for people that can't afford the best healthcare in the world (most people) a public option is very useful. That's why nations that have done it will never stop working on public options. It would be the same here if we tried it. It'd end up being a huge boon to people and we would never go back. If we actually implemented public options I bet people like you would realize they work just fine. You'd go and use them and not worry about it because it wouldn't be a problem. You are convinced of shit that just isn't realistic. Your perspective is flawed and motivated by partisan bullshit. Public options are extremely useful and it is only a matter of time until we have one.

You claim that the NHS is great. The evidence shows that if you are relatively healthy it is good, but the second you get a serious illness, the system begins to fail.

In Canada the wait times are long enough for cancer treatments that in many cases the disease will escalate to a point where survival is in serious doubt due to the extended wait.

That is an inarguable fact. You consistently ignore real facts, and real concerns to support a failing system.

I suggest you read UK newspapers and their extensive coverage of the problems with the NHS.

These are THEIR reports.

Read them.

 

[westwall]

We have great healthcare..........for those who can afford it. Unfortunately many can not. I find it sad that we can continue to fund or not actually fund bail outs and bombs but not health care.

I suppose being alive and broke is better than not being alive but why should that be the choice?

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy

Health insurance doesn't equate to healthcare. You do understand that don't you?

Even if you are poor you can get top level health care.

 

[pknopp]

We have great healthcare..........for those who can afford it. Unfortunately many can not. I find it sad that we can continue to fund or not actually fund bail outs and bombs but not health care.

I suppose being alive and broke is better than not being alive but why should that be the choice?

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy

Health insurance doesn't equate to healthcare. You do understand that don't you?

Even if you are poor you can get top level health care.

No you can't.

Woman says her son couldn't afford his insulin – now he's dead

 

[westwall]

We have great healthcare..........for those who can afford it. Unfortunately many can not. I find it sad that we can continue to fund or not actually fund bail outs and bombs but not health care.

I suppose being alive and broke is better than not being alive but why should that be the choice?

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy

Health insurance doesn't equate to healthcare. You do understand that don't you?

Even if you are poor you can get top level health care.

No you can't.

Woman says her son couldn't afford his insulin – now he's dead

He should have asked for help. It is there for those who ask.

 

[pknopp]

We have great healthcare..........for those who can afford it. Unfortunately many can not. I find it sad that we can continue to fund or not actually fund bail outs and bombs but not health care.

I suppose being alive and broke is better than not being alive but why should that be the choice?

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy

Health insurance doesn't equate to healthcare. You do understand that don't you?

Even if you are poor you can get top level health care.

No you can't.

Woman says her son couldn't afford his insulin – now he's dead

He should have asked for help. It is there for those who ask.

People should have to resort to begging?

 

[westwall]

We have great healthcare..........for those who can afford it. Unfortunately many can not. I find it sad that we can continue to fund or not actually fund bail outs and bombs but not health care.

I suppose being alive and broke is better than not being alive but why should that be the choice?

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy

Health insurance doesn't equate to healthcare. You do understand that don't you?

Even if you are poor you can get top level health care.

No you can't.

Woman says her son couldn't afford his insulin – now he's dead

He should have asked for help. It is there for those who ask.

People should have to resort to begging?

Not what I am saying. There are programs out there to help those in need. Some are government programs, others are private, and some are religous in nature. But there are many looking to help these folks.

 

[pknopp]

We have great healthcare..........for those who can afford it. Unfortunately many can not. I find it sad that we can continue to fund or not actually fund bail outs and bombs but not health care.

I suppose being alive and broke is better than not being alive but why should that be the choice?

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy

Health insurance doesn't equate to healthcare. You do understand that don't you?

Even if you are poor you can get top level health care.

No you can't.

Woman says her son couldn't afford his insulin – now he's dead

He should have asked for help. It is there for those who ask.

People should have to resort to begging?

Not what I am saying. There are programs out there to help those in need. Some are government programs, others are private, and some are religous in nature. But there are many looking to help these folks.

So they need to beg.

 

[Toro]

In Canada the wait times are long enough for cancer treatments that in many cases the disease will escalate to a point where survival is in serious doubt due to the extended wait.

That rarely happens.

I've had friends and family who've had cancer in Canada, and they've never had to wait. My father had basil cell and would book a few months in advance, but that's understandable.

In Canada, if it's critical, you'll be in ASAP. The problem in Canada is that they don't have cutting edge treatments. Canada is often 4-5 years behind the US.

 

[westwall]

In Canada the wait times are long enough for cancer treatments that in many cases the disease will escalate to a point where survival is in serious doubt due to the extended wait.

That rarely happens.

I've had friends and family who've had cancer in Canada, and they've never had to wait. My father had basil cell and would book a few months in advance, but that's understandable.

In Canada, if it's critical, you'll be in ASAP. The problem in Canada is that they don't have cutting edge treatments. Canada is often 4-5 years behind the US.

There is a whole wing at Renown Hospital in Reno that is called the Canadian wing, for a reason.

A good friend of mine who was a Corrections Officer at the BC penitentiary sold his home so he could get his wife to an American cancer treatment facility because the 9 month wait would have killed her.

Your personal experiences don't matter. What matters are facts, and the facts are against you.

Last year over 50,000 Canadians came to the US for cancer treatments alone.

 

[westwall]

Health insurance doesn't equate to healthcare. You do understand that don't you?

Even if you are poor you can get top level health care.

No you can't.

Woman says her son couldn't afford his insulin – now he's dead

He should have asked for help. It is there for those who ask.

People should have to resort to begging?

Not what I am saying. There are programs out there to help those in need. Some are government programs, others are private, and some are religous in nature. But there are many looking to help these folks.

So they need to beg.

What do you think government health care is. Moron. You have your hand out begging for the government to take care of you.

 

[pknopp]

No you can't.

Woman says her son couldn't afford his insulin – now he's dead

He should have asked for help. It is there for those who ask.

People should have to resort to begging?

Not what I am saying. There are programs out there to help those in need. Some are government programs, others are private, and some are religous in nature. But there are many looking to help these folks.

So they need to beg.

What do you think government health care is. Moron. You have your hand out begging for the government to take care of you.

If you wish to discuss this unlike a 12 year old, I would be happy to.

 

[westwall]

He should have asked for help. It is there for those who ask.

People should have to resort to begging?

Not what I am saying. There are programs out there to help those in need. Some are government programs, others are private, and some are religous in nature. But there are many looking to help these folks.

So they need to beg.

What do you think government health care is. Moron. You have your hand out begging for the government to take care of you.

If you wish to discuss this unlike a 12 year old, I would be happy to.

No, you don't. Your sniveling "so they have to beg" is the argumentation style of a juvenile.

 

[pknopp]

People should have to resort to begging?

Not what I am saying. There are programs out there to help those in need. Some are government programs, others are private, and some are religous in nature. But there are many looking to help these folks.

So they need to beg.

What do you think government health care is. Moron. You have your hand out begging for the government to take care of you.

If you wish to discuss this unlike a 12 year old, I would be happy to.

No, you don't. Your sniveling "so they have to beg" is the argumentation style of a juvenile.

That is what is being said. What is being said is also a vast generalization with nothing to support the claim. Churches can not meet the medical needs of a country.

 

[westwall]

Not what I am saying. There are programs out there to help those in need. Some are government programs, others are private, and some are religous in nature. But there are many looking to help these folks.

So they need to beg.

What do you think government health care is. Moron. You have your hand out begging for the government to take care of you.

If you wish to discuss this unlike a 12 year old, I would be happy to.

No, you don't. Your sniveling "so they have to beg" is the argumentation style of a juvenile.

That is what is being said. What is being said is also a vast generalization with nothing to support the claim. Churches can not meet the medical needs of a country.

Did you not bother to read what I wrote? I specifically stated there were government, secular, aaaaand religious groups.

The biggest problem with diabetics is their apathy. A friend of mine died at 49 because he just couldn't bother to go to the hospital till the gangrene in his legs was too far advanced.

 

[Toro]

There is a whole wing at Renown Hospital in Reno that is called the Canadian wing, for a reason.

A good friend of mine who was a Corrections Officer at the BC penitentiary sold his home so he could get his wife to an American cancer treatment facility because the 9 month wait would have killed her.

Your personal experiences don't matter. What matters are facts, and the facts are against you.

Last year over 50,000 Canadians came to the US for cancer treatments alone.

My personal experiences don't matter but yours do? I posted the links to stats here a few years ago, but less than 1% of Canadians come to the US for medical treatments whereas 1.5% of Americans go abroad for medical treatments, due mainly to the costs. So more Americans are leaving the country than Canadians. I doubt you'd know that.

My father had melanoma. He was treated within days of the diagnosis. He lived another seven years. He passed a few months ago, but it wasn't from cancer. I had a friend die of multiple myeloma. He was in the hospital the very next day after diagnosis. I had another friend die of colon cancer. Same thing. As soon as he was diagnosed, he started receiving treatment the very next day. Both my grandfathers died of cancer but not for the reasons you claimed. One of my grandfathers had stomach cancer and was told he wouldn't live another five years. He lived another 20. I'm sorry about your friend, but the Canadian press is chockfull of examples of Americans dying due to the shitty care they receive because they couldn't afford it, something you won't see on Fox News. Most Canadians going south for treatment are because they can't get the treatment in Canada, not because of the wait.

The last poll in Canada was something like 85% of Canadians were happy with Canadian healthcare, despite its problems. I don't know anything in America that has 85% approval ratings.

 

[pknopp]

So they need to beg.

What do you think government health care is. Moron. You have your hand out begging for the government to take care of you.

If you wish to discuss this unlike a 12 year old, I would be happy to.

No, you don't. Your sniveling "so they have to beg" is the argumentation style of a juvenile.

That is what is being said. What is being said is also a vast generalization with nothing to support the claim. Churches can not meet the medical needs of a country.

Did you not bother to read what I wrote? I specifically stated there were government, secular, aaaaand religious groups.

The biggest problem with diabetics is their apathy. A friend of mine died at 49 because he just couldn't bother to go to the hospital till the gangrene in his legs was too far advanced.

You can write whatever you like. That doesn't make a factual solution to the many not able to afford healthcare.

Your anecdotal examples do not interest me.

 

[Toro]

Did you not bother to read what I wrote? I specifically stated there were government, secular, aaaaand religious groups.

The biggest problem with diabetics is their apathy. A friend of mine died at 49 because he just couldn't bother to go to the hospital till the gangrene in his legs was too far advanced.

Didn't you just say that one shouldn't use personal experiences but instead look at "facts?"

You seem pretty selective about this.

The "facts" about American healthcare are pretty poor.

 

[Toro]

This is a decade old, but if it’s changed, it’s because of Obamacare.

45,000 Americans die every year because the lack health insurance.

New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage

 

[westwall]

Did you not bother to read what I wrote? I specifically stated there were government, secular, aaaaand religious groups.

The biggest problem with diabetics is their apathy. A friend of mine died at 49 because he just couldn't bother to go to the hospital till the gangrene in his legs was too far advanced.

Didn't you just say that one shouldn't use personal experiences but instead look at "facts?"

You seem pretty selective about this.

The "facts" about American healthcare are pretty poor.

Not at all. Look up the numbers of Canadians using US medical services. I gave you the numbers. That is from your own newspapers.

Like I said, the newspapers, YOUR newspapers, are reporting them. I suggest you read them instead of whining here.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Moron....those nations can't field the units they are required to by treaty let alone face off against Russia........

The combined EU could kick Russia's ass. It's irrelevant anyway though because RUSSIA ISN'T GOING TO FUCKING INVADE WESTERN EUROPE. THE RED SCARE IS OVER. THE WORLD HAS CHANGED. GET WITH THE TIMES YOU STUPID COWARDLY OLD FUCK.

Thank you.

"Peace in our time!"