Cancer Treatment wait times....increasing under national healthcare system in Britain...

[Toro]

Did you not bother to read what I wrote? I specifically stated there were government, secular, aaaaand religious groups.

The biggest problem with diabetics is their apathy. A friend of mine died at 49 because he just couldn't bother to go to the hospital till the gangrene in his legs was too far advanced.

Didn't you just say that one shouldn't use personal experiences but instead look at "facts?"

You seem pretty selective about this.

The "facts" about American healthcare are pretty poor.

Not at all. Look up the numbers of Canadians using US medical services. I gave you the numbers. That is from your own newspapers.

Like I said, the newspapers, YOUR newspapers, are reporting them. I suggest you read them instead of whining here.

Right. 0.8% of Canadians go abroad for medical treatment and 1.5% of Americans go abroad for medical treatment. Tens of thousands of Americans die every year because of the American system.

As a guy who makes a comfortable living, I’m happy to be in the American system. But the “facts” that you so conveniently ignore is that most Canadians want nothing to do with the American system.

You’re very selective on the “facts” you choose to reinforce your biases.

 

[Toro]

What the highly biased and ignorant Westwall won’t tell you - because he doesn’t know - is that many if not most Canadians leaving the country for treatment are being funded by Canadian government healthcare.

 

[Maxdeath]

You seem to think that only the rich can get medical treatment in the U.S. Hate to throw a wrench into your whole narrative there but with my Blue Cross Blue shield I can go to any hospital any doctor. I am not limited to some backyard dog kennel. I don't have to go to a special hospital only because I am old. I don't have to wait eight months or over a year to see a doctor.

I have insurance on my vehicles, my house even my life. I realize that some think it is worth the risk of not having health insurance is a good trade off to having that new iPhone or eating out every week.

European healthcare is a lot better than you understand. It's a lot better than your politically motivated sources will admit. Also they still have private options if necessary. If it were trash and people weren't getting help other than in isolated anecdotal situations it wouldn't be so popular. I have been to the UK, Denmark and Sweden. I have talked politics with people and have expressed the point of view U.S right wingers have in regard to their healthcare. The people that live there laugh at the shit you say because you're ignorant. They are not ignorant; you are. No system is perfect, including theirs. You could find horror stories and anecdotes to push any position in politics. That's all that's being done in the articles you use to reinforce what you already believe. The fact of the matter however is that their public options do a lot of good for people that need it, and the public would never support the removal of public options. That will never happen, ever. Keep shouting from the rooftops that their system will fall apart any minute. Shout until you're blue in the face. They're laughing at you though. Public healthcare in Europe will never go away. It's only a matter of time until we do something similar.

Way to go I would never expect someone on the left to get through a discussion without the claim someone else was ignorant or a peice of crap.

Are you Willing to double your federal income tax to have small hospitals close down. Longer wait times. Less healthcare options, the loss of semi private and private rooms?

We have a good healthcare system but people want to tear it down because they would rather spend money on eating out then on insurance. Then people pretend that someone else will have to pay for it. Sorry it just does not work that way.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Right. 0.8% of Canadians go abroad for medical treatment and 1.5% of Americans go abroad for medical treatment. Tens of thousands of Americans die every year because of the American system

While our hospitals save lives every day, they are also the third leading cause of avoidable death every year. In Canada, medical errors and hospital-acquired infections claim between 30,000 and 60,000 lives annually. Thousands more are injured. But to the public, these incidents are largely invisible

Preventable Medical Error Is Canadian Healthcare's Silent Killer

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Good thing there are still private doctors for people that can afford it. Want to guess what happens to people in the states when they can't afford insurance or private care? A lot of them die due to lack of care. I bet they wish they had that awful public option that Britain does.

You know, I was wondering something...

With how horrible public healthcare is, why do you suppose the approval rating for healthcare is so much higher throughout Europe than it is in the states? Why do you suppose it is that none of these nations will ever stop providing national healthcare? Why do you suppose it is that we are one of the only nations on Earth that doesn't offer a public option?

Because we give free healthcare to 22,000,000 illegals

 

[westwall]

What the highly biased and ignorant Westwall won’t tell you - because he doesn’t know - is that many if not most Canadians leaving the country for treatment are being funded by Canadian government healthcare.

Please provide a link for that.

 

[Toro]

Right. 0.8% of Canadians go abroad for medical treatment and 1.5% of Americans go abroad for medical treatment. Tens of thousands of Americans die every year because of the American system

While our hospitals save lives every day, they are also the third leading cause of avoidable death every year. In Canada, medical errors and hospital-acquired infections claim between 30,000 and 60,000 lives annually. Thousands more are injured. But to the public, these incidents are largely invisible

Preventable Medical Error Is Canadian Healthcare's Silent Killer

Just like in America.

 

[Toro]

What the highly biased and ignorant Westwall won’t tell you - because he doesn’t know - is that many if not most Canadians leaving the country for treatment are being funded by Canadian government healthcare.

Please provide a link for that.

lol

What do you know about the Canadian system? Nothing. What you "know" you've read off Fox News.

 

[pknopp]

You seem to think that only the rich can get medical treatment in the U.S. Hate to throw a wrench into your whole narrative there but with my Blue Cross Blue shield I can go to any hospital any doctor. I am not limited to some backyard dog kennel. I don't have to go to a special hospital only because I am old. I don't have to wait eight months or over a year to see a doctor.

I have insurance on my vehicles, my house even my life. I realize that some think it is worth the risk of not having health insurance is a good trade off to having that new iPhone or eating out every week.

European healthcare is a lot better than you understand. It's a lot better than your politically motivated sources will admit. Also they still have private options if necessary. If it were trash and people weren't getting help other than in isolated anecdotal situations it wouldn't be so popular. I have been to the UK, Denmark and Sweden. I have talked politics with people and have expressed the point of view U.S right wingers have in regard to their healthcare. The people that live there laugh at the shit you say because you're ignorant. They are not ignorant; you are. No system is perfect, including theirs. You could find horror stories and anecdotes to push any position in politics. That's all that's being done in the articles you use to reinforce what you already believe. The fact of the matter however is that their public options do a lot of good for people that need it, and the public would never support the removal of public options. That will never happen, ever. Keep shouting from the rooftops that their system will fall apart any minute. Shout until you're blue in the face. They're laughing at you though. Public healthcare in Europe will never go away. It's only a matter of time until we do something similar.

Way to go I would never expect someone on the left to get through a discussion without the claim someone else was ignorant or a peice of crap.

Are you Willing to double your federal income tax to have small hospitals close down. Longer wait times. Less healthcare options, the loss of semi private and private rooms?

We have a good healthcare system but people want to tear it down because they would rather spend money on eating out then on insurance. Then people pretend that someone else will have to pay for it. Sorry it just does not work that way.

I could double my taxes and not pay more than I am now. That said, you don't get to just make up scenarios.

 

[pknopp]

Good thing there are still private doctors for people that can afford it. Want to guess what happens to people in the states when they can't afford insurance or private care? A lot of them die due to lack of care. I bet they wish they had that awful public option that Britain does.

You know, I was wondering something...

With how horrible public healthcare is, why do you suppose the approval rating for healthcare is so much higher throughout Europe than it is in the states? Why do you suppose it is that none of these nations will ever stop providing national healthcare? Why do you suppose it is that we are one of the only nations on Earth that doesn't offer a public option?

Because we give free healthcare to 22,000,000 illegals

We indeed should see that they pay their fair share.

 

[Toro]

This branch is the problem with American politics today.

I said from the outset that the American system is better. But the highly biased and not very intelligent right wing partisans could not bear anything that contradicted their narrow ideological worldview.

The sad thing is that most of these “conservatives” are old. The young are far far more willing to tolerate leftism and socialism. They look at these fossils and retreat to a discredited ideology.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Right. 0.8% of Canadians go abroad for medical treatment and 1.5% of Americans go abroad for medical treatment. Tens of thousands of Americans die every year because of the American system

While our hospitals save lives every day, they are also the third leading cause of avoidable death every year. In Canada, medical errors and hospital-acquired infections claim between 30,000 and 60,000 lives annually. Thousands more are injured. But to the public, these incidents are largely invisible

Preventable Medical Error Is Canadian Healthcare's Silent Killer

Just like in America.

Nope. There rates are significantly worse. Remember, we have over ten times their population with a significant minority population

 

[Maxdeath]

You seem to think that only the rich can get medical treatment in the U.S. Hate to throw a wrench into your whole narrative there but with my Blue Cross Blue shield I can go to any hospital any doctor. I am not limited to some backyard dog kennel. I don't have to go to a special hospital only because I am old. I don't have to wait eight months or over a year to see a doctor.

I have insurance on my vehicles, my house even my life. I realize that some think it is worth the risk of not having health insurance is a good trade off to having that new iPhone or eating out every week.

European healthcare is a lot better than you understand. It's a lot better than your politically motivated sources will admit. Also they still have private options if necessary. If it were trash and people weren't getting help other than in isolated anecdotal situations it wouldn't be so popular. I have been to the UK, Denmark and Sweden. I have talked politics with people and have expressed the point of view U.S right wingers have in regard to their healthcare. The people that live there laugh at the shit you say because you're ignorant. They are not ignorant; you are. No system is perfect, including theirs. You could find horror stories and anecdotes to push any position in politics. That's all that's being done in the articles you use to reinforce what you already believe. The fact of the matter however is that their public options do a lot of good for people that need it, and the public would never support the removal of public options. That will never happen, ever. Keep shouting from the rooftops that their system will fall apart any minute. Shout until you're blue in the face. They're laughing at you though. Public healthcare in Europe will never go away. It's only a matter of time until we do something similar.

Way to go I would never expect someone on the left to get through a discussion without the claim someone else was ignorant or a peice of crap.

Are you Willing to double your federal income tax to have small hospitals close down. Longer wait times. Less healthcare options, the loss of semi private and private rooms?

We have a good healthcare system but people want to tear it down because they would rather spend money on eating out then on insurance. Then people pretend that someone else will have to pay for it. Sorry it just does not work that way.

I could double my taxes and not pay more than I am now. That said, you don't get to just make up scenarios.

What scenario are you talking about the fact that Medicare for all as Bernie envisions it would cost 3.2 trillion a year and still not cover everything? The fact that 3.2 trillion was exactly what was brought in in 2016 in federal taxes?
Perhaps you are trying to pretend that small hospitals have already stated that given the fact that government says they can only charge a given amount for rooms and services they will have to close since they can not get by on those prices since they are small and out of the way their costs are higher?
Perhaps you are talking the loss of private and semi private rooms which they do not allow on Medicare or in countries that have single payer healthcare?
If you don't have a specific problem you wish to address then I am just guessing that the reason you use the own scenario as I don't like what you said but don't want to refute anything.

 

[westwall]

What the highly biased and ignorant Westwall won’t tell you - because he doesn’t know - is that many if not most Canadians leaving the country for treatment are being funded by Canadian government healthcare.

Please provide a link for that.

lol

What do you know about the Canadian system? Nothing. What you "know" you've read off Fox News.

Provide a link for your claim. It's not hard. Just back up your claim.

 

[pknopp]

You seem to think that only the rich can get medical treatment in the U.S. Hate to throw a wrench into your whole narrative there but with my Blue Cross Blue shield I can go to any hospital any doctor. I am not limited to some backyard dog kennel. I don't have to go to a special hospital only because I am old. I don't have to wait eight months or over a year to see a doctor.

I have insurance on my vehicles, my house even my life. I realize that some think it is worth the risk of not having health insurance is a good trade off to having that new iPhone or eating out every week.

European healthcare is a lot better than you understand. It's a lot better than your politically motivated sources will admit. Also they still have private options if necessary. If it were trash and people weren't getting help other than in isolated anecdotal situations it wouldn't be so popular. I have been to the UK, Denmark and Sweden. I have talked politics with people and have expressed the point of view U.S right wingers have in regard to their healthcare. The people that live there laugh at the shit you say because you're ignorant. They are not ignorant; you are. No system is perfect, including theirs. You could find horror stories and anecdotes to push any position in politics. That's all that's being done in the articles you use to reinforce what you already believe. The fact of the matter however is that their public options do a lot of good for people that need it, and the public would never support the removal of public options. That will never happen, ever. Keep shouting from the rooftops that their system will fall apart any minute. Shout until you're blue in the face. They're laughing at you though. Public healthcare in Europe will never go away. It's only a matter of time until we do something similar.

Way to go I would never expect someone on the left to get through a discussion without the claim someone else was ignorant or a peice of crap.

Are you Willing to double your federal income tax to have small hospitals close down. Longer wait times. Less healthcare options, the loss of semi private and private rooms?

We have a good healthcare system but people want to tear it down because they would rather spend money on eating out then on insurance. Then people pretend that someone else will have to pay for it. Sorry it just does not work that way.

I could double my taxes and not pay more than I am now. That said, you don't get to just make up scenarios.

What scenario are you talking about the fact that Medicare for all as Bernie envisions it would cost 3.2 trillion a year and still not cover everything? The fact that 3.2 trillion was exactly what was brought in in 2016 in federal taxes?
Perhaps you are trying to pretend that small hospitals have already stated that given the fact that government says they can only charge a given amount for rooms and services they will have to close since they can not get by on those prices since they are small and out of the way their costs are higher?
Perhaps you are talking the loss of private and semi private rooms which they do not allow on Medicare or in countries that have single payer healthcare?
If you don't have a specific problem you wish to address then I am just guessing that the reason you use the own scenario as I don't like what you said but don't want to refute anything.

It gets old ...........it really does. You can state your facts, which aren't all day.

No one expects to pay nothing. People pay now. Businesses pay now. That will not change.

 

[Toro]

What the highly biased and ignorant Westwall won’t tell you - because he doesn’t know - is that many if not most Canadians leaving the country for treatment are being funded by Canadian government healthcare.

Please provide a link for that.

lol

What do you know about the Canadian system? Nothing. What you "know" you've read off Fox News.

Provide a link for your claim. It's not hard. Just back up your claim.

lol

When you link that “in many cases the disease will escalate to a point where survival is in serious doubt due to the extended wait.”

I’m waiting.

 

[Maxdeath]

You seem to think that only the rich can get medical treatment in the U.S. Hate to throw a wrench into your whole narrative there but with my Blue Cross Blue shield I can go to any hospital any doctor. I am not limited to some backyard dog kennel. I don't have to go to a special hospital only because I am old. I don't have to wait eight months or over a year to see a doctor.

I have insurance on my vehicles, my house even my life. I realize that some think it is worth the risk of not having health insurance is a good trade off to having that new iPhone or eating out every week.

European healthcare is a lot better than you understand. It's a lot better than your politically motivated sources will admit. Also they still have private options if necessary. If it were trash and people weren't getting help other than in isolated anecdotal situations it wouldn't be so popular. I have been to the UK, Denmark and Sweden. I have talked politics with people and have expressed the point of view U.S right wingers have in regard to their healthcare. The people that live there laugh at the shit you say because you're ignorant. They are not ignorant; you are. No system is perfect, including theirs. You could find horror stories and anecdotes to push any position in politics. That's all that's being done in the articles you use to reinforce what you already believe. The fact of the matter however is that their public options do a lot of good for people that need it, and the public would never support the removal of public options. That will never happen, ever. Keep shouting from the rooftops that their system will fall apart any minute. Shout until you're blue in the face. They're laughing at you though. Public healthcare in Europe will never go away. It's only a matter of time until we do something similar.

Way to go I would never expect someone on the left to get through a discussion without the claim someone else was ignorant or a peice of crap.

Are you Willing to double your federal income tax to have small hospitals close down. Longer wait times. Less healthcare options, the loss of semi private and private rooms?

We have a good healthcare system but people want to tear it down because they would rather spend money on eating out then on insurance. Then people pretend that someone else will have to pay for it. Sorry it just does not work that way.

I could double my taxes and not pay more than I am now. That said, you don't get to just make up scenarios.

What scenario are you talking about the fact that Medicare for all as Bernie envisions it would cost 3.2 trillion a year and still not cover everything? The fact that 3.2 trillion was exactly what was brought in in 2016 in federal taxes?
Perhaps you are trying to pretend that small hospitals have already stated that given the fact that government says they can only charge a given amount for rooms and services they will have to close since they can not get by on those prices since they are small and out of the way their costs are higher?
Perhaps you are talking the loss of private and semi private rooms which they do not allow on Medicare or in countries that have single payer healthcare?
If you don't have a specific problem you wish to address then I am just guessing that the reason you use the own scenario as I don't like what you said but don't want to refute anything.

It gets old ...........it really does. You can state your facts, which aren't all day.

No one expects to pay nothing. People pay now. Businesses pay now. That will not change.

The funny thing is I have something to back up what I claim you just have stomp your feet and deny. Try reading this The cost of Medicare for All: Sticker shock or bill relief?
If you don't like that there are more articles I can post.

 

[pknopp]

European healthcare is a lot better than you understand. It's a lot better than your politically motivated sources will admit. Also they still have private options if necessary. If it were trash and people weren't getting help other than in isolated anecdotal situations it wouldn't be so popular. I have been to the UK, Denmark and Sweden. I have talked politics with people and have expressed the point of view U.S right wingers have in regard to their healthcare. The people that live there laugh at the shit you say because you're ignorant. They are not ignorant; you are. No system is perfect, including theirs. You could find horror stories and anecdotes to push any position in politics. That's all that's being done in the articles you use to reinforce what you already believe. The fact of the matter however is that their public options do a lot of good for people that need it, and the public would never support the removal of public options. That will never happen, ever. Keep shouting from the rooftops that their system will fall apart any minute. Shout until you're blue in the face. They're laughing at you though. Public healthcare in Europe will never go away. It's only a matter of time until we do something similar.

Way to go I would never expect someone on the left to get through a discussion without the claim someone else was ignorant or a peice of crap.

Are you Willing to double your federal income tax to have small hospitals close down. Longer wait times. Less healthcare options, the loss of semi private and private rooms?

We have a good healthcare system but people want to tear it down because they would rather spend money on eating out then on insurance. Then people pretend that someone else will have to pay for it. Sorry it just does not work that way.

I could double my taxes and not pay more than I am now. That said, you don't get to just make up scenarios.

What scenario are you talking about the fact that Medicare for all as Bernie envisions it would cost 3.2 trillion a year and still not cover everything? The fact that 3.2 trillion was exactly what was brought in in 2016 in federal taxes?
Perhaps you are trying to pretend that small hospitals have already stated that given the fact that government says they can only charge a given amount for rooms and services they will have to close since they can not get by on those prices since they are small and out of the way their costs are higher?
Perhaps you are talking the loss of private and semi private rooms which they do not allow on Medicare or in countries that have single payer healthcare?
If you don't have a specific problem you wish to address then I am just guessing that the reason you use the own scenario as I don't like what you said but don't want to refute anything.

It gets old ...........it really does. You can state your facts, which aren't all day.

No one expects to pay nothing. People pay now. Businesses pay now. That will not change.

The funny thing is I have something to back up what I claim you just have stomp your feet and deny. Try reading this The cost of Medicare for All: Sticker shock or bill relief?
If you don't like that there are more articles I can post.

No one is arguing that it isn't complicated. The argument is that every other first world country has figured it out.

 

[Maxdeath]

Way to go I would never expect someone on the left to get through a discussion without the claim someone else was ignorant or a peice of crap.

Are you Willing to double your federal income tax to have small hospitals close down. Longer wait times. Less healthcare options, the loss of semi private and private rooms?

We have a good healthcare system but people want to tear it down because they would rather spend money on eating out then on insurance. Then people pretend that someone else will have to pay for it. Sorry it just does not work that way.

I could double my taxes and not pay more than I am now. That said, you don't get to just make up scenarios.

What scenario are you talking about the fact that Medicare for all as Bernie envisions it would cost 3.2 trillion a year and still not cover everything? The fact that 3.2 trillion was exactly what was brought in in 2016 in federal taxes?
Perhaps you are trying to pretend that small hospitals have already stated that given the fact that government says they can only charge a given amount for rooms and services they will have to close since they can not get by on those prices since they are small and out of the way their costs are higher?
Perhaps you are talking the loss of private and semi private rooms which they do not allow on Medicare or in countries that have single payer healthcare?
If you don't have a specific problem you wish to address then I am just guessing that the reason you use the own scenario as I don't like what you said but don't want to refute anything.

It gets old ...........it really does. You can state your facts, which aren't all day.

No one expects to pay nothing. People pay now. Businesses pay now. That will not change.

The funny thing is I have something to back up what I claim you just have stomp your feet and deny. Try reading this The cost of Medicare for All: Sticker shock or bill relief?
If you don't like that there are more articles I can post.

No one is arguing that it isn't complicated. The argument is that every other first world country has figured it out.

And according to almost every first world country says they are having both financial and personell problems. So which one do you want? A problem that we are familiar with or one that we are not and there may be no way to come back from?
Glad to see you finally got over that it won't cost that much.

 

[pknopp]

I could double my taxes and not pay more than I am now. That said, you don't get to just make up scenarios.

What scenario are you talking about the fact that Medicare for all as Bernie envisions it would cost 3.2 trillion a year and still not cover everything? The fact that 3.2 trillion was exactly what was brought in in 2016 in federal taxes?
Perhaps you are trying to pretend that small hospitals have already stated that given the fact that government says they can only charge a given amount for rooms and services they will have to close since they can not get by on those prices since they are small and out of the way their costs are higher?
Perhaps you are talking the loss of private and semi private rooms which they do not allow on Medicare or in countries that have single payer healthcare?
If you don't have a specific problem you wish to address then I am just guessing that the reason you use the own scenario as I don't like what you said but don't want to refute anything.

It gets old ...........it really does. You can state your facts, which aren't all day.

No one expects to pay nothing. People pay now. Businesses pay now. That will not change.

The funny thing is I have something to back up what I claim you just have stomp your feet and deny. Try reading this The cost of Medicare for All: Sticker shock or bill relief?
If you don't like that there are more articles I can post.

No one is arguing that it isn't complicated. The argument is that every other first world country has figured it out.

And according to almost every first world country says they are having both financial and personell problems. So which one do you want? A problem that we are familiar with or one that we are not and there may be no way to come back from?
Glad to see you finally got over that it won't cost that much.

I have no idea exactly what it will cost nor do I care. If we do not have to pay for bail outs and bombs, we don't actually have to pay for health care either.