Cancer Treatment wait times....increasing under national healthcare system in Britain...

[Confounding]

They can't afford the taxes necessary to pay for the system they have and afford a system similar to ours.

If you went to Britain or any nation with national healthcare and suggested to people that they'd be better off doing it like we do they'd laugh in your face.

Care to prove that?
I can prove that Canada is experiencing extremely long wait times to see doctors. That they are also seeing a decline in nursing staff. That they have a shortage of doctors and hospital rooms.
I can prove that Britian is facing a problem with certain hospitals only serving older citizens. I can show you that they are experiencing a money shortage for their healthcare.
I can show that those that can afford it come to the U.S. for treatment.

There are Scandinavian countries with an over 90% approval rating of their public healthcare. The fact that the people there love it and don't want it to go anywhere, just improve, speaks for itself. The idea that they're just too ignorant to see that our way is better is fucking ludicrous. Our healthcare is only the best if you're rich and can afford to pay the most gifted doctors in the world to help you. Public healthcare options are better for the public at large. That's why people there love it and it's why it will never go away, ever. You people have been shouting that their system will collapse any second now for fucking decades. It won't though. It's not going to go away. No, it's not perfect and nothing can be, but they will never stop doing it. They will only seek to improve it. Also anecdotally I have been to Europe and talk to Europeans. They think we are fucking crazy.

 

[Polishprince]

Because they don't know any better.

What a load of shit. They know what we do and they want no part of it. Why is the approval of our healthcare so low?

Actually, British subjects who give a shit about their health come to America, or go to private clinics in other nations.

When Mick Jagger needed a heart operation, he had it done in New York instead of by NHS quacks for free in England.

When Canadian subject Alex Trebek came down with his pancreatic problems, he consulted with American doctors instead of standing in line in Saskatoon.

Yes, U,S healthcare is the best in the world if you're rich. Not everybody can afford to get on their private jet and fly to see the most gifted private physicians on Earth. Everyday people would be better off if we had a public option. Rich people would still have private healthcare options because a public option wouldn't ban private ones. Don't worry. The rich wouldn't be forced to mingle with the poors and their mediocre doctors. .

Actually, you don't have to be wealthy in America to get world class medical treatment, and that's the point.

Plenty of people who are just scraping by, get world class treatment at facilities like the Cleveland Clinic or UPMC, that they can drive to.

They don't have to get into a private jet and fly halfway across the world like Eurotrash do today to get decent treatment.

 

[westwall]

No, they really don't. The NHS is all most of them have known. It started well, but like most people here, they only hear what they are told, but don't check the accounts for themselves.

The NHS is failing. The rate of failure is increasing.

They will keep it active and seek to improve it. It won't go anywhere. Almost every nation on Earth has public healthcare, not just Europe. It is the future and it is only a matter of time before the U.S does it too.

They can't improve it because there is no mechanism to do that. Nor is there accountability for the NHS failures.

Can't fix what you won't acknowledge is broken.

 

[Maxdeath]

They can't afford the taxes necessary to pay for the system they have and afford a system similar to ours.

If you went to Britain or any nation with national healthcare and suggested to people that they'd be better off doing it like we do they'd laugh in your face.

Care to prove that?
I can prove that Canada is experiencing extremely long wait times to see doctors. That they are also seeing a decline in nursing staff. That they have a shortage of doctors and hospital rooms.
I can prove that Britian is facing a problem with certain hospitals only serving older citizens. I can show you that they are experiencing a money shortage for their healthcare.
I can show that those that can afford it come to the U.S. for treatment.

There are Scandinavian countries with an over 90% approval rating of their public healthcare. The fact that the people there love it and don't want it to go anywhere, just improve, speaks for itself. The idea that they're just too ignorant to see that our way is better is fucking ludicrous. Our healthcare is only the best if you're rich and can afford to pay the most gifted doctors in the world to help you. Public healthcare options are better for the public at large. That's why people there love it and it's why it will never go away, ever. You people have been shouting that their system will collapse any second now for fucking decades. It won't though. It's not going to go away. No, it's not perfect and nothing can be, but they will never stop doing it. They will only seek to improve it. Also anecdotally I have been to Europe and talk to Europeans. They think we are fucking crazy.

You seem to think that only the rich can get medical treatment in the U.S. Hate to throw a wrench into your whole narrative there but with my Blue Cross Blue shield I can go to any hospital any doctor. I am not limited to some backyard dog kennel. I don't have to go to a special hospital only because I am old. I don't have to wait eight months or over a year to see a doctor.

I have insurance on my vehicles, my house even my life. I realize that some think it is worth the risk of not having health insurance is a good trade off to having that new iPhone or eating out every week.

 

[westwall]

They can't afford the taxes necessary to pay for the system they have and afford a system similar to ours.

If you went to Britain or any nation with national healthcare and suggested to people that they'd be better off doing it like we do they'd laugh in your face.

Care to prove that?
I can prove that Canada is experiencing extremely long wait times to see doctors. That they are also seeing a decline in nursing staff. That they have a shortage of doctors and hospital rooms.
I can prove that Britian is facing a problem with certain hospitals only serving older citizens. I can show you that they are experiencing a money shortage for their healthcare.
I can show that those that can afford it come to the U.S. for treatment.

There are Scandinavian countries with an over 90% approval rating of their public healthcare. The fact that the people there love it and don't want it to go anywhere, just improve, speaks for itself. The idea that they're just too ignorant to see that our way is better is fucking ludicrous. Our healthcare is only the best if you're rich and can afford to pay the most gifted doctors in the world to help you. Public healthcare options are better for the public at large. That's why people there love it and it's why it will never go away, ever. You people have been shouting that their system will collapse any second now for fucking decades. It won't though. It's not going to go away. No, it's not perfect and nothing can be, but they will never stop doing it. They will only seek to improve it. Also anecdotally I have been to Europe and talk to Europeans. They think we are fucking crazy.

I think we all have seen how polls are unreliable. Don't you think?

Instead of listening to what they say, take a look at what they do. If the European system's were so great, the rich and powerful wouldn't need to come here.

Now would they.

 

[2aguy]

They can't afford the taxes necessary to pay for the system they have and afford a system similar to ours.

If you went to Britain or any nation with national healthcare and suggested to people that they'd be better off doing it like we do they'd laugh in your face.

Care to prove that?
I can prove that Canada is experiencing extremely long wait times to see doctors. That they are also seeing a decline in nursing staff. That they have a shortage of doctors and hospital rooms.
I can prove that Britian is facing a problem with certain hospitals only serving older citizens. I can show you that they are experiencing a money shortage for their healthcare.
I can show that those that can afford it come to the U.S. for treatment.

There are Scandinavian countries with an over 90% approval rating of their public healthcare. The fact that the people there love it and don't want it to go anywhere, just improve, speaks for itself. The idea that they're just too ignorant to see that our way is better is fucking ludicrous. Our healthcare is only the best if you're rich and can afford to pay the most gifted doctors in the world to help you. Public healthcare options are better for the public at large. That's why people there love it and it's why it will never go away, ever. You people have been shouting that their system will collapse any second now for fucking decades. It won't though. It's not going to go away. No, it's not perfect and nothing can be, but they will never stop doing it. They will only seek to improve it. Also anecdotally I have been to Europe and talk to Europeans. They think we are fucking crazy.

Those systems are also running out of money, you doofus.

Sweden...
Crisis situation at Swedish hospitals | eurotopics.net



Expressen is dismayed by the conditions in a country that calls itself a welfare state:
“Not even children are spared in this crisis. At Stockholm's new Karolinska Hospital a third of the beds are empty and one in ten of the operations on children has been cancelled this year. ... The acute problem is the shortage of nurses. It is forcing hospitals to leave beds unused. ... Never before has so much money been allocated to the healthcare system, but it is being misused. The Social Democrats in Stockholm want people to come to the polyclinics for regular health checks.
In other words completely healthy people use up resources that can barely cover the needs of the sick.
The chronic crisis is undermining trust in the politicians. The question is whether Sweden can continue calling itself a social welfare state when children are dying unnecessarily.”
--------
In Aftonbladet's view the situation is above all the result of poor decisions at the political level:

“Sweden has the fewest hospital beds per capita in Europe. So it's no wonder voters always put healthcare at the top of the list when asked what topics they see as most important. ... It's the politicians who have pushed health into the shadows. There was a time when the minister for social affairs was just as important as the finance minister. ... Then along came [the conservative government] and gave the smallest party [the Christian Democrats] the responsibility for healthcare. And this trend has continued under the Social Democrats. ... Sweden's public healthcare needs a crisis committee and a minister who can overhaul the entire system.”
=========


Norway.....

Government Health Care Horror Stories from Norway

I'll admit this: if, like me, you're a self-employed person with a marginal income, the Norwegian system is, in many ways, a boon – as long as you're careful not to get anything much more serious than a cold or flu.

Doctors' visits are cheap; hospitalization is free. But you get what you pay for. There are excellent doctors in Norway – but there are also mediocrities and outright incompetents who in the U.S. would have been stripped of their licenses long ago. The fact is that while the ubiquity of frivolous malpractice lawsuits in the U.S. has been a disgrace, the inability of Norwegians to sue doctors or hospitals even in the most egregious of circumstances is even more of a disgrace.

Physicians who in the U.S. would be dragged into court are, under the Norwegian system, reported to a local board consisting of their own colleagues – who are also, not infrequently, their longtime friends.

(The government health system's own website puts it this way: if you suspect malpractice, you have the right to “ask the Norwegian Board of Health Supervision in your county to evaluate” your claims.)

As a result, doctors who should be forcibly retired, if not incarcerated, end up with a slap on the wrist. When patients are awarded financial damages, the sums – paid by the state, not the doctor – are insultingly small.
------------

Take the case of Peter Franks, whose doctor sent him home twice despite a tennis-ball-sized lump in his chest that was oozing blood and pus – and that turned out to be a cancer that was diagnosed too late to save his life. Apropos of Franks's case, a jurist who specializes in patients' rights lamented that the Norwegian health-care system responds to sky-high malpractice figures “with a shrug,” and the dying Franks himself pronounced last year that “the responsibility for malpractice has been pulverized in Norway,” saying that “if I could have sued the doctor, I would have. Other doctors would have read about the lawsuit in the newspaper. Then they would have taken greater care to avoid making such a mistake themselves. But doctors in Norway don't have to take responsibility for their mistakes. The state does it.” After a three-year legal struggle, Franks was awarded 2.7 million kroner by the Norwegian government – about half a million dollars.

Another aspect of Norway's guild-like health-care system is that although the country suffers from a severe deficit of doctors, nurses, and midwives, the medical establishment makes it next to impossible for highly qualified foreign members of these professions to get certified to practice in Norway. The daughter of a friend of mine got a nursing degree at the University of North Dakota in 2009 but, as reported last Friday by NRK, is working in Seattle because the Norwegian authorities in charge of these matters – who have refused to be interviewed on this subject by NRK – have stubbornly denied her a license. Why? My guess is that the answer has a lot to do with three things: competence, competition, and control. If there were a surplus of doctors and nurses instead of a shortage, the good ones would drive out the bad. Plainly, such a situation must be avoided at all costs – including the cost of human lives.

Then there's the waiting lists. At the beginning of 2012, over 281,000 patients in Norway, out of a population of five million, were awaiting treatment for some medical problem or other. Bureaucratic absurdities run rampant, as exemplified by thisAftenposten story from earlier this year:

 

[2aguy]

They can't afford the taxes necessary to pay for the system they have and afford a system similar to ours.

If you went to Britain or any nation with national healthcare and suggested to people that they'd be better off doing it like we do they'd laugh in your face.

Care to prove that?
I can prove that Canada is experiencing extremely long wait times to see doctors. That they are also seeing a decline in nursing staff. That they have a shortage of doctors and hospital rooms.
I can prove that Britian is facing a problem with certain hospitals only serving older citizens. I can show you that they are experiencing a money shortage for their healthcare.
I can show that those that can afford it come to the U.S. for treatment.

There are Scandinavian countries with an over 90% approval rating of their public healthcare. The fact that the people there love it and don't want it to go anywhere, just improve, speaks for itself. The idea that they're just too ignorant to see that our way is better is fucking ludicrous. Our healthcare is only the best if you're rich and can afford to pay the most gifted doctors in the world to help you. Public healthcare options are better for the public at large. That's why people there love it and it's why it will never go away, ever. You people have been shouting that their system will collapse any second now for fucking decades. It won't though. It's not going to go away. No, it's not perfect and nothing can be, but they will never stop doing it. They will only seek to improve it. Also anecdotally I have been to Europe and talk to Europeans. They think we are fucking crazy.

I think we all have seen how polls are unreliable. Don't you think?

Instead of listening to what they say, take a look at what they do. If the European system's were so great, the rich and powerful wouldn't need to come here.

Now would they.

And again...without the United States paying for their national defense, their medical innovation and drug development.....their systems would have crashed already....

 

[2aguy]

They can't afford the taxes necessary to pay for the system they have and afford a system similar to ours.

If you went to Britain or any nation with national healthcare and suggested to people that they'd be better off doing it like we do they'd laugh in your face.

Care to prove that?
I can prove that Canada is experiencing extremely long wait times to see doctors. That they are also seeing a decline in nursing staff. That they have a shortage of doctors and hospital rooms.
I can prove that Britian is facing a problem with certain hospitals only serving older citizens. I can show you that they are experiencing a money shortage for their healthcare.
I can show that those that can afford it come to the U.S. for treatment.

There are Scandinavian countries with an over 90% approval rating of their public healthcare. The fact that the people there love it and don't want it to go anywhere, just improve, speaks for itself. The idea that they're just too ignorant to see that our way is better is fucking ludicrous. Our healthcare is only the best if you're rich and can afford to pay the most gifted doctors in the world to help you. Public healthcare options are better for the public at large. That's why people there love it and it's why it will never go away, ever. You people have been shouting that their system will collapse any second now for fucking decades. It won't though. It's not going to go away. No, it's not perfect and nothing can be, but they will never stop doing it. They will only seek to improve it. Also anecdotally I have been to Europe and talk to Europeans. They think we are fucking crazy.

You are wrong....you just have to look to see....

‘Socialist’ Nordic Countries Are Actually Moving Toward Private Health Care

These are precisely the things Medicare for All would abolish. It’s intriguing that while socialists in America would rush to nationalize the health care system, Norwegians, Swedes, and Danes are all gradually increasing their use of private health insurance.

Between 2006 and 2016, the portion of the population covered by private insurance increased by 4% in Sweden, 7% in Norway, and 22% in Denmark.

The increases in Sweden and Norway are modest but noteworthy, considering that most out-of-pocket payments have a relatively low annual limit.

Private plans in Sweden and Norway are mainly designed to supplement the government-run plan.

In addition to covering out-of-pocket costs, these plans also guarantee prompt access to specialists or elective procedures, which the state plans often fail to provide.

Denmark also allows “complementary” insurance plans, which cover services that are partially or not at all covered by the national system, including dental and vision services.

This growing European interest in private health insurance typically stems from dissatisfaction with the state-run systems, which often provide poor or incomplete coverage and long wait times.

By contrast, private plans offer wider coverage, shorter wait times, access to private facilities, and more flexibility in patient choice.

For instance, in a 2009 survey, nearly half of Danes felt waiting times were unreasonable while only about a third disagreed. In 2007, the Danish government enacted a wait time guarantee of one month to receive treatment.

Most of the private health insurance in Denmark, as well as in Sweden and Norway, is employer-based. In Denmark, the increase in private insurance is likely due, in part, to employers seeking to recruit top-tier talent by including health coverage as part of a benefits package.

In turn, private insurers make a strong pitch to employers, informing them that having private coverage minimizes their employees’ time lost to illness and ensures they have prompt access to medical care.

 

[Toro]

When Canadian subject Alex Trebek came down with his pancreatic problems, he consulted with American doctors instead of standing in line in Saskatoon.

Alex Trebek has lived in LA for 30 years. So it's not surprising he'd get treatment in the States.

As someone who's family is from Saskatoon, I'll tell you this about about the US and Canadian systems. The US system has the most advanced treatment in the world. And as an upper middle-class person living in the US, I'd rather be in the US for medical care than in Canada. But if I were lower middle class or poor, I'd rather be in Canada.

A friend of mine from MBA was living in NYC and moved back to Canada when she had to quit her job due to medical reasons because she could get better treatment in Canada in the US and didn't have medical coverage in the US.

 

[Polishprince]

Most of the private health insurance in Denmark, as well as in Sweden and Norway, is employer-based. In Denmark, the increase in private insurance is likely due, in part, to employers seeking to recruit top-tier talent by including health coverage as part of a benefits package.

In turn, private insurers make a strong pitch to employers, informing them that having private coverage minimizes their employees’ time lost to illness and ensures they have prompt access to medical care.

This is what people really want. Top-tier medical talent to take care of them if they are really sick.

Some governmental Dr. Feel Good that writes out scrips for 100 oxys or vykes for a stubbed toe is fine for someone who is young and in good health. But is someone is really sick, they want a doctor who knows what they are doing.

 

[Confounding]

You seem to think that only the rich can get medical treatment in the U.S. Hate to throw a wrench into your whole narrative there but with my Blue Cross Blue shield I can go to any hospital any doctor. I am not limited to some backyard dog kennel. I don't have to go to a special hospital only because I am old. I don't have to wait eight months or over a year to see a doctor.

I have insurance on my vehicles, my house even my life. I realize that some think it is worth the risk of not having health insurance is a good trade off to having that new iPhone or eating out every week.

European healthcare is a lot better than you understand. It's a lot better than your politically motivated sources will admit. Also they still have private options if necessary. If it were trash and people weren't getting help other than in isolated anecdotal situations it wouldn't be so popular. I have been to the UK, Denmark and Sweden. I have talked politics with people and have expressed the point of view U.S right wingers have in regard to their healthcare. The people that live there laugh at the shit you say because you're ignorant. They are not ignorant; you are. No system is perfect, including theirs. You could find horror stories and anecdotes to push any position in politics. That's all that's being done in the articles you use to reinforce what you already believe. The fact of the matter however is that their public options do a lot of good for people that need it, and the public would never support the removal of public options. That will never happen, ever. Keep shouting from the rooftops that their system will fall apart any minute. Shout until you're blue in the face. They're laughing at you though. Public healthcare in Europe will never go away. It's only a matter of time until we do something similar.

 

[2aguy]

You seem to think that only the rich can get medical treatment in the U.S. Hate to throw a wrench into your whole narrative there but with my Blue Cross Blue shield I can go to any hospital any doctor. I am not limited to some backyard dog kennel. I don't have to go to a special hospital only because I am old. I don't have to wait eight months or over a year to see a doctor.

I have insurance on my vehicles, my house even my life. I realize that some think it is worth the risk of not having health insurance is a good trade off to having that new iPhone or eating out every week.

European healthcare is a lot better than you understand. It's a lot better than your politically motivated sources will admit. Also they still have private options if necessary. If it were trash and people weren't getting help it wouldn't be so popular. I have been to the UK, Denmark and Sweden. I have talked politics with people and have expressed the point of view U.S right wingers have in regard to their healthcare. The people that live there laugh at the shit you say because you're ignorant. They are not ignorant; you are. No system is perfect, including theirs. You could find horror stories and anecdotes to push any position in politics. That's all that's being done in the articles you use to reinforce what you already believe. The fact of the matter however is that their public options do a lot of good for people that need it, and the public would never support the removal of public options. That will never happen, ever. Keep shouting from the rooftops that their system will fall apart any minute. Shout until you lose your voice. They're laughing at you though. Public healthcare in Europe will never go away. It's only a matter of time until we do something similar.

Moron, public healthcare in Europe is crashing...they can't afford it. Their social welfare states are eating up all of their money, and if not for the U.S. they would have crashed a long time ago....

 

[Confounding]

Moron, public healthcare in Europe is crashing...they can't afford it. Their social welfare states are eating up all of their money, and if not for the U.S. they would have crashed a long time ago....

Any day now the Europeans will give up on public healthcare...

Any day...you'll see...

 

[Polishprince]

Public healthcare in Europe will never go away. It's only a matter of time until we do something similar.

Public clinics hire a lot of people, its about their jobs.

Decent physicians can emigrate to America or other free nations to practice. Quacks who work for the clinics don't have that option.

Further, most people aren't sick and don't really need qualified doctors. A Quack can write a scrip just like a decent doc.

 

[westwall]

You seem to think that only the rich can get medical treatment in the U.S. Hate to throw a wrench into your whole narrative there but with my Blue Cross Blue shield I can go to any hospital any doctor. I am not limited to some backyard dog kennel. I don't have to go to a special hospital only because I am old. I don't have to wait eight months or over a year to see a doctor.

I have insurance on my vehicles, my house even my life. I realize that some think it is worth the risk of not having health insurance is a good trade off to having that new iPhone or eating out every week.

European healthcare is a lot better than you understand. It's a lot better than your politically motivated sources will admit. Also they still have private options if necessary. If it were trash and people weren't getting help other than in isolated anecdotal situations it wouldn't be so popular. I have been to the UK, Denmark and Sweden. I have talked politics with people and have expressed the point of view U.S right wingers have in regard to their healthcare. The people that live there laugh at the shit you say because you're ignorant. They are not ignorant; you are. No system is perfect, including theirs. You could find horror stories and anecdotes to push any position in politics. That's all that's being done in the articles you use to reinforce what you already believe. The fact of the matter however is that their public options do a lot of good for people that need it, and the public would never support the removal of public options. That will never happen, ever. Keep shouting from the rooftops that their system will fall apart any minute. Shout until you're blue in the face. They're laughing at you though. Public healthcare in Europe will never go away. It's only a matter of time until we do something similar.

Once again, if it were so great, why do the rich and powerful come here?

 

[Polishprince]

You seem to think that only the rich can get medical treatment in the U.S. Hate to throw a wrench into your whole narrative there but with my Blue Cross Blue shield I can go to any hospital any doctor. I am not limited to some backyard dog kennel. I don't have to go to a special hospital only because I am old. I don't have to wait eight months or over a year to see a doctor.

I have insurance on my vehicles, my house even my life. I realize that some think it is worth the risk of not having health insurance is a good trade off to having that new iPhone or eating out every week.

European healthcare is a lot better than you understand. It's a lot better than your politically motivated sources will admit. Also they still have private options if necessary. If it were trash and people weren't getting help other than in isolated anecdotal situations it wouldn't be so popular. I have been to the UK, Denmark and Sweden. I have talked politics with people and have expressed the point of view U.S right wingers have in regard to their healthcare. The people that live there laugh at the shit you say because you're ignorant. They are not ignorant; you are. No system is perfect, including theirs. You could find horror stories and anecdotes to push any position in politics. That's all that's being done in the articles you use to reinforce what you already believe. The fact of the matter however is that their public options do a lot of good for people that need it, and the public would never support the removal of public options. That will never happen, ever. Keep shouting from the rooftops that their system will fall apart any minute. Shout until you're blue in the face. They're laughing at you though. Public healthcare in Europe will never go away. It's only a matter of time until we do something similar.

Once again, if it were so great, why do the rich and powerful come here?

Its not just the "rich and powerful" by any stretch of the imagination.

I was getting a medical test at the Cleveland Clinic maybe 15 years ago or so. While I was in there, getting injected with dye or something in the office, the staff had a world map on the wall with a stick pin for where all of their patients they had in this one office came from. All four corners of the earth were represented, all of those people weren't "rich and powerful" I don't think.

 

[Confounding]

Once again, if it were so great, why do the rich and powerful come here?

How many times and in how many different ways do I have to address the same talking points? I already conceded that at the very top end U.S healthcare is the best. The rich and powerful come here because they are rich and powerful and can afford to fly across the globe to pay for the best care money can buy. Are you suggesting that if Europe did what we do the top end of their healthcare would be equal to our own and rich people wouldn't fly here for care? Are you suggesting that if we implemented a public option for those that need it our healthcare would cease to be the best at the top end and rich people wouldn't fly here for care? Both are equally ridiculous. A public option wouldn't prevent you from having access to excellent care. Our private care will continue to be the best in the world regardless of public options. You wouldn't have to wait in lines in the snow to get a procedure you need. I am also quite sure that if we really wanted to our public options could be way better than the European ones that Europeans are already very happy with. Why? Because we're fucking awesome and we can do anything better than Europe does.

The argument was never that at the top of the top European healthcare is better. The argument was that for people that can't afford the best healthcare in the world (most people) a public option is very useful. That's why nations that have done it will never stop working on public options. It would be the same here if we tried it. It'd end up being a huge boon to people and we would never go back. If we actually implemented public options I bet people like you would realize they work just fine. You'd go and use them and not worry about it because it wouldn't be a problem. You are convinced of shit that just isn't realistic. Your perspective is flawed and motivated by partisan bullshit. Public options are extremely useful and it is only a matter of time until we have one.

 

[pknopp]

We have great healthcare..........for those who can afford it. Unfortunately many can not. I find it sad that we can continue to fund or not actually fund bail outs and bombs but not health care.

I suppose being alive and broke is better than not being alive but why should that be the choice?

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy

 

[Confounding]

Its not just the "rich and powerful" by any stretch of the imagination.

I was getting a medical test at the Cleveland Clinic maybe 15 years ago or so. While I was in there, getting injected with dye or something in the office, the staff had a world map on the wall with a stick pin for where all of their patients they had in this one office came from. All four corners of the earth were represented, all of those people weren't "rich and powerful" I don't think.

Most ordinary people cannot afford to fly across the globe to get world class healthcare in another country.

 

[Polishprince]

Its not just the "rich and powerful" by any stretch of the imagination.

I was getting a medical test at the Cleveland Clinic maybe 15 years ago or so. While I was in there, getting injected with dye or something in the office, the staff had a world map on the wall with a stick pin for where all of their patients they had in this one office came from. All four corners of the earth were represented, all of those people weren't "rich and powerful" I don't think.

Most ordinary people cannot afford to fly across the globe to get world class healthcare in another country.

A lot of the foreign patients are undoubtably politically well connected. If Macron is sick or one of his close relatives, do you think he'd risk getting treated in the Paris House of Pestilence?