Can you be a truly good Christian, yet be against universal healthcare?

[Dogger]

I notice how you completely blaze right by Medicare's demise or the inefficiency of the government.

Had you confined your post to those matters, I would have responded to them.

If you want a response, stop distorting my comments and setting up straw men. It's tedious, it's tiring, and it diminishes my belief in your ability and your willingness to debate intelligently.

I will knock down your straw men or debate relevant points. I have no inclination to do both.

 

[Gunny]

We will only get an inefficient system if obstructionists in your party participate. The GOP tries to make government fail to bolster their ideology at the expense of human beings.

One more time - I advocate a system that replaces the insurance companies and leaves medical professionals alone. Medicare for all.

Bullshit. We will get an inefficient system no matter what, and trying to blame it on the right is just what I said ... bullshit.

Who the fuck are any of you to bleed my wallet for your pathetic little causes to prop up the weak? Liberals my ass. Y'all are as authoritarian as it gets. You just choose different agendas to force on others than the right does; otherwise, there is no difference between you at all.

 

[jreeves]

Had you confined your post to those matters, I would have responded to them.

If you want a response, stop distorting my comments and setting up straw men. It's tedious, it's tiring, and it diminishes my belief in your ability and your willingness to debate intelligently.

I will knock down your straw men or debate relevant points. I have no inclination to do both.

Again, I notice how you don't respond to the demise of Medicare and the inefficiency of the government. But do try and cloud the debate with parisan attacks and your charges of straw men.

 

[Dogger]

Again, I notice how you don't respond to the demise of Medicare and the inefficiency of the government. But do try and cloud the debate with parisan attacks and your charges of straw men.

Please direct me to your thoughful response about Billy Tauzin and how he corrupted the program for his own gain.

You do rely on straw men. You said I "believe it's all the Republicans". That's an aburd idea, and one that is easy for you to knock down; a straw man. Try knocking down my ideas instead of your cartoonish distortions, and I'll treat you as more than a waste of my time.

You are wrong about Medicare. That's all you've earned from me. Until you respond to my points, you can shove your points up your ass.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Please direct me to your thoughful response about Billy Tauzin and how he corrupted the program for his own gain.

You do rely on straw men. You said I "believe it's all the Republicans". That's an aburd idea, and one that is easy for you to knock down; a straw man. Try knocking down my ideas instead of your cartoonish distortions, and I'll treat you as more than a waste of my time.

You are wrong about Medicare. That's all you've earned from me. Until you respond to my points, you can shove your points up your ass.

The last refuge of a loser and a retard, when unable to respond try to claim the other guy went off topic.

 

[Dogger]

The last refuge of a loser and a retard, when unable to respond try to claim the other guy went off topic.

better to be off topic than off your meds.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

better to be off topic than off your meds.

And there is the other idiotic attempt to deflect. You have no response so instead try to change the subject, failing that you resort to petty insults in an effort to deflect from your own failures. Usual recourse of "your type".

 

[Dogger]

Had you confined your post to those matters, I would have responded to them.

If you want a response, stop distorting my comments and setting up straw men. It's tedious, it's tiring, and it diminishes my belief in your ability and your willingness to debate intelligently.

I will knock down your straw men or debate relevant points. I have no inclination to do both.

I think this is clear, even to you RetardedGySgt

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I think this is clear, even to you RetardedGySgt

He was ON topic you DUMB shit. Medicare for what ever reason is going Bankrupt , that means your desire for us all to have it is moroninc without addressing the fact the Government can NOT pay for it now with NOT everyone on it. That I have to spell that out to you dispells any claim on your part to being Smarter then the rest of us, idiot.

 

[Dogger]

I gave RetardedGySgt too much credit when I said this statement would be clear to him: "I will knock down your straw men or debate relevant points. I have no inclination to do both."

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I gave RetardedGySgt too much credit when I said this statement would be clear to him: "I will knock down your straw men or debate relevant points. I have no inclination to do both."

So you do not believe that Medicare is going broke? I see, Live in deniial all you want, the facts are evident, so evident even your 10 year old nephew would get it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Since January 2007 the Congress has been controlled by the Democrats. exactly how long before THEY are to blame for not passing legislation? And do not claim because they do not have 60 votes in the Senate they can not, since as far as I know the Republicans never had 60 votes in the Senate all during Bush's time as President, yet they managed to get things done. In fact YOU blame them for everything.

 

[jreeves]

Please direct me to your thoughful response about Billy Tauzin and how he corrupted the program for his own gain.

You do rely on straw men. You said I "believe it's all the Republicans". That's an aburd idea, and one that is easy for you to knock down; a straw man. Try knocking down my ideas instead of your cartoonish distortions, and I'll treat you as more than a waste of my time.

You are wrong about Medicare. That's all you've earned from me. Until you respond to my points, you can shove your points up your ass.

I stated that both sides waste money, Republicans and Democrats. Hence why we shouldn't trust them with our healthcare. I believe my questions were asked first, but being the toddler you are, I responded to make you feel good.

I am wrong about Medicare that's why just about every government report says it's going to go bankrupt. Also it's fact the government wastes at least 25% of our tax money, are you going to respond or continue to tap dance?

 

[Dogger]

So you do not believe that Medicare is going broke? I see, Live in deniial all you want, the facts are evident, so evident even your 10 year old nephew would get it.

He is a bright boy. He just graduated at the top of his elementary school class last week.

Medicare is in trouble as presently funded and structured. A huge part of that is the $80 Billion gift that Republican Billy Tauzin gave his current employers when he chaired the committee. Even without that, there are systemic problems that need fixing.

A big problem is that we have structured our system so that profitable patients are handled by private insurance companies while less profitable or unprofitable patients are dumped on public health care. In contrast, a proper insurance structure spreads shared risk over a larger population rather than a selected few. If we combined all systems into a single-payer public insurance system (replacing only insurance companies and not health care professionals), we could have better coverage for less money or a kick-ass best-in-the-world system for the same dollar cost.

Compare the US and France. Americans spend $3,724.00 per capita each year for a health care system that leaves over 40% of our population without insurance. France spends $2,125 per capita each year for a health care system that covers everyone. Even though the French pay only 57% of our per capita costs, the WHO ranks France as no. 1 in system performance and the US as no. 17.

They are covering everyone, for less money and doing it better to boot. There is no reason America cannot do the same or better.

 

[midcan5]

LOL - funny how quickly the wingnuts got away from the fundamental question concerning the golden rule and into 'commentary.' We can send a man to the moon but we can't take of each other, our environment, our children, our servicemen, or our future - but we can spend billions to kill. Seems a bit bizarre to me.


"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow men. That is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary." Talmud

 

[manifold]

Neither Manifold nor Jreeves in their replies face the fundamental position posed by the golden rule, they both bring up extraneous assumptions.

So then I guess we do have an answer, if one is a true Christian, and believes in the golden rule and would like healthcare, as I'm sure everyone would, then Yes, to be a genuine Christian you would have to support universal healthcare. Not to would be hypocritical.

I thought I did. Sorry you missed it.

Allow me to clarify: The golden rule CANNOT be applied to GOVERNMENT MANDATED UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE quite simply because it can very reasonably be argued to both follows AND violate the rule, thus creating an unresolvable conflict.

But to answer your question directly: Yes, I think refusing to care for the sick would violate the golden rule. And as far as I've EVER seen, this doesn't happen. Emergency rooms do not turn people away. As for the "prevenatative care" argument, my answer is NO. I would not expect anyone to provide me with any form of preventative care by law, therefore IMO it does not violate the Golden Rule.

Now, if you'd be so kind, can you answer my question directly? Is stealing a violation of the Golden Rule? A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[manifold]

"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow men. That is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary." Talmud

Indeed. It is hateful to me to rob from Peter to pay Paul.

You might find this hard to believe, but your "Golden Rule" argument has actually moved me more toward opposing UHC than supporting it. I've been on the fence about it for some time, but considering it from the rule perspective, I've concluded that UHC violates it more than it follows it.

Well done.

 

[jillian]

Indeed. It is hateful to me to rob from Peter to pay Paul.

You might find this hard to believe, but your "Golden Rule" argument has actually moved me more toward opposing UHC than supporting it. I've been on the fence about it for some time, but considering it from the rule perspective, I've concluded that UHC violates it more than it follows it.

Well done.

How do you figure it violates the rule more than follows it?

 

[Care4all]

Since January 2007 the Congress has been controlled by the Democrats. exactly how long before THEY are to blame for not passing legislation? And do not claim because they do not have 60 votes in the Senate they can not, since as far as I know the Republicans never had 60 votes in the Senate all during Bush's time as President, yet they managed to get things done. In fact YOU blame them for everything.

Explanation: Democratic Minority was willing to work with and compromise with, the republican majority, in order to get things accomplished and most importantly to not be blasted by the republicans for filibustering abusively, OBSTRUCTIONISTS,...turning them in to wusses...only filibustering a handfull of times, but the Republican Minority is unwilling to do such, to compromise with the Democratic Majority to get things accomplished and has abusively, truely abusively, filibuster more than 59% of all legislation i had last heard....their thinking that this is their ONLY HOPE in being re-elected in 2008 is to say the Dems can't accomplish anything in Congress?

Come on Ret Sgt, certainly you know politics better than you appeared to in this post....?

hmmmmmmm....hahahahahaha....or maybe your answer WAS... ALL about politics....? lol

 

[manifold]

How do you figure it violates the rule more than follows it?

Forcing others to follow the golden rule, as you determine it to be, is to violate the golden rule.

If you want to get really philosophical and absolute about it, taxation for any purpose violates the golden rule.