Can someone call the cases when Putin lied?

[cnm]

Ah. So I guess the translation of Russian 'great communicator' is 'inveterate liar'. Sorted.

 

[Lewdog]

Military police and special OP forces aren't land forces? Do you have cabbage for brains?

In Russian military terms - no. Russia's participation in the land war in Syria implies the use of a regular army. But there is no such thing in Syria. With the translation of terms you should always be more careful. And then we can say that Russia is leading a war in Syria. Because Russian aviation belongs to the kind of army "Russian air and space forces". And then you still and the downed pilot, who is fighting with the islamists, write down in the Russian land operation.

Well glad to see you are just another brainwashed dipshit like so many in Russia.

 

[cnelsen]

I'm tired of constantly facing Putin's accusations of lying with the absence of any examples. I do not rule out that this is possible, because a big policy without lies - it almost never happens. Western politicians lie very often and we all know such examples, from Colin Powell's test tube to the statements of Boris Johnson. But I do not remember cases when Putin was convicted of proven lies. Maybe I do not know such cases and will you tell them to me?

Ah, you want cases of when Putin was CONVICTED of lying huh?

Putin could kill 1000 people right outside the Kremlin, have it recorded on TV for the whole of Russia to see, and he still wouldn't get convicted.

He meant "caught lying" you precious ninny. Answer his question, if you can.

 

[Balancer]

Well glad to see you are just another brainwashed dipshit like so many in Russia.

I'm glad to see that my opponents are only capable of insults. Hence, they have no arguments.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Putin and ‘normalised’ lies

Here again only accusations. And not one specific fact of lies.

The State Department channeled its inner Letterman with this Top 10 Russian lies about Ukraine list

At last concrete charges. I'll try to check.

Russian forces in Crimea are only acting to protect Russian military assets. It is “citizens’ defense groups,” not Russian forces, who have seized infrastructure and military facilities in Crimea

What did Putin himself say about this:

Владимир Путин, президент РФ: «За спиной сил самообороны Крыма, конечно, встали наши военнослужащие. Они действовали очень корректно, но, как я уже сказал, решительно и профессионально».

Путин: за спиной крымской самообороны стояли российские военные

Translation:

Behind the back of the self-defense forces of the Crimea, of course, our servicemen stood up. They acted very correctly, but, as I said, resolutely and professionally "

Putin does not deny the use of the Russian military during the declaration of the independence of the Crimea.

Russia’s actions fall within the scope of the 1997 Friendship Treaty between Ukraine and the Russian Federation.

...

The opposition failed to implement the Feb. 21 agreement with former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.

I did not find such words from Putin. Can you show me where he says it?

There is a humanitarian crisis and hundreds of thousands are fleeing Ukraine to Russia and seeking asylum.

In general, it is indicative that in this "set of examples of lies" there are no literal quotations of Putin. I also did not find this quote in his words. But here, just, there is no deception. In Russia, indeed, many Ukrainians fled. Now in our country about 2.5 million Ukrainians. Of these, 660,000 official refugees in 2015, according to the UN report.

http://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefwe...raine_situation_report_36_-_17_april_2015.pdf

...

It seems that again it did not turn out to be an example of Putin's lies.

It seems that again it did not turn out to be an example of Putin's lies.

??? Did this remark...

The thing about Putin is less about his lying and more about his treachery, deceitfulness and machinations to undermine from within democracies that oppose him or have the will and/or strength to marginalize him....Unlike Trump, Putin isn't generally given to lying about all things great and small. Specifically, the stuff he lies about tends to be stuff that only intelligence agencies can soundly/cogently refute, and in most instances, they cannot openly do so without compromising sources and methods.

...really not register with you?

 

[cnelsen]

That kind of proof will not be found with Putin. So you can believe what you wish and I will do the same.

In the absence of evidence, only the question of faith remains. And the faith is strongly influenced by propaganda. And especially those who hear only one side of the confrontation are vulnerable to propaganda.

I suppose the propaganda was bad during Soviet times. The China Daily is a joke. But for rank malice, treason, and gall, you can't beat American propaganda. In China, everyone knew it was propaganda. The idiots here swallow the bullshit hook, line and sinker. Just take note of all the imbeciles here on this board (and in the country at large) who fucking believe the Jewish-owned Washington Post's claim that Assad used chemical weapons on his own people while the opposition was in retreat. Fucking morons. Democracy sucks.

 

[cnelsen]

Well glad to see you are just another brainwashed dipshit like so many in Russia.

I'm glad to see that my opponents are only capable of insults. Hence, they have no arguments.

Ignore Lewdog. He's just an ill-bred spiteful Jew who hates Putin and Russia because they are Christian.

 

[Balancer]

...really not register with you?

I did not see anything in this message about the facts of Putin's direct lie. And I have already written several times about the fact that direct lie and hypothetical tyranny do not correlate.

 

[cnm]

Hence, they have no arguments.

Are you not allowed to admit he lied about Trump?

 

[Balancer]

Are you not allowed to admit he lied about Trump?

Sorry, got confused in mutual quotes. What exactly did Putin lie about Trump? Give an exact quote, please.

 

[Lewdog]

Well glad to see you are just another brainwashed dipshit like so many in Russia.

I'm glad to see that my opponents are only capable of insults. Hence, they have no arguments.

Ignore Lewdog. He's just an ill-bred spiteful Jew who hates Putin and Russia because they are Christian.

I'm a Jew?? Damn I never knew!

 

[usmbguest5318]

...really not register with you?

I did not see anything in this message about the facts of Putin's direct lie. And I have already written several times about the fact that direct lie and hypothetical tyranny do not correlate.

Had I known you are a Putin sycophant, I'd have from the get go posted what my "better angels" dissuaded me from posting at that juncture.....

​

 

[Balancer]

Had I known you are a Putin sycophant ...

You should be ready for this one right away, as you see "Russia" under the avatar of the interlocutor. Do not forget that every 3 out of 4 Russians directly support Putin. You can explain for yourself this anything, by brainwashing, stupidity of Russians or genetic deviations of Russians, but this will not change the fact of the Russians' attitude to their president.

 

[cnm]

Give an exact quote, please.

Sorry, that will be in Russian, which I don't speak. So it probably translates as 'inveterate liar'.

 

[Litwin]

I'm tired of constantly facing Putin's accusations of lying with the absence of any examples. I do not rule out that this is possible, because a big policy without lies - it almost never happens. Western politicians lie very often and we all know such examples, from Colin Powell's test tube to the statements of Boris Johnson. But I do not remember cases when Putin was convicted of proven lies. Maybe I do not know such cases and will you tell them to me?

 

[Balancer]

Give an exact quote, please.

Sorry, that will be in Russian, which I don't speak. So it probably translates as 'inveterate liar'.

No, I'm not asking for an exact quote from Putin in Russian Give an exact quote in English translation, and I'll try to understand what it was, and so on or not.

Notice. I do not claim that Putin has never lied. And I'm not saying that I believe that he never lies. I just write about the fact that I have never encountered Putin's direct lies. And if you show a direct example of such a case - I agree with you.

In fact, everything is still more complicated. Even in Russian, Putin is often called a liar. Opposition, Ukrainian trolls, etc. But when you try to get to the source, it has always turned out that the words that are attributed to him are either distorted or even fictitious. But people often believe in what the other person is saying without any verification. Or they confuse the desired with the real.

For example, take the annual address of Putin to the federal assembly. Very often he is accused of lying. "Putin promised us this and that, and this is not!". But the fact of the matter is that in the address Putin never promises anything. It only talks about the direction in which it is planned to develop the country's politics and economy. He calls the goals for development. But he never promises that these goals will be achieved This can be called anything, but not a lie. If, for example, I say that I will quit smoking, but I will not leave it - it will be a fraud. If I say that I will try to quit smoking, and indeed, I will take some steps for this, but I will not be able to do this, for example, because of lack of willpower - this is no longer a fraud.

Another example is the "withdrawal of troops from Syria" and "the end of the war in Syria". It is often claimed that Putin claimed this, but this did not happen. But he never claimed this. During his visit to Syria, Putin announced victory over ISIS. And this is so - ISIS as the state is crushed. There remained the Islamists, there remained the "Syrian opposition", but ISIS is no longer a player on this scene. And it was announced about the reduction of the Russian group in Syria by one third. And this is also so, the first aircraft returned to Russia the next day, and the whole process was completed in a few days. But Putin did not talk about the full withdrawal of Russian troops from Syria. Moreover, more than once it was stressed that Russia had concluded contracts for leasing military bases in Syria. And it was never said that the war in Syria is dead. But Putin is constantly trying to call a fraud about this.

I suspect that his corresponding aura in the West is exactly the same result of propaganda, divorced from reality. And while no one refuted my version.

 

[cnelsen]

...really not register with you?

I did not see anything in this message about the facts of Putin's direct lie. And I have already written several times about the fact that direct lie and hypothetical tyranny do not correlate.

Had I known you are a Putin sycophant, I'd have from the get go posted what my "better angels" dissuaded me from posting at that juncture.....

​

What a dishonest post. Since you aren't able to actually answer his question, you accuse him of being a "sycophant" and then pretend you are therefore refusing to answer on principle. Sad.

 

[cnelsen]

Give an exact quote, please.

Sorry, that will be in Russian, which I don't speak. So it probably translates as 'inveterate liar'.

No, I'm not asking for an exact quote from Putin in Russian Give an exact quote in English translation, and I'll try to understand what it was, and so on or not.

Notice. I do not claim that Putin has never lied. And I'm not saying that I believe that he never lies. I just write about the fact that I have never encountered Putin's direct lies. And if you show a direct example of such a case - I agree with you.

In fact, everything is still more complicated. Even in Russian, Putin is often called a liar. Opposition, Ukrainian trolls, etc. But when you try to get to the source, it has always turned out that the words that are attributed to him are either distorted or even fictitious. But people often believe in what the other person is saying without any verification. Or they confuse the desired with the real.

For example, take the annual address of Putin to the federal assembly. Very often he is accused of lying. "Putin promised us this and that, and this is not!". But the fact of the matter is that in the address Putin never promises anything. It only talks about the direction in which it is planned to develop the country's politics and economy. He calls the goals for development. But he never promises that these goals will be achieved This can be called anything, but not a lie. If, for example, I say that I will quit smoking, but I will not leave it - it will be a fraud. If I say that I will try to quit smoking, and indeed, I will take some steps for this, but I will not be able to do this, for example, because of lack of willpower - this is no longer a fraud.

Another example is the "withdrawal of troops from Syria" and "the end of the war in Syria". It is often claimed that Putin claimed this, but this did not happen. But he never claimed this. During his visit to Syria, Putin announced victory over ISIS. And this is so - ISIS as the state is crushed. There remained the Islamists, there remained the "Syrian opposition", but ISIS is no longer a player on this scene. And it was announced about the reduction of the Russian group in Syria by one third. And this is also so, the first aircraft returned to Russia the next day, and the whole process was completed in a few days. But Putin did not talk about the full withdrawal of Russian troops from Syria. Moreover, more than once it was stressed that Russia had concluded contracts for leasing military bases in Syria. And it was never said that the war in Syria is dead. But Putin is constantly trying to call a fraud about this.

I suspect that his corresponding aura in the West is exactly the same result of propaganda, divorced from reality. And while no one refuted my version.

Democracy is a menace. Even now, every politician and media source is screaming about Assad using chemical weapons and everyone just goes along with it. But a reasonably intelligent fourteen-year-old could see how absurd it would be for a dictator who has just won a civil war to then use poison gas on the very rebels to whom it is now in his interest to grant amnesty. The HUGE and OBVIOUS MOST LIKELY source of the chemical weapons are the criminals of the Israeli Defense Farce. Only PUTIN has told the truth about this attack, yet the (((traitorous vipers))) in this country shriek that he is a liar and HE is the threat. Come on, Americans...free yourselves.

 

[Litwin]

"
Putin's 'Top 10' Lies On Ukraine

1.Russia Claims: Russian agents are not active in Ukraine.

Fact: The Ukrainian Government has arrested more than a dozen suspected Russian intelligence agents in recent weeks, many of whom were armed at the time of arrest. In the first week of April 2014, the Government of Ukraine had information that Russian GRU officers were providing individuals in Kharkiv and Donetsk with advice and instructions on conducting protests, capturing and holding government buildings, seizing weapons from the government buildings' armories, and redeploying for other violent actions. On April 12, armed pro-Russian militants seized government buildings in a coordinated and professional operation conducted in six cities in eastern Ukraine. Many were outfitted in bullet-proof vests, camouflage uniforms with insignia removed, and carrying Russian-designed weapons like AK-74s and Dragunovs. These armed units, some wearing black and orange St. George's ribbons associated with Russian Victory Day celebrations, raised Russian and separatist flags over seized buildings and have called for referendums on secession and union with Russia. These operations are strikingly similar to those used against Ukrainian facilities during Russia's illegal military intervention in Crimea in late February and its subsequent occupation.

2.Russia Claims: Pro-Russia demonstrations are comprised exclusively of Ukrainian citizens acting of their own volition, like the Maidan movement in Kyiv.

Fact: This is not the grassroots Ukrainian civic activism of the EuroMaidan movement, which grew from a handful of student protestors to hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians from all parts of the country and all walks of life. Russian internet sites openly are recruiting volunteers to travel from Russia to Ukraine and incite violence. There is evidence that many of these so-called "protesters" are paid for their participation in the violence and unrest. It is clear that these incidents are not spontaneous events, but rather part of a well-orchestrated Russian campaign of incitement, separatism, and sabotage of the Ukrainian state. Ukrainian authorities continue to arrest highly trained and well-equipped Russian provocateurs operating across the region.

3.Russia Claims: Separatist leaders in eastern Ukraine enjoy broad popular support.

Fact: The recent demonstrations in eastern Ukraine are not organic and lack wide support in the region. A large majority of Donetsk residents (65.7 percent) want to live in a united Ukraine and reject unification with Russia, according to public opinion polls conducted at the end of March by the Donetsk-based Institute of Social Research and Policy Analysis. Pro-Russian demonstrations in eastern Ukraine have been modest in size, especially compared with Maidan protests in these same cities in December, and they have gotten smaller as time has progressed.

4.Russia Claims: The situation in eastern Ukraine risks spiraling into civil war.

Fact: What is going on in eastern Ukraine would not be happening without Russian disinformation and provocateurs fostering unrest. It would not be happening if a large Russian military force were not massed on the border, destabilizing the situation through their overtly threatening presence. There simply have not been large-scale protests in the region. A small number of separatists have seized several government buildings in eastern cities like Donetsk, Luhansk, and Slovyansk, but they have failed to attract any significant popular support. Ukrainian authorities have shown remarkable restraint in their efforts to resolve the situation and only acted when provoked by armed militants and public safety was put at risk. Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) observers have reported that these incidents are very localized.

5. Russia Claims: Ukrainians in Donetsk rejected the illegitimate authorities in Kyiv and established the independent "People's Republic of Donetsk."

Fact: A broad and representative collection of civil society and non-governmental organizations in Donetsk categorically rejected the declaration of a "People's Republic of Donetsk" by the small number of separatists occupying the regional administration building. These same organizations confirmed their support for the interim government and for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.

6. Russia Claims: Russia ordered a"partial drawdown" of troops from the Ukrainian border.

Fact: No evidence shows significant movement of Russian forces away from the Ukrainian border. One battalion is not enough. An estimated 35,000-40,000 Russian troops remain massed along the border, in addition to approximately 25,000 troops currently in Crimea.

7. Russia Claims: Ethnic Russians in Ukraine are under threat.

Fact: There are no credible reports of ethnic Russians facing threats in Ukraine. An International Republic Institute poll released April 5 found that 74 percent of the Russian-speaking population in the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine said they "were not under pressure or threat because of their language." Meanwhile, in Crimea, the OSCE has raised urgent concerns for the safety of minority populations, especially ethnic Ukrainians, Crimean Tatars, and others. Sadly, the ethnic Russians most at risk are those who live in Russia and who oppose the authoritarian Putin regime. These Russians are harassed constantly and face years of imprisonment for speaking out against Putin's regular abuses of power.

8. Russia Claims: Ukraine's new government is led by r adical nationalists and fascists.

Fact: The Ukrainian parliament (Rada) did not change in February. It is the same Rada that was elected by all Ukrainians, comprising all of the parties that existed prior to February's events, including former president Yanukovych's Party of Regions. The new government, approved by an overwhelming majority in the parliament -- including many members of Yanukovych's former party -- is committed to protecting the rights of all Ukrainians, including those in Crimea.

9. Russia Claims:Ethnic minorities face persecution in Ukraine from the "fascist" government in Kyiv.

Fact: Leaders of Ukraine's Jewish as well as German, Czech, and Hungarian communities have all publicly expressed their sense of safety under the new authorities in Kyiv. Moreover, many minority groups expressed fear of persecution in Russian-occupied Crimea, a concern OSCE observers in Ukraine have substantiated.

10. Russia Claims: Russia is not using energy and trade as weapons against Ukraine.

Fact: Following Russia's illegal annexation and occupation of Crimea, Russia raised the price Ukraine pays for natural gas by 80 percent in the past two weeks. In addition, it is seeking more than $11 billion in back payments following its abrogation of the 2010 Kharkiv accords. Russia's moves threaten to increase severely the economic pain faced by Ukrainian citizens and businesses. Additionally, Russia continues to restrict Ukrainian exports to Russia, which constitute a significant portion of Ukraine's export economy."

The State Department Put Out Another Listicle Of Putin's 'Top 10' Lies On Ukraine

 

[Litwin]