Can Christianity Stand By Itself?

[emilynghiem]

Could Christianity stand by itself?

nope.....needs God.....

Hey, now THIS is a very wise answer!

If you take the love of truth and justice and peace for all
and add it to any law or religion then it is fulfilled.

If you take it OUT then you can make a mess out of that system,
following the letter of the law, but missing the SPIRIT of the laws.

Very good! I get this!!!

 

[emilynghiem]

Christianity is not autonomous from Judaism so long as the Jewish Bible, the OT is in every version of the Christian Bible, nor is it when Christians quote and use the OT.

We don't observe any of the Jewish customs. None of them, except maybe for Passover. I can tell you first hand, being a Christian and all. Just because the OT happens to contain the Torah, doesn't mean we function in the same manner as Jews. We don't even follow any of the 600+ old laws set before the Israelites in the OT. We don't fast, nor do we wear special attire. We don't have Bar Mitzvahs for our children, the Jews don't Baptize their believers. We believe in the risen Lord, they are still waiting for his return. So yes, we are quite autonomous from Judaism.

How very presumptuous of you.

Sounds like you're in some cult then and no official version or denomination of Christianity.

For your information, I am part of the Baptist denomination of Christianity. I take offense to you implying I am in a cult.

I am a successionist Baptist.

We split from NOBODY, we were there in the beginning, with John.

Utter nonsense. The protestant split from the RCC is where the splits in Christianity began.

Dear Derideo_Te:
1. the main split I find is between the Believers under Scriptural laws Jewish Christian and Muslim
who are going through a process to become united in Christ
and
the Secular Gentiles under Natural laws which include
nontheists/atheists, Constitutionalists and naturalists, secular humanists and ethicists,
logicians, social psychologists and scientists, sociologists, Buddhists etc.

BOTH these branches find fulfillment in Christ Jesus
The Natural Laws fulfilled in the spirit of Restorative Justice for peace and justice
The Spiritual/Sacred Laws fulfilled in the spirit of Salvation through truth and healing grace
that brings peace and justice.
Both the spiritual laws as taught in various religious approaches
and the natural laws as studied in science and the basis of secular and civil laws

The main split is between Church and State
BUT EVEN these two authorities of law are supposed to be balanced in harmony
like husband and wife, mother and father figures.

They are not supposed to be in conflict
but YES they are distinct authorities with separate jurisdictions to enforce their own laws.

Note: I find it curious that individually Muslims may fit with Christians with no divides,
but when it comes to collective identity, the Christians and Muslims tend to divide
and it is the Constitutional laws not the Bible Laws that may be used to unite
the Christians with the Muslims. For some reason, some Muslim leaders may fall
under the Secular Gentile Branch under Natural Laws rather than fit in
with the Jewish and Christian under Biblical laws. Very curious, I think the
JW also may "graft onto" the tree through the Constitutional branch and not
through the Biblical branch. It is still Jesus or Justice fulfilling all these laws
but some of the people who don't interpret Scripture as Christians do
may unite better under Constitutional laws that Jesus also fulfills as "Equal Justice"

2. All the other splits caused by tribal conflict
are supposed to be resolved. So DT if you
are going to pick apart the Church for splits
look at the Political Groups!!!!

Look at conservative Republicans and liberal Democrats
that are all Supposed to be under the same Constitution.

Can'lt agree if the ACA/Health Care bill is Constitutional.
Can't agree if progun control or pro choice or pro life is Constitutional.
Can't agree if regulations on drugs, immigration, MARRIAGE
is Constitutional.

So why just yell at Christians if they can't agree if Baptism is
necessary to be saved or just Grace alone, if you have to be
a member of JW or Catholic church to be a member of
THE CHURCH BODY and does anyone else count in salvation.

If you are going to void Christianity for splits
then all the political party system should be VOIDED.

DT you are a fair person.
If you criticize the Church please criticize the State
with the same vigor. Maybe we'd wake up and realize
we cannot afford these bogus conflicts but need to unite under the Law.

Thanks!

 

[emilynghiem]

Christianity is not autonomous from Judaism so long as the Jewish Bible, the OT is in every version of the Christian Bible, nor is it when Christians quote and use the OT.

We don't observe any of the Jewish customs. None of them, except maybe for Passover. I can tell you first hand, being a Christian and all. Just because the OT happens to contain the Torah, doesn't mean we function in the same manner as Jews. We don't even follow any of the 600+ old laws set before the Israelites in the OT. We don't fast, nor do we wear special attire. We don't have Bar Mitzvahs for our children, the Jews don't Baptize their believers. We believe in the risen Lord, they are still waiting for his return. So yes, we are quite autonomous from Judaism.

How very presumptuous of you.

Sounds like you're in some cult then and no official version or denomination of Christianity.

For your information, I am part of the Baptist denomination of Christianity. I take offense to you implying I am in a cult. So, what makes you an expert on the machinations of my faith? Hmm?

All religions are cults, TK! Look up the definition for yourself.

The alternative more sinister definition of the term cult derives from the abuse of religion in order to control people. Yes, even Baptists have their own versions of those cults too.

Dear Derideo_Te:
1. I think you are using CULT very loosely.
I tend to reserve the term for the dangerous Cults like the Satanic cults and gangs
that behead people along the border. If you use Cults for everything it's harder to distinguish the truly
dangerous groups that restrict and kill people for leaving the gangs or refusing to join.

2. Please make a distinction
between Theological Cult and Sociological Cult.
The best description I ever heard of the JW was they were Cultic but not a formal Cult.

So if you look into the deeper sociological definitions
of what constitutes a Cult, the experts will study the dynamics and history of a group
before they make such a determination between a
Theological and Sociological Cult.

A lot of people will call JW a cult but not other denominations that are free to join or to leave without issue.
And even the JW are not considered a cult by those who have studied them in depth.

3. Question Derideo_Te
Do you consider the Democrat Party a Cult?
The Texas Democrat Party specifically states
"We BELIEVE" that health care is a right so this is a Political Belief
or Political Religion!

Are you alarmed that a large group would use majority rule to
ESTABLISH a Political Belief for the Whole Nation as MANDATORY
so you HAVE to buy insurance through this system or pay a FINE to govt.
You do NOT have religious freedom or freedom of choice to pay for
health care any other way or you are FINED and Penalized by the IRS THROUGH GOVT.

Can you name any other CULT that has made something MANDATORY
through federal mandates enforced by FINES through the IRS?

If you want to say the Prolife movement is a CULT that is TRYING to
impose their views through govt, fine. But if you look, the Democrats
cut that down by yelling "separation of church and state" but instead
push their own BELIEFS about gay marriage and health care as a right through govt,
and don't allow for Equal Religious Freedom fro OTHER political beliefs in free market.

Which is more dangerous?
A religious cult that is not required by law to follow?
or a Political cult that can use the system to make
mandatory laws that citizens are REQUIRED to follow or pay fines to govt?

Which is a greater threat to natural freedom?
Your honest answer please!

 

[emilynghiem]

Gotta wonder at those claiming they're all distinct and independent from Judaism right in the middle of saying how they're denomination split off some previous one which itself split off some previous one who split off some previous one who split off Catholicism which split off Judaism.

But yes, you're all independent and your cult came out of a vacuum.

OK so if each person is a cult of one for having beliefs
does this also apply to you Delta4Embassy

Do your political beliefs also constitute a cult of one?

 

[RandomVariable]

People point to all the places where supposedly the OT supports the coming of Jesus and also to where the NT supports the existence of Jesus. First of all of course the NT supports the NT. Secondly since the NT was well aware of what the OT said writing in what fit that description was a no-brainer. What supporters of the NT conveniently fail to notice apparently is all the places in the OT where it specifically says not to accept a NT and especially not a Jesus.

 

[emilynghiem]

People point to all the places where supposedly the OT supports the coming of Jesus and also to where the NT supports the existence of Jesus. First of all of course the NT supports the NT. Secondly since the NT was well aware of what the OT said writing in what fit that description was a no-brainer. What supporters of the NT conveniently fail to notice apparently is all the places in the OT where it specifically says not to accept a NT and especially not a Jesus.

Can you cite or link to a list of these references
and how they are worded
where the OT says not to accept a Jesus or NT?

It could be a warning not to follow false prophets.

Buddhism also warns to "kill the buddha" and
anyone who claims to be the Buddha more than others
is likely speaking falsely, as a warning. it does not mean
to reject all truth, it means to reject false delusion about truth.

 

[Derideo_Te]

We don't observe any of the Jewish customs. None of them, except maybe for Passover. I can tell you first hand, being a Christian and all. Just because the OT happens to contain the Torah, doesn't mean we function in the same manner as Jews. We don't even follow any of the 600+ old laws set before the Israelites in the OT. We don't fast, nor do we wear special attire. We don't have Bar Mitzvahs for our children, the Jews don't Baptize their believers. We believe in the risen Lord, they are still waiting for his return. So yes, we are quite autonomous from Judaism.

How very presumptuous of you.

Sounds like you're in some cult then and no official version or denomination of Christianity.

For your information, I am part of the Baptist denomination of Christianity. I take offense to you implying I am in a cult.

I am a successionist Baptist.

We split from NOBODY, we were there in the beginning, with John.

Utter nonsense. The protestant split from the RCC is where the splits in Christianity began.

Dear Derideo_Te:
1. the main split I find is between the Believers under Scriptural laws Jewish Christian and Muslim
who are going through a process to become united in Christ
and
the Secular Gentiles under Natural laws which include
nontheists/atheists, Constitutionalists and naturalists, secular humanists and ethicists,
logicians, social psychologists and scientists, sociologists, Buddhists etc.

BOTH these branches find fulfillment in Christ Jesus
The Natural Laws fulfilled in the spirit of Restorative Justice for peace and justice
The Spiritual/Sacred Laws fulfilled in the spirit of Salvation through truth and healing grace
that brings peace and justice.
Both the spiritual laws as taught in various religious approaches
and the natural laws as studied in science and the basis of secular and civil laws

The main split is between Church and State
BUT EVEN these two authorities of law are supposed to be balanced in harmony
like husband and wife, mother and father figures.

They are not supposed to be in conflict
but YES they are distinct authorities with separate jurisdictions to enforce their own laws.

Note: I find it curious that individually Muslims may fit with Christians with no divides,
but when it comes to collective identity, the Christians and Muslims tend to divide
and it is the Constitutional laws not the Bible Laws that may be used to unite
the Christians with the Muslims. For some reason, some Muslim leaders may fall
under the Secular Gentile Branch under Natural Laws rather than fit in
with the Jewish and Christian under Biblical laws. Very curious, I think the
JW also may "graft onto" the tree through the Constitutional branch and not
through the Biblical branch. It is still Jesus or Justice fulfilling all these laws
but some of the people who don't interpret Scripture as Christians do
may unite better under Constitutional laws that Jesus also fulfills as "Equal Justice"

2. All the other splits caused by tribal conflict
are supposed to be resolved. So DT if you
are going to pick apart the Church for splits
look at the Political Groups!!!!

Look at conservative Republicans and liberal Democrats
that are all Supposed to be under the same Constitution.

Can'lt agree if the ACA/Health Care bill is Constitutional.
Can't agree if progun control or pro choice or pro life is Constitutional.
Can't agree if regulations on drugs, immigration, MARRIAGE
is Constitutional.

So why just yell at Christians if they can't agree if Baptism is
necessary to be saved or just Grace alone, if you have to be
a member of JW or Catholic church to be a member of
THE CHURCH BODY and does anyone else count in salvation.

If you are going to void Christianity for splits
then all the political party system should be VOIDED.

DT you are a fair person.
If you criticize the Church please criticize the State
with the same vigor. Maybe we'd wake up and realize
we cannot afford these bogus conflicts but need to unite under the Law.

Thanks!

Emily,

The topic is can Christianity stand by itself. The split refers to the history of Christianity. Politics have nothing to do with this topic.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Christianity is not autonomous from Judaism so long as the Jewish Bible, the OT is in every version of the Christian Bible, nor is it when Christians quote and use the OT.

We don't observe any of the Jewish customs. None of them, except maybe for Passover. I can tell you first hand, being a Christian and all. Just because the OT happens to contain the Torah, doesn't mean we function in the same manner as Jews. We don't even follow any of the 600+ old laws set before the Israelites in the OT. We don't fast, nor do we wear special attire. We don't have Bar Mitzvahs for our children, the Jews don't Baptize their believers. We believe in the risen Lord, they are still waiting for his return. So yes, we are quite autonomous from Judaism.

How very presumptuous of you.

Sounds like you're in some cult then and no official version or denomination of Christianity.

For your information, I am part of the Baptist denomination of Christianity. I take offense to you implying I am in a cult. So, what makes you an expert on the machinations of my faith? Hmm?

All religions are cults, TK! Look up the definition for yourself.

The alternative more sinister definition of the term cult derives from the abuse of religion in order to control people. Yes, even Baptists have their own versions of those cults too.

Dear Derideo_Te:
1. I think you are using CULT very loosely.
I tend to reserve the term for the dangerous Cults like the Satanic cults and gangs
that behead people along the border. If you use Cults for everything it's harder to distinguish the truly
dangerous groups that restrict and kill people for leaving the gangs or refusing to join.

2. Please make a distinction
between Theological Cult and Sociological Cult.
The best description I ever heard of the JW was they were Cultic but not a formal Cult.

So if you look into the deeper sociological definitions
of what constitutes a Cult, the experts will study the dynamics and history of a group
before they make such a determination between a
Theological and Sociological Cult.

A lot of people will call JW a cult but not other denominations that are free to join or to leave without issue.
And even the JW are not considered a cult by those who have studied them in depth.

3. Question Derideo_Te
Do you consider the Democrat Party a Cult?
The Texas Democrat Party specifically states
"We BELIEVE" that health care is a right so this is a Political Belief
or Political Religion!

Are you alarmed that a large group would use majority rule to
ESTABLISH a Political Belief for the Whole Nation as MANDATORY
so you HAVE to buy insurance through this system or pay a FINE to govt.
You do NOT have religious freedom or freedom of choice to pay for
health care any other way or you are FINED and Penalized by the IRS THROUGH GOVT.

Can you name any other CULT that has made something MANDATORY
through federal mandates enforced by FINES through the IRS?

If you want to say the Prolife movement is a CULT that is TRYING to
impose their views through govt, fine. But if you look, the Democrats
cut that down by yelling "separation of church and state" but instead
push their own BELIEFS about gay marriage and health care as a right through govt,
and don't allow for Equal Religious Freedom fro OTHER political beliefs in free market.

Which is more dangerous?
A religious cult that is not required by law to follow?
or a Political cult that can use the system to make
mandatory laws that citizens are REQUIRED to follow or pay fines to govt?

Which is a greater threat to natural freedom?
Your honest answer please!

Emily,

I am using the dictionary definitions of cults as they pertain to religion. Please do not deflect to politics.

Thank you.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

And please learn how to reply without including the dozen or so prior ones. If you need to manually delete the fluff do so. Otherwise just disable scripts for usmb and it'll cull the excess automatically.

 

[RandomVariable]

People point to all the places where supposedly the OT supports the coming of Jesus and also to where the NT supports the existence of Jesus. First of all of course the NT supports the NT. Secondly since the NT was well aware of what the OT said writing in what fit that description was a no-brainer. What supporters of the NT conveniently fail to notice apparently is all the places in the OT where it specifically says not to accept a NT and especially not a Jesus.

Can you cite or link to a list of these references
and how they are worded
where the OT says not to accept a Jesus or NT?

It could be a warning not to follow false prophets.

Buddhism also warns to "kill the buddha" and
anyone who claims to be the Buddha more than others
is likely speaking falsely, as a warning. it does not mean
to reject all truth, it means to reject false delusion about truth.

Buddhism is not a religion. I had to look up "kill the buddha". I got a very different impression of that than you did apparently.

 

[emilynghiem]

People point to all the places where supposedly the OT supports the coming of Jesus and also to where the NT supports the existence of Jesus. First of all of course the NT supports the NT. Secondly since the NT was well aware of what the OT said writing in what fit that description was a no-brainer. What supporters of the NT conveniently fail to notice apparently is all the places in the OT where it specifically says not to accept a NT and especially not a Jesus.

Can you cite or link to a list of these references
and how they are worded
where the OT says not to accept a Jesus or NT?

It could be a warning not to follow false prophets.

Buddhism also warns to "kill the buddha" and
anyone who claims to be the Buddha more than others
is likely speaking falsely, as a warning. it does not mean
to reject all truth, it means to reject false delusion about truth.

Buddhism is not a religion. I had to look up "kill the buddha". I got a very different impression of that than you did apparently.

Yes, when applied to oneself, killing the buddha means
to die to oneself and let go of your own attachments and delusions.

When applied to following idols outside oneself, it means not to become attached to those either.

I'm sure there are as many ways of applying this concept
as there are situations where someone lets go of something hlding them back.

Buddhism is different for each person who applies it.

Christians who apply Buddhism are going to see and use it differently
than Atheists who follow it.

What I mean by a 'religion' is that it uses certain terms
and principles for spiritual laws.

Terms like
karma in place of the term sin or spiritual conditioning
Buddha, Dharma, Sangha
in place of the Holy Trinity

And the equivalent of the Two Great Commandments
in Buddhism are
* develop perfect Wisdom
* develop perfect Compassion

So that IS a different approach to the same universal concepts

IN Christianity Perfect Wisdom and Perfection Compassion or Charity
are Personified as God and Jesus/Christian love for neighbors.

In Buddhism these are impersonal and left open to
apply not just to people and human relations
but to peace with all life, all things in existence
so this is much broader

So that is definitely a "religious difference"

Because both Buddhism and Christianity can be taught
as universal spiritual laws, both can be taught as "not a religion"
but just expressing universal laws that already exist.

What I mean RandomVariable is that the language is different.

Also what I understand killing the buddha is
is getting rid of your own delusions.

 

[PostmodernProph]

People point to all the places where supposedly the OT supports the coming of Jesus and also to where the NT supports the existence of Jesus. First of all of course the NT supports the NT. Secondly since the NT was well aware of what the OT said writing in what fit that description was a no-brainer. What supporters of the NT conveniently fail to notice apparently is all the places in the OT where it specifically says not to accept a NT and especially not a Jesus.

Can you cite or link to a list of these references
and how they are worded
where the OT says not to accept a Jesus or NT?

It could be a warning not to follow false prophets.

Buddhism also warns to "kill the buddha" and
anyone who claims to be the Buddha more than others
is likely speaking falsely, as a warning. it does not mean
to reject all truth, it means to reject false delusion about truth.

Buddhism is not a religion. I had to look up "kill the buddha". I got a very different impression of that than you did apparently.

?????.....apparently its the fourth largest "not religion" in the world....
Major religious groups - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[foggedinn]

Put it this way, how much sense doe sit make to you when Christians say Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and/or God, or a son of God, and if you don't believe that you'll go to hell. Then it their very next breath quote something from the OT, the Jewish religion's holy text which denies the divinity of Jesus?

It's insane.

JEWS deny, which was foretold, the OT does not.

44 Prophecies Jesus Christ Fulfilled Prophecies About JesusOld Testament
ScriptureNew Testament
Fulfillment1Messiah would be born of a woman.Genesis 3:15Matthew 1:20
Galatians 4:42
Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.Micah 5:2Matthew 2:1
Luke 2:4-63
Messiah would be born of a virgin.Isaiah 7:14Matthew 1:22-23
Luke 1:26-314
Messiah would come from the line of Abraham.Genesis 12:3
Genesis 22:18Matthew 1:1
Romans 9:55
Messiah would be a descendant of Isaac.Genesis 17:19
Genesis 21:12Luke 3:346
Messiah would be a descendant of Jacob.Numbers 24:17Matthew 1:27Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah.Genesis 49:10Luke 3:33
Hebrews 7:148
Messiah would be heir to King David's throne.2 Samuel 7:12-13
Isaiah 9:7Luke 1:32-33
Romans 1:39
Messiah's throne will be anointed and eternal.Psalm 45:6-7
Daniel 2:44Luke 1:33
Hebrews 1:8-1210
Messiah would be called Immanuel.Isaiah 7:14Matthew 1:2311
Messiah would spend a season in Egypt.Hosea 11:1Matthew 2:14-1512A
massacre of children would happen at Messiah's birthplace.Jeremiah 31:15Matthew 2:16-1813
A messenger would prepare the way for MessiahIsaiah 40:3-5Luke 3:3-614
Messiah would be rejected by his own people.Psalm 69:8
Isaiah 53:3John 1:11
John 7:515
Messiah would be a prophet.Deuteronomy 18:15Acts 3:20-2216
Messiah would be preceded by Elijah.Malachi 4:5-6Matthew 11:13-1417
Messiah would be declared the Son of God.Psalm 2:7Matthew 3:16-1718
Messiah would be called a Nazarene.Isaiah 11:1Matthew 2:2319
Messiah would bring light to Galilee.Isaiah 9:1-2Matthew 4:13-1620
Messiah would speak in parables.Psalm 78:2-4
Isaiah 6:9-10Matthew 13:10-15, 34-3521
Messiah would be sent to heal the brokenhearted.Isaiah 61:1-2Luke 4:18-1922
Messiah would be a priest after the order ofMelchizedek.Psalm 110:4Hebrews 5:5-623
Messiah would be called King.Psalm 2:6
Zechariah 9:9Matthew 27:37
Mark 11:7-1124
Messiah would be praised by little children.Psalm 8:2Matthew 21:1625Messiah would be betrayed.Psalm 41:9
Zechariah 11:12-13Luke 22:47-48
Matthew 26:14-1626
Messiah's price money would be used to buy a potter's field.Zechariah 11:12-13Matthew 27:9-1027Messiah would be falsely accused.Psalm 35:11Mark 14:57-5828
Messiah would be silent before his accusers.Isaiah 53:7Mark 15:4-529
Messiah would be spat upon and struck.Isaiah 50:6Matthew 26:6730
Messiah would be hated without cause.Psalm 35:19
Psalm 69:4John 15:24-2531
Messiah would be crucified with criminals.Isaiah 53:12Matthew 27:38
Mark 15:27-2832
Messiah would be given vinegar to drink.Psalm 69:21Matthew 27:34
John 19:28-3033
Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced.Psalm 22:16
Zechariah 12:10John 20:25-2734Messiah would be mocked and ridiculed.Psalm 22:7-8Luke 23:3535
Soldiers would gamble for Messiah's garments.Psalm 22:18Luke 23:34
Matthew 27:35-3636
Messiah's bones would not be broken.Exodus 12:46
Psalm 34:20John 19:33-3637
Messiah would be forsaken by God.Psalm 22:1Matthew 27:4638
Messiah would pray for his enemies.Psalm 109:4Luke 23:3439
Soldiers would pierce Messiah's side.Zechariah 12:10John 19:3440
Messiah would be buried with the rich.Isaiah 53:9Matthew 27:57-6041
Messiah would resurrect from the dead.Psalm 16:10Psalm 49:15Matthew 28:2-7Acts 2:22-3242
Messiah would ascend to heaven.Psalm 24:7-10Mark 16:19
Luke 24:5143
Messiah would be seated at God's right hand.Psalm 68:18
Psalm 110:1Mark 16:19
Matthew 22:4444
Messiah would be a sacrifice for sin.Isaiah 53:5-12Romans 5:6-8

All these references and none to lev. 16. The whole nt is revealed in one chapter. Jesus most important act. Is his sacrifice as the Lamb.
There is more to the Day of atonement than either Christians or JEWS are really comfortable with.

I guess the whole chapter could have been referenced but I think Isaiah 53:5-12 covers it well enough for this discussion board. Beside Lev:16 isn't really a prophecy, in my opinion. It tells the story but is not the gist of what I was answering.

I understand your opinion.
I consider it to be prophetic in the same sense that the book ofJonah foretells the sign of Jonas. As Jonah spent three days in the belly of a great fish, Jesus spent three days in the tomb.
The two sin sacrifices of the bullock and the Lamb foretell John and Jesus and the scapegoat foretells that man of sin.

 

[RandomVariable]

People point to all the places where supposedly the OT supports the coming of Jesus and also to where the NT supports the existence of Jesus. First of all of course the NT supports the NT. Secondly since the NT was well aware of what the OT said writing in what fit that description was a no-brainer. What supporters of the NT conveniently fail to notice apparently is all the places in the OT where it specifically says not to accept a NT and especially not a Jesus.

Can you cite or link to a list of these references
and how they are worded
where the OT says not to accept a Jesus or NT?

It could be a warning not to follow false prophets.

Buddhism also warns to "kill the buddha" and
anyone who claims to be the Buddha more than others
is likely speaking falsely, as a warning. it does not mean
to reject all truth, it means to reject false delusion about truth.

Buddhism is not a religion. I had to look up "kill the buddha". I got a very different impression of that than you did apparently.

?????.....apparently its the fourth largest "not religion" in the world....
Major religious groups - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

If there are lots of people who want to call themselves Buddhists and they want to call it a religion more power to them. I was under the impression that Buddhists do not consider themselves as members of a religion but those are probably in a minority now.

 

[amrchaos]

Could Christianity exist without Judaism? Could the Bible be the book of Christianity without the OT?

Since Judaism can exist without Christianity, and did until Christianity came along, why does Christianity (or Islam for that matter) need a previous religion to establish it's legitimacy? Isn't a derivitive religion just emphasizing it's illegitimacy by attaching itself to some previous religion?

I say they risk illegitimacy in the sense that if Judaism is "illegitimate" then claims of these derivtive religions are illegitimate as well. .

I think care should be taken here!! I think I am close to arguing that claims made by Hebrews/Jews need not be true in reality in order to serve the true purpose of Judaism--to serve as a "spiritual" guide/tool for those that follow its teaches.

I have yet to find a claim for "Universality"(A charge that ALL men should follow its teachings because its teachings are true because God revealed them to all men through his prophets.) and until then, questions of validity becomes irrelevant to the actual purpose of Judaism!! I.e. It is possible that the God of Judaism is mostly fiction but the purpose of Judaism is still relevant to its followers. A possiblity that does not allow Christainity nor Islam to remain "Universal" nor legitimate in any sense.

There is not only danger for the attached religions from disbelievers!! There is a danger from Jewish scholars as well in the risk of throwing the stowaways(Christianity and Islam) off their ship!!.

 

[Inevitable]

Could Christianity exist without Judaism? Could the Bible be the book of Christianity without the OT?

No. The OT isn't Jewish. Only the first five books are the Torah, in fact, Torah means five books. Judaism is based on the Talmud, which is not the old testament.

Since Judaism can exist without Christianity, and did until Christianity came along, why does Christianity (or Islam for that matter) need a previous religion to establish it's legitimacy? Isn't a derivitive religion just emphasizing it's illegitimacy by attaching itself to some previous religion?

It's actually not a previous religion, Christianity is simply a new covenant of Judaism.