Bush and Officials Lied leading up to Iraq war

[RetiredGySgt]

again. I have listened to enough former CIA analysts report on what was in the reports that Bush saw. They ALL have said that NONE of the intelligence was presented as an absolute certainty.

and AGAIN...If Team Bush had said that they "believed" there was no doubt... or that they "believed" that there was absolute certainty, that would be one thing. They did not say that. They said that there WAS no doubt. That is a lie.

And once again dumbshit, it is not a lie if you believe it to be true. What someone believes IS the entire point. If Bush believed what he said he was NOT attempting to deceive anyone. Deception requires knowledge that what you say is NOT true. If you believe what you say IS true, no lie.

So remind me again how you know what Bush was told, what he beleived and what he thought was true.

 

[maineman]

And once again dumbshit, it is not a lie if you believe it to be true. What someone believes IS the entire point. If Bush believed what he said he was NOT attempting to deceive anyone. Deception requires knowledge that what you say is NOT true. If you believe what you say IS true, no lie.

So remind me again how you know what Bush was told, what he beleived and what he thought was true.

and again, you dimwitted slug...we are not talking about anyone's statements of their fucking beliefs. We are talking about statements about the fact that there WAS absolute certainty when there wasn't...and the fact that there WAS NO doubt, when there was... even if Bush chose to ignore it.

 

[maineman]

For example:

Let's say that you have admitted to liking to drink miller lite.

If I were to say:

"I personally have no doubt that RGS has empty miller lite cans in his trash."

that is not a lie....it is a statement of my personal belief.

If, on the other hand, I were to say:

"There is absolutely no doubt that RGS has empty miller lite cans in his trash"

that IS a lie.... even if it turns out that you do... what makes it a lie is that I state that there is no doubt about it...not that I, personally, have no doubt about it..but that there IS no doubt about it.

Tell me you aren't too stupid to be able to comprehend the difference.

 

[Dr Grump]

There was NO DOUBT. ALL the Dems agreed. all the Foreign Governments agreed, even BLIX agreed. Saddam even had his Generals convinced.

The Dems only agreed because of what Bush told them. BLix did not agree. Not all the foreign govts agreed and they saw the same intel. However, Bush had NO doubt. So, where are the WMDs. If there was no doubt they'd be around....

 

[maineman]

The Dems only agreed because of what Bush told them. BLix did not agree. Not all the foreign govts agreed and they saw the same intel. However, Bush had NO doubt. So, where are the WMDs. If there was no doubt they'd be around....

It wasn't even so much that Bush himself had no doubt....he and his team repeatedly conveyed the false impression that NO ONE had any doubt.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The Dems only agreed because of what Bush told them. BLix did not agree. Not all the foreign govts agreed and they saw the same intel. However, Bush had NO doubt. So, where are the WMDs. If there was no doubt they'd be around....

Learn how our Government works. The President can not "control" what information Congress gets. The President can not "cherry pick" information and have any realistic expectation that Congress can not ask for and receive independent briefs from any and all sources.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

For example:

Let's say that you have admitted to liking to drink miller lite.

If I were to say:

"I personally have no doubt that RGS has empty miller lite cans in his trash."

that is not a lie....it is a statement of my personal belief.

If, on the other hand, I were to say:

"There is absolutely no doubt that RGS has empty miller lite cans in his trash"

that IS a lie.... even if it turns out that you do... what makes it a lie is that I state that there is no doubt about it...not that I, personally, have no doubt about it..but that there IS no doubt about it.

Tell me you aren't too stupid to be able to comprehend the difference.

It is NOT a lie if you belief it is true. In order to be a lie you must have an INTENTION to convey a falsehood. Further if 10 guys have briefed you on my trash and even JUST one has told you that ther are in fact those cans in my trash, guess what NIMROD? No lie , no falsehood intentionally conveyed at all.

The only intentional falsehoods are coming from you and your liberal buddies.

 

[Alpha1]

For example:

Let's say that you have admitted to liking to drink miller lite.

If I were to say:

"I personally have no doubt that RGS has empty miller lite cans in his trash."

that is not a lie....it is a statement of my personal belief.

If, on the other hand, I were to say:

"There is absolutely no doubt that RGS has empty miller lite cans in his trash"

that IS a lie.... even if it turns out that you do... what makes it a lie is that I state that there is no doubt about it...not that I, personally, have no doubt about it..but that there IS no doubt about it.

Tell me you aren't too stupid to be able to comprehend the difference.

Thats shows how far you've fallin' into the abyss of insanity....IF Bush had meant that...he would have said NO ONE had any doubt...or WE have no doubt, or MY ADMINISTRATION has no doubt.....

The fact that he didn't shows he was speaking for himself...what he alone believed to be the facts, the truth....HE HAD NO DOUBT.....and THEIR IS NO DOUBT have the same meaning in this context.....
"There is no doubt" (in my mind)..."There is no doubt"(in my opinion), etc....

If he meant to speak for others don't you think he would have conveyed that ..?

When I hear someone express an opinion ...I assume they are speaking for themselves only, unless they clearly convey they are expressing the opinion of a GROUP of people......

You're becoming a wee bit deranged with this simple exercise of reading comprehension.....using common sense, logical reasoning and the all important context of the written word to comprehend the specific idea being expressed by the writer or speaker, must make reading a simple novel a futile exercise for you.....looking for alternate meanings in what is normal common English language usage might be fun and feed your feeling of elitism, but does not advance debate in the normal course of conversation....

In plain Joe six pack English....we know what the meaning of IS IS......

 

[maineman]

Thats shows how far you've fallin' into the abyss of insanity....IF Bush had meant that...he would have said NO ONE had any doubt...or WE have no doubt, or MY ADMINISTRATION has no doubt.....

The fact that he didn't shows he was speaking for himself...what he alone believed to be the facts, the truth....HE HAD NO DOUBT.....and THEIR IS NO DOUBT have the same meaning in this context.....
"There is no doubt" (in my mind)..."There is no doubt"(in my opinion), etc....

If he meant to speak for others don't you think he would have conveyed that ..?

When I hear someone express an opinion ...I assume they are speaking for themselves only, unless they clearly convey they are expressing the opinion of a GROUP of people......

You're becoming a wee bit deranged with this simple exercise of reading comprehension.....using common sense, logical reasoning and the all important context of the written word to comprehend the specific idea being expressed by the writer or speaker, must make reading a simple novel a futile exercise for you.....looking for alternate meanings in what is normal common English language usage might be fun and feed your feeling of elitism, but does not advance debate in the normal course of conversation....

In plain Joe six pack English....we know what the meaning of IS IS......

ah ...if only editorial parentheticals inserted after the fact counted for anything!

"There is no doubt"

means something different than

"I have no doubt"

that's a fact. spin all you want.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

ah ...if only editorial parentheticals inserted after the fact counted for anything!

"There is no doubt"

means something different than

"I have no doubt"

that's a fact. spin all you want.

The only one spinning is you.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You must have missed the whacko defense of that, According to them since Clinton did not start the war it doesn't matter what they actually said or believe

Apparently, its OK to lie about the reasons for going to war so long as you don't kill "too many" people or spend "too much" money.

Or, have a (D) next to your name.

 

[nibor]

UM I know that I'm getting into this kinda late.....................the fact is that they all lied and we're at war.................and our kids are dying for it.

But there is one thing for sure Communist China owns us.............and freakin' pissant MEXICO is taking some of that action......................AND the muslims tried to take over our East coast with the help of the same people who lied..............and we continue to argue over a pissant like Saddam, who's dead I believe..............maybe?

UM WOULDN'T OUR COUNTRY BEING SLICED AND DICED AND TAKEN OVER BE MORE OF A PRESSING ISSUE........UM JUST SLIGHTLY MORE IMPORTANT IS HOW WE'VE BEEN INTENTIONALLY DIVIDED AND IGNORE THESE THINGS????

WTF difference does it make anymore if PISSANT HUSSEIN HAD WMDS OR NOT we ARE at war there, believe and like it or not.............................BUT WHAT IF THAT ISN'T EVEN THE MAIN STAGE?????????

 

[Shogun]

Yup, a slam dunk on your ignorant ass for making a patently false claim again. Neither you nor anyone else on this board know what Bush was told, by whom, nor what certainty he was provided. WE do know that the CIA Director at the time used slam dunk in a sentence though, he STATED for the record it was a SLAM DUNK that the intel on Saddam was right.

Hey, I;ve taken the time to actually quote Bush rather than cry like a bitch while accusing someone of a false claim. Why don't you take your stupidity up with his actual words instead of wasting my time with your worthless pre-applesauce ranting and laughably litigious attempt to save face? Why? Because you are an intellectual pinhead with more partisan vitriol than brains.


You are going to find out in 08 why the only people who cling to your desperate fantasy are the same dumb asses still scratching their heads wondering why your 04 posterboy didn't turn out as promised. Though, I'm sure you'll have figured out by then which liberal to blame for the IMPOTENCE (you hear that word a lot, don't you?) of your own party.

 

[Shogun]

And once again dumbshit, it is not a lie if you believe it to be true. What someone believes IS the entire point. If Bush believed what he said he was NOT attempting to deceive anyone. Deception requires knowledge that what you say is NOT true. If you believe what you say IS true, no lie.

So remind me again how you know what Bush was told, what he beleived and what he thought was true.

YEA! it WAS NOT A LIE when people believed that the EARTH WAS FLAT!

Hell, THE PHAROES WHO WERE GODS WE AT LEAST NOT TELLING A LIE!

Hell, I'll sell you ocean front property in ARIZONA as long as I BELIEVE the gulf comes that far inland!

you are, hands down, one of the dumbest bastards I've ever has the pleasure of running into online, dude.

 

[Shogun]

I, for one, have NO DOUBT, that RGS lactates.

I guess it's up to him to prove otherwise. Indeed, if I am wrong.. oh well, as long as I BELIEVE it..


doesn't this whole silly attempt at rationalization remind anyone else of the plot to The Neverending Story?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Hey, I;ve taken the time to actually quote Bush rather than cry like a bitch while accusing someone of a false claim. Why don't you take your stupidity up with his actual words instead of wasting my time with your worthless pre-applesauce ranting and laughably litigious attempt to save face? Why? Because you are an intellectual pinhead with more partisan vitriol than brains.


You are going to find out in 08 why the only people who cling to your desperate fantasy are the same dumb asses still scratching their heads wondering why your 04 posterboy didn't turn out as promised. Though, I'm sure you'll have figured out by then which liberal to blame for the IMPOTENCE (you hear that word a lot, don't you?) of your own party.

Bush cant run for reelection anyway, so he was always OUT of the picture. As for the coming election, we will just wait and see how well the people appreciate the do nothing democratic Congress. As for President no one worth electing is running for either side anymore so it will be a choice of who we think won't fuck us up to much in the next 4 years.

Like I said if Obama wins nomination I will vote for ANYONE running against him, if Hillary and McCain are the nominees I will vote Hillary. Keep on thinking your party is a shoe in, that thought process worked so well in 2000, 2002 and 2004.

 

[maineman]

The only one spinning is you.

making a statement that serves to convey a false impression is a lie. that is "spinning" only if quoting the dictionary is spin in your book. When team bush made statements that conveyed the false impression that there was NO DOUBT -when clearly the intelligence did contained degrees of doubt - those statements were lies.

 

[M14 Shooter]

RetiredGySgt
If Bush believed what he said he was NOT attempting to deceive anyone.

This is true.

For you to be lying, you must be stating something you know to be false. If you make a statement that you believe to be true, then you are not making a statement that you know to be false - and as such, you are not lying.

 

[maineman]

This is true.

For you to be lying, you must be stating something you know to be false. If you make a statement that you believe to be true, then you are not making a statement that you know to be false - and as such, you are not lying.

Bush knew that many analysts in the CIA had included caveats and qualifiers on intelligence reports concerning Iraq's WMD's.

Therefore, to state that there was no doubt, when in fact there was, is a lie.

If Bush and his minions has said "I have no doubt", or "there is almost no doubt"...those would not have been lies. To express the presence of absolute certainty when there was none, is a lie.

deal with it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If Bush and his minions has said "I have no doubt", or "there is almost no doubt"...those would not have been lies.

You're one of the people that have trouble with the definition of "is".
Deal with it.