British Teacher Found Guilty in Sudan

[Larkinn]

Why don't you just move to one of those better countries and post from there on your new greatly improved life?

I know that criticism terrifies fascists like you, but get used to it. That pesky thing called the Constitution lets me do it.

 

[Larkinn]

I expected about as much from you. Heaven forbid you notice that it IS an achievement; rather, point out instead that we are not perfect.

No, its not an achievement. That we are more tolerant than Sudan is NOT an achievement. That we massacre less civilians than Burma is NOT an achievement. Try setting the bar a little bit higher than an inch above the floor. Do you really have such little faith in America and Americans that you think us being better than Sudan is an achievement? Us being better than Sudam is meaningless. It should be guaranteed, without doubt.

You want to talk about PC and how people get praised for everything? Its a bit hypocritical to then praise the US for not being a brutal dictatorship. How about we praise the US when it gives AIDS money to Africa, when it champions Human Rights in Burma, when it helps to solve crises.

Sorry, but I'm not proud that we are better than Sudan. Nor am I proud that I didn't rape an innocent woman. Those aren't things to be proud of, those are the fucking minimum. If you claim to love your country, expect a little bit more from it than being better than Sudan.

 

[Annie]

No, its not an achievement. That we are more tolerant than Sudan is NOT an achievement. That we massacre less civilians than Burma is NOT an achievement. Try setting the bar a little bit higher than an inch above the floor. Do you really have such little faith in America and Americans that you think us being better than Sudan is an achievement? Us being better than Sudam is meaningless. It should be guaranteed, without doubt.

You want to talk about PC and how people get praised for everything? Its a bit hypocritical to then praise the US for not being a brutal dictatorship. How about we praise the US when it gives AIDS money to Africa, when it champions Human Rights in Burma, when it helps to solve crises.

Sorry, but I'm not proud that we are better than Sudan. Nor am I proud that I didn't rape an innocent woman. Those aren't things to be proud of, those are the fucking minimum. If you claim to love your country, expect a little bit more from it than being better than Sudan.

Maybe I'm missing something here. The argument is not that we don't do what the Sudanese do, rather we DO care on some level, (obviously not on that of our own 'self-interest'). You wish for different?

 

[Larkinn]

Just curious...any of you willing to submit yourself to the jurisdiction of an international court, if Sudan would?

Any of you willing to allow the world to condemn the US for killing children or the mentally ill?

If the answer is no...then of what authority do you claim to demand anything from those in other countries?

 

[Larkinn]

Maybe I'm missing something here. The argument is not that we don't do what the Sudanese do, rather we DO care on some level, (obviously not on that of our own 'self-interest'). You wish for different?

Pssh, most of you fucks don't really care. Mostly people just want another excuse to bash Islam.

But besides that I was addressing Gunny's point that I was somehow bashing America by saying that its not an achievement at ALL that we are better than Sudan.

 

[Diuretic]

Seriously though, if it was feasible I would close the African continent down altogether, just for a while to let them stew in their own juices.

There are times when I'd agree with that. Just as well I'm a nobody in the world. But then I think, it's not all bad, there are some good things happening, it's just that the good things don't make the news a lot, except when it's been a quiet news day and the editor's screaming for some fillers, "get me some of that human interest stuff, Rotary's building a well in a village in Zambia or somethin'."

I think I sometimes forget that Africa is a continent, not a country, it has many facets.

 

[Diuretic]

When we act on it speak... until then stop defending the insane assholes...

Jackholes like you are great... all the muslim asshole population wants to murder some poor woman over teddy bear, and you find away to make american christians the bad guy...

No, not ALL the Muslim population! For crying out loud, it's bad enough without your making it into something it's patently not. She was dobbed in for an act of naievete, that's bad enough; the Sharia court imprisoned her, that's also bad enough and now a bunch of nutters from extremist mosques want her topped. But the Sudanese government doesn't. The family of her student Mohamed don't want anything to happen to her. Her colleagues, the bloke who runs the school, don't.

Some right wingnut alleged Christian murders a doctor in an abortion clinic, do you hear screams of "all right wing Christian Americans murder doctors!". No you don't, because it's bullshit - the REAL facts are bad enough, they don't need embellishment, you're not working for Fox.

 

[lieberalism]

Just curious...any of you willing to submit yourself to the jurisdiction of an international court, if Sudan would?

Any of you willing to allow the world to condemn the US for killing children or the mentally ill?

If the answer is no...then of what authority do you claim to demand anything from those in other countries?

I see America as the best country in the world. What that means is, whoever isnt like us I criticize, and when I dont like what America is doing, I go vote/protest/boycott etc.

I don't need to be under any international courts, but if I were to go to trial, pool my jury from anywhere in the G8, I dont care. I know I'd get a pretty fair trial. Once the world over is democratic, it shouldnt matter whos reviewing your misconduct. Of course that is after we bomb/sanction/kick the stupidity out of most of the world/islam/3rd world savages.

You want to push this moral relativism crap that we cant judge their culture because our own has flaws. It doesn't cut it with most people. Mainly though, I just DONT CARE what other cultures think, and luckily I live in America where we can force our views onto others whether you like them or not

 

[Threedee]

But the woman is not a Sudanese citizen, she is British. In such cases, there should be some form of extraterritoriality or immunity in place... Were this strictly an internal matter, I doubt anyone would care.

 

[Diuretic]

But the woman is not a Sudanese citizen, she is British. In such cases, there should be some form of extraterritoriality or immunity in place... Were this strictly an internal matter, I doubt anyone would care.

The law doesn't work that way in the US or the UK or Aus (excepting where domestic law recognises the treaties of Vienna on diplomatic and consular immunity) so why should it work that way anywhere else?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The law doesn't work that way in the US or the UK or Aus (excepting where domestic law recognises the treaties of Vienna on diplomatic and consular immunity) so why should it work that way anywhere else?

On the point of law your absolutely right. She was in their Country and not a diplomat so subject to their laws. But what a law? Can you imagine what would happen if a Western nation passed a law that made the hate speech of Islamic religious leaders illegal, with jail time or a death penalty?

Hell we have hate laws in this country and every official and politician bends over backwards to make it clear they do not apply to Muslim clerics preaching murder and mayhem in US Mosques.

In England a Christian is arrested for READING from the Bible accussed of intolerance and hate, I have yet to see a Muslim arrested for much worse in that Country.

 

[lieberalism]

On the point of law your absolutely right. She was in their Country and not a diplomat so subject to their laws. But what a law? Can you imagine what would happen if a Western nation passed a law that made the hate speech of Islamic religious leaders illegal, with jail time or a death penalty?

Hell we have hate laws in this country and every official and politician bends over backwards to make it clear they do not apply to Muslim clerics preaching murder and mayhem in US Mosques.

In England a Christian is arrested for READING from the Bible accussed of intolerance and hate, I have yet to see a Muslim arrested for much worse in that Country.

REtardgaysargent, I salute you.

i know you accidentally stood up for American rights, but God Bless You.

 

[Diuretic]

On the point of law your absolutely right. She was in their Country and not a diplomat so subject to their laws. But what a law? Can you imagine what would happen if a Western nation passed a law that made the hate speech of Islamic religious leaders illegal, with jail time or a death penalty?

Hell we have hate laws in this country and every official and politician bends over backwards to make it clear they do not apply to Muslim clerics preaching murder and mayhem in US Mosques.

In England a Christian is arrested for READING from the Bible accussed of intolerance and hate, I have yet to see a Muslim arrested for much worse in that Country.

A few Muslims in the UK have been banged up for conspiracy to commit terrorist acts.

http://tinyurl.com/38kk3v

That's the beauty of secular laws. The US was lucky enough to have Founders who knew the evils of wrapping religion around the law, they refused to take the English/British example and certainly they would be horrified to see Sharia law in place of secular laws in places like Sudan. But for many hundreds of years Britain was exactly like Sudan in that religion and common law sat hand in hand with one another. Do you know why English judges wear those preposterously stupid coloured robes? They're a reminder of the time when the clerics ruled the law, they were the judges, yes, England's own Mad Mullahs were pronouncing sentence on the citizenry. Eventually English law tore itself away from the terrible grip of the clerics but it was a long and vicious fight.

Oh and before the usual suspects swoop in with a bag of non-sequiturs for distribution throughout the thread, Israel has a secular legal system for its citizens, Jew and Gentile all.

Sharia law has its place in non-Muslim societies. Its place is just like Jewish law amongst Jews, influential in guiding and controlling religious-related behaviour. Where any religious law bumps up against the secular law then religious law is deficient and that includes the Canon Law against the secular law of nominally Christian jurisdictions.

 

[Diuretic]

REtardgaysargent, I salute you.

i know you accidentally stood up for American rights, but God Bless You.

Oi, that was unnecessary.

 

[lieberalism]

Oi, that was unnecessary.

a freedom hater. nothing to see here, move along

 

[Gunny]

The law doesn't work that way in the US or the UK or Aus (excepting where domestic law recognises the treaties of Vienna on diplomatic and consular immunity) so why should it work that way anywhere else?

Yeah ... you're only above the law if you're a foreign national in the US.

 

[William Joyce]

I'm almost tempted to say, "Let 'em have her." Here's another white woman who thinks the brown people are so wonderful and wants to live with them and save them. Now she's learning a little reality.

 

[mattskramer]

... all the muslim asshole population wants to murder some poor woman over teddy bear...

Wrong.

http://www.timesdaily.com/article/20071201/API/712010638&cachetime=5

...a pair of British Muslim politicians visited Khartoum on Saturday to seek the teacher's release.

Furthermore,

http://religion.beloblog.com/archives/2007/11/us_muslim_spokesman_says_sudan.html#more

Ibrahim Hooper is the spokesman for CAIR. He believes that Sudan's persecution of the teacher whose class named its teddy bear after Muhammad goes against essential Muslim teachings. It was posted on CAIR’s web site. See:

http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?mid1=777&&ArticleID=23869&&name=n&&currPage=1

 

[Larkinn]

But the woman is not a Sudanese citizen, she is British. In such cases, there should be some form of extraterritoriality or immunity in place... Were this strictly an internal matter, I doubt anyone would care.

Umm, no thats not how the world works. Anyone, citizen or not, is responsible for the country's laws in which they are currently in. You don't get immunity from a country's laws just because you are a foreigner. Thats part of the basic principle of sovreignity..a country has jurisdiction over anyone on its territory.

 

[roomy]

Many schools here have stopped performing the nativity at christmas for fear of offending the fucking idiots, yet we are supposed to kow tow to their fucking....fuck it, they anger me beyond fucking words, all they understand is fucking violence, well we are the best in the world at that.