Breaking News - Israel launches ground offensive in Gaza

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The only borders established in 1922, relative to the region under discussion, were those established for the Mandate of Palestine. They were not permanent international borders.

P F Tinmore, et al,

The right of self-determination belongs to "ALL People;" without regard to their point of origin. It is not a unique right to the Palestinians.

Probably because it is true.

A state, or government if you will, has no rights. It is the people who have rights. A government constituted by the will of the people is merely an extension of the rights of the people.

Palestine is a nation of people inside a territory defined by international borders. Palestine is their country. As a nation of people inside a defined territory they have the right to:

Self determination without external interference.​

Independence and sovereignty.​

Territorial integrity.​

The Palestinians, and only the Palestinians, have the right to establish a government and declare a state inside their international borders without external interference.

Israel is an alien domination of Palestine. Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich be the foreign World Zionist Organization. Its intended population was foreign settlers who were imported by the Zionists to populate the planned Jewish state.

Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants. Israel was created with the virtual unanimous opposition of the native population and has never had the support of the majority of people.

Outside the UN during the statehood vote.

(OBSERVATION)

Relative to your insistent claim that the Arab Palestinians have some "international borders." I assume you are talking about the recognition by the UN of the "sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967" as stipulated in the UN Acknowledgement to the proclamation of the State of Palestine (A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988). That is the recognized borders of "Palestine" after 1988.

If you are referring to something different, I would like a little more of a reference so I may address it directly.

Most Respectfully,
R

I was. I mean the international borders that Palestine has had since 1922.

(COMMENT)

The borders were established by the application of the Provisions of Article 22 (LoN Covenant), for the administration of the territory under the Mandate of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers. There was no country or nation established by these boundaries. The term "Palestine" was a short title used to describe the "Mandate of Palestine;" as stipulated by the Order in Council.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The only borders established in 1922, relative to the region under discussion, were those established for the Mandate of Palestine. They were not permanent international borders.

P F Tinmore, et al,

The right of self-determination belongs to "ALL People;" without regard to their point of origin. It is not a unique right to the Palestinians.


(OBSERVATION)

Relative to your insistent claim that the Arab Palestinians have some "international borders." I assume you are talking about the recognition by the UN of the "sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967" as stipulated in the UN Acknowledgement to the proclamation of the State of Palestine (A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988). That is the recognized borders of "Palestine" after 1988.

If you are referring to something different, I would like a little more of a reference so I may address it directly.

Most Respectfully,
R

I was. I mean the international borders that Palestine has had since 1922.

(COMMENT)

The borders were established by the application of the Provisions of Article 22 (LoN Covenant), for the administration of the territory under the Mandate of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers. There was no country or nation established by these boundaries. The term "Palestine" was a short title used to describe the "Mandate of Palestine;" as stipulated by the Order in Council.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Mandate of Palestine had no territory or borders of its own. It was temporarily assigned to Palestine to render administrative assistance and advice and held Palestine in trust until the people could stand alone.

Palestine and its international borders continued to exist after the mandate left Palestine.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are misinterpreting boundaries. All the countries surrounding the territorial Mandate of Palestine, by 1946, had international boundaries. Not Palestine.

P F Tinmore, et al,

The only borders established in 1922, relative to the region under discussion, were those established for the Mandate of Palestine. They were not permanent international borders.

I was. I mean the international borders that Palestine has had since 1922.

(COMMENT)

The borders were established by the application of the Provisions of Article 22 (LoN Covenant), for the administration of the territory under the Mandate of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers. There was no country or nation established by these boundaries. The term "Palestine" was a short title used to describe the "Mandate of Palestine;" as stipulated by the Order in Council.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Mandate of Palestine had no territory or borders of its own. It was temporarily assigned to Palestine to render administrative assistance and advice and held Palestine in trust until the people could stand alone.

Palestine and its international borders continued to exist after the mandate left Palestine.

(COMMENT)

The UN and the Mandatory made a joint announcement as to the status that Palestine would have relative to the end of the Mandate.

Pertinent excerpts from the memorandum are as follows:

UK MEMORANDUM NAMES COMMISSION AS SUCCESSOR GOVERNMENT​

"Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.

"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.

"Where the sovereignty of Palestine lies at the present time is a disputed and perhaps academic legal question about which writers have expressed a number of different conclusions. Where the sovereignty of Palestine will lie after the 15th May, 1948, is perhaps also a question on which different views will be held, but so far as His Majesty's Government are aware, it is a question which it is unnecessary to answer in connection with any practical issues."

"After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine. It does not seem very material whether it is considered to be the de facto or the de jure Government. In any case, its title to be the Government of Palestine will rest on the resolution of the General Assembly."

"His Majesty's Government will recognize the United Nations Commission as the authority with which to make an agreement regarding the transfer of the assets of the Government of Palestine."

SOURCE: PAL/138 27 February 1948

When the Mandate ended, the Successor Government was the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC), not an orphan Palestine. The Territory went under trusteeship with the UN. The international boundaries around Palestine represented the limits to the sovereignty of the surrounding nations (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt); not the State, nation or country of Palestine.

Palestine (the territory formerly under Mandate) and its international borders continued to exist after the (mandatory) left Palestine; and was handed over to the UNPC for Governance.

On 15 MAY, the Jewish Agency declared independence on the hour the Mandate ended (midnight of 14/15 MAY)(S/747 16 May 1948).

HAVE HONOUR INFORM YOU THAT NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR JEWISH STATE CONSISTING OF MEMBERS OF ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE JEWISH BODIES PALESTINE WHICH HAD APPLIED TO UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION FOR RECOGNITION AS PROVISIONAL COUNCIL GOVERNMENT UNDER PART ONE B FOUR OF RESOLUTION OF GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON NOVEMBER 29TH 1947 MET YESTERDAY MAY 14TH AND ISSUED PROCLAMATION DECLARING FOLLOWING “ON NOVEMBER 29 1947 GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF UNITED NATIONS ADOPTED RESOLUTION FOR ESTABLISHMENT OF INDEPENDENT JEWISH STATE IN PALESTINE AND CALLED UPON INHABITANTS OF COUNTRY TO TAKE SUCH STEPS AS MAY BE NECESSARY ON THEIR PART TO PUT THE PLAN INTO EFFECT. THIS RECOGNITION BY UNITED NATIONS OF RIGHT OF JEWISH PEOPLE TO ESTABLISH THEIR INDEPENDENT STATE MAY NOT BE REVOKED. IT IS MOREOVER SELF-EVIDENT RIGHT OF JEWISH PEOPLE TO BE A NATION AS ALL OTHER NATIONS IN ITS OWN SOVEREIGN STATE. ACCORDINGLY WE MEMBERS OF NATIONAL COUNCIL REPRESENTING JEWISH PEOPLE IN PALESTINE AND ZIONIST MOVEMENT; MET TOGETHER IN SOLEMN ASSEMBLY TODAY, DAY OF TERMINATION OF BRITISH MANDATE FOR PALESTINE, BY VIRTUE OF NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT OF JEWISH PEOPLE AND OF RESOLUTION OF GENERAL ASSEMBLY HEREBY PROCLAIM ESTABLISHMENT OF JEWISH STATE IN PALESTINE TO BE CALLED ISRAEL. WE HEREBY DECLARE THAT AS FROM TERMINATION OF MANDATE THIS NIGHT OF 14TH TO 15TH MAY 1948 AND UNTIL SETTING UP OF DULY ELECTED BODIES OF STATE IN ACCORDANCE WITH CONSTITUTION TO BE DRAWN UP BY CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY NOT LATER THAN 1ST OCTOBER 1948 PRESENT NATIONAL COUNCIL SHALL ACT AS PROVISIONAL STATE COUNCIL AND ITS EXECUTIVE ORGAN SHALL CONSTITUTE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF STATE OF ISRAEL. STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE OPEN TO IMMIGRATION OF JEWS FROM ALL COUNTRIES OF DISPERSION WILL PROMOTE DEVELOPMENT OF COUNTRY FOR BENEFIT OF ALL INHABITANTS WILL BE BASED ON PRECEPTS OF LIBERTY JUSTICE AND PEACE WILL UPHOLD FULL SOCIAL AND POLITICAL EQUALITY OF ALL CITIZENS WITHOUT DISTINCTION RACE CREED OR SEX WILL GUARANTEE FULL FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE WORSHIP EDUCATION CULTURE AND LANGUAGE WILL SAFEGUARD SANCTITY AND INVIOLABILITY OF SHRINES AND HOLY PLACES OF ALL RELIGIONS AND WILL DEDICATE ITSELF TO PRINCIPLES OF UNITED NATIONS CHARTER. STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE. WE APPEAL TO UNITED NATIONS TO ASSIST JEWISH PEOPLE IN BUILDING OF ITS STATE AND TO ADMIT ISRAEL INTO FAMILY OF NATIONS”. ACCORDINGLY I BEG DECLARE ON BEHALF OF PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF STATE OF ISRAEL ITS READINESS TO SIGN DECLARATION AND UNDERTAKING PROVIDED FOR RESPECTIVELY IN PART ONE C AND PART ONE D OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY AND BEG HEREBY TO APPLY FOR ADMISSION OF STATE OF ISRAEL TO MEMBERSHIP OF UNITED NATIONS.

BEHALF PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL MOSHE SHERTOK FOREIGN SECRETARY

SOURCE: (S/747 16 May 1948)

On the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel, the Arab Armies invaded the territory. "The General Assembly relieved the Palestine Commission of its responsibilities and decided to appoint a mediator charged with promoting a peaceful settlement in cooperation with the Truce Commission. On 20 May, Count Folke Bernadotte, President of the Swedish Red Cross, was chosen as United Nations Mediator." During the period "between February and July 1949, under United Nations auspices, armistice agreements were signed between Israel, on the one hand, and Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria on the other." The Arab Armies had failed to prevent the establishment of the Jewish State and in the process of attempting to subvert the implementation of Resolution 181(II), Israel had gained control of additional territory not originally allocated to them. Thus the lines in place today, as amended by Peace Treaties with Egypt and Jordan.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

You are misinterpreting boundaries. All the countries surrounding the territorial Mandate of Palestine, by 1946, had international boundaries. Not Palestine.

Do you have some documentation to confirm that allegation?

 

[Indeependent]

You are misinterpreting boundaries. All the countries surrounding the territorial Mandate of Palestine, by 1946, had international boundaries. Not Palestine.

Do you have some documentation to confirm that allegation?

You can have documentation stuck up your anal canal, and if it disagrees with you, you're STILL gonna conjure up some bullshit sound-bite to swat it away.

 

[P F Tinmore]

During the period "between February and July 1949, under United Nations auspices, armistice agreements were signed between Israel, on the one hand, and Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria on the other.

Israel had gained control of additional territory not originally allocated to them.

What is the correlation between these two statements?

How do they relate to each other?

 

[P F Tinmore]

It is a state that refuses to participate in good faith negotiations for peace...

Since when are a people required to negotiate their inalienable rights?

Got a link?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Let see!

During the period "between February and July 1949, under United Nations auspices, armistice agreements were signed between Israel, on the one hand, and Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria on the other.

Israel had gained control of additional territory not originally allocated to them.

What is the correlation between these two statements?

How do they relate to each other?

(COMMENT)

They correlate to an end result.

It is a state that refuses to participate in good faith negotiations for peace...

Since when are a people required to negotiate their inalienable rights?

Got a link?

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinian does not have an "inalienable right" to Israel or the sovereignty thereof; they have a territorial dispute.

Considering it equally essential that all States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter,

The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,

Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

SOURCE: A/RES/25/2625 24 October 1970

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Arab Palestinian does not have an "inalienable right" to Israel or the sovereignty thereof; they have a territorial dispute.

Israel sits on Palestine land inside Palestine's international borders.

Where is the dispute?

 

[P F Tinmore]

...refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State...

Have the Palestinians ever crossed an Israeli international boundary?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

I read a baby just died from inhalation of gases in a shelling in Rafah in Israel's ground operations.

Many reports of gases being used on civilians.

 

[toastman]

The Arab Palestinian does not have an "inalienable right" to Israel or the sovereignty thereof; they have a territorial dispute.

Israel sits on Palestine land inside Palestine's international borders.

Where is the dispute?

 

[toastman]

It is a state that refuses to participate in good faith negotiations for peace...

Since when are a people required to negotiate their inalienable rights?

Got a link?

Where did Rocco say that? Why do you always ask such stupid and irrelevant questions.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Best thing for you is to shutup and listen to people like Rocco who know what they are talking about.

 

[toastman]

I read a baby just died from inhalation of gases in a shelling in Rafah in Israel's ground operations.

Many reports of gases being used on civilians.

And who is reporting this lie?

 

[Daniyel]

I read a baby just died from inhalation of gases in a shelling in Rafah in Israel's ground operations.

Many reports of gases being used on civilians.

Since all the innocents die for Allah and the Jihad are Sha'hids - The Hamas promised him 72 virgins, go figure.
[MENTION=37610]SherriMunnerlyn[/MENTION]

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

I read a baby just died from inhalation of gases in a shelling in Rafah in Israel's ground operations.

Many reports of gases being used on civilians.

And who is reporting this lie?

The people being gased report it, noone would know better then them.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

One shroud is much smaller than all the others. It is of the youngest victim, Njoud, just 9 months old. The doctor picks her up with one hand. She is wearing a diaper and a Minnie Mouse T-shirt with a pink bow.

Standing outside the door of the morgue is Riyad Abu Saleh, 45. He is waiting to receive the body of his eldest daughter, Fatma, 24. Her husband, Yasser Abu Jamaa, and their three young children, ages 6, 4, and 2, were killed with her. Fatma was cut in two by the airstrike. Only half of her body is at the European Hospital morgue. Abu Saleh must go to the Nasser Hospital to collect the other half.

"We pulled her out of the rubble in pieces," Abu Saleh says.

"We pulled her out of the rubble in pieces," Abu Saleh says.*"We want the Israelis to leave; we want the border crossings open; we want a life of dignity without all this killing. We are under siege, and death is being brought upon us."

The attack on the Abu Jamaa family's house was one of the deadliest strikes since the beginning of Israel's assault on Gaza...


'They Killed 25 to Get One'

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Let see!

During the period "between February and July 1949, under United Nations auspices, armistice agreements were signed between Israel, on the one hand, and Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria on the other.

Israel had gained control of additional territory not originally allocated to them.

What is the correlation between these two statements?

How do they relate to each other?

(COMMENT)

They correlate to an end result.

Most Respectfully,
R

You misunderstood the question.

How did Israel gain control of Palestinian land in a war with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt?

 

[Daniyel]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Let see!

What is the correlation between these two statements?

How do they relate to each other?

(COMMENT)

They correlate to an end result.

Most Respectfully,
R

You misunderstood the question.

How did Israel gain control of Palestinian land in a war with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt?

That's the point, it wasnt Palestinian land.

 

[Billo_Really]

That's the point, it wasnt Palestinian land.

That's not the point. The point is you cannot acquire land by force. That has been outlawed ever since the end of WWII.

And "that land" you are referring to, was never part of the mandate given to the Zionists.