Breaking: NASA ranks 2017 as the second-warmest year, after 2016

[anotherlife]

Global warming has nothing to do with clean air and clean water, dumbass. CO2 isn't pollution.

Thats right, carbon dioxide is non toxic.
But burning fossil fuels generates more than just CO2.
Hardly any carbon dioxide is generated without generating a bunch of other pollutants along with it.

Carbon dioxide IS toxic. As a war gas, it causes awful skin burns and boiled. It turns water red too. Frequently observed at volcanic lakes. Kills animals and plants that are not tall.

Carbon Dioxide has never been used as a "war gas," numbskull. It also doesn't turn water red. Is soda water red? Soda is water and favoring with CO2 dissovled in the water.

Incorrect. See any reference on volcanic lakes.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

As you damned well know, it is not the government that will spend trillions of dollars on windmills and solar.

No more "green energy" subsidies?

It is the utility companies, with or without subsidies.

How much are they spending because solar and wind is groovy? How much because of mandates?

Because both wind and solar generate electricity cheaper than any fossil fuel.

Baloney.

https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine...nergy-costs-wind-energy-costs-LCOE-Lazard.png

And wind and solar continue to come down in price, even as fossil fuels and nuclear continue to go up in price.

Yeah, phony numbers for equipment that only produces 30% of the time is very convincing.
Where do they add in the cost for idling a natgas plant nearby for when the wind slows or when clouds cover the sun?

Are you just being stupid, or are purposely lying? That chart is the cost per MW/Hr produced, not nameplate potential. And as the gridscale storage, whether by batteries or other means, comes online, the renewables will even be cheaper. One of the primary costs today of renewables is that they often overproduce, so they are idled, and the potential electricity they could have produced at that time is wasted. With storage, that energy could be used when they are not producing enough. The solar system with Tesla battery backup on Maui is presently doing just that.

That chart is the cost per MW/Hr produced, not nameplate potential.

Baloney.

What is the nameplate potential for Ivanpah? What is the actual output?

Now Pattycake, are you too unable to read a simple chart? Seems to be a problem with you 'Conservatives'. Note that the cost of Solar Thermal is between $119 and $182 dollars. Not even in the competition. In the meantime, Gas, combined cycle, is the only generation presently competitive with PV solar and wind. And both PV solar and wind are coming down in price.

I read your simple BS chart just fine.
Now how much was Ivanpah supposed to produce?
How much does it actually produce, not counting the nat gas they burn. LOL!

 

[Old Rocks]

Given the price of solar thermal, what the hell makes you think that I am advocating the use of that? And why are you afraid to address the price of PV solar and that of wind? Both cheaper than any fossil fuel, and continuing to get cheaper. Todd, you are changing the subject. We are talking about the fact that now there is no longer any reason to build any new coal generation facilities. And, as the price of grid scale batteries comes down, there will be a point at which gas generation will be too expensive, compared to renewables. This will happen without the need of government subsidies, simply on economic basis.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Given the price of solar thermal, what the hell makes you think that I am advocating the use of that? And why are you afraid to address the price of PV solar and that of wind? Both cheaper than any fossil fuel, and continuing to get cheaper. Todd, you are changing the subject. We are talking about the fact that now there is no longer any reason to build any new coal generation facilities. And, as the price of grid scale batteries comes down, there will be a point at which gas generation will be too expensive, compared to renewables. This will happen without the need of government subsidies, simply on economic basis.

Pick your favorite large scale wind or solar facility.
We can discuss promised output versus actual output.

 

[Old Rocks]

Again, you are trying diversion. The comparison on the chart is actual cost per MW/Hr produced, as you well know. The label on a solar panel is the max output at noon at the equator. You then do the figures for the lattitude that you live at. And how much sun and cloudy days you get. Even with that, the new utility installations are putting out electricity cheaper than coal or gas. And that is the final arbitrator.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, your bs chart is bs.

 

[Old Rocks]

And you are lying for the sake of the energy corporations. Texas is putting in solar and wind hand over fist. But we all know how liberal those damned Texans are. LOL

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you can't prove the cost of energy at a single facility, why would I believe your numbers for all of it?

 

[Old Rocks]

5. Texas Wind Power is Cheaper than Fossil Fuels

This factoid received a lot of attention when President Obama included it in his State of the Union speech this year. An analysis by Lazard, LLC found that the cost of wind production in Texas averages between $36–51 per megawatt-hour (MWh), not including government subsidies.

Coal costs, on the other hand, range from $65–150 per MWh and gas from $52–218 per MWh. Bloomberg New Energy also reported that wind energy is cheaper than fossil fuels, citing the levelized cost of energy from wind in Iowa and Texas is lower than the levelized cost of coal at $59 per MWh—again, without subsidies.

Wind energy makes sense—and cents—which adds up to savings on consumers' electric bills. On an average day, wind energy makes up 10 percent—or 14,000 megawatts—of Texas' total electricity, saving consumers more than $950 million each year.

6 Reasons Why Texas Leads the Nation in Wind Power

There you go. And you are certainly not going to find this out on Fox.

 

[IanC]

Tell the Australians how renewable power has reduced their electricity bills.

You may want to keep a barrier between you and them if you want your nose to remain straight.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Tell the Australians how renewable power has reduced their electricity bills.

You may want to keep a barrier between you and them if you want your nose to remain straight.

Tell the Australians.....

Or the Germans........

 

[mamooth]

For the oceans, where it counts most, 2017 was the warmest year ever.

2017 was the warmest year on record for the global ocean

Expect that trend to continue. Ocean temps are much less noisy/variable than land temps, so they show the trend much more clearly.

 

[Old Rocks]

Tell the Australians how renewable power has reduced their electricity bills.

You may want to keep a barrier between you and them if you want your nose to remain straight.

Tell the Australians.....

Or the Germans........

Tell them what? How well the combination of wind and grid scale storage is? They already know;

Tesla Battery Saved Electrical Grid In Australia When Coal Failed

Tesla Battery Saved Electrical Grid In Australia When Coal Failed

Tesla’s new battery backup facility at an Australian wind farm has already passed a hefty test when a power outage occurred this week. Interestingly enough, instead of it coming to the aid of the renewable energy, it helped out a failing coal-fired power plant. How did this happen? In short, the battery left the fossil fuel’s backup service without anything to do as it was pushing energy into the grid.

Elon Musk was able to hold his promise of a 100-megawatt Tesla Powerpack being built in a matter of months at the Hornsdale Wind Farm in South Australia. It became active when it detected that the Loy Yang coal power plant went offline for an undisclosed technical reason. The battery was able to inject over seven megawatts into the national grid in record time -- 0.14 seconds.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Tell the Australians how renewable power has reduced their electricity bills.

You may want to keep a barrier between you and them if you want your nose to remain straight.

Tell the Australians.....

Or the Germans........

Tell them what? How well the combination of wind and grid scale storage is? They already know;

Tesla Battery Saved Electrical Grid In Australia When Coal Failed

Tesla Battery Saved Electrical Grid In Australia When Coal Failed

Tesla’s new battery backup facility at an Australian wind farm has already passed a hefty test when a power outage occurred this week. Interestingly enough, instead of it coming to the aid of the renewable energy, it helped out a failing coal-fired power plant. How did this happen? In short, the battery left the fossil fuel’s backup service without anything to do as it was pushing energy into the grid.

Elon Musk was able to hold his promise of a 100-megawatt Tesla Powerpack being built in a matter of months at the Hornsdale Wind Farm in South Australia. It became active when it detected that the Loy Yang coal power plant went offline for an undisclosed technical reason. The battery was able to inject over seven megawatts into the national grid in record time -- 0.14 seconds.

Tell them what?

Tell the Germans how all their "green energy" is cheaper.

 

[Old Rocks]

Looks like we are going to have a very warm 2018.