Breaking Bad: The Final 8

[g5000]

so... which of those who died do you consider innocent...?

Lydia...?

Todd...?

the fat fuck on the recliner...?

the Cadillac...?

I assume he was referring to Andrea. Or a bit further back the little kid that witnessed the train job.

those, among several others, would definitely qualify as innocent victims...

but I thought he was referring specifically to the action in the final episode...

I was referring to Jesse's girlfriend who was killed since I last posted to this topic.

 

[Zona]

Those guys had close to.70 million....they are all still there? All of them? Other than that, loved the ending.

 

[bayoubill]

there was something about the way Skylar looked at Walter in the final episode, with heartbreaking sorrow and love, that reminded me of something I'd seen somewhere's else...

couldn't remember what it was 'til now...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrigaQbUvZQ]The five point palm exploding heart technique - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

This series was extremely well conceived -- right up to the episode at the burial site where the Aryans killed Hank and his partner. Beginning with the absurd "gunfight" the series has devolved from the ridiculous to the sublimely incredible. While stretched credibility is an acceptable component of good fiction one tends to lose interest when fiction borders on fantasy as it has done throughout the final three episodes of Breaking Bad, which could have been done much better. As it is, what could have ended up as memorably good fiction has slid into the category of onanistic fantasy.

One excellent example of good tv series fiction is the currently ongoing, Homeland, which stretches credibility but never drifts toward fantasy. Another good one was, The Wire. And while Boardwalk Empire is based on real people and vaguely factual circumstances it is a highly fanciful example of extremely well-done fiction.

In my opinion, Breaking Bad got off to an admirable start but has ended as an increasingly silly disappointment in the vampires and zombies category.

You are the only one I've ever heard from who didn't like the ending.

There were just so many things about the final episodes that simply make no sense to me. Such as Walt's affection for Hank while Hank, the archetypal authoritarian brute who benefited from Walt and Skyler's generosity, was eagerly disposed to putting Walt in prison and destroying his family. But in spite of the fact that the boss Aryan rather generously spared Walt's life and let him get away with eleven million dollars, Walt was vindictively hateful of that Aryan for killing a loathsome bastard like Hank. That is comparable to loving one's cancer and hating the doctor who excises it.

That's just one element of the story that throws my thinking completely off balance because it makes no sense.

I've already explained how it made perfect sense that, of course, Walt would love a family member more than a gangster.

You just don't like the ending because they didn't end the show the way you wanted them to.

Well guess what? You can try writing your own tv show. Good luck with that.

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

This series was extremely well conceived -- right up to the episode at the burial site where the Aryans killed Hank and his partner. Beginning with the absurd "gunfight" the series has devolved from the ridiculous to the sublimely incredible. While stretched credibility is an acceptable component of good fiction one tends to lose interest when fiction borders on fantasy as it has done throughout the final three episodes of Breaking Bad, which could have been done much better. As it is, what could have ended up as memorably good fiction has slid into the category of onanistic fantasy.

One excellent example of good tv series fiction is the currently ongoing, Homeland, which stretches credibility but never drifts toward fantasy. Another good one was, The Wire. And while Boardwalk Empire is based on real people and vaguely factual circumstances it is a highly fanciful example of extremely well-done fiction.

In my opinion, Breaking Bad got off to an admirable start but has ended as an increasingly silly disappointment in the vampires and zombies category.

You are the only one I've ever heard from who didn't like the ending.

Well, here's another one. It isn't that I didn't like it - I was mildly disappointed by it. I expected more. I sat there, waiting for something to REALLY happen, and it never did. I found the automatic rifle in the trunk of the car not believeable. I just don't think it would have (or could have) happened that way.

I found Walt's last contact with Skyler unfulfilling at best. The forcing the money on the couple to give to Walt's son and the laser sighting-in on their chests to make the point that they should follow through was clever, but, once again, not very believeable.

I don't know - I really liked this show. I have seen every episode and will probably go through it all again on Netflix. But, somehow, I felt vaguely let down by the final episode. What the hell, I felt the same way about the final edpisode of The Sopranos as well.

You were waiting for something to happen?

The whole finale was action packed from start to finish and they tied up every single loose end.

 

[MikeK]

Just had to have a talk with a friend warning her off of watching any more Breaking Bad for awhile. She did a season and a half over the weekend and I think it really kind of shook her up.

There should be a warning label on the show or something. Breaking Bad is like a fine whiskey. As good as it is, if you chug a whole bottle in one night, you're going to end up on the floor.

Breaking Bad is television fiction. When you say your friend was "shook up" by it please be more specific. What effect does it have on her?

 

[MikeK]

I've already explained how it made perfect sense that, of course, Walt would love a family member more than a gangster.

You've explained how it makes perfect sense to you.

In terms of Hank being a family member, he wasn't a blood relative, such as a brother, an uncle, or a first cousin. He was an obnoxious, egomaniacal cop who was married to Skyler's ditzy sister and was "family" only in terms of marital tradition. I have a so-called brother-in-law whom I was forced to associate with while my wife was alive but whom I've had absolutely nothing to do with since her funeral -- and he isn't nearly as obnoxious as Hank Schraeder.

Have you considered that, in spite of the source of the money, were it not for Walt and Skyler's generosity Hank would still be confined to bed, playing with rocks and shitting in a bedpan? In spite of that, and in spite of the "family" factor you've cited, Hank punched Walt in the mouth when he learned the truth and has assiduously been trying to put Walt in prison and destroy his family -- even though Walt is, in the logically moral sense, no worse than a 1920s whiskey bootlegger?

If Hank were not a compulsively driven, perversely authoritarian brute, he would not be conducting an autonomous investigation of his brother-in-law. In fact he is obliged by rules to inform his superior of what he's doing, and why. Yet you say you can relate to Walt's apparent affection for this degenerate power freak.

Pardon me if I cannot.

You just don't like the ending because they didn't end the show the way you wanted them to.

That's true. I was hoping for poetic justice in the form of Hank and Marie ending up in prison, which Walt's brilliant "confession" disc could easily have facilitated -- mainly because Hank saw fit to conduct the investigation without notifying his superiors of his progress.

Well guess what? You can try writing your own tv show. Good luck with that.

I might try that if I were capable. But I'm not. I don't have the capacity for retained continuity, which is an essential requirement for creating fiction. But my appreciation of good fiction is predicated on common sense expectation. And Walt's concern for Hank simply made no sense to me.

Try putting yourself in Walt's position. Would you be willing to trade your buried fortune to save the life of a pathological predator like Hank?

Put yourself in Hank's position. Would you be so compulsively eager to put your brother-in-law in prison and destroy his family if you learned he was bootlegging methamphetamine -- even though his generosity is the reason why you are walking again? Or would you at the very most inform your superior of what you've learned and ask to be recused from the case?

And let's continue this discussion in an adult, civil manner. There is no need for hostility.

 

[Billo_Really]

there was something about the way Skylar looked at Walter in the final episode, with heartbreaking sorrow and love, that reminded me of something I'd seen somewhere's else...

couldn't remember what it was 'til now...

The five point palm exploding heart technique - YouTube

I loved the episode where Skylar told Walt, "I can't even keep you out of my bed!"

Which just proves, "Women love danger boy!"

 

[Billo_Really]

There are plenty of recipes for making meth on the http://www.usmessageboard.com/tv-forum/www..

But none of them turn good meth, blue.

They might make it more chalky; more milky; more clear; more phetti (bubbly); but not blue. To be quite honest, meth hasn't been really any good since the mid-80's. Ever since they got P2P off the market. "Lemon Drops" were the bomb!

I mean, so I've been told...

 

[MikeK]

You were waiting for something to happen?

The whole finale was action packed from start to finish and they tied up every single loose end.

They could have tied up those loose ends just as easily, and just as sensibly and credibly, by having Batman or Captain Marvel swoop in and make everything right.

 

[candycorn]

You are the only one I've ever heard from who didn't like the ending.

Well, here's another one. It isn't that I didn't like it - I was mildly disappointed by it. I expected more. I sat there, waiting for something to REALLY happen, and it never did. I found the automatic rifle in the trunk of the car not believeable. I just don't think it would have (or could have) happened that way.

I found Walt's last contact with Skyler unfulfilling at best. The forcing the money on the couple to give to Walt's son and the laser sighting-in on their chests to make the point that they should follow through was clever, but, once again, not very believeable.

I don't know - I really liked this show. I have seen every episode and will probably go through it all again on Netflix. But, somehow, I felt vaguely let down by the final episode. What the hell, I felt the same way about the final edpisode of The Sopranos as well.

You were waiting for something to happen?

The whole finale was action packed from start to finish and they tied up every single loose end.

Agreed.

I think some tend to expect too much from the final episodes of series. I can't think of a different way it should have went.

Was Skyler supposed to tell Walt she loved him? No.
Was Walt and Jesse supposed to kiss and make up after Walt watched Jane (sp?) die, poisoned Brock, dimed on his location to Todd's family? No.
Was Grechen and Elliot supposed to be killed? Walt is using them the same way he used everyone except Walt Jr. at some point or the other.

I can't think of anything that didn't make sense in the last episode. Somehow, I kept expecting Ted to get some of Walt's rage (it's hard to connect the dots but it was in this season that Saul told Walt that Skyler had given him some money as I recall. That was a loose end that didn't get tied up I don't think. But it's a very minor thing.

I can say that I don't have a problem with people not being fulfilled by Walt's demise; he died with a smile on his face instead of in a miserable snail infested hole like he should have died. I am happy that Skyler didn't get off. I kept expecting her to come out with "I put away some of your money for Holly, Walt Jr. and I".

One thing I didn't buy was the whole false identity thing. I mean, what was the point of getting a new identity if you're never going to interact with anyone? He could have just as easily been in that Native American's ranch house in New Mexico (the guy he brought the truck from 2 episodes before the finale) than that ranch house in New Hampshire.

Again, a minor thing since I don't have much interaction with those who have been disappeared.

Loved the final episode; at it's worst BB was much better than a lot of what was on TV. I am watching re-runs and came across this opening..

I would suggest this was the low-point:

 

[Billo_Really]

They could have tied up those loose ends just as easily, and just as sensibly and credibly, by having Batman or Captain Marvel swoop in and make everything right.

I was kind of hoping for G. Gordan Liddy?

 

[dblack]

They could have tied up those loose ends just as easily, and just as sensibly and credibly, by having Batman or Captain Marvel swoop in and make everything right.

I was kind of hoping for G. Gordan Liddy?

You would have been a great cameo in BB.

 

[MikeK]

Agreed.

I think some tend to expect too much from the final episodes of series. I can't think of a different way it should have went.

That's because you are receptive to fantasy -- and there is nothing wrong with that. Some are and some aren't. I'm not, so I tend to be disappointed by and critical of contrived situations that make no sense to me.

But that should not suggest I found the entire Breaking Bad series disappointing because I didn't. My criticisms began with the episode in which Hank lured Walt to the burial site. Mainly because one of the most powerful bits of acting in that entire series was Jesse's virulent loathing for Hank, expressed from a hospital bed after the vicious beating inflicted by Hank.

Were it not for Walt's concern for Hank, Jesse could easily have Hank sent to prison for aggravated assault. So not only is it extremely questionable that Hank, thoroughly devoid of gratitude, would have the stupid audacity to approach Jesse, but for Jesse to forgive and forget and conspire to hurt Walt when he ultimately would be digging his own grave by doing so. There were better ways for Jesse to get even with Walt other than dealing with the devil. One such way is to simply kill him.

Jesse was being held by those local cops on suspicion. He had not yet been charged or visited by Saul, who probably would have gotten him released. So it makes sense for him to tell Hank to get lost or he would have his lawyer re-file charges, which would have been the end for Hank. It's just hard to believe Hank would have been brazenly and stupidly suicidal enough to approach Jesse that way.

 

[MikeK]

Was Walt and Jesse supposed to kiss and make up after Walt watched Jane (sp?) die, poisoned Brock, dimed on his location to Todd's family?

Considering the absolutely ruthless nature of Walt's demon side (Heisenberg), I would expect Walt to euthanize Jesse upon realizing what a self-loathing loose cannon Jesse had become. Heisenberg is far too calculating to allow such a time-bomb to just keep on ticking.

 

[dblack]

Was Walt and Jesse supposed to kiss and make up after Walt watched Jane (sp?) die, poisoned Brock, dimed on his location to Todd's family?

Considering the absolutely ruthless nature of Walt's demon side (Heisenberg), I would expect Walt to euthanize Jesse upon realizing what a self-loathing loose cannon Jesse had become. Heisenberg is far too calculating to allow such a time-bomb to just keep on ticking.

That's exactly why this series was so brilliant. The writers never allowed things to be so predictable and black and white. That's why, despite some of the obviously implausible technical details you've been pointing out, I consider it to be one of the most realistic character studies ever aired on television. Real people, even those 'breaking bad', are conflicted. It's that tension that makes characters interesting and it's why I kept watching all the way through.

 

[candycorn]

Was Walt and Jesse supposed to kiss and make up after Walt watched Jane (sp?) die, poisoned Brock, dimed on his location to Todd's family?

Considering the absolutely ruthless nature of Walt's demon side (Heisenberg), I would expect Walt to euthanize Jesse upon realizing what a self-loathing loose cannon Jesse had become. Heisenberg is far too calculating to allow such a time-bomb to just keep on ticking.

That's exactly why this series was so brilliant. The writers never allowed things to be so predictable and black and white. That's why, despite some of the obviously implausible technical details you've been pointing out, I consider it to be one of the most realistic character studies ever aired on television. Real people, even those 'breaking bad', are conflicted. It's that tension that makes characters interesting and it's why I kept watching all the way through.

I think Mike makes some good points. But I think you sum it up very well; there is good and bad in all of us. We say things on the Internet we would never say in person.

 

[MikeK]

I can't think of anything that didn't make sense in the last episode.

Okay. Let's consider one component of that episode -- the machine-gun in the trunk.

You are a girl, so it's not likely you are interested in or familiar with either firearms or the level of advanced and experienced mechanical expertise it would take to produce such a contraption. These are guy things so it follows that guys will be more concerned with such details. Even if it were possible to produce it the odds of it functioning reliably are far less than good. And presuming it would function as intended, what are the odds of getting it properly positioned and having all the ducks in a row? I would suggest those odds are about equal to having Batman crash through a window and save the day.

Aside from that single consideration, the idea that the weakened-and-dying-from-cancer Walt is riding around with a trunkful of money in a stolen car for as long as it takes to achieve all the things we're seeing in this final episode reaches significantly beyond being simply far-fetched. I would say it crosses the border from fiction into fantasy. It appears to me the writers ran up against time constraints and were forced to expediently wrap it up.

 

[MikeK]

[...]at it's worst BB was much better than a lot of what was on TV.[...]

I agree. And I should tell you I thoroughly enjoyed Breaking Bad and eagerly looked forward to each episode -- until the stretch from fiction to fantasy began.

PS: Thanks for posting the Heisenberg Song. I like good Mariachi, and that is a good one.

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

I've already explained how it made perfect sense that, of course, Walt would love a family member more than a gangster.

You've explained how it makes perfect sense to you.

In terms of Hank being a family member, he wasn't a blood relative, such as a brother, an uncle, or a first cousin. He was an obnoxious, egomaniacal cop who was married to Skyler's ditzy sister and was "family" only in terms of marital tradition. I have a so-called brother-in-law whom I was forced to associate with while my wife was alive but whom I've had absolutely nothing to do with since her funeral -- and he isn't nearly as obnoxious as Hank Schraeder.

Have you considered that, in spite of the source of the money, were it not for Walt and Skyler's generosity Hank would still be confined to bed, playing with rocks and shitting in a bedpan? In spite of that, and in spite of the "family" factor you've cited, Hank punched Walt in the mouth when he learned the truth and has assiduously been trying to put Walt in prison and destroy his family -- even though Walt is, in the logically moral sense, no worse than a 1920s whiskey bootlegger?

If Hank were not a compulsively driven, perversely authoritarian brute, he would not be conducting an autonomous investigation of his brother-in-law. In fact he is obliged by rules to inform his superior of what he's doing, and why. Yet you say you can relate to Walt's apparent affection for this degenerate power freak.

Pardon me if I cannot.

You just don't like the ending because they didn't end the show the way you wanted them to.

That's true. I was hoping for poetic justice in the form of Hank and Marie ending up in prison, which Walt's brilliant "confession" disc could easily have facilitated -- mainly because Hank saw fit to conduct the investigation without notifying his superiors of his progress.

Well guess what? You can try writing your own tv show. Good luck with that.

I might try that if I were capable. But I'm not. I don't have the capacity for retained continuity, which is an essential requirement for creating fiction. But my appreciation of good fiction is predicated on common sense expectation. And Walt's concern for Hank simply made no sense to me.

Try putting yourself in Walt's position. Would you be willing to trade your buried fortune to save the life of a pathological predator like Hank?

Put yourself in Hank's position. Would you be so compulsively eager to put your brother-in-law in prison and destroy his family if you learned he was bootlegging methamphetamine -- even though his generosity is the reason why you are walking again? Or would you at the very most inform your superior of what you've learned and ask to be recused from the case?

And let's continue this discussion in an adult, civil manner. There is no need for hostility.

Just because YOU hate Hank doesn't mean Walt did. Hank was just doing his job.

Marie didn't deserve to go to prison. That would have been a bad ending. An innocent woman going to jail? That's the ending you were hoping for? How sick.