Bowe Bergdahl: Considering the Evidence before us

[NYcarbineer]

He was not a POW, not even the Pentagon classified him as one.

Bergdahl Never Listed By Pentagon As Prisoner Of War « CBS DC

no American soldier captured in Afghanistan is labeled a POW, they are not using that term, even if they are prisoners of our enemy whom we are at war with....

The Pentagon defines “missing/captured” as a member of the armed forces who has been “seized as the result of action of an unfriendly military or paramilitary force in a foreign country.” Some would say that amounts to being a POW. For purposes of reporting and recording the status of service members, the Pentagon some years ago stopped using the term “prisoner of war,” although it awards a POW Medal for eligible service members and it has a Defense POW/Missing Persons Office.

Still doesn't make them a POW, now does it? You're forgetting something. He willfully gave himself over to the Taliban.

So it makes him a hostage? Like the ones Reagan traded arms for?

 

[candycorn]

I really don't care about all the crap Republicans are inventing out of thin air about this guy.

.

With that you have drawn a very clear distinction between yourself and about 99% of the deranged conservatives on this forum.

Again, we don't know it's crap; let's let the process play out.

Here is what we know.

We traded an American Soldier for 5 Taliban fighters who were in Gitmo for something like 10 years. They are hardly going to tip the balance of power in Afghanistan or anywhere else. Good trade any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Very bad precedent however and not a trade I would have made.

 

[Esmeralda]

your point?

must be nice to be able to be critical of anyone in uniform while hiding in your basement.....i dont know what happened with this young man ...i do know at one time he was willing to step up and defend his country....more action than you have taken....btw...and then something went terribly wrong....

i do not expect to hear the truth from the government...we never have why expect it now...


pat tillman

Truly, that is just priceless.

Unless one has been in combat, how can we judge someone who has? It could be something like post traumatic stress that causes a man to break down while still in the combat zone. It is possible his superiors should have picked up on the fact he was having problems and pulled him from the front line before something tragic happened. It is possible, if we are going to back seat analyze this, that it is his superiors who should be at fault for the deaths of his comrades because he never should have been out there anyway. We DON'T KNOW the details, the inside of all of this, and should not be constructing a prosecution based on media reports.

It is hilarious the way the OP presents this topic: we need to wait for the facts to come out and the trial to take place, but, fuck all that, let's have some fun and prosecute him anyway. Too funny.

 

[Esmeralda]

your point?

must be nice to be able to be critical of anyone in uniform while hiding in your basement.....i dont know what happened with this young man ...i do know at one time he was willing to step up and defend his country....more action than you have taken....btw...and then something went terribly wrong....

i do not expect to hear the truth from the government...we never have why expect it now...


pat tillman

My point? Is that there is evidence pointing to Bergdahl being a traitor, to disgracing the uniform he wore. My father served, Bones. Desert Storm. Just about everyone on my side of the family from WWII on served, Dead or Alive. So forgive me, but I have a very unique perspective on the matter.

you cannot live on the laurels of your father....you do know that correct....

and before you start with your bs....my father was a veteran too

This illustrates how distant one becomes from reality when spending one's life in the basement palavering day and night on the internet.

All of us have people who have served--grandfathers, fathers, uncles, brothers, cousins, husbands....Having folks in your family who have served doesn't give you a "unique perspective." Thinking it does makes you a goon.

 

[JoeB131]

your point?

must be nice to be able to be critical of anyone in uniform while hiding in your basement.....i dont know what happened with this young man ...i do know at one time he was willing to step up and defend his country....more action than you have taken....btw...and then something went terribly wrong....

i do not expect to hear the truth from the government...we never have why expect it now...

pat tillman

My point? Is that there is evidence pointing to Bergdahl being a traitor, to disgracing the uniform he wore. My father served, Bones. Desert Storm. Just about everyone on my side of the family from WWII on served, Dead or Alive. So forgive me, but I have a very unique perspective on the matter.

Guy, you don't get credit for other people's service. You didn't sign up when your country needed you for THIS war. Bergdahl did. Maybe he shouldn't have. Maybe he wasn't fit for military service. BUt at least he made the effort.

Honestly, reading Hasting's reporting on this matter, what it looks like to me is that you had a guy who got in because the Army lowered the enlistment standards (although obviously, not low enough for you to get in) and wasn't fit for service. He had the double bad luck of being assigned to a unit with serious leadership and morale problems.

 

[JoeB131]

i have mixed feeling about the whole thing....seems a young man who stepped up to serve his country got in the mist of war and did not find it to his liking....naive on his part at best....but i think he became disillusioned like many have become serving in the needless war in afghanistan....history is on their side...the russians could not defeat them and they learned a lot fighting the russians....

now for this young man....i will wait and see what facts come out...so far all we have to go on is hear say....if he was awol then he should be prosecuted for that.....why was he promoted twice while a captive there are a lot of questions....about him...

but to hear people say they have creds cause their dad served is a little beyond me....to see someone hiding in their basement being so condemning of someone who stepped up and went to war...perhaps the bowe is a total failure but he did try....more than you can say for the op

I think it does concern me that the military went through a lot of trouble to hide the fact this guy walked away from his post.

I'm reminded of them hiding the fact that Tillman died in a friendly fire incident or making exagerated claims about the rescue of Jessica Lynch.

I kind of suspect that they didn't want to be forthcoming as to how badly morale had degraded in Afghanistan before Obama ordered the surge.

 

[candycorn]

I really don't care about all the crap Republicans are inventing out of thin air about this guy.

.

With that you have drawn a very clear distinction between yourself and about 99% of the deranged conservatives on this forum.

Again, we don't know it's crap; let's let the process play out.

Here is what we know.

We traded an American Soldier for 5 Taliban fighters who were in Gitmo for something like 10 years. They are hardly going to tip the balance of power in Afghanistan or anywhere else. Good trade any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Very bad precedent however and not a trade I would have made.

That being said, let's look at some quotes...

"I think this war is crazy and should never have happened,"

"I think our leaders and our people have wrongly attacked the peaceful people...,"

The statements do sort of speak for themselves....

 

[JoeB131]

Some of you need to remind yourselves that war is not that game you play on your computer.

Runs with Scissors is still traumatized by the time his character was killed on Level #432.

 

[strollingbones]

and the little kentucky girl ...the scapegoat for gitmo.....lindy?

 

[candycorn]

and the little kentucky girl ...the scapegoat for gitmo.....lindy?

Abu Grahib actually. Lindy England as I recall her name was.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I really don't care about all the crap Republicans are inventing out of thin air about this guy.

I'll believe the investigation when it's concluded instead of right-wing bloggers who act as if they have all the secret info on Bergdahl.

If Bergdahl were left in Afghanistan, it's predictable that Republicans would be accusing Obama of "letting a soldier rot and die" over there. So we can expect pretty cheap politics from them no matter what the outcome was going to be for this guy.

In the end, Obama trades 5 for 1 American. I think that brings Obama's total to about 8 of people released back to their home countries. How many did Bush set free and receive nothing in exchange? 450? 500? More?

Ironic, the outrage over 5 compared to 500 released by neo-cons.

Yeah, you're right genius...republicans are "inventing" this stuff. I have seen interview after interview with members of this clown's platoon. From his "close friend" to his team leader. Indeed, they are making all this up.

Do yourself a favor. Shut the fuck up. You are embarrassing yourself, Nazi.

 

[candycorn]

With that you have drawn a very clear distinction between yourself and about 99% of the deranged conservatives on this forum.

Again, we don't know it's crap; let's let the process play out.

Here is what we know.

We traded an American Soldier for 5 Taliban fighters who were in Gitmo for something like 10 years. They are hardly going to tip the balance of power in Afghanistan or anywhere else. Good trade any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Very bad precedent however and not a trade I would have made.

That being said, let's look at some quotes...

"I think this war is crazy and should never have happened,"

"I think our leaders and our people have wrongly attacked the peaceful people...,"

The statements do sort of speak for themselves....

bump

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Based on the evidence, I am convinced Bergdahl deserted his post. This is the man that Obama elected to honor in the White House. This is the man that Susan Rice said “served with honor and distinction.” Maybe some of you guys and gals can figure this one out. I sure as hell can't. Frankly, I think the entire Obama administration is looney tunes.

Based on recollection of my time in the military (1956 - 1960), there are two ways one may be charged with desertion: (1) A written or witnessed statement, combined with unauthorized absence, of intention to depart and never return, or (2) AWOL in excess of 30 days.

Unless there is some written or witnessed evidence of intention to desert, and if it can be shown Bergdahl was taken prisoner less than 30 days after he left his post, he can be charged with AWOL -- not desertion. All he has to say is he intended to return but was taken prisoner.

And based on all I've read and heard about Bergdahl his actions can be explained as being caused by a serious case of mental deficiency (PTSD), which could mitigate in a courts martial.

This situation promises to be interesting.

 

[Jarhead]

Again, we don't know it's crap; let's let the process play out.

Here is what we know.

We traded an American Soldier for 5 Taliban fighters who were in Gitmo for something like 10 years. They are hardly going to tip the balance of power in Afghanistan or anywhere else. Good trade any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Very bad precedent however and not a trade I would have made.

That being said, let's look at some quotes...

"I think this war is crazy and should never have happened,"

"I think our leaders and our people have wrongly attacked the peaceful people...,"

The statements do sort of speak for themselves....

bump

I just need to correct one thing you said Candycorn....

We did not trade 5 Taliban Soldiers. They were not POW's caught on the battlefield. They were men accused of committing NON WAR related crimes against Americans. We used our CIA, FBI and Military to find them and arrest them. Due to the nature of their positions with our enemy, we did not charge them so we could get information from them.

Obama and Holder BOTH made that clear. They were criminals and deserve a trial in US courts.

So we did not trade POW's for a POW.
\
We traded accused criminals for a POW.

In essence, the President pardoned them.

 

[HenryBHough]

Hard for me to believe that a young man who did what most of you posters either didn't do or couldn't do, put his life on the line for his country, has had something go wrong with his head and is now being condemned for his actions.

To those that claim to love and support the military and are now condemning this young man; fuck off.

You're right. Reasonable to believe that most posters here never did desert their posts and put their lives in the hands of murderous terrorists to try to make a point. But to say the subject actually did that won't be known until there's a full and fair investigation. That's something that can't happen until Obama sees the poll results and can direct how the investigation must turn out.

Be patient.

 

[LoneLaugher]

[...]

Based on the evidence, I am convinced Bergdahl deserted his post. This is the man that Obama elected to honor in the White House. This is the man that Susan Rice said “served with honor and distinction.” Maybe some of you guys and gals can figure this one out. I sure as hell can't. Frankly, I think the entire Obama administration is looney tunes.

Based on recollection of my time in the military (1956 - 1960), there are two ways one may be charged with desertion: (1) A written or witnessed statement, combined with unauthorized absence, of intention to depart and never return, or (2) AWOL in excess of 30 days.

Unless there is some written or witnessed evidence of intention to desert, and if it can be shown Bergdahl was taken prisoner less than 30 days after he left his post, he can be charged with AWOL -- not desertion. All he has to say is he intended to return but was taken prisoner.

And based on all I've read and heard about Bergdahl his actions can be explained as being caused by a serious case of mental deficiency (PTSD), which could mitigate in a courts martial.

This situation promises to be interesting.

No shit! 1956 to 1960. Rough.

 

[RandallFlagg]

[...]

Based on the evidence, I am convinced Bergdahl deserted his post. This is the man that Obama elected to honor in the White House. This is the man that Susan Rice said “served with honor and distinction.” Maybe some of you guys and gals can figure this one out. I sure as hell can't. Frankly, I think the entire Obama administration is looney tunes.

Based on recollection of my time in the military (1956 - 1960), there are two ways one may be charged with desertion: (1) A written or witnessed statement, combined with unauthorized absence, of intention to depart and never return, or (2) AWOL in excess of 30 days.

Unless there is some written or witnessed evidence of intention to desert, and if it can be shown Bergdahl was taken prisoner less than 30 days after he left his post, he can be charged with AWOL -- not desertion. All he has to say is he intended to return but was taken prisoner.

And based on all I've read and heard about Bergdahl his actions can be explained as being caused by a serious case of mental deficiency (PTSD), which could mitigate in a courts martial.

This situation promises to be interesting.

Actually, that's not quite true. There is an entire platoon (minus those killed looking for this dirt bag) that say that he deserted his post. I have seen interviews with his former Squad Leader, Team Leader and Platoon Sergeant. All say the same thing. He intended to desert because he was "upset" with the US Army. AWOL in excess of 30 days WHILE IN A COMBAT THEATER is desertion. The UCMJ is clear on that and always has been.

After Vietnam, I saw several instances of soldiers who went AWOL over 30 days and were processed out on Bad Conduct discharges. Not one ever did time in Leavenworth. It used to be a running joke. Tired of the Army? Go home for 30 or so days, report to the CCF and get processed out.

The key here is desertion under combat operations. That is the biggie. The MOTHER of all charges. It got Eddie Slovak executed in WWII. You CAN NOT desert your unit in a combat theater. There are far too many people depending on you (as you well know).

 

[The T]

EXCLUSIVE: Bergdahl declared jihad in 2010, secret documents show


Hmmm....

U.S. Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl at one point during his captivity converted to Islam, fraternized openly with his captors and declared himself a "mujahid," or warrior for Islam, according to secret documents prepared on the basis of a purported eyewitness account and obtained by Fox News.
The reports indicate that Bergdahl's relations with his Haqqani captors morphed over time, from periods of hostility, where he was treated very much like a hostage, to periods where, as one source told Fox News, "he became much more of an accepted fellow" than is popularly understood. He even reportedly was allowed to carry a gun at times.

The documents show that Bergdahl at one point escaped his captors for five days and was kept, upon his re-capture, in a metal cage, like an animal. In addition, the reports detail discussions of prisoner swaps and other attempts at a negotiated resolution to the case that appear to have commenced as early as the fall of 2009.

Read more at the link...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Bowe Bergdahl: Considering the Evidence before us

Evidence must be considered in an objective manner and in the context of a presumption of innocence, not in a subjective, partisan manner in the context of a presumption of guilt, as practiced by most on the right.

 

[Vigilante]

Taliban Commanders Say They Found Bergdahl Cursing His Countrymen

*6*/*5*/*2014* NBC News ^ ...When the leftist news media TURNS on obuma, you KNOW the rats are leaving the sinking ship!

The Taliban found Pfc. Bowe Bergdahl walking alone, acting abnormally and cursing his countrymen before they captured him in Afghanistan in 2009, two men who were Taliban commanders at the time told NBC News on Thursday. They said that Afghan locals first informed fighters about the soldier, and then the fighters rushed to capture him. “Our people at the time couldn’t understand his language, but it was after he was shifted to a safe location, he said he wasn’t happy with his countrymen, but he didn’t intend to convert to Islam or join mujahideen (holy warriors),” one of the commanders...