Bleeding heart Jeb Bush: Trump’s plan would cost hundreds of $billions

[Luddly Neddite]

World of walls: How 65 countries have erected fences on their borders – four times as many as when the Berlin Wall was toppled – as governments try to hold back the tide of migrants

• Security fears and a widespread refusal to help refugees have fuelled a new spate of wall-building around the world
• A third of the world's countries have completed or are building barriers – compared to 16 at the fall of the Berlin Wall
• They include Israel's 'apartheid wall', India's 2,500-mile fence around Bangladesh and Morocco's huge sand 'berm'
• Experts are dismissive, saying: 'Their main function is theatre. They provide the sense of security, not real security'

Read more: How 65 countries have erected security walls on their borders
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[Luddly Neddite]

^^From the link in post #21
====================

Interesting that so many Mexicans are trapped on the US side and can't get home.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

WALLYBALL
Locals are using the US-Mexico border fence as a giant volleyball net

 

[bedowin62]

your pictures make the case for the other side leftard.

add a bit of electricity to the fence and it's a gam changer. heck make it solar-powered

 

[bedowin62]

World of walls: How 65 countries have erected fences on their borders – four times as many as when the Berlin Wall was toppled – as governments try to hold back the tide of migrants

• Security fears and a widespread refusal to help refugees have fuelled a new spate of wall-building around the world
• A third of the world's countries have completed or are building barriers – compared to 16 at the fall of the Berlin Wall
• They include Israel's 'apartheid wall', India's 2,500-mile fence around Bangladesh and Morocco's huge sand 'berm'
• Experts are dismissive, saying: 'Their main function is theatre. They provide the sense of security, not real security'

Read more: How 65 countries have erected security walls on their borders
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

"experts say......................"

you got your experts i got mine dummy


does Israel's wall work? yes or no?

 

[rightwinger]

Cheaper and more effective solution

Make fewer jobs on our side of the border and more jobs on their side of the border

 

[bedowin62]

Cheaper and more effective solution

Make fewer jobs on our side of the border and more jobs on their side of the border

NAFTA?

 

[Pete7469]

Jeb Bush is right.

Building a fence is not the answer.

Neither is traditional capture-and-detain-and-transport -style deportation.

Self-Deportation is the answer.

Not the "Self-Deportation Lite" that Romney tried to sell in 2012 (barriers to employment and licensing).

But "Self-Deportation Industrial Strength" - making it illegal for Illegals to do damned-near anything (employment, housing, banking, schools, medical care, wire-transfer, licensing, etc, etc, etc.), and establishing legal conditions so draconian that they fall all over themselves in a mad dash to the border, at their own expense, and without costing taxpayers a single dime in 'traditional' deportation operations.

But, as right as Jeb Bush is, in this narrow context...

He's also a gutless wonder, when it comes to Illegal Aliens, and he has a vested personal interest in catering to the Hispanic voting bloc, to give them whatever they want, and, therefore, he is not to be trusted with leadership in this area.

Not to mention Jeb's flip-flopping on such things as his choice of verbiage ("Anchor Babies") - demonstrating that ol' Jeb is a flip-flopper of the worst sort... blowing with the prevailing winds... and lacking the resolve to stand his ground, and do what is right for the Nation and its People.

Oh, well... even a broken clock is right twice a day... and this was Jeb's turn.

I believe a wall is part of the answer. We need a barrier to keep scumbags and contraband out. No law on earth will inhibit those people. I agree with the concept of making it legally impossible for illegals to do anything here, but no law will make it physically impossible. People will still violate the law no matter how draconian, and if we have another libtard regime that refuses to enforce laws, they're worthless. It needs to be a complete effort both legal and tangible.

I think Jeb is full of shit, and I think he would be the same sort of asshole who would weaken border security.

 

[Kondor3]

Jeb Bush is right.

Building a fence is not the answer.

Neither is traditional capture-and-detain-and-transport -style deportation.

Self-Deportation is the answer.

Not the "Self-Deportation Lite" that Romney tried to sell in 2012 (barriers to employment and licensing).

But "Self-Deportation Industrial Strength" - making it illegal for Illegals to do damned-near anything (employment, housing, banking, schools, medical care, wire-transfer, licensing, etc, etc, etc.), and establishing legal conditions so draconian that they fall all over themselves in a mad dash to the border, at their own expense, and without costing taxpayers a single dime in 'traditional' deportation operations.

But, as right as Jeb Bush is, in this narrow context...

He's also a gutless wonder, when it comes to Illegal Aliens, and he has a vested personal interest in catering to the Hispanic voting bloc, to give them whatever they want, and, therefore, he is not to be trusted with leadership in this area.

Not to mention Jeb's flip-flopping on such things as his choice of verbiage ("Anchor Babies") - demonstrating that ol' Jeb is a flip-flopper of the worst sort... blowing with the prevailing winds... and lacking the resolve to stand his ground, and do what is right for the Nation and its People.

Oh, well... even a broken clock is right twice a day... and this was Jeb's turn.

I believe a wall is part of the answer. We need a barrier to keep scumbags and contraband out. No law on earth will inhibit those people. I agree with the concept of making it legally impossible for illegals to do anything here, but no law will make it physically impossible. People will still violate the law no matter how draconian, and if we have another libtard regime that refuses to enforce laws, they're worthless. It needs to be a complete effort both legal and tangible.

I think Jeb is full of shit, and I think he would be the same sort of asshole who would weaken border security.

The trouble with a Wall is that we're talking about 1,954 - call it 2,000 - miles of shared border.

And it's not just the initial construction, of course, but perpetual staffing, maintenance, upgrades, etc. - therefore, the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) is gonna end-up with Grand Totals somewhere in the upper stratosphere, so, I'm not sure that is gonna work out so well.

If you can't get a job or housing or a car or go to school or get medical treatment or use a bank or currency exchange or wire money home, there's no point in coming here illegally.

Ditto for staying here.

Establishing draconian legal conditions for Illegals should take care of 95-99% of those who would otherwise come across.

We can handle the 1 - 5% in the old fashioned way - capture, detain, process and deport - once the numbers get back down to manageable levels.

I just don't think that building another Great Wall of China is going to pay-off well enough when other purely administrative means can be made to serve.

I also don't think that building another Great Wall of China is going to be worth it, for the 1-5% of "leakers" that we'd get, once we set up those more draconian policies.

Not enough bang for the buck.

Or so it seems, to this observer.

Maybe I'm wrong.

I used to believe differently, 5-10 years ago, but I confess that I changed my mind on the subject.

 

[rightwinger]

Cheaper and more effective solution

Make fewer jobs on our side of the border and more jobs on their side of the border

NAFTA?

More jobs in Mexico mean fewer streaming across our border to find work

 

[bedowin62]

Cheaper and more effective solution

Make fewer jobs on our side of the border and more jobs on their side of the border

NAFTA?

More jobs in Mexico mean fewer streaming across our border to find work

you mean like NAFTA had that effect?

lol

 

[Pete7469]

The trouble with a Wall is that we're talking about 1,954 - call it 2,000 - miles of shared border.

If you can't get a job or housing or a car or go to school or get medical treatment or use a bank or currency exchange or wire money home, there's no point in coming here illegally.

Establishing draconian legal conditions for Illegals should take care of 95-99% of those who would otherwise come across.

We can handle the 1 - 5% in the old fashion way - capture, detain, process and deport - once the numbers get back down to manageable levels.

I just don't think that building another Great Wall of China is going to pay-off well enough when other purely administrative means can be made to serve.

I also don't think that building another Great Wall of China is going to be worth it, for the 1-5% of "leakers" that we'd get, once we set up those more draconian policies.

Not enough bang for the buck.

Or so it seems, to this observer.

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's a problem to build what could essentially be a raised highway along the entire border. It would facilitate travel of border patrol and private enterprize as well as provide a barrier.

It's not really the people who are coming in to work that I'm worried about. I agree that needs to be addressed, but my primary concern is criminal smuggling and possible terrorist infiltration. Laws alone will not stop them.

I understand the massive project I'm proposing, but it could also double as an infrastructure project so that it has purpose beyond just being a wall.

 

[bendog]

Well I doubt seriously Jeb gets elected, but I'm sure the congress isn't gonna appropriate hundreds of billions to build a fence and deport 11 million people, so it's all pretty irrelevant.

 

[Kondor3]

Well I doubt seriously Jeb gets elected, but I'm sure the congress isn't gonna appropriate hundreds of billions to build a fence and deport 11 million people, so it's all pretty irrelevant.

True.

So we pass new and draconian laws regarding employment, housing, vehicles, finances, schooling, welfare, medical care, etc., directed against Illegals, to make them Self-Deport, quickly, at their own expense, without us spending a dime on actual deportation operations.

 

[bendog]

Well I doubt seriously Jeb gets elected, but I'm sure the congress isn't gonna appropriate hundreds of billions to build a fence and deport 11 million people, so it's all pretty irrelevant.

True.

So we pass new and draconian laws regarding employment, housing, vehicles, finances, schooling, welfare, medical care, etc., directed against Illegals, to make them Self-Deport, quickly, at their own expense, without us spending a dime on actual deportation operations.

Well, I've argued all along that we just set some number of guest workers we want, and issue that many permits. The employers of the illegal aliens could even "bid" for permits. Amend the law to permit expedited to any worker illegally working without a permit and fine the employer. The govt might actually raise some revenue for more INS agents.

 

[Pete7469]

Well I doubt seriously Jeb gets elected, but I'm sure the congress isn't gonna appropriate hundreds of billions to build a fence and deport 11 million people, so it's all pretty irrelevant.

Congress would suddenly balk at spending money?

If it was created as a transportation infrastucture project, not just a wall I don't think Americans would have any problem with that. I think it would be harder to get the draconian laws passed because the moonbats would be wailing and gnashing their teeth about "racism" and unless we had 60 real republicans in the senate (which excludes McLame, grahmanesty, and others) it's not going to get passed. They might go along with the barrier but they will demand amnesty in return.

 

[Kondor3]

Well I doubt seriously Jeb gets elected, but I'm sure the congress isn't gonna appropriate hundreds of billions to build a fence and deport 11 million people, so it's all pretty irrelevant.

True.

So we pass new and draconian laws regarding employment, housing, vehicles, finances, schooling, welfare, medical care, etc., directed against Illegals, to make them Self-Deport, quickly, at their own expense, without us spending a dime on actual deportation operations.

Well, I've argued all along that we just set some number of guest workers we want, and issue that many permits. The employers of the illegal aliens could even "bid" for permits. Amend the law to permit expedited to any worker illegally working without a permit and fine the employer. The govt might actually raise some revenue for more INS agents.

The work-permit and/or quota idea is a good one, to control future flow, but we also need to deal with those already here, and in a manner not designed to reward their trespass with a path to citizenship (a.k.a. Shamnesty).

Work permits are fine, but more is needed, both to rid ourselves of the present excess and to dis-incentivize future invaders, to prevent this from happening again.

It's that, or go the way of Europa-stan.

The choice is ours.

 

[bendog]

Well I doubt seriously Jeb gets elected, but I'm sure the congress isn't gonna appropriate hundreds of billions to build a fence and deport 11 million people, so it's all pretty irrelevant.

True.

So we pass new and draconian laws regarding employment, housing, vehicles, finances, schooling, welfare, medical care, etc., directed against Illegals, to make them Self-Deport, quickly, at their own expense, without us spending a dime on actual deportation operations.

Well, I've argued all along that we just set some number of guest workers we want, and issue that many permits. The employers of the illegal aliens could even "bid" for permits. Amend the law to permit expedited to any worker illegally working without a permit and fine the employer. The govt might actually raise some revenue for more INS agents.

The work-permit and/or quota idea is a good one, to control future flow, but we also need to deal with those already here, and in a manner not designed to reward their trespass with a path to citizenship (a.k.a. Shamnesty).

Work permits are fine, but more is needed, both to rid ourselves of the present excess and to dis-incentivize future invaders, to prevent this from happening again.

It's that, or go the way of Europa-stan.

The choice is ours.

We are not going to deport 11 million. The Kochs won't stand for it. Even Trump would feel the labor pinch.

 

[BluesLegend]

Bush wants to give the millions of illegals here amnesty and the vote and let millions more flood into the country. The establishment politicians currently fear American voters, they have lost control. The only way to get that control back is to flood the country with millions of poor people from other countries they can bribe with government hand outs, canceling out the votes of Americans who are fed up.

 

[johnwk]

Bush wants to give the millions of illegals here amnesty and the vote and let millions more flood into the country. The establishment politicians currently fear American voters, they have lost control. The only way to get that control back is to flood the country with millions of poor people from other countries they can bribe with government hand outs, canceling out the votes of Americans who are fed up.

A freaken-men! That is what these traitorous politicians like Jeb Bush are about!


JWK







To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance Crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.