Big mouth Natalie Maines is back at it again !

[DigitalDrifter]

Once Natalie spoke out is was like this loss of innocense and people became hardened towards them.

Which is pretty much what can happen when a person says anything about anything because everyone is going to have their own opinion about whatever the matter is should the matter mean enough to them.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. What I would like to know is if that girl still would have said what she said that night if she had been aware before saying it that she can't stop anyone from not liking what she had to say to the extent that they would wash their hands of her and the other two girls. Yeah they got several Grammy awards because of this whole situation, but at the end of the day, awards will never be what get the bills paid.

I doubt she would have spoken up had she known the size and significance of the fallout.

I believe she was already asked that, and contradicted you.

Actually we already know that, and the evidence is right here in this thread, on video ---- she came back to the same stage three years later ..... and repeated the line, word for word.

And I might add, that time the applause and cheers were far more raucous.

Know why?

Because she stood up for her principles and wasn't about to be browbeaten by political-PC fascist busybodies, that's why.
People like that. As well they should. Any time the voice of the people can put a finger in the eye of the authoritarians who try to suppress us ---- that's what we call a good thing.

​

Did the statement -- and more correctly the corporate massaging of the statement --- cost the band record sales and ticket sales? The numbers say yes. Did that same element win them new fans, new followers and an absolute ton of publicity? Again, the numbers report in the affirmative (see the video above). But that's all stuff that can be quantified in numbers; what can't be qualified -- or bought or sold like a commodity fetish -- is the boundless respect earned in so doing. There's no price tag for that and there are no unit numbers for it. Because not everything is about money; it's called integrity. And that's far deeper than dollars or unit sales.

First she stood up for Texas; when the System didn't like that she stood up for her Principles.
And that, the System cannot touch.

She stood up for Texas ? Lol ! The majority of Texans were in support of going into Iraq at the time she made her comments !

 

[Pogo]

If I'm so brilliant, how come you can't refute my points?

Guilty as charged.

Just don't make me wear wunna dem British wigs. You know, the "crime" being in London and all...

What points ? You have none.

Natalie spouted off, which in turn angered millions of Americans, the Chicks then lost a good deal of their fan base.
That's the story.

Oh, there is much more to the story than that. There is this wonderful story about putting friendship and loyalty before monetary gain, the courage of standing up for one's beliefs, the David and Goliath comparisons, the turtle and hare comparisons and the simple story of resilience in the face of disaster and crisis. All topped with a happy ending, which is the inspiration for the topic of them going on a tour this summer.
If the Chicks story is just one about making hundreds of millions of dollars for stuffing into banks, they lost big time, but if it is about more to life than those hundreds of millions, the Chicks are visions of success. They had to settle for tens of millions and integrity.

Again this is not a story of integrity. If so, then anyone who DOESN'T speak out uninvited has none.

It's not like someone was requiring Natalie and the Chicks to give an oath of allegiance.
People came to hear the Chicks perform, all's they needed to do was take the stage and perform their music.
Instead Natalie chose to take a side, and once you've done that the other side is going to push back.
In the Chicks case, they were viewed as these good old hometown girls who had lots of talent.
Once Natalie spoke out is was like this loss of innocense and people became hardened towards them.

On the fucking contrary. For the 19th time, the elephant in the room was the coming war. It was in the atmosphere before, during and after the concert. It was in the air when three million Londonders joined the rest of the world protesting the prospect a few weeks prior --- during which the Chicks were there, in London, in that atmosphere. So in a sense someone very much DID require Natalie Maines -- or somebody -- to take a stand, and that person was..... George W. Bush.

He required me to do the same thing when I was in Canada around the same time. He put all of us in that position-- anyone who traveled outside this country's closed corporate news Bubble into the real world. You know, the Bubble you bought and swallowed whole without questioning? Well the rest of the world, free of that Bubble, knew better.

Again for the 19th time, George W. Bush is ostentatiously identified with Texas --- and so are the Dixie Chicks. Therefore, sitting in London seven thousand miles away from Texas, clarifying that association was imperative.

And you'd sit here on the internets and have us believe that the audience was horrified to hear a message of affirmation and solidarity, which is why they responded with cheers and applause.

Life in Duh Bubble.

Now of course, in retrospect, even you Bubblers know and are forced to admit that Natalie Maines, and the Chicks, and the Londoners, and the rest of the world engaging in the largest antiwar protest in human history, and your fellow Americans who could see through the Bush Bullshit ----- were right.

In so doing she exposed the Bubble for what it is. And you can't stand that.

Tough.

Sheeesh.
I know Bush and the Chicks are both associated with Texas. I know the Chicks had a very receptive audience to their anti-Bush stance.
Problem is, back home in Texas at that time a sizable majority approved of the Iraq invasion, that's why the Chicks paid a price for Natalie's spew.
You can pretend it was otherwise, but you're simply in denial.

"Back home in Texas" is.... are you sitting down? IRRELEVANT.

Neither the concert ---- nor the comment --- nor the audience it was addressed to --- were anywhere near Texas.

Want to know where it was?
I've actually already posted the answer here. Apparently it shows up in an invisible font.

 

[Pogo]

Once Natalie spoke out is was like this loss of innocense and people became hardened towards them.

Which is pretty much what can happen when a person says anything about anything because everyone is going to have their own opinion about whatever the matter is should the matter mean enough to them.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. What I would like to know is if that girl still would have said what she said that night if she had been aware before saying it that she can't stop anyone from not liking what she had to say to the extent that they would wash their hands of her and the other two girls. Yeah they got several Grammy awards because of this whole situation, but at the end of the day, awards will never be what get the bills paid.

I doubt she would have spoken up had she known the size and significance of the fallout.

I believe she was already asked that, and contradicted you.

Actually we already know that, and the evidence is right here in this thread, on video ---- she came back to the same stage three years later ..... and repeated the line, word for word.

And I might add, that time the applause and cheers were far more raucous.

Know why?

Because she stood up for her principles and wasn't about to be browbeaten by political-PC fascist busybodies, that's why.
People like that. As well they should. Any time the voice of the people can put a finger in the eye of the authoritarians who try to suppress us ---- that's what we call a good thing.

​

Did the statement -- and more correctly the corporate massaging of the statement --- cost the band record sales and ticket sales? The numbers say yes. Did that same element win them new fans, new followers and an absolute ton of publicity? Again, the numbers report in the affirmative (see the video above). But that's all stuff that can be quantified in numbers; what can't be qualified -- or bought or sold like a commodity fetish -- is the boundless respect earned in so doing. There's no price tag for that and there are no unit numbers for it. Because not everything is about money; it's called integrity. And that's far deeper than dollars or unit sales.

First she stood up for Texas; when the System didn't like that she stood up for her Principles.
And that, the System cannot touch.

She stood up for Texas ? Lol ! The majority of Texans were in support of going into Iraq at the time she made her comments !

Again, IRRELEVANT.
If you're standing in front of an audience vehemently against what a guy from a faraway place called Texas is doing, and you're standing in front of them also from Texas, then until you disassociate from the other Texan, you've got something in common with the warmonger guy.

So she dispelled that association.

What "the rest of Texas" supported or didn't support is IRRELEVANT. They are not involved in either end. Because they're not present. Because the concert is seven thousand miles away.

Get it yet?

Oh shit I just gave you a hint where the concert was....

If she had said "Texas is ashamed the President is from Texas", she would have been presumptuously overstepping herself.

But she didn't.

She said "we". Meaning "The three of us".

You have yet to essplain to the class how the hell you get to dictate what other people can say in a faraway land about how they themselves feel.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

So how'd that work out for them then Pogo ?
You seem to be arguing against reality.

 

[SwimExpert]

apparently this idiot didn't learn much from the last time she pissed off half the country.

The hell is she thinking? She want another Grammy?

 

[DigitalDrifter]

You have yet to essplain to the class how the hell you get to dictate what other people can say in a faraway land about how they themselves feel.

I and others have explained it over and over many times.

Free speech leads to more free speech. The First Amendment gives us free speech, but doesn’t render us free from criticism.

None of us get to dictate squat. We do however get to dictate how WE feel, and millions did just that by expressing displeasure with the comments.

No one went to the Chicks beforehand and warned them to keep their traps shut.
All's we have control of is how we react afterwards.

 

[Pogo]

So how'd that work out for them then Pogo ?
You seem to be arguing against reality.

Seems to have worked out damned fine for them. Created a ton of publicity ... 60 Minutes, Oprah, this, that, a nice discourse on free speech versus McCarthyist blacklisting, a slew of new fans who either never heard of them before or hadn't paid much attention, notoriety for integrity, packed concert halls.. if political-PC fascists like yourself hadn't whined about this for the last thirteen years I would barely remember who they are.

Interesting study in mass psychology too, seeing as how not only can sheeple still be herded into mass McCarthyism, but even worse there are still partisan hacks like yourself who continue the whine, even after you and we and they and everybody in the world now knows they were right. Curious study in the power of self-delusion.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

I would say it was more like opposite of your scenario.
They were the darlings of country music, they were viewed like the girls next door, with that country sweet and innocent persona.
After the comments and the line they drew, people took sides and those that were on the other side, which was the majority at the time, especially fans of their genre, viewed them as loud mouths and traitors to the cause.

Had they simply concentrated on their music and careers, they would have put out more music than they actually have, they would have continued to be promoted across the board, and they would be some of the most loved in country music.

They are doing fine, they gained new fans, but lost more.

 

[Pogo]

I would say it was more like opposite of your scenario.
They were the darlings of country music, they were viewed like the girls next door, with that country sweet and innocent persona.
After the comments and the line they drew, people took sides and those that were on the other side, which was the majority at the time, especially fans of their genre, viewed them as loud mouths and traitors to the cause.

Had they simply concentrated on their music and careers, they would have put out more music than they actually have, they would have continued to be promoted across the board, and they would be some of the most loved in country music.

They are doing fine, they gained new fans, but lost more.

Ummm.... no, it's the other way round. You see --- they're not confined to the "country" label any more. That was part of the idea in bringing Maines in in the first place-- to eclipse that boundary. And that's liberating, because the corporate cesspool that "Country" has become is just an isolated and exclusive bubble.

Actually since they actually play their own instruments (well) and aren't just a rock band in cowboy hats, they had already eclipsed the "country" box. They had already been a bluegrass band. Before Maines even got there.

And again, as far as the comment itself, time and reflection shows they were on the right side the whole time. The rest of the world already knew that at the time, and now the whole world does. The cat's out of the bag. Anyone who bailed at that time ....... no longer has that basis. It's defunct.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Not to rehash the fucking Iraq War, but I'll remind you, at the time our government, and the British government, thought Saddam had WOMD.

Natalie was just another fucking lib war protester, and in this case it turned out the Iraq War was a colossal fuck up. That however is irrelevant in this case since what mattered here was the support going in to the conflict.
Natalie decided to be the pussy that she is and side with a bunch of dickwads in Britain who today are no doubt sitting on their stupid asses and allowing their country to be slowly eaten alive by fucking Islam and it's fanatical followers.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

Free speech leads to more free speech. The First Amendment gives us free speech, but doesn’t render us free from criticism.

Amen to this. Even if she had said that she was George W's biggest fan, the grief in return if there was any would have then come from those who hate him. Because everyone has a group of those who do not care about them, it will be that group of people who will give out grief towards whoever speaks highly about anyone.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[Pogo]

Free speech leads to more free speech. The First Amendment gives us free speech, but doesn’t render us free from criticism.

Amen to this. Even if she had said that she was George W's biggest fan, the grief in return if there was any would have then come from those who hate him. Because everyone has a group of those who do not care about them, it will be that group of people who will give out grief towards whoever speaks highly about anyone.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

The larger point is that those who went all the way across an ocean looking for something to be offended at --- were not the addressed party anyway. Those who were the addressed party had no problem with it.

That's why I asked the OP and others way backthread if they also eavesdrop on other people's phone calls, hack other people's e-mails and rummage through other people's trash. There's something psychologically perverse about all that.

 

[Pogo]

Not to rehash the fucking Iraq War, but I'll remind you, at the time our government, and the British government, thought Saddam had WOMD.

Or so they tried to sell us. Those of us you who were buying that song and dance.

By the way.... I have this bridge....

Natalie was just another fucking lib war protester, and in this case it turned out the Iraq War was a colossal fuck up. That however is irrelevant in this case since what mattered here was the support going in to the conflict.

Far from "irrelevant" -- it was the whole point. The whole point of both the comment and the buzz in the air it addressed, that having been manifest in, once again, the largest anti-war protest in human history, around the world. Even here, though you'd hardly know it from the same corporate media that threw a remote control hissy fit.

Natalie decided to be the pussy that she is and side with a bunch of dickwads in Britain who today are no doubt sitting on their stupid asses and allowing their country to be slowly eaten alive by fucking Islam and it's fanatical followers.

NOW you're on to the irrelevant. George Bush's offensive against Iraq had nothing to do with Islam (so he said) or terrorism or anything else relevant to anything except his personal One-up Daddy complex. And Natalie Maines, and the Brits, and the rest of the world, knew that.

Now this vocabulary -- define "pussy" number one. And number two, the third person neuter pronoun is its --- not "it is".
You ain't the most observant knife in the drawer are ya?

Want that bridge? Half price for you.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

Free speech leads to more free speech. The First Amendment gives us free speech, but doesn’t render us free from criticism.

Amen to this. Even if she had said that she was George W's biggest fan, the grief in return if there was any would have then come from those who hate him. Because everyone has a group of those who do not care about them, it will be that group of people who will give out grief towards whoever speaks highly about anyone.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

The larger point is that those who went all the way across an ocean looking for something to be offended at --- were not the addressed party anyway. Those who were the addressed party had no problem with it.

That's why I asked the OP and others way backthread if they also eavesdrop on other people's phone calls, hack other people's e-mails and rummage through other people's trash. There's something psychologically perverse about all that.

Of course those who were being addressed had no problem with what she was saying because she wasn't trashing something that had anything to do with them.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. Now if she had been trashing them people instead, it would have been right to their faces since they were the ones who were right there in front of her. Then we would probably be having a different conversation about the girls now. One that would probably be a whole lot funnier.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Free speech leads to more free speech. The First Amendment gives us free speech, but doesn’t render us free from criticism.

Amen to this. Even if she had said that she was George W's biggest fan, the grief in return if there was any would have then come from those who hate him. Because everyone has a group of those who do not care about them, it will be that group of people who will give out grief towards whoever speaks highly about anyone.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

Had someone like Liz Phair got up on stage in 2003 and announced that they (her and the band) were proud patriots and proud of President Bush, she would have lost most of her indy and alternative music fans, and would have been denounced big time by those fans.


That's pretty much what happened to Natalie and the Chicks.
They picked the wrong time to announce that they were liberals.

 

[Pogo]

Free speech leads to more free speech. The First Amendment gives us free speech, but doesn’t render us free from criticism.

Amen to this. Even if she had said that she was George W's biggest fan, the grief in return if there was any would have then come from those who hate him. Because everyone has a group of those who do not care about them, it will be that group of people who will give out grief towards whoever speaks highly about anyone.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

Had someone like Liz Phair got up on stage in 2003 and announced that they (her and the band) were proud patriots and proud of President Bush, she would have lost most of her indy and alternative music fans, and would have been denounced big time by those fans.


That's pretty much what happened to Natalie and the Chicks.
They picked the wrong time to announce that they were liberals.

Speculation fallacy fails.

And not a workable one anyway since the corporate conglomeration selling that war would have had no problem with such a sentiment. And that's the only entity that has the power to pull shit like --- firing DJs who play the music and planting biased stories in the TV, radio and print media they.... wait for it..

---- ALSO OWN.

--- which demonstrates perfectly why such media consolidation is anti-democracy and fatally plutocratic. And this of course is the entity you've been shilling for throughout this thread. Which is why I labeled you and your ilk "fascists".

Damn son. You must really want that bridge. I think my price just went up.

 

[Pogo]

Of course those who were being addressed had no problem with what she was saying because she wasn't trashing something that had anyhing to do with them.

War affects everybody, Neville Chamberlain.

And Iraq is a lot closer to England than to the US.

DiggyDriftwood certainly thinks it's relevant to Britain. Check out his post 390.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ What I was saying there is that she was not trashing the country that she was in when she said what she had to say.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[Pogo]

^^^ What I was saying there is that she was not trashing the country that she was in when she said what she had to say.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

No of course she wasn't. In fact she was reassuring them that they, just because they're from Texas, are not the enemy. A positive statement of solidarity and sympathy. Simple as that.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ Still those who did not like what she had the right to say had the right to let it be known that they did not like what she had the right to say.

God bless you always!!!

Holly