Believing In A God Is Evil

[Damaged Eagle]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

Prove that a god does not exist. That is every bit as impossible as proving that a god does exist.

Speak for yourself.

My proof of God's existence lies all around me.

And which god is that. Krishna, Odin, Zeus, Allah...? Can you provide proof as to which god provided whatever evidence all around you.

Since you appear to think that God needs some sort of name other than God.....

.....I've always been kinda' partial to Crom if that's what you want to call God.,,,,,

.....Otherwise you can just settle for... God.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Tuatara]

I haven't changed the topic at all since I've started posting in this thread, I'm addressing the OP. The originator of this thread and yourself are the ones who have become sidetracked into an off topic area. As for the scientific aspects that man has observed about the universe I'll take for granted that some 'theories' have the glimmering of truth. However since people, such as yourself, appear to be convinced that your alter of scientific knowledge denies the existence of God I've posed a question that you've failed to answer. Therefore I must be correct with saying that approximately 15 billion years ago a miracle occurred and all the wonders that are God were created.

You quoted my post which was about evolution and you asked a question about abiogenesis so yes you did change the topic. If you believe that the thread is being sidetracked why do you continue to respond to the hijacked threads and topics? Science has no evaluation on god since god is not detectable by any testable means. How did I fail to answer. You asked me about the creation of the universe. I said I don't know but that I see the big bang as the best guess. How is that not answering? How can you be correct by assuming god was responsible for the creation of the universe?

 

[Tuatara]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

Prove that a god does not exist. That is every bit as impossible as proving that a god does exist.

Speak for yourself.

My proof of God's existence lies all around me.

And which god is that. Krishna, Odin, Zeus, Allah...? Can you provide proof as to which god provided whatever evidence all around you.

Since you appear to think that God needs some sort of name other than God.....

.....I've always been kinda' partial to Crom if that's what you want to call God.,,,,,

.....Otherwise you can just settle for... God.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Are you aware that there are many described gods throughout history and throughout cultures? All these gods were as real to their believers as yours is to you. I know you knew exactly what I meant in my question which you do not have an answer for, which is why you have deflected it.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

I haven't changed the topic at all since I've started posting in this thread, I'm addressing the OP. The originator of this thread and yourself are the ones who have become sidetracked into an off topic area. As for the scientific aspects that man has observed about the universe I'll take for granted that some 'theories' have the glimmering of truth. However since people, such as yourself, appear to be convinced that your alter of scientific knowledge denies the existence of God I've posed a question that you've failed to answer. Therefore I must be correct with saying that approximately 15 billion years ago a miracle occurred and all the wonders that are God were created.

You quoted my post which was about evolution and you asked a question about abiogenesis so yes you did change the topic. If you believe that the thread is being sidetracked why do you continue to respond to the hijacked threads and topics?

To put the thread back on track.

Science has no evaluation on god since god is not detectable by any testable means. How did I fail to answer. You asked me about the creation of the universe. I said I don't know but that I see the big bang as the best guess. How is that not answering? How can you be correct by assuming god was responsible for the creation of the universe?

Because my beliefs encompass science as a means of understanding God.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Damaged Eagle]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

Prove that a god does not exist. That is every bit as impossible as proving that a god does exist.

Speak for yourself.

My proof of God's existence lies all around me.

And which god is that. Krishna, Odin, Zeus, Allah...? Can you provide proof as to which god provided whatever evidence all around you.

Since you appear to think that God needs some sort of name other than God.....

.....I've always been kinda' partial to Crom if that's what you want to call God.,,,,,

.....Otherwise you can just settle for... God.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Are you aware that there are many described gods throughout history and throughout cultures? All these gods were as real to their believers as yours is to you. I know you knew exactly what I meant in my question which you do not have an answer for, which is why you have deflected it.

I didn't deflect...

...Perhaps you've asked the wrong question because you haven't been paying attention...

...Tell you what I'll do. I'll pull a thread forward in this Religious section to help you.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[S.J.]

You demanded proof of something that thousands of educated people have been working on for over a hundred years.

You're the one who says it's indisputable, I'm just saying you need to provide proof if it's indisputable and you have failed to do that.

You want your "evidence" to be summarized to a single paragraph.

I didn't say "a single paragraph", I said I'm not about to sit through 15 propaganda videos trying to convince people of a theory that has been shot full of holes many times. As for science, the first rule is to remain open to ALL possibilities, so it's pretty obvious that YOU'RE the one with zero concept of basic science. You're close minded and intolerant of anything that varies from your own arrogant beliefs.

 

[Tuatara]

You're the one who says it's indisputable, I'm just saying you need to provide proof if it's indisputable and you have failed to do that.

I provided proof. Proof that you are unwilling to review or read.

I didn't say "a single paragraph", I said I'm not about to sit through 15 propaganda videos trying to convince people of a theory that has been shot full of holes many times. As for science, the first rule is to remain open to ALL possibilities, so it's pretty obvious that YOU'RE the one with zero concept of basic science. You're close minded and intolerant of anything that varies from your own arrogant beliefs.

You said brief and anyone can claim anything is propaganda yet you need to provide evidence that it is propaganda and how can you do either if you haven't watched it. You are copping out because science goes beyond your scope. the first rule of science is not to remain open on all possibilities. That's like someone claiming tooth decay is caused by listening to the Rolling Stones and when they are criticized they tell their critics "As for science, the first rule is to remain open to ALL possibilities"

Science should be questioned, disputed, evaluated and peer tested over and over again... with science.

 

[S.J.]

I provided proof. Proof that you are unwilling to review or read.

If it was proof it wouldn't still be called a theory, stupid.

you need to provide evidence that it is propaganda and how can you do either if you haven't watched it.

I've seen that shit a thousand times already. You think you're the only person who's ever tried to sell this theory?

Science should be questioned, disputed, evaluated and peer tested over and over again... with science.

And after 100 years you still have no proof. If you had to prove evolution in a court of law you would lose the case.

 

[IsaacNewton]

A belief in a god is not evil. Some people have done evil (bad) things because of a belief in a god but let's not paint all with the same stroke.


PS. Sorry SJ but evolution is true. Don't be one of the last to deny it. You'll end up looking like those flat-earthers.

Found the missing link yet?

You live in the 1960s? Many transitory species have been found.
Jesus even a 5 second web search will provide pages of them.

 

[September]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

There is no such thing as objective morality. Lying and fraud are not "wrong" or "evil" except in the minds of those who deem it so subjectively.​

 

[LittleNipper]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

A belief in a god is not evil. Some people have done evil (bad) things because of a belief in a god but let's not paint all with the same stroke.


PS. Sorry SJ but evolution is true. Don't be one of the last to deny it. You'll end up looking like those flat-earthers.

Found the missing link yet?

You live in the 1960s? Many transitory species have been found.
Jesus even a 5 second web search will provide pages of them.

Prove that a god does not exist. That is every bit as impossible as proving that a god does exist.

Speak for yourself.

My proof of God's existence lies all around me.

And which god is that. Krishna, Odin, Zeus, Allah...? Can you provide proof as to which god provided whatever evidence all around you.

Since you appear to think that God needs some sort of name other than God.....

.....I've always been kinda' partial to Crom if that's what you want to call God.,,,,,

.....Otherwise you can just settle for... God.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Are you aware that there are many described gods throughout history and throughout cultures? All these gods were as real to their believers as yours is to you. I know you knew exactly what I meant in my question which you do not have an answer for, which is why you have deflected it.

There are fossils found of a wide variety of animals that once existed. There is no proof that one fossil is either a direct or indirect descendent/ascendant of another unless it looks like one and the same. Conjecture is still conjecture. The DNA of a tyrannosaurus has not been linked directly or indirectly to any creature living today.

And a wooden stature carved by a man doesn't compare to the Lord Jesus Christ. And this is why Christ is still debated today and not Zeus. Sure there are still those that worship statuary, but such minds are limited to what they see and are able to fabricate. And any scientist who cannot see GOD through the nature GOD so wonderfully established, is just as limited as a native worshiping the sun, moon or a piece of bone.

 

[HUGGY]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

Prove that a god does not exist. That is every bit as impossible as proving that a god does exist.

A classic false equivalency. Unless the science can find every last grain of sand to fill in the "missing link" evolution is false or at best a "theory". Meanwhile you don't have to come up with a single spec of factual proof of god or the fantastic fantasies of religion because theories require no proof.

The elephant in the room is of course that there are mountains of factual evidence supporting evolution. If evolution is a fact then of course there can be no god as described by all of the major religions.

There is nary a single fact supporting the existence of a god.

No unbiased intelligent human being can look at the evidence for evolution and conclude it is less likely than the stories cooked up in the religions describing god.

So WHO is lying? It is obvious. I still maintain that lying is evil.

 

[HUGGY]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

There is no such thing as objective morality. Lying and fraud are not "wrong" or "evil" except in the minds of those who deem it so subjectively.​

A mind that can rationalize a god can rationalize anything including your last post.

 

[LittleNipper]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

There is no such thing as objective morality. Lying and fraud are not "wrong" or "evil" except in the minds of those who deem it so subjectively.​

A mind that can rationalize a god can rationalize anything including your last post.

A mind that can rationalize GOD out of existence can rationalize his behavior towards others and place his desires above that of everyone else without sympathy.

 

[LittleNipper]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

Prove that a god does not exist. That is every bit as impossible as proving that a god does exist.

A classic false equivalency. Unless the science can find every last grain of sand to fill in the "missing link" evolution is false or at best a "theory". Meanwhile you don't have to come up with a single spec of factual proof of god or the fantastic fantasies of religion because theories require no proof.

The elephant in the room is of course that there are mountains of factual evidence supporting evolution. If evolution is a fact then of course there can be no god as described by all of the major religions.

There is nary a single fact supporting the existence of a god.

No unbiased intelligent human being can look at the evidence for evolution and conclude it is less likely than the stories cooked up in the religions describing god.

So WHO is lying? It is obvious. I still maintain that lying is evil.

Christians are not irrational people in the general sense of the term. Christians have founded schools, colleges, and universities. Christians have established hospitals, elderly care facilities, and orphanages. Christians have been scientists, authors, teachers, administrators, Presidents, etc.... Christians been outspoken against slavery, drinking, drugs, and prostitution. Christians have in general been a consistent voice of peaceful reasoning.

Christians firmly believe that without GOD there can be no real freedom ---- only ruling control of the masses. Christians all agree that without a Creator there is no logical reason why man exists and man has little if anything to contribute aside from consuming, sleeping, sex and death. As one ages one is hit with the realization that without GOD his life really counts for nothing in the wide scheme of things. What seems important today is often lost on tomorrow, and yet the revelations surrounding human behavior, desires, and needs found in the Bible are just as relevant today as they were thousands of years ago ---- while Elvis, the Beatles, and homosexuality all become vastly insignificant when one is on his deathbed.

 

[RedTeamTex]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

Whoa nelly, pard! Check your sentential logic!

T never equals F (necessary tautology for logical parsing.)

If we assume
wrong=evil
lying is wrong
lying is evil

ok I can work with the semantics here for the sake of discussion. So far so good.


However,

Point 1:
Your semantic "untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts." has nothing to do with logic--or the nature of Truth. The Truth of the matter Is that an illogical argument with false premises can still end in a true conclusion. (It's just true for some other unknown reason having nothing to do with the unsound argument. e.g. "If the moon is made of cheese, then we're on Mars. If we're on Mars, then the sky is blue. The moon is made of pasta. Therefore: the sky is blue." Completely invalid argument with false assumptions. True conclusion. The fact science has no evidentiary chain of "god" (assuming we define "god" as something imaginable and therefore among the set of 'logical possibilities') has no logical bearing on its potential existence of being either True or False. Take another example: our evidence of alien life in the Andromeda galaxy is utterly unsupported. Does this make the assertion untrue? By your definition of "untrue" we would Automatically Define it so.

It is absurd to define Truth itself by the scope of human science. I prefer to define human science as the pursuit of truth of the unknown. I bet after you think about it, you do too.

Point 2:
You seem to be defining being mistaken in your belief and honestly promoting your belief is lying. "the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue."

Well of course that's silly. With your semantic, only the omniscient could be morally innocent. Back here at the ranch: Lying is the intentional espousing an untrue fact. I might concede positivistic people on either side of the argument could afford to be more humble and agnostic. But in this case ardant atheists have become just as 'evil' as deists.

Point 3:
"I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil."

Putting your erroneous and illogical working definition of "untruth" aside, you seem to rely on the assumption Science can resolve the philosophical problem of First Cause. (An argument I'd like to see!) I'm not among those that say assertion of a god answers that problem...we can just as easily ask "what created god?" That's what makes the Problem of First Cause a good Problem.

Yet if Einstein says it's perfectly reasonable to believe in 10 dimensions or more based on evidence at hand and some math, I think science is a good tool for sculpting our own awe and wonder of the cosmos--and humility of acknowledging we don't know enough to have the first clue what all is in it...much less the audacity to say we can prove a negative.

***

Now, however since you've asserted that 'untruth is the transmission of a belief unsupported by fact' and doing so is evil...I have to point out you have argued that your original post was an act of evil!

I however submit that you were self-honest at the time and therefore not guilty of fraud. Having read my share of Gandhi, I think he'd say God cuts you the same slack.

 

[westwall]

If we can agree that lying is wrong and spreading a lie is wrong and therefore evil. Then we must conclude that believing in god and preaching the belief in god is wrong and clearly evil.

There are only truths and untruths. Truths have factual evidence to make truth self evident. Untruths are any variety of statements, beliefs or information passed on from one person to any other not supported by facts.

Religious people want to believe what they say is true. That does not relieve them of the consequences of telling or believing a lie if what they believe turns out to be untrue.

These people want to believe that they are good. Wanting to believe what you think and do just isn't good enough. Those ISIS Muslims believe they are doing good when they cut off the heads of non believers. They believe just as strongly as any Christian believes what they choose to believe.

I submit that those that want so dearly to believe in a god get busy and prove this or any god's factual existence is true or admit they have been lying to themselves and promoting a lie to others and in doing so continuing to promote a giant fraud on society. Fraud is wrong therefore evil.

Prove that a god does not exist. That is every bit as impossible as proving that a god does exist.

A classic false equivalency. Unless the science can find every last grain of sand to fill in the "missing link" evolution is false or at best a "theory". Meanwhile you don't have to come up with a single spec of factual proof of god or the fantastic fantasies of religion because theories require no proof.

The elephant in the room is of course that there are mountains of factual evidence supporting evolution. If evolution is a fact then of course there can be no god as described by all of the major religions.

There is nary a single fact supporting the existence of a god.

No unbiased intelligent human being can look at the evidence for evolution and conclude it is less likely than the stories cooked up in the religions describing god.

So WHO is lying? It is obvious. I still maintain that lying is evil.

No, it's not. There is no more evidence for the existence of a God than there is for one not existing. Those who claim false equivalence simply are incapable of admitting that fact.

 

[peach174]

Death and Pain are natural not bad.

 

[S.J.]

God is a spirit and operates in a different dimension with different properties. Providing physical proof of something in the spirit world can't be done, but those who seek to find God, can. You can't prove he's there but you know he is because he makes himself known in a spiritual way. Atheists will never be aware of his existence because they reject him, their minds are closed. Why would he bother with them? I don't try to convince atheists and evolutionists because I don't feel the need to. If it's someone I care about (like a friend or family member) I will make an effort, but an arrogant prick like the atheists on this forum? Nah. I do, however, like to watch them get all frustrated when they try to prove their ridiculous theory of evolution and fail, especially when it comes to the common ancestor crap. That's downright laughable.

 

[Avatar4321]

God is real. So how can telling the truth about that be evil and lying about that be good?