Bay News 9 Fibs, Says Social Security Is Not A Ponzi Scheme

[Disir]

Where do you people get these stupid fucking ideas?

It is not stupid ideas it is a fact.
LBJ was running an expensive war in South East Asia while also attempting to launch social engineering through programs which began with his 'Great Society'. Lacking the means to pay for both, he had the Social Security Trust Funds moved into the general fund. As these funds were removed they were replaced with an IOU and it continues to this very day.

Q1. Which political party took Social Security from the independent trust fund and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?

A1: There has never been any change in the way the Social Security program is financed or the way that Social Security payroll taxes are used by the federal government. The Social Security Trust Fund was created in 1939 as part of the Amendments enacted in that year. From its inception, the Trust Fund has always worked the same way. The Social Security Trust Fund has never been "put into the general fund of the government."
Most likely this question comes from a confusion between the financing of the Social Security program and the way the Social Security Trust Fund is treated in federal budget accounting. Starting in 1969 (due to action by the Johnson Administration in 1968) the transactions to the Trust Fund were included in what is known as the "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget. This is sometimes described by saying that the Social Security Trust Funds are "on-budget." This budget treatment of the Social Security Trust Fund continued until 1990 when the Trust Funds were again taken "off-budget." This means only that they are shown as a separate account in the federal budget. But whether the Trust Funds are "on-budget" or "off-budget" is primarily a question of accounting practices--it has no effect on the actual operations of the Trust Fund itself.
Social Security History

The "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget.
That means they used the Social Security funds for other government programs and it included the funding for the Viet Nam War. After the war it was continually used for other government programs. Before that, the SSI funds was not included a unified budget and congress was not able to use the funds for anything other than just the Social Security program.


During the past 25 years, five presidents, from President Johnson to President Obama and the members of Congress, have participated in the great Social Security scam. All Social Security contributions made by working Americans, except the amount which was needed to pay current retirement benefits, has been funneled into the general fund and used for non-Social Security purposes.
Some like to say that the government just “borrowed” the money during the time period when it was not needed to pay benefits. But borrowing implies repayment, and no provisions for repayment have been made.
The government did not enact future tax increases that would automatically kick in when the Social Security money was needed. Neither did they enact legislation that would end other spending programs once the Social Security money was needed so the money could be transferred to the trust fund.
The government spent the Social Security money, pure and simple, without making any provisions for future repayments. The IOUs in the trust fund are not marketable, and they could not be sold to anyone even for a penny on the dollar.
The Social Security trustees confirmed the worthlessness of the IOUs in the 2009 Social Security Trustees Report with the following words:
“Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.”
In order for Social Security to pay full benefits after 2016, it will be necessary for the government to begin repaying the money it has spent on other things. This will mean increased taxes and/or additional borrowing.
Neither of these is politically popular, and there is no assurance that future politicians will be willing to raise taxes to pay for the irresponsible behavior of past politicians. If the money is not repaid in full, with interest, it will have been stolen by the government from working Americans who paid into the fund.

Read it for yourself in the report
Table of Contents

Since Social Security would be fully funded until at least 2037 if the government had not used the money for other things, the only reason that politicians are advocating cuts in Social Security benefits is the fact that the government does not have the money with which to pay its debt to Social Security.
Given the fact that Section 13301 of the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 made it a violation of federal law to use Social Security revenue for non-Social Security purposes, it is hard to justify using the word “borrow” to refer to any of the Social Security money spent after 1990, even if it is eventually paid back.
It was stolen from the American workers pure and simple by a political accounting tactic.

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

Two: Here is your confusion=
In the early 1980s the Social Security Trust Funds had developed short-term cash flow problems, as a result of the adverse performance of the economy during the "stagflation" of the 1970s. As a stop-gap measure, Congress passed legislation in 1981 to permit inter-fund borrowing among the three Trust Funds (the Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund; the Disability Trust Fund; and the Medicare Trust Fund). This authority was to lapse at the end of 1982. However, the 1983 Amendments extended the inter-fund borrowing authority to the end of 1987. Under the law as amended, all loans would have to be repaid by the end of 1989.

The inter-fund loans were required to be repaid with an amount of interest equal to that which the loaning fund would have earned had it had use of the money during this time. In other words, the borrowing fund was required to make the loaning fund whole at the end of the process.

This authority was used twice, once in November 1982 and once in December 1982. The total amount borrowed was $17.5 billion. The Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund borrowed the money-$5.1 billion from the Disability Trust Fund and $12.4 billion from the Medicare Trust Fund. Repayment began in 1985 and the debt to the Medicare Trust Fund was paid off by January 1986 and the debt to the Disability Trust Fund was liquidated in April 1986.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

This is from 1983-Note that there are four funds listed here and why,
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

Ok?
OK.

Payroll taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Social Security taxes provide benefits for retired workers, the disabled, and the dependents of both. The Medicare tax is used to provide medical benefits for certain individuals when they reach age 65. Workers, retired workers, and the spouses of both are eligible to receive Medicare benefits upon reaching age 65. Federal income taxes are used to provide for national programs such as national defense; veterans and foreign affairs; social programs; physical, human, and community development; law enforcement; and interest on the national debt.
Understanding Taxes - Module 1 Payroll Taxes and Federal Income Tax Withholding

Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government.
There are two general types of such securities:

1. special issues—securities available only to the trust funds; and
2. public issues—securities available to the public (marketable securities).

Today all securities held by the trust funds are special issues, but the funds have held public issues in the past.
Special issue types and properties
There are two types of special issues: short-term certificates of indebtedness and long-term bonds.

• The certificates of indebtedness are issued on a daily basis for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue.
• Special-issue bonds are normally acquired only when special issues of either type mature on June 30. The bonds have maturities ranging from one to fifteen years.

The above properties of special issue securities are summarized in the following table.

Type of special issue	Investment frequency	Maturity
Certificates of indebtedness	Daily	Next June 30
Bonds	June 30	1 to 15 years

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Special issue redemption rules
When special issues need to be redeemed prior to maturity, the securities are redeemed in order of

1. Earliest maturity date;
2. Lowest interest rate for securities with the same maturity date.

Special-issue securities Social Security trust funds

Thank you for clearly demonstrating how Social Security can easily be made solvent and in no way resembles a ponzi scheme.

Hey-lift the cap. Don't feed people half truths.

 

[johnwk]

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

And I don't think you understand there is no money in a Social Security Trust Fund. What is in the “Trust Fund” are Treasury Notes, and Treasury Notes are another swindling operation used to steal real material wealth created by the sweat of hard working wage earners.

An “investor” who purchases a few hundred thousand dollars in T Bills is rewarded by a tax levied on working people’s earned wages to pay principle and interest to the "investor" which is paid in Federal Reserve Notes taxed away from working people's earned wages.

In fact, T Bills are a clever slide of hand scheme cooked up by Wall Street Bankers that are used in conjunction with Federal Reserve Notes which are a thieving paper money scheme that was specifically intended to be forbidden by our Founders during the framing of our Constitution, when they forbid notes of any kind to be made a “legal tender”.

Federal Reserve Notes are used by a corrupted banking system and government to swindle and steal real material wealth which is created by our nation’s manufactures, businesses and labor.

JWK

"Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none have been more effectual than that which deludes them with paper money. This is the most effectual of inventions to fertilize the rich man's field by the sweat of the poor man's brow."_____ Daniel Webster.

 

[peach174]

The whole idea of the SS Trust Fund was to really create a "slush fund" for corrupt politicians to rob.


JWK



"Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none have been more effectual than that which deludes them with paper money. This is the most effectual of inventions to fertilize the rich man's field by the sweat of the poor man's brow."_____ Daniel Webster.

Where do you people get these stupid fucking ideas?

It is not stupid ideas it is a fact.
LBJ was running an expensive war in South East Asia while also attempting to launch social engineering through programs which began with his 'Great Society'. Lacking the means to pay for both, he had the Social Security Trust Funds moved into the general fund. As these funds were removed they were replaced with an IOU and it continues to this very day.

Q1. Which political party took Social Security from the independent trust fund and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?

A1: There has never been any change in the way the Social Security program is financed or the way that Social Security payroll taxes are used by the federal government. The Social Security Trust Fund was created in 1939 as part of the Amendments enacted in that year. From its inception, the Trust Fund has always worked the same way. The Social Security Trust Fund has never been "put into the general fund of the government."
Most likely this question comes from a confusion between the financing of the Social Security program and the way the Social Security Trust Fund is treated in federal budget accounting. Starting in 1969 (due to action by the Johnson Administration in 1968) the transactions to the Trust Fund were included in what is known as the "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget. This is sometimes described by saying that the Social Security Trust Funds are "on-budget." This budget treatment of the Social Security Trust Fund continued until 1990 when the Trust Funds were again taken "off-budget." This means only that they are shown as a separate account in the federal budget. But whether the Trust Funds are "on-budget" or "off-budget" is primarily a question of accounting practices--it has no effect on the actual operations of the Trust Fund itself.
Social Security History

The "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget.
That means they used the Social Security funds for other government programs and it included the funding for the Viet Nam War. After the war it was continually used for other government programs. Before that, the SSI funds was not included a unified budget and congress was not able to use the funds for anything other than just the Social Security program.


During the past 25 years, five presidents, from President Johnson to President Obama and the members of Congress, have participated in the great Social Security scam. All Social Security contributions made by working Americans, except the amount which was needed to pay current retirement benefits, has been funneled into the general fund and used for non-Social Security purposes.
Some like to say that the government just “borrowed” the money during the time period when it was not needed to pay benefits. But borrowing implies repayment, and no provisions for repayment have been made.
The government did not enact future tax increases that would automatically kick in when the Social Security money was needed. Neither did they enact legislation that would end other spending programs once the Social Security money was needed so the money could be transferred to the trust fund.
The government spent the Social Security money, pure and simple, without making any provisions for future repayments. The IOUs in the trust fund are not marketable, and they could not be sold to anyone even for a penny on the dollar.
The Social Security trustees confirmed the worthlessness of the IOUs in the 2009 Social Security Trustees Report with the following words:
“Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.”
In order for Social Security to pay full benefits after 2016, it will be necessary for the government to begin repaying the money it has spent on other things. This will mean increased taxes and/or additional borrowing.
Neither of these is politically popular, and there is no assurance that future politicians will be willing to raise taxes to pay for the irresponsible behavior of past politicians. If the money is not repaid in full, with interest, it will have been stolen by the government from working Americans who paid into the fund.

Read it for yourself in the report
Table of Contents

Since Social Security would be fully funded until at least 2037 if the government had not used the money for other things, the only reason that politicians are advocating cuts in Social Security benefits is the fact that the government does not have the money with which to pay its debt to Social Security.
Given the fact that Section 13301 of the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 made it a violation of federal law to use Social Security revenue for non-Social Security purposes, it is hard to justify using the word “borrow” to refer to any of the Social Security money spent after 1990, even if it is eventually paid back.
It was stolen from the American workers pure and simple by a political accounting tactic.

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

Two: Here is your confusion=
In the early 1980s the Social Security Trust Funds had developed short-term cash flow problems, as a result of the adverse performance of the economy during the "stagflation" of the 1970s. As a stop-gap measure, Congress passed legislation in 1981 to permit inter-fund borrowing among the three Trust Funds (the Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund; the Disability Trust Fund; and the Medicare Trust Fund). This authority was to lapse at the end of 1982. However, the 1983 Amendments extended the inter-fund borrowing authority to the end of 1987. Under the law as amended, all loans would have to be repaid by the end of 1989.

The inter-fund loans were required to be repaid with an amount of interest equal to that which the loaning fund would have earned had it had use of the money during this time. In other words, the borrowing fund was required to make the loaning fund whole at the end of the process.

This authority was used twice, once in November 1982 and once in December 1982. The total amount borrowed was $17.5 billion. The Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund borrowed the money-$5.1 billion from the Disability Trust Fund and $12.4 billion from the Medicare Trust Fund. Repayment began in 1985 and the debt to the Medicare Trust Fund was paid off by January 1986 and the debt to the Disability Trust Fund was liquidated in April 1986.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

This is from 1983-Note that there are four funds listed here and why,
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

Ok?
OK.

Payroll taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Social Security taxes provide benefits for retired workers, the disabled, and the dependents of both. The Medicare tax is used to provide medical benefits for certain individuals when they reach age 65. Workers, retired workers, and the spouses of both are eligible to receive Medicare benefits upon reaching age 65. Federal income taxes are used to provide for national programs such as national defense; veterans and foreign affairs; social programs; physical, human, and community development; law enforcement; and interest on the national debt.
Understanding Taxes - Module 1 Payroll Taxes and Federal Income Tax Withholding

Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government.
There are two general types of such securities:

1. special issues—securities available only to the trust funds; and
2. public issues—securities available to the public (marketable securities).

Today all securities held by the trust funds are special issues, but the funds have held public issues in the past.
Special issue types and properties
There are two types of special issues: short-term certificates of indebtedness and long-term bonds.

• The certificates of indebtedness are issued on a daily basis for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue.
• Special-issue bonds are normally acquired only when special issues of either type mature on June 30. The bonds have maturities ranging from one to fifteen years.

The above properties of special issue securities are summarized in the following table.

Type of special issue	Investment frequency	Maturity
Certificates of indebtedness	Daily	Next June 30
Bonds	June 30	1 to 15 years

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Special issue redemption rules
When special issues need to be redeemed prior to maturity, the securities are redeemed in order of

1. Earliest maturity date;
2. Lowest interest rate for securities with the same maturity date.

Special-issue securities Social Security trust funds

From the Social Security's web site
Social Security History
The law was changed to stop the use of the Trust Funds for any function in the unified budget, including calculations of the deficit. One sub-part of OBRA 1990 was called the Budget Enforcement Act (BEA), and it was this sub-part that specified this change in the law.

Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (OBRA) of 1990
Bill Text - 101st Congress 1989-1990 - THOMAS Library of Congress
EXCLUSION OF SOCIAL SECURITY FROM ALL BUDGETS-

• 
  Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the receipts and disbursements of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund shall not be counted as new budget authority, outlays, receipts, or deficit or surplus for purposes of--

• • 
    (1) the budget of the United States Government as submitted by the President,

• • 
    (2) the congressional budget, or

• • 
    (3) the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985.

• 
  (b) EXCLUSION OF SOCIAL SECURITY FROM CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET- Section 301(a) of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974 is amended by adding at the end the following: `The concurrent resolution shall not include the outlays and revenue totals of the old age, survivors, and disability insurance program established under title II of the Social Security Act or the related provisions of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 in the surplus or deficit totals required by this subsection or in any other surplus or deficit totals required by this title.'.

 

[bripat9643]

Q1. Which political party took Social Security from the independent trust fund and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?

A1: There has never been any change in the way the Social Security program is financed or the way that Social Security payroll taxes are used by the federal government. The Social Security Trust Fund was created in 1939 as part of the Amendments enacted in that year. From its inception, the Trust Fund has always worked the same way. The Social Security Trust Fund has never been "put into the general fund of the government."
Most likely this question comes from a confusion between the financing of the Social Security program and the way the Social Security Trust Fund is treated in federal budget accounting. Starting in 1969 (due to action by the Johnson Administration in 1968) the transactions to the Trust Fund were included in what is known as the "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget. This is sometimes described by saying that the Social Security Trust Funds are "on-budget." This budget treatment of the Social Security Trust Fund continued until 1990 when the Trust Funds were again taken "off-budget." This means only that they are shown as a separate account in the federal budget. But whether the Trust Funds are "on-budget" or "off-budget" is primarily a question of accounting practices--it has no effect on the actual operations of the Trust Fund itself.
Social Security History

The "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget.
That means they used the Social Security funds for other government programs and it included the funding for the Viet Nam War. After the war it was continually used for other government programs. Before that, the SSI funds was not included a unified budget and congress was not able to use the funds for anything other than just the Social Security program.


During the past 25 years, five presidents, from President Johnson to President Obama and the members of Congress, have participated in the great Social Security scam. All Social Security contributions made by working Americans, except the amount which was needed to pay current retirement benefits, has been funneled into the general fund and used for non-Social Security purposes.
Some like to say that the government just “borrowed” the money during the time period when it was not needed to pay benefits. But borrowing implies repayment, and no provisions for repayment have been made.
The government did not enact future tax increases that would automatically kick in when the Social Security money was needed. Neither did they enact legislation that would end other spending programs once the Social Security money was needed so the money could be transferred to the trust fund.
The government spent the Social Security money, pure and simple, without making any provisions for future repayments. The IOUs in the trust fund are not marketable, and they could not be sold to anyone even for a penny on the dollar.
The Social Security trustees confirmed the worthlessness of the IOUs in the 2009 Social Security Trustees Report with the following words:
“Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.”
In order for Social Security to pay full benefits after 2016, it will be necessary for the government to begin repaying the money it has spent on other things. This will mean increased taxes and/or additional borrowing.
Neither of these is politically popular, and there is no assurance that future politicians will be willing to raise taxes to pay for the irresponsible behavior of past politicians. If the money is not repaid in full, with interest, it will have been stolen by the government from working Americans who paid into the fund.

Read it for yourself in the report
Table of Contents

Since Social Security would be fully funded until at least 2037 if the government had not used the money for other things, the only reason that politicians are advocating cuts in Social Security benefits is the fact that the government does not have the money with which to pay its debt to Social Security.
Given the fact that Section 13301 of the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 made it a violation of federal law to use Social Security revenue for non-Social Security purposes, it is hard to justify using the word “borrow” to refer to any of the Social Security money spent after 1990, even if it is eventually paid back.
It was stolen from the American workers pure and simple by a political accounting tactic.

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

Two: Here is your confusion=
In the early 1980s the Social Security Trust Funds had developed short-term cash flow problems, as a result of the adverse performance of the economy during the "stagflation" of the 1970s. As a stop-gap measure, Congress passed legislation in 1981 to permit inter-fund borrowing among the three Trust Funds (the Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund; the Disability Trust Fund; and the Medicare Trust Fund). This authority was to lapse at the end of 1982. However, the 1983 Amendments extended the inter-fund borrowing authority to the end of 1987. Under the law as amended, all loans would have to be repaid by the end of 1989.

The inter-fund loans were required to be repaid with an amount of interest equal to that which the loaning fund would have earned had it had use of the money during this time. In other words, the borrowing fund was required to make the loaning fund whole at the end of the process.

This authority was used twice, once in November 1982 and once in December 1982. The total amount borrowed was $17.5 billion. The Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund borrowed the money-$5.1 billion from the Disability Trust Fund and $12.4 billion from the Medicare Trust Fund. Repayment began in 1985 and the debt to the Medicare Trust Fund was paid off by January 1986 and the debt to the Disability Trust Fund was liquidated in April 1986.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

This is from 1983-Note that there are four funds listed here and why,
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

Ok?
OK.

Payroll taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Social Security taxes provide benefits for retired workers, the disabled, and the dependents of both. The Medicare tax is used to provide medical benefits for certain individuals when they reach age 65. Workers, retired workers, and the spouses of both are eligible to receive Medicare benefits upon reaching age 65. Federal income taxes are used to provide for national programs such as national defense; veterans and foreign affairs; social programs; physical, human, and community development; law enforcement; and interest on the national debt.
Understanding Taxes - Module 1 Payroll Taxes and Federal Income Tax Withholding

Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government.
There are two general types of such securities:

1. special issues—securities available only to the trust funds; and
2. public issues—securities available to the public (marketable securities).

Today all securities held by the trust funds are special issues, but the funds have held public issues in the past.
Special issue types and properties
There are two types of special issues: short-term certificates of indebtedness and long-term bonds.

• The certificates of indebtedness are issued on a daily basis for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue.
• Special-issue bonds are normally acquired only when special issues of either type mature on June 30. The bonds have maturities ranging from one to fifteen years.

The above properties of special issue securities are summarized in the following table.

Type of special issue	Investment frequency	Maturity
Certificates of indebtedness	Daily	Next June 30
Bonds	June 30	1 to 15 years

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Special issue redemption rules
When special issues need to be redeemed prior to maturity, the securities are redeemed in order of

1. Earliest maturity date;
2. Lowest interest rate for securities with the same maturity date.

Special-issue securities Social Security trust funds

Thank you for clearly demonstrating how Social Security can easily be made solvent and in no way resembles a ponzi scheme.

The fact the SS need to be "made solvent" is all the evidence needed to prove it's a Ponzi schemes. Legitimate private sector programs don't ever "need to be made solvent." That's another way of saying they are insolvent: bankrupt, in other words.

Actually, private sector programs did need to be "made solvent." Most private sector pensions were not fully funded a decade ago also. Did that make most corporate pension plans "bankrupt?" Of course not. That's silly. Instead, companies increased contributions. SS can be "made solvent" in the same way.

That's not a valid comparison since the corporations didn't take the money from the beneficiaries. If they had, they would have been prosecuted.

 

[Disir]

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

And I don't think you understand there is no money in a Social Security Trust Fund. What is in the “Trust Fund” are Treasury Notes, and Treasury Notes are another swindling operation used to steal real material wealth created by the sweat of hard working wage earners.

An “investor” who purchases a few hundred thousand dollars in T Bills is rewarded by a tax levied on working people’s earned wages to pay principle and interest to the "investor" which is paid in Federal Reserve Notes taxed away from working people's earned wages.

In fact, T Bills are a clever slide of hand scheme cooked up by Wall Street Bankers that are used in conjunction with Federal Reserve Notes which are a thieving paper money scheme that was specifically intended to be forbidden by our Founders during the framing of our Constitution, when they forbid notes of any kind to be made a “legal tender”.

Federal Reserve Notes are used by a corrupted banking system and government to swindle and steal real material wealth which is created by our nation’s manufactures, businesses and labor.

JWK

"Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none have been more effectual than that which deludes them with paper money. This is the most effectual of inventions to fertilize the rich man's field by the sweat of the poor man's brow."_____ Daniel Webster.

Go back and read what I wrote. I don't care how you feel. It's not about how you feel.

 

[Disir]

Where do you people get these stupid fucking ideas?

It is not stupid ideas it is a fact.
LBJ was running an expensive war in South East Asia while also attempting to launch social engineering through programs which began with his 'Great Society'. Lacking the means to pay for both, he had the Social Security Trust Funds moved into the general fund. As these funds were removed they were replaced with an IOU and it continues to this very day.

Q1. Which political party took Social Security from the independent trust fund and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?

A1: There has never been any change in the way the Social Security program is financed or the way that Social Security payroll taxes are used by the federal government. The Social Security Trust Fund was created in 1939 as part of the Amendments enacted in that year. From its inception, the Trust Fund has always worked the same way. The Social Security Trust Fund has never been "put into the general fund of the government."
Most likely this question comes from a confusion between the financing of the Social Security program and the way the Social Security Trust Fund is treated in federal budget accounting. Starting in 1969 (due to action by the Johnson Administration in 1968) the transactions to the Trust Fund were included in what is known as the "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget. This is sometimes described by saying that the Social Security Trust Funds are "on-budget." This budget treatment of the Social Security Trust Fund continued until 1990 when the Trust Funds were again taken "off-budget." This means only that they are shown as a separate account in the federal budget. But whether the Trust Funds are "on-budget" or "off-budget" is primarily a question of accounting practices--it has no effect on the actual operations of the Trust Fund itself.
Social Security History

The "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget.
That means they used the Social Security funds for other government programs and it included the funding for the Viet Nam War. After the war it was continually used for other government programs. Before that, the SSI funds was not included a unified budget and congress was not able to use the funds for anything other than just the Social Security program.


During the past 25 years, five presidents, from President Johnson to President Obama and the members of Congress, have participated in the great Social Security scam. All Social Security contributions made by working Americans, except the amount which was needed to pay current retirement benefits, has been funneled into the general fund and used for non-Social Security purposes.
Some like to say that the government just “borrowed” the money during the time period when it was not needed to pay benefits. But borrowing implies repayment, and no provisions for repayment have been made.
The government did not enact future tax increases that would automatically kick in when the Social Security money was needed. Neither did they enact legislation that would end other spending programs once the Social Security money was needed so the money could be transferred to the trust fund.
The government spent the Social Security money, pure and simple, without making any provisions for future repayments. The IOUs in the trust fund are not marketable, and they could not be sold to anyone even for a penny on the dollar.
The Social Security trustees confirmed the worthlessness of the IOUs in the 2009 Social Security Trustees Report with the following words:
“Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.”
In order for Social Security to pay full benefits after 2016, it will be necessary for the government to begin repaying the money it has spent on other things. This will mean increased taxes and/or additional borrowing.
Neither of these is politically popular, and there is no assurance that future politicians will be willing to raise taxes to pay for the irresponsible behavior of past politicians. If the money is not repaid in full, with interest, it will have been stolen by the government from working Americans who paid into the fund.

Read it for yourself in the report
Table of Contents

Since Social Security would be fully funded until at least 2037 if the government had not used the money for other things, the only reason that politicians are advocating cuts in Social Security benefits is the fact that the government does not have the money with which to pay its debt to Social Security.
Given the fact that Section 13301 of the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 made it a violation of federal law to use Social Security revenue for non-Social Security purposes, it is hard to justify using the word “borrow” to refer to any of the Social Security money spent after 1990, even if it is eventually paid back.
It was stolen from the American workers pure and simple by a political accounting tactic.

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

Two: Here is your confusion=
In the early 1980s the Social Security Trust Funds had developed short-term cash flow problems, as a result of the adverse performance of the economy during the "stagflation" of the 1970s. As a stop-gap measure, Congress passed legislation in 1981 to permit inter-fund borrowing among the three Trust Funds (the Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund; the Disability Trust Fund; and the Medicare Trust Fund). This authority was to lapse at the end of 1982. However, the 1983 Amendments extended the inter-fund borrowing authority to the end of 1987. Under the law as amended, all loans would have to be repaid by the end of 1989.

The inter-fund loans were required to be repaid with an amount of interest equal to that which the loaning fund would have earned had it had use of the money during this time. In other words, the borrowing fund was required to make the loaning fund whole at the end of the process.

This authority was used twice, once in November 1982 and once in December 1982. The total amount borrowed was $17.5 billion. The Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund borrowed the money-$5.1 billion from the Disability Trust Fund and $12.4 billion from the Medicare Trust Fund. Repayment began in 1985 and the debt to the Medicare Trust Fund was paid off by January 1986 and the debt to the Disability Trust Fund was liquidated in April 1986.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

This is from 1983-Note that there are four funds listed here and why,
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

Ok?
OK.

Payroll taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Social Security taxes provide benefits for retired workers, the disabled, and the dependents of both. The Medicare tax is used to provide medical benefits for certain individuals when they reach age 65. Workers, retired workers, and the spouses of both are eligible to receive Medicare benefits upon reaching age 65. Federal income taxes are used to provide for national programs such as national defense; veterans and foreign affairs; social programs; physical, human, and community development; law enforcement; and interest on the national debt.
Understanding Taxes - Module 1 Payroll Taxes and Federal Income Tax Withholding

Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government.
There are two general types of such securities:

1. special issues—securities available only to the trust funds; and
2. public issues—securities available to the public (marketable securities).

Today all securities held by the trust funds are special issues, but the funds have held public issues in the past.
Special issue types and properties
There are two types of special issues: short-term certificates of indebtedness and long-term bonds.

• The certificates of indebtedness are issued on a daily basis for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue.
• Special-issue bonds are normally acquired only when special issues of either type mature on June 30. The bonds have maturities ranging from one to fifteen years.

The above properties of special issue securities are summarized in the following table.

Type of special issue	Investment frequency	Maturity
Certificates of indebtedness	Daily	Next June 30
Bonds	June 30	1 to 15 years

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Special issue redemption rules
When special issues need to be redeemed prior to maturity, the securities are redeemed in order of

1. Earliest maturity date;
2. Lowest interest rate for securities with the same maturity date.

Special-issue securities Social Security trust funds

From the Social Security's web site
Social Security History
The law was changed to stop the use of the Trust Funds for any function in the unified budget, including calculations of the deficit. One sub-part of OBRA 1990 was called the Budget Enforcement Act (BEA), and it was this sub-part that specified this change in the law.

Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (OBRA) of 1990
Bill Text - 101st Congress 1989-1990 - THOMAS Library of Congress
EXCLUSION OF SOCIAL SECURITY FROM ALL BUDGETS-

• 
  Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the receipts and disbursements of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund shall not be counted as new budget authority, outlays, receipts, or deficit or surplus for purposes of--

• • 
    (1) the budget of the United States Government as submitted by the President,

• • 
    (2) the congressional budget, or

• • 
    (3) the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985.

• 
  (b) EXCLUSION OF SOCIAL SECURITY FROM CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET- Section 301(a) of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974 is amended by adding at the end the following: `The concurrent resolution shall not include the outlays and revenue totals of the old age, survivors, and disability insurance program established under title II of the Social Security Act or the related provisions of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 in the surplus or deficit totals required by this subsection or in any other surplus or deficit totals required by this title.'.

It means precisely what I said it did.

 

[Toro]

The "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget.
That means they used the Social Security funds for other government programs and it included the funding for the Viet Nam War. After the war it was continually used for other government programs. Before that, the SSI funds was not included a unified budget and congress was not able to use the funds for anything other than just the Social Security program.


During the past 25 years, five presidents, from President Johnson to President Obama and the members of Congress, have participated in the great Social Security scam. All Social Security contributions made by working Americans, except the amount which was needed to pay current retirement benefits, has been funneled into the general fund and used for non-Social Security purposes.
Some like to say that the government just “borrowed” the money during the time period when it was not needed to pay benefits. But borrowing implies repayment, and no provisions for repayment have been made.
The government did not enact future tax increases that would automatically kick in when the Social Security money was needed. Neither did they enact legislation that would end other spending programs once the Social Security money was needed so the money could be transferred to the trust fund.
The government spent the Social Security money, pure and simple, without making any provisions for future repayments. The IOUs in the trust fund are not marketable, and they could not be sold to anyone even for a penny on the dollar.
The Social Security trustees confirmed the worthlessness of the IOUs in the 2009 Social Security Trustees Report with the following words:
“Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.”
In order for Social Security to pay full benefits after 2016, it will be necessary for the government to begin repaying the money it has spent on other things. This will mean increased taxes and/or additional borrowing.
Neither of these is politically popular, and there is no assurance that future politicians will be willing to raise taxes to pay for the irresponsible behavior of past politicians. If the money is not repaid in full, with interest, it will have been stolen by the government from working Americans who paid into the fund.

Read it for yourself in the report
Table of Contents

Since Social Security would be fully funded until at least 2037 if the government had not used the money for other things, the only reason that politicians are advocating cuts in Social Security benefits is the fact that the government does not have the money with which to pay its debt to Social Security.
Given the fact that Section 13301 of the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 made it a violation of federal law to use Social Security revenue for non-Social Security purposes, it is hard to justify using the word “borrow” to refer to any of the Social Security money spent after 1990, even if it is eventually paid back.
It was stolen from the American workers pure and simple by a political accounting tactic.

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

Two: Here is your confusion=
In the early 1980s the Social Security Trust Funds had developed short-term cash flow problems, as a result of the adverse performance of the economy during the "stagflation" of the 1970s. As a stop-gap measure, Congress passed legislation in 1981 to permit inter-fund borrowing among the three Trust Funds (the Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund; the Disability Trust Fund; and the Medicare Trust Fund). This authority was to lapse at the end of 1982. However, the 1983 Amendments extended the inter-fund borrowing authority to the end of 1987. Under the law as amended, all loans would have to be repaid by the end of 1989.

The inter-fund loans were required to be repaid with an amount of interest equal to that which the loaning fund would have earned had it had use of the money during this time. In other words, the borrowing fund was required to make the loaning fund whole at the end of the process.

This authority was used twice, once in November 1982 and once in December 1982. The total amount borrowed was $17.5 billion. The Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund borrowed the money-$5.1 billion from the Disability Trust Fund and $12.4 billion from the Medicare Trust Fund. Repayment began in 1985 and the debt to the Medicare Trust Fund was paid off by January 1986 and the debt to the Disability Trust Fund was liquidated in April 1986.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

This is from 1983-Note that there are four funds listed here and why,
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

Ok?
OK.

Payroll taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Social Security taxes provide benefits for retired workers, the disabled, and the dependents of both. The Medicare tax is used to provide medical benefits for certain individuals when they reach age 65. Workers, retired workers, and the spouses of both are eligible to receive Medicare benefits upon reaching age 65. Federal income taxes are used to provide for national programs such as national defense; veterans and foreign affairs; social programs; physical, human, and community development; law enforcement; and interest on the national debt.
Understanding Taxes - Module 1 Payroll Taxes and Federal Income Tax Withholding

Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government.
There are two general types of such securities:

1. special issues—securities available only to the trust funds; and
2. public issues—securities available to the public (marketable securities).

Today all securities held by the trust funds are special issues, but the funds have held public issues in the past.
Special issue types and properties
There are two types of special issues: short-term certificates of indebtedness and long-term bonds.

• The certificates of indebtedness are issued on a daily basis for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue.
• Special-issue bonds are normally acquired only when special issues of either type mature on June 30. The bonds have maturities ranging from one to fifteen years.

The above properties of special issue securities are summarized in the following table.

Type of special issue	Investment frequency	Maturity
Certificates of indebtedness	Daily	Next June 30
Bonds	June 30	1 to 15 years

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Special issue redemption rules
When special issues need to be redeemed prior to maturity, the securities are redeemed in order of

1. Earliest maturity date;
2. Lowest interest rate for securities with the same maturity date.

Special-issue securities Social Security trust funds

Thank you for clearly demonstrating how Social Security can easily be made solvent and in no way resembles a ponzi scheme.

The fact the SS need to be "made solvent" is all the evidence needed to prove it's a Ponzi schemes. Legitimate private sector programs don't ever "need to be made solvent." That's another way of saying they are insolvent: bankrupt, in other words.

Actually, private sector programs did need to be "made solvent." Most private sector pensions were not fully funded a decade ago also. Did that make most corporate pension plans "bankrupt?" Of course not. That's silly. Instead, companies increased contributions. SS can be "made solvent" in the same way.

That's not a valid comparison since the corporations didn't take the money from the beneficiaries. If they had, they would have been prosecuted.

SS didn't take money from the benficiaries either. "Solvency" means ability to pay. SS can pay. Like corporate plans a decade ago, it can't pay in total. So SS can be fixed the same way corporate plans were fixed - by increasing contributions from paying contributors.

Edit - I will rephrase. All defined benefit plans require their members to pay. For corporate plans, members increased their contributions. SS can do the same thing.

 

[Siete]

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

Two: Here is your confusion=
In the early 1980s the Social Security Trust Funds had developed short-term cash flow problems, as a result of the adverse performance of the economy during the "stagflation" of the 1970s. As a stop-gap measure, Congress passed legislation in 1981 to permit inter-fund borrowing among the three Trust Funds (the Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund; the Disability Trust Fund; and the Medicare Trust Fund). This authority was to lapse at the end of 1982. However, the 1983 Amendments extended the inter-fund borrowing authority to the end of 1987. Under the law as amended, all loans would have to be repaid by the end of 1989.

The inter-fund loans were required to be repaid with an amount of interest equal to that which the loaning fund would have earned had it had use of the money during this time. In other words, the borrowing fund was required to make the loaning fund whole at the end of the process.

This authority was used twice, once in November 1982 and once in December 1982. The total amount borrowed was $17.5 billion. The Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund borrowed the money-$5.1 billion from the Disability Trust Fund and $12.4 billion from the Medicare Trust Fund. Repayment began in 1985 and the debt to the Medicare Trust Fund was paid off by January 1986 and the debt to the Disability Trust Fund was liquidated in April 1986.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

This is from 1983-Note that there are four funds listed here and why,
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

Ok?
OK.

Payroll taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Social Security taxes provide benefits for retired workers, the disabled, and the dependents of both. The Medicare tax is used to provide medical benefits for certain individuals when they reach age 65. Workers, retired workers, and the spouses of both are eligible to receive Medicare benefits upon reaching age 65. Federal income taxes are used to provide for national programs such as national defense; veterans and foreign affairs; social programs; physical, human, and community development; law enforcement; and interest on the national debt.
Understanding Taxes - Module 1 Payroll Taxes and Federal Income Tax Withholding

Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government.
There are two general types of such securities:

1. special issues—securities available only to the trust funds; and
2. public issues—securities available to the public (marketable securities).

Today all securities held by the trust funds are special issues, but the funds have held public issues in the past.
Special issue types and properties
There are two types of special issues: short-term certificates of indebtedness and long-term bonds.

• The certificates of indebtedness are issued on a daily basis for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue.
• Special-issue bonds are normally acquired only when special issues of either type mature on June 30. The bonds have maturities ranging from one to fifteen years.

The above properties of special issue securities are summarized in the following table.

Type of special issue	Investment frequency	Maturity
Certificates of indebtedness	Daily	Next June 30
Bonds	June 30	1 to 15 years

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Special issue redemption rules
When special issues need to be redeemed prior to maturity, the securities are redeemed in order of

1. Earliest maturity date;
2. Lowest interest rate for securities with the same maturity date.

Special-issue securities Social Security trust funds

Thank you for clearly demonstrating how Social Security can easily be made solvent and in no way resembles a ponzi scheme.

The fact the SS need to be "made solvent" is all the evidence needed to prove it's a Ponzi schemes. Legitimate private sector programs don't ever "need to be made solvent." That's another way of saying they are insolvent: bankrupt, in other words.

Actually, private sector programs did need to be "made solvent." Most private sector pensions were not fully funded a decade ago also. Did that make most corporate pension plans "bankrupt?" Of course not. That's silly. Instead, companies increased contributions. SS can be "made solvent" in the same way.

That's not a valid comparison since the corporations didn't take the money from the beneficiaries. If they had, they would have been prosecuted.

SS didn't take money from the benficiaries either. "Solvency" means ability to pay. SS can pay. Like corporate plans a decade ago, it can't pay in total. So SS can be fixed the same way corporate plans were fixed - by increasing contributions from paying contributors.

Edit - I will rephrase. All defined benefit plans require their members to pay. For corporate plans, members increased their contributions. SS can do the same thing.

SS is an easy fix. The RW will never believe that.. EVER.

 

[bripat9643]

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

Two: Here is your confusion=
In the early 1980s the Social Security Trust Funds had developed short-term cash flow problems, as a result of the adverse performance of the economy during the "stagflation" of the 1970s. As a stop-gap measure, Congress passed legislation in 1981 to permit inter-fund borrowing among the three Trust Funds (the Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund; the Disability Trust Fund; and the Medicare Trust Fund). This authority was to lapse at the end of 1982. However, the 1983 Amendments extended the inter-fund borrowing authority to the end of 1987. Under the law as amended, all loans would have to be repaid by the end of 1989.

The inter-fund loans were required to be repaid with an amount of interest equal to that which the loaning fund would have earned had it had use of the money during this time. In other words, the borrowing fund was required to make the loaning fund whole at the end of the process.

This authority was used twice, once in November 1982 and once in December 1982. The total amount borrowed was $17.5 billion. The Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund borrowed the money-$5.1 billion from the Disability Trust Fund and $12.4 billion from the Medicare Trust Fund. Repayment began in 1985 and the debt to the Medicare Trust Fund was paid off by January 1986 and the debt to the Disability Trust Fund was liquidated in April 1986.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

This is from 1983-Note that there are four funds listed here and why,
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

Ok?
OK.

Payroll taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Social Security taxes provide benefits for retired workers, the disabled, and the dependents of both. The Medicare tax is used to provide medical benefits for certain individuals when they reach age 65. Workers, retired workers, and the spouses of both are eligible to receive Medicare benefits upon reaching age 65. Federal income taxes are used to provide for national programs such as national defense; veterans and foreign affairs; social programs; physical, human, and community development; law enforcement; and interest on the national debt.
Understanding Taxes - Module 1 Payroll Taxes and Federal Income Tax Withholding

Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government.
There are two general types of such securities:

1. special issues—securities available only to the trust funds; and
2. public issues—securities available to the public (marketable securities).

Today all securities held by the trust funds are special issues, but the funds have held public issues in the past.
Special issue types and properties
There are two types of special issues: short-term certificates of indebtedness and long-term bonds.

• The certificates of indebtedness are issued on a daily basis for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue.
• Special-issue bonds are normally acquired only when special issues of either type mature on June 30. The bonds have maturities ranging from one to fifteen years.

The above properties of special issue securities are summarized in the following table.

Type of special issue	Investment frequency	Maturity
Certificates of indebtedness	Daily	Next June 30
Bonds	June 30	1 to 15 years

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Special issue redemption rules
When special issues need to be redeemed prior to maturity, the securities are redeemed in order of

1. Earliest maturity date;
2. Lowest interest rate for securities with the same maturity date.

Special-issue securities Social Security trust funds

Thank you for clearly demonstrating how Social Security can easily be made solvent and in no way resembles a ponzi scheme.

The fact the SS need to be "made solvent" is all the evidence needed to prove it's a Ponzi schemes. Legitimate private sector programs don't ever "need to be made solvent." That's another way of saying they are insolvent: bankrupt, in other words.

Actually, private sector programs did need to be "made solvent." Most private sector pensions were not fully funded a decade ago also. Did that make most corporate pension plans "bankrupt?" Of course not. That's silly. Instead, companies increased contributions. SS can be "made solvent" in the same way.

That's not a valid comparison since the corporations didn't take the money from the beneficiaries. If they had, they would have been prosecuted.

SS didn't take money from the benficiaries either. "Solvency" means ability to pay. SS can pay. Like corporate plans a decade ago, it can't pay in total. So SS can be fixed the same way corporate plans were fixed - by increasing contributions from paying contributors.

Edit - I will rephrase. All defined benefit plans require their members to pay. For corporate plans, members increased their contributions. SS can do the same thing.

SS doesn't take money from beneficiaries? What do you call FICA taxes? Are you claiming taxpayers aren't the beneficiaries? Recipients of corporate pensions never pay a dime into the system. I have never had a dime deducted from my paycheck to cover a corporate pension plan.

SS can pay only if it takes more money from beneficiaries (taxpayers). So your comparison doesn't wash. There is no contractual relationship between a corporation and its retirees, at least not before they retire.

A Ponzi scheme only applies to contractual relationship where an investor is promised a specific rate of return for a given amount of money paid in. A better analogy would be a mortgage. The bank can suddenly tell you that your mortgage payment is going to increase because the bank can't pay it's bills. Another analogy would be an insurance annuity. All the money is paid in up front, but the issuer of the annuity cannot reduce your monthly payout because it's having financial difficulties. If it does it has to declare bankruptcy.

 

[bripat9643]

Thank you for clearly demonstrating how Social Security can easily be made solvent and in no way resembles a ponzi scheme.

The fact the SS need to be "made solvent" is all the evidence needed to prove it's a Ponzi schemes. Legitimate private sector programs don't ever "need to be made solvent." That's another way of saying they are insolvent: bankrupt, in other words.

Actually, private sector programs did need to be "made solvent." Most private sector pensions were not fully funded a decade ago also. Did that make most corporate pension plans "bankrupt?" Of course not. That's silly. Instead, companies increased contributions. SS can be "made solvent" in the same way.

That's not a valid comparison since the corporations didn't take the money from the beneficiaries. If they had, they would have been prosecuted.

SS didn't take money from the benficiaries either. "Solvency" means ability to pay. SS can pay. Like corporate plans a decade ago, it can't pay in total. So SS can be fixed the same way corporate plans were fixed - by increasing contributions from paying contributors.

Edit - I will rephrase. All defined benefit plans require their members to pay. For corporate plans, members increased their contributions. SS can do the same thing.

SS is an easy fix. The RW will never believe that.. EVER.

Yeah, looting people is always an easy fix in the eyes of liberals and other professional criminals.

 

[Staidhup]

Soc Sec is just another method the government used to fund deficit spending, with the hope that those that pay will never see a check, whoops now people live longer, big problem, maybe the war on tobacco industry wasn't such a good idea after all, furthermore with a the lowest employment participation rate in 38 years where are all the funds going to come from? Oh well means testing is coming and the american worker is going to get shafted again by the travail of liberalism. Rest assure they will continue to vote for the one that promises to turn straw into gold.

 

[Toro]

Thank you for clearly demonstrating how Social Security can easily be made solvent and in no way resembles a ponzi scheme.

The fact the SS need to be "made solvent" is all the evidence needed to prove it's a Ponzi schemes. Legitimate private sector programs don't ever "need to be made solvent." That's another way of saying they are insolvent: bankrupt, in other words.

Actually, private sector programs did need to be "made solvent." Most private sector pensions were not fully funded a decade ago also. Did that make most corporate pension plans "bankrupt?" Of course not. That's silly. Instead, companies increased contributions. SS can be "made solvent" in the same way.

That's not a valid comparison since the corporations didn't take the money from the beneficiaries. If they had, they would have been prosecuted.

SS didn't take money from the benficiaries either. "Solvency" means ability to pay. SS can pay. Like corporate plans a decade ago, it can't pay in total. So SS can be fixed the same way corporate plans were fixed - by increasing contributions from paying contributors.

Edit - I will rephrase. All defined benefit plans require their members to pay. For corporate plans, members increased their contributions. SS can do the same thing.

SS doesn't take money from beneficiaries? What do you call FICA taxes? Are you claiming taxpayers aren't the beneficiaries? Recipients of corporate pensions never pay a dime into the system. I have never had a dime deducted from my paycheck to cover a corporate pension plan.

SS can pay only if it takes more money from beneficiaries (taxpayers). So your comparison doesn't wash. There is no contractual relationship between a corporation and its retirees, at least not before they retire.

A Ponzi scheme only applies to contractual relationship where an investor is promised a specific rate of return for a given amount of money paid in. A better analogy would be a mortgage. The bank can suddenly tell you that your mortgage payment is going to increase because the bank can't pay it's bills. Another analogy would be an insurance annuity. All the money is paid in up front, but the issuer of the annuity cannot reduce your monthly payout because it's having financial difficulties. If it does it has to declare bankruptcy.

You are paying into your corporate pension, if you are in a defined benefit program. It's being paid by your company. It's part if your total compensation. Firms write that expense off as compensation.

Your definition of a Ponzi Scheme is incorrect. ALL defined benefit pensions are promises to pay a contractual rate of return for a given of money paid in. That's a pension plan, not a Ponzi Scheme. Scroll back in this thread where I gave you a definition if a Ponzi Scheme.

 

[Siete]

The fact the SS need to be "made solvent" is all the evidence needed to prove it's a Ponzi schemes. Legitimate private sector programs don't ever "need to be made solvent." That's another way of saying they are insolvent: bankrupt, in other words.

Actually, private sector programs did need to be "made solvent." Most private sector pensions were not fully funded a decade ago also. Did that make most corporate pension plans "bankrupt?" Of course not. That's silly. Instead, companies increased contributions. SS can be "made solvent" in the same way.

That's not a valid comparison since the corporations didn't take the money from the beneficiaries. If they had, they would have been prosecuted.

SS didn't take money from the benficiaries either. "Solvency" means ability to pay. SS can pay. Like corporate plans a decade ago, it can't pay in total. So SS can be fixed the same way corporate plans were fixed - by increasing contributions from paying contributors.

Edit - I will rephrase. All defined benefit plans require their members to pay. For corporate plans, members increased their contributions. SS can do the same thing.

SS is an easy fix. The RW will never believe that.. EVER.

Yeah, looting people is always an easy fix in the eyes of liberals and other professional criminals.

and you're an idiot ... proven time and time again idiot.

 

[bripat9643]

The fact the SS need to be "made solvent" is all the evidence needed to prove it's a Ponzi schemes. Legitimate private sector programs don't ever "need to be made solvent." That's another way of saying they are insolvent: bankrupt, in other words.

Actually, private sector programs did need to be "made solvent." Most private sector pensions were not fully funded a decade ago also. Did that make most corporate pension plans "bankrupt?" Of course not. That's silly. Instead, companies increased contributions. SS can be "made solvent" in the same way.

That's not a valid comparison since the corporations didn't take the money from the beneficiaries. If they had, they would have been prosecuted.

SS didn't take money from the benficiaries either. "Solvency" means ability to pay. SS can pay. Like corporate plans a decade ago, it can't pay in total. So SS can be fixed the same way corporate plans were fixed - by increasing contributions from paying contributors.

Edit - I will rephrase. All defined benefit plans require their members to pay. For corporate plans, members increased their contributions. SS can do the same thing.

SS doesn't take money from beneficiaries? What do you call FICA taxes? Are you claiming taxpayers aren't the beneficiaries? Recipients of corporate pensions never pay a dime into the system. I have never had a dime deducted from my paycheck to cover a corporate pension plan.

SS can pay only if it takes more money from beneficiaries (taxpayers). So your comparison doesn't wash. There is no contractual relationship between a corporation and its retirees, at least not before they retire.

A Ponzi scheme only applies to contractual relationship where an investor is promised a specific rate of return for a given amount of money paid in. A better analogy would be a mortgage. The bank can suddenly tell you that your mortgage payment is going to increase because the bank can't pay it's bills. Another analogy would be an insurance annuity. All the money is paid in up front, but the issuer of the annuity cannot reduce your monthly payout because it's having financial difficulties. If it does it has to declare bankruptcy.

You are paying into your corporate pension, if you are in a defined benefit program. It's being paid by your company. It's part if your total compensation. Firms write that expense off as compensation.

Your definition of a Ponzi Scheme is incorrect. ALL defined benefit pensions are promises to pay a contractual rate of return for a given of money paid in. That's a pension plan, not a Ponzi Scheme. Scroll back in this thread where I gave you a definition if a Ponzi Scheme.

The reality is that I'm paying in, because all benefits are counted as employee compensation by the corporation. However, legally there is no document that says I'm paying 'X' amount to a pension plan. Most places I've worked you aren't even eligible to receive a pension unless you've been there at least 5 years.

There is a document that says what the pension benefit is. If the company isn't allowed to change it by law, then it doesn't help your analogy because the company would have to declare bankruptcy to change it. The government has already changed the SS benefit it pays out a number of times. If a private corporation did that, the executives of the company would all be in jail.


If you compare SS with union pension plans, then that is a different story. Money is taken out of every paycheck and goes into a pension fund. The contribution and the benefit is defined by the contractual relationship between you and your union. If the union violates any of the terms in that contract, it has to declare bankruptcy.

 

[bripat9643]

Actually, private sector programs did need to be "made solvent." Most private sector pensions were not fully funded a decade ago also. Did that make most corporate pension plans "bankrupt?" Of course not. That's silly. Instead, companies increased contributions. SS can be "made solvent" in the same way.

That's not a valid comparison since the corporations didn't take the money from the beneficiaries. If they had, they would have been prosecuted.

SS didn't take money from the benficiaries either. "Solvency" means ability to pay. SS can pay. Like corporate plans a decade ago, it can't pay in total. So SS can be fixed the same way corporate plans were fixed - by increasing contributions from paying contributors.

Edit - I will rephrase. All defined benefit plans require their members to pay. For corporate plans, members increased their contributions. SS can do the same thing.

SS is an easy fix. The RW will never believe that.. EVER.

Yeah, looting people is always an easy fix in the eyes of liberals and other professional criminals.

and you're an idiot ... proven time and time again idiot.

The simple truth really pisses you off, doesn't it?

 

[johnwk]

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

And I don't think you understand there is no money in a Social Security Trust Fund. What is in the “Trust Fund” are Treasury Notes, and Treasury Notes are another swindling operation used to steal real material wealth created by the sweat of hard working wage earners.

An “investor” who purchases a few hundred thousand dollars in T Bills is rewarded by a tax levied on working people’s earned wages to pay principle and interest to the "investor" which is paid in Federal Reserve Notes taxed away from working people's earned wages.

In fact, T Bills are a clever slide of hand scheme cooked up by Wall Street Bankers that are used in conjunction with Federal Reserve Notes which are a thieving paper money scheme that was specifically intended to be forbidden by our Founders during the framing of our Constitution, when they forbid notes of any kind to be made a “legal tender”.

Federal Reserve Notes are used by a corrupted banking system and government to swindle and steal real material wealth which is created by our nation’s manufactures, businesses and labor.

JWK

"Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none have been more effectual than that which deludes them with paper money. This is the most effectual of inventions to fertilize the rich man's field by the sweat of the poor man's brow."_____ Daniel Webster.

Go back and read what I wrote. I don't care how you feel. It's not about how you feel.

You are absolutely correct that this is not about how one feels. This is about the facts, and that is why I posted the facts.


JWK




What more will it take for a majority of the America People to conclude Obama is a terrorist enabler? When they find out Obama is bombing empty buildings and abandoned pickup trucks with his air strikes, and wasting very expensive U.S. military equipment?

 

[Toro]

Actually, private sector programs did need to be "made solvent." Most private sector pensions were not fully funded a decade ago also. Did that make most corporate pension plans "bankrupt?" Of course not. That's silly. Instead, companies increased contributions. SS can be "made solvent" in the same way.

That's not a valid comparison since the corporations didn't take the money from the beneficiaries. If they had, they would have been prosecuted.

SS didn't take money from the benficiaries either. "Solvency" means ability to pay. SS can pay. Like corporate plans a decade ago, it can't pay in total. So SS can be fixed the same way corporate plans were fixed - by increasing contributions from paying contributors.

Edit - I will rephrase. All defined benefit plans require their members to pay. For corporate plans, members increased their contributions. SS can do the same thing.

SS doesn't take money from beneficiaries? What do you call FICA taxes? Are you claiming taxpayers aren't the beneficiaries? Recipients of corporate pensions never pay a dime into the system. I have never had a dime deducted from my paycheck to cover a corporate pension plan.

SS can pay only if it takes more money from beneficiaries (taxpayers). So your comparison doesn't wash. There is no contractual relationship between a corporation and its retirees, at least not before they retire.

A Ponzi scheme only applies to contractual relationship where an investor is promised a specific rate of return for a given amount of money paid in. A better analogy would be a mortgage. The bank can suddenly tell you that your mortgage payment is going to increase because the bank can't pay it's bills. Another analogy would be an insurance annuity. All the money is paid in up front, but the issuer of the annuity cannot reduce your monthly payout because it's having financial difficulties. If it does it has to declare bankruptcy.

You are paying into your corporate pension, if you are in a defined benefit program. It's being paid by your company. It's part if your total compensation. Firms write that expense off as compensation.

Your definition of a Ponzi Scheme is incorrect. ALL defined benefit pensions are promises to pay a contractual rate of return for a given of money paid in. That's a pension plan, not a Ponzi Scheme. Scroll back in this thread where I gave you a definition if a Ponzi Scheme.

The reality is that I'm paying in, because all benefits are counted as employee compensation by the corporation. However, legally there is no document that says I'm paying 'X' amount to a pension plan. Most places I've worked you aren't even eligible to receive a pension unless you've been there at least 5 years.

There is a document that says what the pension benefit is. If the company isn't allowed to change it by law, then it doesn't help your analogy because the company would have to declare bankruptcy to change it. The government has already changed the SS benefit it pays out a number of times. If a private corporation did that, the executives of the company would all be in jail.


If you compare SS with union pension plans, then that is a different story. Money is taken out of every paycheck and goes into a pension fund. The contribution and the benefit is defined by the contractual relationship between you and your union. If the union violates any of the terms in that contract, it has to declare bankruptcy.

The economics of your pension plan work the same as SS. You pay into it, like SS. Your company has promised a contractual rate of return, like SS. What you pay in supports those who are paid out, like SS. You can't receive benefits until you've contributed for a period of time, like SS.

The difference between your pension and SS is that your pension is invested in a well diversified portfolio whereas SS is invested akin to a government bond fund. SS isn't a good system but its not a Ponzi Scheme b

That the benefit cannot be changed unless it is in bankruptcy is irrelevant. The mere presence of bankruptcy does not make something a Ponzi Scheme.

 

[Discombobulated]

It is not stupid ideas it is a fact.
LBJ was running an expensive war in South East Asia while also attempting to launch social engineering through programs which began with his 'Great Society'. Lacking the means to pay for both, he had the Social Security Trust Funds moved into the general fund. As these funds were removed they were replaced with an IOU and it continues to this very day.

Q1. Which political party took Social Security from the independent trust fund and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?

A1: There has never been any change in the way the Social Security program is financed or the way that Social Security payroll taxes are used by the federal government. The Social Security Trust Fund was created in 1939 as part of the Amendments enacted in that year. From its inception, the Trust Fund has always worked the same way. The Social Security Trust Fund has never been "put into the general fund of the government."
Most likely this question comes from a confusion between the financing of the Social Security program and the way the Social Security Trust Fund is treated in federal budget accounting. Starting in 1969 (due to action by the Johnson Administration in 1968) the transactions to the Trust Fund were included in what is known as the "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget. This is sometimes described by saying that the Social Security Trust Funds are "on-budget." This budget treatment of the Social Security Trust Fund continued until 1990 when the Trust Funds were again taken "off-budget." This means only that they are shown as a separate account in the federal budget. But whether the Trust Funds are "on-budget" or "off-budget" is primarily a question of accounting practices--it has no effect on the actual operations of the Trust Fund itself.
Social Security History

The "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget.
That means they used the Social Security funds for other government programs and it included the funding for the Viet Nam War. After the war it was continually used for other government programs. Before that, the SSI funds was not included a unified budget and congress was not able to use the funds for anything other than just the Social Security program.


During the past 25 years, five presidents, from President Johnson to President Obama and the members of Congress, have participated in the great Social Security scam. All Social Security contributions made by working Americans, except the amount which was needed to pay current retirement benefits, has been funneled into the general fund and used for non-Social Security purposes.
Some like to say that the government just “borrowed” the money during the time period when it was not needed to pay benefits. But borrowing implies repayment, and no provisions for repayment have been made.
The government did not enact future tax increases that would automatically kick in when the Social Security money was needed. Neither did they enact legislation that would end other spending programs once the Social Security money was needed so the money could be transferred to the trust fund.
The government spent the Social Security money, pure and simple, without making any provisions for future repayments. The IOUs in the trust fund are not marketable, and they could not be sold to anyone even for a penny on the dollar.
The Social Security trustees confirmed the worthlessness of the IOUs in the 2009 Social Security Trustees Report with the following words:
“Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.”
In order for Social Security to pay full benefits after 2016, it will be necessary for the government to begin repaying the money it has spent on other things. This will mean increased taxes and/or additional borrowing.
Neither of these is politically popular, and there is no assurance that future politicians will be willing to raise taxes to pay for the irresponsible behavior of past politicians. If the money is not repaid in full, with interest, it will have been stolen by the government from working Americans who paid into the fund.

Read it for yourself in the report
Table of Contents

Since Social Security would be fully funded until at least 2037 if the government had not used the money for other things, the only reason that politicians are advocating cuts in Social Security benefits is the fact that the government does not have the money with which to pay its debt to Social Security.
Given the fact that Section 13301 of the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 made it a violation of federal law to use Social Security revenue for non-Social Security purposes, it is hard to justify using the word “borrow” to refer to any of the Social Security money spent after 1990, even if it is eventually paid back.
It was stolen from the American workers pure and simple by a political accounting tactic.

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

Two: Here is your confusion=
In the early 1980s the Social Security Trust Funds had developed short-term cash flow problems, as a result of the adverse performance of the economy during the "stagflation" of the 1970s. As a stop-gap measure, Congress passed legislation in 1981 to permit inter-fund borrowing among the three Trust Funds (the Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund; the Disability Trust Fund; and the Medicare Trust Fund). This authority was to lapse at the end of 1982. However, the 1983 Amendments extended the inter-fund borrowing authority to the end of 1987. Under the law as amended, all loans would have to be repaid by the end of 1989.

The inter-fund loans were required to be repaid with an amount of interest equal to that which the loaning fund would have earned had it had use of the money during this time. In other words, the borrowing fund was required to make the loaning fund whole at the end of the process.

This authority was used twice, once in November 1982 and once in December 1982. The total amount borrowed was $17.5 billion. The Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund borrowed the money-$5.1 billion from the Disability Trust Fund and $12.4 billion from the Medicare Trust Fund. Repayment began in 1985 and the debt to the Medicare Trust Fund was paid off by January 1986 and the debt to the Disability Trust Fund was liquidated in April 1986.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

This is from 1983-Note that there are four funds listed here and why,
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

Ok?
OK.

Payroll taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Social Security taxes provide benefits for retired workers, the disabled, and the dependents of both. The Medicare tax is used to provide medical benefits for certain individuals when they reach age 65. Workers, retired workers, and the spouses of both are eligible to receive Medicare benefits upon reaching age 65. Federal income taxes are used to provide for national programs such as national defense; veterans and foreign affairs; social programs; physical, human, and community development; law enforcement; and interest on the national debt.
Understanding Taxes - Module 1 Payroll Taxes and Federal Income Tax Withholding

Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government.
There are two general types of such securities:

1. special issues—securities available only to the trust funds; and
2. public issues—securities available to the public (marketable securities).

Today all securities held by the trust funds are special issues, but the funds have held public issues in the past.
Special issue types and properties
There are two types of special issues: short-term certificates of indebtedness and long-term bonds.

• The certificates of indebtedness are issued on a daily basis for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue.
• Special-issue bonds are normally acquired only when special issues of either type mature on June 30. The bonds have maturities ranging from one to fifteen years.

The above properties of special issue securities are summarized in the following table.

Type of special issue	Investment frequency	Maturity
Certificates of indebtedness	Daily	Next June 30
Bonds	June 30	1 to 15 years

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Special issue redemption rules
When special issues need to be redeemed prior to maturity, the securities are redeemed in order of

1. Earliest maturity date;
2. Lowest interest rate for securities with the same maturity date.

Special-issue securities Social Security trust funds

From the Social Security's web site
Social Security History
The law was changed to stop the use of the Trust Funds for any function in the unified budget, including calculations of the deficit. One sub-part of OBRA 1990 was called the Budget Enforcement Act (BEA), and it was this sub-part that specified this change in the law.

Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (OBRA) of 1990
Bill Text - 101st Congress 1989-1990 - THOMAS Library of Congress
EXCLUSION OF SOCIAL SECURITY FROM ALL BUDGETS-

• 
  Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the receipts and disbursements of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund shall not be counted as new budget authority, outlays, receipts, or deficit or surplus for purposes of--

• • 
    (1) the budget of the United States Government as submitted by the President,

• • 
    (2) the congressional budget, or

• • 
    (3) the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985.

• 
  (b) EXCLUSION OF SOCIAL SECURITY FROM CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET- Section 301(a) of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974 is amended by adding at the end the following: `The concurrent resolution shall not include the outlays and revenue totals of the old age, survivors, and disability insurance program established under title II of the Social Security Act or the related provisions of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 in the surplus or deficit totals required by this subsection or in any other surplus or deficit totals required by this title.'.

It means precisely what I said it did.

You evidently didn't understand it.

 

[Disir]

Q1. Which political party took Social Security from the independent trust fund and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?

A1: There has never been any change in the way the Social Security program is financed or the way that Social Security payroll taxes are used by the federal government. The Social Security Trust Fund was created in 1939 as part of the Amendments enacted in that year. From its inception, the Trust Fund has always worked the same way. The Social Security Trust Fund has never been "put into the general fund of the government."
Most likely this question comes from a confusion between the financing of the Social Security program and the way the Social Security Trust Fund is treated in federal budget accounting. Starting in 1969 (due to action by the Johnson Administration in 1968) the transactions to the Trust Fund were included in what is known as the "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget. This is sometimes described by saying that the Social Security Trust Funds are "on-budget." This budget treatment of the Social Security Trust Fund continued until 1990 when the Trust Funds were again taken "off-budget." This means only that they are shown as a separate account in the federal budget. But whether the Trust Funds are "on-budget" or "off-budget" is primarily a question of accounting practices--it has no effect on the actual operations of the Trust Fund itself.
Social Security History

The "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget.
That means they used the Social Security funds for other government programs and it included the funding for the Viet Nam War. After the war it was continually used for other government programs. Before that, the SSI funds was not included a unified budget and congress was not able to use the funds for anything other than just the Social Security program.


During the past 25 years, five presidents, from President Johnson to President Obama and the members of Congress, have participated in the great Social Security scam. All Social Security contributions made by working Americans, except the amount which was needed to pay current retirement benefits, has been funneled into the general fund and used for non-Social Security purposes.
Some like to say that the government just “borrowed” the money during the time period when it was not needed to pay benefits. But borrowing implies repayment, and no provisions for repayment have been made.
The government did not enact future tax increases that would automatically kick in when the Social Security money was needed. Neither did they enact legislation that would end other spending programs once the Social Security money was needed so the money could be transferred to the trust fund.
The government spent the Social Security money, pure and simple, without making any provisions for future repayments. The IOUs in the trust fund are not marketable, and they could not be sold to anyone even for a penny on the dollar.
The Social Security trustees confirmed the worthlessness of the IOUs in the 2009 Social Security Trustees Report with the following words:
“Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.”
In order for Social Security to pay full benefits after 2016, it will be necessary for the government to begin repaying the money it has spent on other things. This will mean increased taxes and/or additional borrowing.
Neither of these is politically popular, and there is no assurance that future politicians will be willing to raise taxes to pay for the irresponsible behavior of past politicians. If the money is not repaid in full, with interest, it will have been stolen by the government from working Americans who paid into the fund.

Read it for yourself in the report
Table of Contents

Since Social Security would be fully funded until at least 2037 if the government had not used the money for other things, the only reason that politicians are advocating cuts in Social Security benefits is the fact that the government does not have the money with which to pay its debt to Social Security.
Given the fact that Section 13301 of the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 made it a violation of federal law to use Social Security revenue for non-Social Security purposes, it is hard to justify using the word “borrow” to refer to any of the Social Security money spent after 1990, even if it is eventually paid back.
It was stolen from the American workers pure and simple by a political accounting tactic.

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

Two: Here is your confusion=
In the early 1980s the Social Security Trust Funds had developed short-term cash flow problems, as a result of the adverse performance of the economy during the "stagflation" of the 1970s. As a stop-gap measure, Congress passed legislation in 1981 to permit inter-fund borrowing among the three Trust Funds (the Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund; the Disability Trust Fund; and the Medicare Trust Fund). This authority was to lapse at the end of 1982. However, the 1983 Amendments extended the inter-fund borrowing authority to the end of 1987. Under the law as amended, all loans would have to be repaid by the end of 1989.

The inter-fund loans were required to be repaid with an amount of interest equal to that which the loaning fund would have earned had it had use of the money during this time. In other words, the borrowing fund was required to make the loaning fund whole at the end of the process.

This authority was used twice, once in November 1982 and once in December 1982. The total amount borrowed was $17.5 billion. The Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund borrowed the money-$5.1 billion from the Disability Trust Fund and $12.4 billion from the Medicare Trust Fund. Repayment began in 1985 and the debt to the Medicare Trust Fund was paid off by January 1986 and the debt to the Disability Trust Fund was liquidated in April 1986.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

This is from 1983-Note that there are four funds listed here and why,
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

Ok?
OK.

Payroll taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Social Security taxes provide benefits for retired workers, the disabled, and the dependents of both. The Medicare tax is used to provide medical benefits for certain individuals when they reach age 65. Workers, retired workers, and the spouses of both are eligible to receive Medicare benefits upon reaching age 65. Federal income taxes are used to provide for national programs such as national defense; veterans and foreign affairs; social programs; physical, human, and community development; law enforcement; and interest on the national debt.
Understanding Taxes - Module 1 Payroll Taxes and Federal Income Tax Withholding

Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government.
There are two general types of such securities:

1. special issues—securities available only to the trust funds; and
2. public issues—securities available to the public (marketable securities).

Today all securities held by the trust funds are special issues, but the funds have held public issues in the past.
Special issue types and properties
There are two types of special issues: short-term certificates of indebtedness and long-term bonds.

• The certificates of indebtedness are issued on a daily basis for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue.
• Special-issue bonds are normally acquired only when special issues of either type mature on June 30. The bonds have maturities ranging from one to fifteen years.

The above properties of special issue securities are summarized in the following table.

Type of special issue	Investment frequency	Maturity
Certificates of indebtedness	Daily	Next June 30
Bonds	June 30	1 to 15 years

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Special issue redemption rules
When special issues need to be redeemed prior to maturity, the securities are redeemed in order of

1. Earliest maturity date;
2. Lowest interest rate for securities with the same maturity date.

Special-issue securities Social Security trust funds

From the Social Security's web site
Social Security History
The law was changed to stop the use of the Trust Funds for any function in the unified budget, including calculations of the deficit. One sub-part of OBRA 1990 was called the Budget Enforcement Act (BEA), and it was this sub-part that specified this change in the law.

Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (OBRA) of 1990
Bill Text - 101st Congress 1989-1990 - THOMAS Library of Congress
EXCLUSION OF SOCIAL SECURITY FROM ALL BUDGETS-

• 
  Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the receipts and disbursements of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund shall not be counted as new budget authority, outlays, receipts, or deficit or surplus for purposes of--

• • 
    (1) the budget of the United States Government as submitted by the President,

• • 
    (2) the congressional budget, or

• • 
    (3) the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985.

• 
  (b) EXCLUSION OF SOCIAL SECURITY FROM CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET- Section 301(a) of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974 is amended by adding at the end the following: `The concurrent resolution shall not include the outlays and revenue totals of the old age, survivors, and disability insurance program established under title II of the Social Security Act or the related provisions of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 in the surplus or deficit totals required by this subsection or in any other surplus or deficit totals required by this title.'.

It means precisely what I said it did.

You evidently didn't understand it.

I understand it just fine.

 

[peach174]

The "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget.
That means they used the Social Security funds for other government programs and it included the funding for the Viet Nam War. After the war it was continually used for other government programs. Before that, the SSI funds was not included a unified budget and congress was not able to use the funds for anything other than just the Social Security program.


During the past 25 years, five presidents, from President Johnson to President Obama and the members of Congress, have participated in the great Social Security scam. All Social Security contributions made by working Americans, except the amount which was needed to pay current retirement benefits, has been funneled into the general fund and used for non-Social Security purposes.
Some like to say that the government just “borrowed” the money during the time period when it was not needed to pay benefits. But borrowing implies repayment, and no provisions for repayment have been made.
The government did not enact future tax increases that would automatically kick in when the Social Security money was needed. Neither did they enact legislation that would end other spending programs once the Social Security money was needed so the money could be transferred to the trust fund.
The government spent the Social Security money, pure and simple, without making any provisions for future repayments. The IOUs in the trust fund are not marketable, and they could not be sold to anyone even for a penny on the dollar.
The Social Security trustees confirmed the worthlessness of the IOUs in the 2009 Social Security Trustees Report with the following words:
“Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public.”
In order for Social Security to pay full benefits after 2016, it will be necessary for the government to begin repaying the money it has spent on other things. This will mean increased taxes and/or additional borrowing.
Neither of these is politically popular, and there is no assurance that future politicians will be willing to raise taxes to pay for the irresponsible behavior of past politicians. If the money is not repaid in full, with interest, it will have been stolen by the government from working Americans who paid into the fund.

Read it for yourself in the report
Table of Contents

Since Social Security would be fully funded until at least 2037 if the government had not used the money for other things, the only reason that politicians are advocating cuts in Social Security benefits is the fact that the government does not have the money with which to pay its debt to Social Security.
Given the fact that Section 13301 of the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 made it a violation of federal law to use Social Security revenue for non-Social Security purposes, it is hard to justify using the word “borrow” to refer to any of the Social Security money spent after 1990, even if it is eventually paid back.
It was stolen from the American workers pure and simple by a political accounting tactic.

I don't think that you understand. The money didn't actually move from the trust fund into the general fund in the way that you think.

Two: Here is your confusion=
In the early 1980s the Social Security Trust Funds had developed short-term cash flow problems, as a result of the adverse performance of the economy during the "stagflation" of the 1970s. As a stop-gap measure, Congress passed legislation in 1981 to permit inter-fund borrowing among the three Trust Funds (the Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund; the Disability Trust Fund; and the Medicare Trust Fund). This authority was to lapse at the end of 1982. However, the 1983 Amendments extended the inter-fund borrowing authority to the end of 1987. Under the law as amended, all loans would have to be repaid by the end of 1989.

The inter-fund loans were required to be repaid with an amount of interest equal to that which the loaning fund would have earned had it had use of the money during this time. In other words, the borrowing fund was required to make the loaning fund whole at the end of the process.

This authority was used twice, once in November 1982 and once in December 1982. The total amount borrowed was $17.5 billion. The Old-Age and Survivors Trust Fund borrowed the money-$5.1 billion from the Disability Trust Fund and $12.4 billion from the Medicare Trust Fund. Repayment began in 1985 and the debt to the Medicare Trust Fund was paid off by January 1986 and the debt to the Disability Trust Fund was liquidated in April 1986.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

This is from 1983-Note that there are four funds listed here and why,
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v46n9/v46n9p13.pdf

Ok?
OK.

Payroll taxes include the Social Security tax and the Medicare tax. Social Security taxes provide benefits for retired workers, the disabled, and the dependents of both. The Medicare tax is used to provide medical benefits for certain individuals when they reach age 65. Workers, retired workers, and the spouses of both are eligible to receive Medicare benefits upon reaching age 65. Federal income taxes are used to provide for national programs such as national defense; veterans and foreign affairs; social programs; physical, human, and community development; law enforcement; and interest on the national debt.
Understanding Taxes - Module 1 Payroll Taxes and Federal Income Tax Withholding

Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government.
There are two general types of such securities:

1. special issues—securities available only to the trust funds; and
2. public issues—securities available to the public (marketable securities).

Today all securities held by the trust funds are special issues, but the funds have held public issues in the past.
Special issue types and properties
There are two types of special issues: short-term certificates of indebtedness and long-term bonds.

• The certificates of indebtedness are issued on a daily basis for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue.
• Special-issue bonds are normally acquired only when special issues of either type mature on June 30. The bonds have maturities ranging from one to fifteen years.

The above properties of special issue securities are summarized in the following table.

Type of special issue	Investment frequency	Maturity
Certificates of indebtedness	Daily	Next June 30
Bonds	June 30	1 to 15 years

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Special issue redemption rules
When special issues need to be redeemed prior to maturity, the securities are redeemed in order of

1. Earliest maturity date;
2. Lowest interest rate for securities with the same maturity date.

Special-issue securities Social Security trust funds

From the Social Security's web site
Social Security History
The law was changed to stop the use of the Trust Funds for any function in the unified budget, including calculations of the deficit. One sub-part of OBRA 1990 was called the Budget Enforcement Act (BEA), and it was this sub-part that specified this change in the law.

Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (OBRA) of 1990
Bill Text - 101st Congress 1989-1990 - THOMAS Library of Congress
EXCLUSION OF SOCIAL SECURITY FROM ALL BUDGETS-

• 
  Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the receipts and disbursements of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund shall not be counted as new budget authority, outlays, receipts, or deficit or surplus for purposes of--

• • 
    (1) the budget of the United States Government as submitted by the President,

• • 
    (2) the congressional budget, or

• • 
    (3) the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985.

• 
  (b) EXCLUSION OF SOCIAL SECURITY FROM CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET- Section 301(a) of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974 is amended by adding at the end the following: `The concurrent resolution shall not include the outlays and revenue totals of the old age, survivors, and disability insurance program established under title II of the Social Security Act or the related provisions of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 in the surplus or deficit totals required by this subsection or in any other surplus or deficit totals required by this title.'.

It means precisely what I said it did.

You evidently didn't understand it.

I understand it just fine.

So then you agree that Dem's moved the SSI funds to the unified budget to pay for other programs.