Bad Kills -- Good Kills. The Double Standard.

[Mr. H.]

My employee chased down an injured bird the other day. He didn't know why it was acting sickly, he only knew that if the state inspector found it dead around our facilities that we would be fined big time. He finished the job and buried it.

When the state allowed open saltwater pits, a thin layer of oil invariably formed on top rendering bat's radar useless (that's my theory anyway). We'd find about a dozen a year floating in that muck.

 

[Saigon]

This is such an interesting OP, because it provides so much insight in to Dernialist thinking - particularly thething we see so often from posters like Westwall -that it is ok to say anything, anything at all, without reference to facts, honesty or common sense.

Hence we see Westwall on this thread claming that the oil industry kills 4,500 birds a year - a figure which may well be out by around 10,000%!

Sure, the basic premise that wind farms kill too many birds is a fair point. Yes, there may be some imbalance in the way bird kills are prosecuted - although I see no evidence of that presented.

But then why did the OP neglect to tell us that wind farms ranks only SEVENTH in causes of bird death (involving human causes?)

Why does the OP have nothing to say about industries that kill far more birds than wind farms do?

Why does the OP support forms of energy that kill more birds than wind farms do?

And in particular, why does the OP refuse to acknowledge the progress made by wind farms to protect bird life?

It's an OP that starts on the corner of Dishonest and Hypocrisy Streets, before making a sharp left onto Nonsense.

 

[Saigon]

Not only do they kill birds, they are eye sores. Hundreds of them all along the Columbia River. Not very pretty.

How pretty are coal mines or nuclear power stations?

 

[Saigon]

It's always fascinating when an OP can't muster an intelligent response to his own thread.

I'll ask again - if wind farm rank SEVENTH on the list of causes of bird death, why are you ignoring the Top Six?

as has been explained, in the op, those 6 are getting fined and sued by the government.

wind is getting a free pass

Actually, the OP does not say that at all. The OP only mentions power lines and oil companies. It is possible that some wind farms should have been prosecuted, but we'd need to know why they weren't, wouldn't we?

Massive numbers of birds are killed by planes/aviation, by nuclear power stations, cars and trucks. Thus far, the OP has not addressed those points.

Thus he accuses the courts of selective bias, while indulging in selective bias himself.

 

[Mr. H.]

This is such an interesting OP, because it provides so much insight in to Dernialist thinking - particularly thething we see so often from posters like Westwall -that it is ok to say anything, anything at all, without reference to facts, honesty or common sense.

Hence we see Westwall on this thread claming that the oil industry kills 4,500 birds a year - a figure which may well be out by around 10,000%!

Sure, the basic premise that wind farms kill too many birds is a fair point. Yes, there may be some imbalance in the way bird kills are prosecuted - although I see no evidence of that presented.

But then why did the OP neglect to tell us that wind farms ranks only SEVENTH in causes of bird death (involving human causes?)

Why does the OP have nothing to say about industries that kill far more birds than wind farms do?

Why does the OP support forms of energy that kill more birds than wind farms do?

And in particular, why does the OP refuse to acknowledge the progress made by wind farms to protect bird life?

It's an OP that starts on the corner of Dishonest and Hypocrisy Streets, before making a sharp left onto Nonsense.

Reference that 10,000% claim. Or is that just a dishonest hypocritical statement.

 

[flacaltenn]

This is such an interesting OP, because it provides so much insight in to Dernialist thinking - particularly thething we see so often from posters like Westwall -that it is ok to say anything, anything at all, without reference to facts, honesty or common sense.

Hence we see Westwall on this thread claming that the oil industry kills 4,500 birds a year - a figure which may well be out by around 10,000%!

Sure, the basic premise that wind farms kill too many birds is a fair point. Yes, there may be some imbalance in the way bird kills are prosecuted - although I see no evidence of that presented.

But then why did the OP neglect to tell us that wind farms ranks only SEVENTH in causes of bird death (involving human causes?)

Why does the OP have nothing to say about industries that kill far more birds than wind farms do?

Why does the OP support forms of energy that kill more birds than wind farms do?

And in particular, why does the OP refuse to acknowledge the progress made by wind farms to protect bird life?

It's an OP that starts on the corner of Dishonest and Hypocrisy Streets, before making a sharp left onto Nonsense.

Because this thread is about how the Obama Admin is COVERING UP bird deaths at Wind Farms while continuing to prosecute OTHER energy providers for the deaths they cause.

Whining like that ain't journalism..

And neglecting the absolute carnage of raptors within a limited static habitat means that you are also not an environmentalist of any conviction.. Or you don't understand the diff between raptors and birds in general..

THIS THREAD is on hypocrisy street all right. It's exactly where you live..
At the corner of Hypocrisy and Denial..

You got no nuts if you don't go back to post ----- http://www.usmessageboard.com/7674254-post36.html

..... and explain to us all how that is not the ultimate in hypocrisy and deception for political motives..

 

[Saigon]

Mr H -

The 10,000% figure is a joke.

I have no idea how many birds are killed each year by the oil industry.

I posted a link earlier which claimed that several millions birds have been in Canada as a result of oil tar sands and resulting habitat destruction. Given that is one country, I think my figure was probably on the low side by several zeros.

 

[Saigon]

And neglecting the absolute carnage of raptors within a limited static habitat means that you are also not an environmentalist of any conviction.. Or you don't understand the diff between raptors and birds in general..

How many raptors, eagles etc were killed last year by:

a) oil

b) nuclear

c) planes

d) cars

Do you think it would make sense to pursue all major causes of raptor demise even handedly and objectively?

Or would you prefer to single out wind energy, the only industry to make significant progress in bird preservation?

 

[flacaltenn]

And neglecting the absolute carnage of raptors within a limited static habitat means that you are also not an environmentalist of any conviction.. Or you don't understand the diff between raptors and birds in general..

How many raptors, eagles etc were killed last year by:

a) oil

b) nuclear

c) planes

d) cars

Do you think it would make sense to pursue all major causes of raptor demise even handedly and objectively?

Or would you prefer to single out wind energy, the only industry to make significant progress in bird preservation?

If you had READ THE OP --- you wouldn't have looked so silly asking those questions you just asked.. Too late --- you look stupid..

Why don't YOU answer those questions for us?

(((I'd STRONGLY suggest you go read the OP article FIRST --- So you don't come off stupid headed for moron)))

 

[Mr. H.]

Mr H -

The 10,000% figure is a joke.

I have no idea how many birds are killed each year by the oil industry.

I posted a link earlier which claimed that several millions birds have been in Canada as a result of oil tar sands and resulting habitat destruction. Given that is one country, I think my figure was probably on the low side by several zeros.

That would make it something like a gozillion birds. Wowzers.

Your bullshit compounds constantly.

 

[Saigon]

Mr H -

I posted a link earlier which claimed that if the world converted tomorrow from oil to wind, it would save the lives of 14 million birds per year.

Westwall claims oil kills 4,500 birds per year.

I'm looking forward to you addressing his bullshit, however, I suspect you'll give it a free pass.

 

[flacaltenn]

Mr H -

I posted a link earlier which claimed that if the world converted tomorrow from oil to wind, it would save the lives of 14 million birds per year.

Westwall claims oil kills 4,500 birds per year.

I'm looking forward to you addressing his bullshit, however, I suspect you'll give it a free pass.

YOU --- posted numbers that traced back to the AWEA.. You know who they are? (REQUIRES AN ANSWER)
If I attacked the wind industry with numbers from the American Coal Institute --- what would you say??? (REQUIRES AN ANSWER)


And the chart you posted said no such thing about "saving 14million birds a year if the world converted from oil to wind..

FIRST OFF -- OIL DOESN'T POWER THE GRID.. THere is no such thing as "converting from oil to wind".... Not in any meaningful scenario.. (REQUIRES AN ANSWER)


You've shifting from lying and deceit to making chit up... (No ANSWER required or needed)

 

[Saigon]

Flac -

If you'd like to research how many birds actually die as a result of oil each year, I'd be delighted to see them. It would make an interesting thread.

I took the idea of 'converting from oil to wind' as hypoethitical, rather than literal.

 

[Saigon]

Really? How many animals were killed by Big Oil worldwide last year? Answer 4,500

How many birds and bats were killed by windmills last year? Answer, 1 MILLION in the US alone.

What EXACTLY is being done to mitigate this? Tell us.

No sign of Westwall demonstrating his famous honesty by correcting this hilarious gaffe, then.

What is less likely - that someone with a PhD in sciences would:

a) claim oil killed 4,500 birds per year

b) not be able to admit his error when it was pointed out to him.

If you ever want to see dishonest posting - Westwall's post is a good start.

 

[mamooth]

The Audubon Society strongly supports wind power. Looks like they must hate birds too, at least according to the denialists here.

Wind Power Overview | National Audubon Society Policy Issues & Action

Analysis shows more wind power means _fewer_ birds killed.

Do wind farms and wind turbines kill birds | Carbon Lighthouse
---
The results were clear: it turns out wind farms kill ten times fewer birds than fossil fuel power plants. Specifically, wind farms and nuclear power plants kill only 0.3 to 0.4 birds per GWh of electricity generated, while oil, gas, and coal power plants kill 5.4 birds per GWh of electricity generated.
---

Thus, by the definitions of the denialists, every denialist here admits to being a bird-butchering hypocrite. Glad we cleared that up. What's our next topic?

 

[FA_Q2]

The Audubon Society strongly supports wind power. Looks like they must hate birds too, at least according to the denialists here.

Wind Power Overview | National Audubon Society Policy Issues & Action

Analysis shows more wind power means _fewer_ birds killed.

Do wind farms and wind turbines kill birds | Carbon Lighthouse
---
The results were clear: it turns out wind farms kill ten times fewer birds than fossil fuel power plants. Specifically, wind farms and nuclear power plants kill only 0.3 to 0.4 birds per GWh of electricity generated, while oil, gas, and coal power plants kill 5.4 birds per GWh of electricity generated.
---

Thus, by the definitions of the denialists, every denialist here admits to being a bird-butchering hypocrite. Glad we cleared that up. What's our next topic?

Actually, the OP never claimed that windmills kill more birds at all. The OP made a very clear charge: the negative effects of windmills on birds is ignored because of political bias where the government fines other sources of bird killers including the oil that you cite.

It seems that over the last 4 pages all that has been established is that many of the posters here do not want to deal with that fact let alone bother refuting it.

 

[flacaltenn]

Flac -

If you'd like to research how many birds actually die as a result of oil each year, I'd be delighted to see them. It would make an interesting thread.

I took the idea of 'converting from oil to wind' as hypoethitical, rather than literal.

Then why did you lie to Mr. H. when you claimed that ----

I posted a link earlier which claimed that if the world converted tomorrow from oil to wind, it would save the lives of 14 million birds per year.

No One with an ounce or gram of understanding energy markets would have offered a non-existent choice like that one..

I don't have time for deceit and lies..

 

[flacaltenn]

The Audubon Society strongly supports wind power. Looks like they must hate birds too, at least according to the denialists here.

Wind Power Overview | National Audubon Society Policy Issues & Action

Analysis shows more wind power means _fewer_ birds killed.

Do wind farms and wind turbines kill birds | Carbon Lighthouse
---
The results were clear: it turns out wind farms kill ten times fewer birds than fossil fuel power plants. Specifically, wind farms and nuclear power plants kill only 0.3 to 0.4 birds per GWh of electricity generated, while oil, gas, and coal power plants kill 5.4 birds per GWh of electricity generated.
---

Thus, by the definitions of the denialists, every denialist here admits to being a bird-butchering hypocrite. Glad we cleared that up. What's our next topic?

I got an idea --- why don't we go kill some dolphins with tidal turbines.. Eh? Sound like fun?

CarbonLightHouse eh? Wouldn't be any hanky-panky goin on there...

Get some real numbers --- we'll chat..

 

[mamooth]

It's rumored that the denialists here now survive solely on a diet of fresh bird blood, which is why they're so into killing birds.

And that statement is less ridiculous than most of this thread.

 

[flacaltenn]

It's rumored that the denialists here now survive solely on a diet of fresh bird blood, which is why they're so into killing birds.

And that statement is less ridiculous than most of this thread.

So --- you have NO PROBLEM with the Obama Admin telling Wind Park owners to cover slaughtered bodies with tarps and then sending a Fed CSI unit to surrepticiously remove the body and hide the statistics?

At the same time that they are ACTIVELY PROSECUTING CASES against other type of energy operators and handing out fines for the same offenses ?

That's the topic of the thread...