Bad Kills -- Good Kills. The Double Standard.

[flacaltenn]

Note: Really don't want to get into an umpteenth p-match over feral cats or numbers here.

Just want to concentrate on the IMMENSE HYPOCRISY outlined in the OP article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/14/wind-farms-bird-deaths_n_32706
91.html

CONVERSE COUNTY, Wyo. (AP) — It happens about once a month here, on the
barren foothills of one of America's green-energy boomtowns: A soaring
golden eagle slams into a wind farm's spinning turbine and falls,
mangled and lifeless, to the ground.

Killing these iconic birds is not just an irreplaceable loss for a
vulnerable species. It's also a federal crime, a charge that the Obama
administration has used to prosecute oil companies when birds drown in
their waste pits, and power companies when birds are electrocuted by
their power lines.

But the administration has never fined or prosecuted a wind-energy
company, even those that flout the law repeatedly. Instead, the
government is shielding the industry from liability and helping keep
the scope of the deaths secret.

More than 573,000 birds are killed by the country's wind farms each
year, including 83,000 hunting birds such as hawks, falcons and eagles,
according to an estimate published in March in the peer-reviewed
Wildlife Society Bulletin.

Getting precise figures is impossible because many companies aren't
required to disclose how many birds they kill. And when they do,
experts say, the data can be unreliable.

When companies voluntarily report deaths, the Obama administration in
many cases refuses to make the information public, saying it belongs to
the energy companies or that revealing it would expose trade secrets or
implicate ongoing enforcement investigations.

Nearly all the birds being killed are protected under federal
environmental laws, which prosecutors have used to generate tens of
millions of dollars in fines and settlements from businesses, including
oil and gas companies, over the past five years.

"We are all responsible for protecting our wildlife, even the largest
of corporations," Colorado U.S. Attorney David M. Gaouette said in 2009
when announcing Exxon Mobil had pleaded guilty and would pay $600,000
for killing 85 birds in five states, including Wyoming.

Note -- There's a lot of spinning and excuse making out there. We see it every week on this forum. But note the 1st line of this article. A raptor a week --- living in proximity to a large wind farm --- IS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO DISMANTLE a local population of those birds in a very few years.

Don't care how many hawks there are in the US.. I care that for 20 sq miles -- you are creating a hawk-free zone with this carnage. YOU ARE dimishing their habitat in a very meaningful way...

 

[westwall]

Yep, these people are no environmentalists.

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm SHOCKED... shocked i tell ya... That nobody is defending the EPA and Obama here...

 

[Saigon]

I think everyone agrees that it is a problem.

I think everyone (apart from the OP) also knows that a lot of work has been done on this, and that solutions are being trialled as we speak.

It's not the first time Flac's intel has come from 1976.

 

[westwall]

I think everyone agrees that it is a problem.

I think everyone (apart from the OP) also knows that a lot of work has been done on this, and that solutions are being trialled as we speak.

It's not the first time Flac's intel has come from 1976.

Really? How many animals were killed by Big Oil worldwide last year? Answer 4,500

How many birds and bats were killed by windmills last year? Answer, 1 MILLION in the US alone.

What EXACTLY is being done to mitigate this? Tell us.

 

[Saigon]

I'm also a little curious as to why the OP isn't campaigning against power lines....given that:


Associated bird deaths per year (U.S.)

Feral and domestic cats Hundreds of millions [source: AWEA]

Power lines 130 million -- 174 million [source: AWEA]

Windows (residential and commercial) 100 million -- 1 billion [source: TreeHugger]

Pesticides 70 million [source: AWEA]

Automobiles 60 million -- 80 million [source: AWEA]

Lighted communication towers 40 million -- 50 million [source: AWEA]

Wind turbines 10,000 -- 40,000 [source: ABC]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/wind-turbine-kill-birds.htm

 

[Saigon]

Really? How many animals were killed by Big Oil worldwide last year? Answer 4,500

You have to laugh, don't you?

Honestly, what a silly little child you are.

This sites suggests losses in the millions in Canada alone: http://www.naturecanada.ca/enews_jan09_tarsands.asp

You might also consider:

A study by Benjamin K. Sovacool, Energy Governance Program, Centre on Asia and Globalisation, Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy, National University of Singapore, in 2008 suggests that if it were possible to replace all fossil fuel generation world-wide with wind turbines, almost 14 million fewer avian mortalities would occur annually due to human causes. This study did a broad assessment of anthropogenic causes of avian mortality and brought together many studies on deaths due to wind energy, fossil fuel energy and nuclear energy. It found that Wind farms and nuclear power stations are responsible each for between 0.3 and 0.4 fatalities per gigawatt-hour (GWh) of electricity while fossil-fueled power stations are responsible for about 5.2 fatalities per GWh. While the study did not assess bat mortality due to various forms of energy, it is not unreasonable to assume a similar ratio of mortality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_wind_power

 

[Papageorgio]

So can anyone answer why certain types of illegal bird kills are prosecuted and others are not?

 

[Saigon]

So can anyone answer why certain types of illegal bird kills are prosecuted and others are not?

In the case of feral cats...who would you prosecute?

In the case of powerlines, planes, nuclear stations and windfarms I tend to agree with you, but I think its more important that each industry make real progress in minimising the numbers of birds killed, really.

A lot of work is being done on that with wind farms, but my guess is they are a year or two away from a commercial solution. I understand sonar is one method being used to 'redirect' birds/bats.

 

[flacaltenn]

Note: Really don't want to get into an umpteenth p-match over feral cats or numbers here.

Just want to concentrate on the IMMENSE HYPOCRISY outlined in the OP article.

Wind Farm Bird Deaths Stir Concerns In The U.S.


CONVERSE COUNTY, Wyo. (AP) — It happens about once a month here, on the
barren foothills of one of America's green-energy boomtowns: A soaring
golden eagle slams into a wind farm's spinning turbine and falls,
mangled and lifeless, to the ground.

Fixed the link in the OP. Don't know why I couldn't edit it there anymore...

Please also read the last paragraphs about Fed complicity in covering up any raptor deaths.
How a Federal agent arrives to recover the body.. No joke...

 

[PredFan]

I'm also a little curious as to why the OP isn't campaigning against power lines....given that:


Associated bird deaths per year (U.S.)

Feral and domestic cats Hundreds of millions [source: AWEA]

Power lines 130 million -- 174 million [source: AWEA]

Windows (residential and commercial) 100 million -- 1 billion [source: TreeHugger]

Pesticides 70 million [source: AWEA]

Automobiles 60 million -- 80 million [source: AWEA]

Lighted communication towers 40 million -- 50 million [source: AWEA]

Wind turbines 10,000 -- 40,000 [source: ABC]

HowStuffWorks "Do wind turbines kill birds?"

It's probably because the OP isn't claiming to be an environmentalist.

Really? Are you paying attention at all?

 

[westwall]

So can anyone answer why certain types of illegal bird kills are prosecuted and others are not?

In the case of feral cats...who would you prosecute?

In the case of powerlines, planes, nuclear stations and windfarms I tend to agree with you, but I think its more important that each industry make real progress in minimising the numbers of birds killed, really.

A lot of work is being done on that with wind farms, but my guess is they are a year or two away from a commercial solution. I understand sonar is one method being used to 'redirect' birds/bats.

How about prosecuting the windfarms who we KNOW are doing it? Oh, I see they give huge paybacks to the Dems so they are exempt. I see. So in other words if we just pay enough graft and corruption money then ANYONE can kill ANY critter and that's OK.

OK, got it!

 

[flacaltenn]

I think everyone agrees that it is a problem.

I think everyone (apart from the OP) also knows that a lot of work has been done on this, and that solutions are being trialled as we speak.

It's not the first time Flac's intel has come from 1976.

I need to know what you meant by that last line. Are you LYING AGAIN???

The article is about the Obama Admin prosecuting other energy companies to the FULL EXTENT of the law and SHIELDING wind companies from liability in a super hypocrital and clandestine fashion..

It's abundantly clear that you are not an environmentalist. You are an Eco-Fraud using the environment as a tool to achieve your fantasies..

 

[Wry Catcher]

I think everyone agrees that it is a problem.

I think everyone (apart from the OP) also knows that a lot of work has been done on this, and that solutions are being trialled as we speak.

It's not the first time Flac's intel has come from 1976.

We have many wind farms in the Bay Area and the killing of birds was in the news years ago. Today's 'windmills' have larger props and move very slowly which has markedly reduced the number of kills. All a result of Government Regulation.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Note: Really don't want to get into an umpteenth p-match over feral cats or numbers here.

Just want to concentrate on the IMMENSE HYPOCRISY outlined in the OP article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/14/wind-farms-bird-deaths_n_32706
91.html

CONVERSE COUNTY, Wyo. (AP) — It happens about once a month here, on the
barren foothills of one of America's green-energy boomtowns: A soaring
golden eagle slams into a wind farm's spinning turbine and falls,
mangled and lifeless, to the ground.

Killing these iconic birds is not just an irreplaceable loss for a
vulnerable species. It's also a federal crime, a charge that the Obama
administration has used to prosecute oil companies when birds drown in
their waste pits, and power companies when birds are electrocuted by
their power lines.

But the administration has never fined or prosecuted a wind-energy
company, even those that flout the law repeatedly. Instead, the
government is shielding the industry from liability and helping keep
the scope of the deaths secret.

More than 573,000 birds are killed by the country's wind farms each
year, including 83,000 hunting birds such as hawks, falcons and eagles,
according to an estimate published in March in the peer-reviewed
Wildlife Society Bulletin.

Getting precise figures is impossible because many companies aren't
required to disclose how many birds they kill. And when they do,
experts say, the data can be unreliable.

When companies voluntarily report deaths, the Obama administration in
many cases refuses to make the information public, saying it belongs to
the energy companies or that revealing it would expose trade secrets or
implicate ongoing enforcement investigations.

Nearly all the birds being killed are protected under federal
environmental laws, which prosecutors have used to generate tens of
millions of dollars in fines and settlements from businesses, including
oil and gas companies, over the past five years.

"We are all responsible for protecting our wildlife, even the largest
of corporations," Colorado U.S. Attorney David M. Gaouette said in 2009
when announcing Exxon Mobil had pleaded guilty and would pay $600,000
for killing 85 birds in five states, including Wyoming.

Note -- There's a lot of spinning and excuse making out there. We see it every week on this forum. But note the 1st line of this article. A raptor a week --- living in proximity to a large wind farm --- IS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO DISMANTLE a local population of those birds in a very few years.

Don't care how many hawks there are in the US.. I care that for 20 sq miles -- you are creating a hawk-free zone with this carnage. YOU ARE dimishing their habitat in a very meaningful way...

It's the standard double standard.

There is no such thing as green energy. If liberals actually paid any attention, at all, they would know nuclear is the best and safest source out there.

 

[Saigon]

Flac -

What I mean is that your information is hopelessly outdated and your thread ridiculously skewed.

I have already said that the numbers of bird deaths on windfarms are an issue,and something that energy companies need to take into consideration when evaluating wind.

However, wind farms are ranked SEVENTH on the list of bird deaths caused by mankind - and you seem to have no problem with the first six.

Just want to concentrate on the IMMENSE HYPOCRISY outlined in the OP article.

So you thought immene hypocrisy was the best way to do that?

 

[whitehall]

The freaking warmer hypocrites ignore the deaths of endangered migratory birds as well as the toxic stuff that goes into the building of electric cars and solar panels. It's nothing but an extortion scam.

 

[Saigon]

There is no such thing as green energy. If liberals actually paid any attention, at all, they would know nuclear is the best and safest source out there.

Which is why many liberals support nuclear.

Not all conservatives do, though.

As soon as you try to understand energy using the old left/right divide, you are lost. It simply is not that black/white.

 

[flacaltenn]

So can anyone answer why certain types of illegal bird kills are prosecuted and others are not?

In the case of feral cats...who would you prosecute?

In the case of powerlines, planes, nuclear stations and windfarms I tend to agree with you, but I think its more important that each industry make real progress in minimising the numbers of birds killed, really.

A lot of work is being done on that with wind farms, but my guess is they are a year or two away from a commercial solution. I understand sonar is one method being used to 'redirect' birds/bats.

This is not about "feral cats". Feral cats don't prey on Eagles, Hawks and Falcons and Owls..

Eagles, hawks, and falcons prey on feral cats.

It is also not about songbirds and migratory birds that do not stake out constant territory..
It's about species that largely STAY PUT and can be decimated and lose a LOT of habitat because of local windfarms..

The excuse-making and ignoring the Admin hypocrisy uncovered in this article just makes those arguments look silly..

 

[Two Thumbs]

I think everyone agrees that it is a problem.

I think everyone (apart from the OP) also knows that a lot of work has been done on this, and that solutions are being trialled as we speak.

It's not the first time Flac's intel has come from 1976.

We have many wind farms in the Bay Area and the killing of birds was in the news years ago. Today's 'windmills' have larger props and move very slowly which has markedly reduced the number of kills. All a result of Government Regulation.

so they are still killing and getting away with multiple crimes.

and the government knows that it is intentionally committing discrimination.


do you support this illegal activity?