Awesome to Be Catholic

[California Girl]

The only sin I thought that got you on the express train to Hell was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It's been a while, as I said, but as a kid I was always afraid of lightening striking at the time I used His name in vain.

Anyway, I thought the other stuff got you into Purgatory, with cumulative time for sins. So, you had to depend on the Communion of the Holy Saints for a ticket out of there.

Anyway, my flashbacks are not always accurate, for sure.

People really don't understand Catholicism at all.... from all the crap that gets posted about it on here.

It's actually pretty damned hard to get an express ride to Hell... Jesus said "whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin." (Mark, 3:29)... so yea, that's a biggie.

Venial sins are ones that do not require time in Purgatory... Mortal ones.... you gotta do some time, unless one repents before dying... it's all very tricky.... but it makes life as a Catholic interesting.

Yup. I remember that there were a lot of rules and details. I remembered what I had to for the time, then practiced it cuz I had to, then when Mom and Dad gave me a choice, I was outta there. Then I forgot most of it - data dump.

No offense. Just not for me.

No offense taken. I'm cool with personal decisions... I will carry on praying for ya, though.... just because I like to include you.... When I get to heaven, I'll put you down as my +1.

 

[Si modo]

People really don't understand Catholicism at all.... from all the crap that gets posted about it on here.

It's actually pretty damned hard to get an express ride to Hell... Jesus said "whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin." (Mark, 3:29)... so yea, that's a biggie.

Venial sins are ones that do not require time in Purgatory... Mortal ones.... you gotta do some time, unless one repents before dying... it's all very tricky.... but it makes life as a Catholic interesting.

Yup. I remember that there were a lot of rules and details. I remembered what I had to for the time, then practiced it cuz I had to, then when Mom and Dad gave me a choice, I was outta there. Then I forgot most of it - data dump.

No offense. Just not for me.

No offense taken. I'm cool with personal decisions... I will carry on praying for ya, though.... just because I like to include you.... When I get to heaven, I'll put you down as my +1.

Awesome! Thanks! While you're in Heaven, I'll be partying with the crowd in Purgatory for centuries on end.

C'mon, fess up...you just KNOW all the fun folks are going to Purgatory first.

 

[California Girl]

Yup. I remember that there were a lot of rules and details. I remembered what I had to for the time, then practiced it cuz I had to, then when Mom and Dad gave me a choice, I was outta there. Then I forgot most of it - data dump.

No offense. Just not for me.

No offense taken. I'm cool with personal decisions... I will carry on praying for ya, though.... just because I like to include you.... When I get to heaven, I'll put you down as my +1.

Awesome! Thanks! While you're in Heaven, I'll be partying with the crowd in Purgatory for centuries on end.

C'mon, fess up...you just KNOW all the fun folks are going to Purgatory first.

In fairness, I absolutely expect to be doing some serious time there myself. In fact, I'd be disappointed if I didn't. I pride myself on my ability to seek forgiveness rather than permission.

 

[geauxtohell]

Hence the Church disapproves of the DP. I personally don't have a major issue with the DP - I have issues as to how it is used in the US. Contrary to popular belief, Catholics are usually quite capable of thinking for themselves.... on any and every issue. The fact remains, the DP is not a doctrinal issue.... therefore, Catholics are not obliged to follow the Church's policy.... we are required to follow it's doctrines.... otherwise, there really is no point in calling oneself a Catholic.

I can understand that this may be above your intellectual pay grade, but there is jack shit I can do about your intellect.

I do it all the time, but it's still funny in the context of telling another poster they are stupid.

So Catholics are able to think for themselves, except when it comes to birth control, then it's ver boten?

Nice..

Depends on the 'birth control', contraception is a doctrinal issue... but it is a venial sin (or forgivable if you prefer).... abortion is a mortal sin.... it's a big, big, big no no to Catholics.

With contraception.... the Church leaves the decision to the individual. Many Catholics use birth control... the Church is aware of, and accepts that. It's not a huge issue - unless you expect the Church to pay for the birth control.... that, it cannot do. Because it is against our religion.

The arguement of "I don't have to pay my taxes, because the money funds X which is an affront to Y, my religion" has never held up in court. For individuals, it won't hold up this time. For employers, it is doubtful that this will be deemed as a 1st amendment issue. At any rate, unless you are a catholic employer, you can't rightfully say that your rights are being infringed upon.

At any rate, you are, apparently, pro life lite. You don't buy the whole sandwhich of being against war and the DP.

 

[Avatar4321]

I don't have "my views" on my religion.
Catholics are either all in, or they're not all in.
No picking and choosing individually what's right/what's not.
You're not in a position to judge ANY Catholic, as you're ignorant of what it is we believe in. But keep trying. Maybe you'll learn something along the way.

I don't think that many are necessarily picking and choosing individually what's right and what's wrong. I think there are alot of people in the world, catholic or otherwise, who are completely ignorant of what their religion teaches and their responsibilities to God, themselves, their family, and the community. Some also know and fall short.

I think this is probably prevelant among American Catholics, because i find that Americans in recent years have unfortunately been very ignorant of their faith and been swayed by the media and the indoctrination of the education system to think things of their faith without knowing for themselves.

That's why I think it's important for all of us to study the scriptures and teachings of our faith daily so that we can look at our own lives and find where we need to repent and do better.

For example, in my own life, my faith teaches me the importance of being honest and kind. I have a tendency to be sarcastic. And as I've thought about it sarcasm tends to be both dishonest and unkind to people. It also is a symptom of the sin of pride. I've personally been working at eliminating sarcasm from my speech. But it's not an easy task. I have the standard but to this point Im not living it where I should.

Is this the greatest sin in the world? No. But I dont want any sin in my life. I want to actually live my faith. But I am not naive enough to think everyone thinks the way I do. To some people, religion just isn't that important to them even if they profess faith. I couldn't answer why.

The way I see it is we are all walking along the path at different rates and at different places. That's why we need to be able to forgive one another and treat each other with kindness and mercy. Because when it's all over, we are heading toward the same place if we are lucky.

 

[Avatar4321]

No one ever approves of war(except those who want to control and rule over everyone). War is sometimes necessary.
Would you rather have evil people ruling this world? Like the Hitler types?
We have a right to wipe out the evil types of this world.
Jesus is coming back some day with his army to wipe out the evil in this world.

I agree. I think we should start by wiping out the evil in our hearts and minds.

 

[Avatar4321]

People do approve of war, that's just denying reality to say they don't. Even if war is necessary, i don't see any grey area in the commandment about killing. I'd need to see how Jesus defines evil, and him approving of killing those he deems evil in order for me to think he sides with how you want foreign policy to be administered.

The commandment more accurately translates "Thou shalt not murder." Killing and murder are different things. There have always been exceptions. Those made for war and self defense.

If you want to understand Jesus's view of things, there are two simple things you can do: Study the scriptures and Ask the Father.

 

[Warrior102]

CalGirl I'll ask you this since I know the OP can't give a rational response, but how can catholics approve of a war? Even if they view the war is just, all wars have innocent civilians including children killed in them, which breaks one of the 10 commandments, so shouldn't that mean all catholics should oppose all wars?

No, it's a question of conscience. Vast numbers of Catholics serve in our military and do so without condemnation from the Church. Certainly, Catholics take the commandment 'thou shalt not kill' very seriously. For example, the Irish Republican Army (the IRA) were excommunicated en mass from the Church. You cannot be a member of the IRA and a Catholic. Why? Because the IRA deliberately murdered civilians. However, as I said, Catholics serve in the military without any issue. It is context. We cannot - as a matter of faith - murder others... including unborn children - hence our belief that abortion is a mortal sin. Mortal sins are not forgivable.... only God can forgive.... there is no dispensation from the Church for murder. One cannot atone for it on earth.

I grew up Catholic, and as I became an adult and understood more about the salvation gifted us through Jesus Christ, the less I understood about this part of church doctrine. Since I couldn't explain it or agree with it, I eventually left. It's not in the power of the church or the priest to forgive your sins, there's nothing that I know of in the Bible that supports this. There's only one way for forgiveness, and it's not controled by an human or human entity, other than yourself.

Sure there is.

It's in there.

It's that whole "breathing" thing my friend.

That's where he gave apostles (men) the power to forgive sins.

 

[Warrior102]

For those who need more

Why do non Catholic Christians say that going to confession is wrong? - Yahoo! Answers

 

[del]

CalGirl I'll ask you this since I know the OP can't give a rational response, but how can catholics approve of a war? Even if they view the war is just, all wars have innocent civilians including children killed in them, which breaks one of the 10 commandments, so shouldn't that mean all catholics should oppose all wars?

No one ever approves of war(except those who want to control and rule over everyone). War is sometimes necessary.
Would you rather have evil people ruling this world? Like the Hitler types?
We have a right to wipe out the evil types of this world.
Jesus is coming back some day with his army to wipe out the evil in this world.

Just War Doctrine | Catholic Answers

you should read it sometime

 

[jillian]

Contraception isn't religious doctrine either. Try again!

Yes, it is.

Idiot.

CalGirl I'll ask you this since I know the OP can't give a rational response, but how can catholics approve of a war? Even if they view the war is just, all wars have innocent civilians including children killed in them, which breaks one of the 10 commandments, so shouldn't that mean all catholics should oppose all wars?

if i recall my history properly, they were ok with the crusades. and, in fact, the crusades were called for by a catholic pope.

 

[del]

Actually, the official source is this:

Humanae Vitae

And, it's forgivable. It does not cast one into Hell for eternity. Certain sins do cast one into Hell.... but not contraception. Just the way it is.

However, you were right. I was not paying significant attention and I did misspeak... it's a mortal sin.... therefore, it requires repentance. We're big into repentance in the Church. Repent and you are forgiven. Thus, individual Catholics can - through a personal relationship with God - be forgiven for using it.

One of the best things about being a Catholic.... we know where we stand with our faith. The Church does not shift positions to suit the world, it is what it is. One accepts the faith and lives by it, or one does not.

The only sin I thought that got you on the express train to Hell was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It's been a while, as I said, but as a kid I was always afraid of lightening striking at the time I used His name in vain.

Anyway, I thought the other stuff got you into Purgatory, with cumulative time for sins. So, you had to depend on the Communion of the Holy Saints for a ticket out of there.

Anyway, my flashbacks are not always accurate, for sure.

People really don't understand Catholicism at all.... from all the crap that gets posted about it on here.

It's actually pretty damned hard to get an express ride to Hell... Jesus said "whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin." (Mark, 3:29)... so yea, that's a biggie.

Venial sins are ones that do not require time in Purgatory... Mortal ones.... you gotta do some time, unless one repents before dying... it's all very tricky.... but it makes life as a Catholic interesting.

are you sure you're a catholic, because you have no idea what you're talking about

 

[konradv]

I don't know why you keep posting this. Birth control is a MORTAL sin and no the Church does not leave the decision to the individual.



Birth Control | Catholic Answers

Actually, the official source is this:

Humanae Vitae

And, it's forgivable. It does not cast one into Hell for eternity. Certain sins do cast one into Hell.... but not contraception. Just the way it is.

However, you were right. I was not paying significant attention and I did misspeak... it's a mortal sin.... therefore, it requires repentance. We're big into repentance in the Church. Repent and you are forgiven. Thus, individual Catholics can - through a personal relationship with God - be forgiven for using it.

One of the best things about being a Catholic.... we know where we stand with our faith. The Church does not shift positions to suit the world, it is what it is. One accepts the faith and lives by it, or one does not.

All sins are forgivable, even murder.
That the Catholic church puts birth control in the mortal sin category is laughable.

The Church does not believe that the individual can make their own decisions regarding contraceptives....please quit repeating that as it simply isn't true.

There is one unforgivable sin according to Catholicism, suicide. But that's only because there'd be no time to repent.

 

[konradv]

The DP is not a doctrinal issue. It is a policy of the Church. Individual Catholics are free to either support or not support the Church's official policy. You really need to learn the difference between our religious doctrine and the Church's official policies on issues.

Contraception isn't religious doctrine either. Try again!

Yes, it is.

Idiot.

Contraception DOES NOT trump one of the 10 commandments. If you think the DP is proper, you don't really understand Catholicism and have a lot of nerve trying to educate others.

 

[Ravi]

Actually, the official source is this:

Humanae Vitae

And, it's forgivable. It does not cast one into Hell for eternity. Certain sins do cast one into Hell.... but not contraception. Just the way it is.

However, you were right. I was not paying significant attention and I did misspeak... it's a mortal sin.... therefore, it requires repentance. We're big into repentance in the Church. Repent and you are forgiven. Thus, individual Catholics can - through a personal relationship with God - be forgiven for using it.

One of the best things about being a Catholic.... we know where we stand with our faith. The Church does not shift positions to suit the world, it is what it is. One accepts the faith and lives by it, or one does not.

All sins are forgivable, even murder.
That the Catholic church puts birth control in the mortal sin category is laughable.

The Church does not believe that the individual can make their own decisions regarding contraceptives....please quit repeating that as it simply isn't true.

There is one unforgivable sin according to Catholicism, suicide. But that's only because there'd be no time to repent.

I think it depends on the reason suicide was committed.

 

[konradv]

All sins are forgivable, even murder.
That the Catholic church puts birth control in the mortal sin category is laughable.

The Church does not believe that the individual can make their own decisions regarding contraceptives....please quit repeating that as it simply isn't true.

There is one unforgivable sin according to Catholicism, suicide. But that's only because there'd be no time to repent.

I think it depends on the reason suicide was committed.

Sure, if one is insane, that's an out. Other than that, the nuns were pretty hardline on that point.

 

[Newby]

No, it's a question of conscience. Vast numbers of Catholics serve in our military and do so without condemnation from the Church. Certainly, Catholics take the commandment 'thou shalt not kill' very seriously. For example, the Irish Republican Army (the IRA) were excommunicated en mass from the Church. You cannot be a member of the IRA and a Catholic. Why? Because the IRA deliberately murdered civilians. However, as I said, Catholics serve in the military without any issue. It is context. We cannot - as a matter of faith - murder others... including unborn children - hence our belief that abortion is a mortal sin. Mortal sins are not forgivable.... only God can forgive.... there is no dispensation from the Church for murder. One cannot atone for it on earth.

I grew up Catholic, and as I became an adult and understood more about the salvation gifted us through Jesus Christ, the less I understood about this part of church doctrine. Since I couldn't explain it or agree with it, I eventually left. It's not in the power of the church or the priest to forgive your sins, there's nothing that I know of in the Bible that supports this. There's only one way for forgiveness, and it's not controled by an human or human entity, other than yourself.

Sure there is.

It's in there.

It's that whole "breathing" thing my friend.

That's where he gave apostles (men) the power to forgive sins.

I'd be curious to know what chapter(s)/verse(s) you're referring too here? And I'm asking as an honest question, I've never seen it, nor heard of it. John 14:6 is the most famous example, but there are many others that say the same thing.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I don't know how you get any more clear than that? I can't reconcile verses such as these and others with the catholic beleif that men can forgive the sins of other men in a capacity that deals with salvation.

 

[California Girl]

I grew up Catholic, and as I became an adult and understood more about the salvation gifted us through Jesus Christ, the less I understood about this part of church doctrine. Since I couldn't explain it or agree with it, I eventually left. It's not in the power of the church or the priest to forgive your sins, there's nothing that I know of in the Bible that supports this. There's only one way for forgiveness, and it's not controled by an human or human entity, other than yourself.

Sure there is.

It's in there.

It's that whole "breathing" thing my friend.

That's where he gave apostles (men) the power to forgive sins.

I'd be curious to know what chapter(s)/verse(s) you're referring too here? And I'm asking as an honest question, I've never seen it, nor heard of it. John 14:6 is the most famous example, but there are many others that say the same thing.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I don't know how you get any more clear than that? I can't reconcile verses such as these and others with the catholic beleif that men can forgive the sins of other men in a capacity that deals with salvation.

That's not how the whole 'confession' thing works.

 

[Newby]

Sure there is.

It's in there.

It's that whole "breathing" thing my friend.

That's where he gave apostles (men) the power to forgive sins.

I'd be curious to know what chapter(s)/verse(s) you're referring too here? And I'm asking as an honest question, I've never seen it, nor heard of it. John 14:6 is the most famous example, but there are many others that say the same thing.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I don't know how you get any more clear than that? I can't reconcile verses such as these and others with the catholic beleif that men can forgive the sins of other men in a capacity that deals with salvation.

That's not how the whole 'confession' thing works.

Well, I did a search and a Catholic website listed how they believe 'man' inherited the ability to forgive sin in God's stead and they listed chapters in Matthew, chapters 9 and 28 I believe. But what they're taking, or how they're interpreting those words to come to the conclusion that 'the church' can forgive sin, is very assumptive. I've read those chapters in the past, and I have never come to the conclusion that the church has come too from reading them.

They used Matthew 28:16

16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

They're saying that what I bolded gives the church, or clergy of the church power to forgive sin. What I see is that He is telling them to go and baptize, and it's baptism that 'washes' you clean of sin and allows the holy spirit in. To say that gives the church authority to forgive sin via confession is really stretching it beyond its intent I think.

The other verse they reference is Matthew 9:4.

4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5 Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” 7 Then the man got up and went home. 8 When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.

Here they are saying that the 'Son of Man' represents mankind, I think the Son of Man represents Christ only. The crowd saw him as a man and were awed by his power. I just don't see it plainly suggested that he gave such power to the disciples, who in turn could pass it onto the church, or men of the church.

 

[Ravi]

I'd be curious to know what chapter(s)/verse(s) you're referring too here? And I'm asking as an honest question, I've never seen it, nor heard of it. John 14:6 is the most famous example, but there are many others that say the same thing.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I don't know how you get any more clear than that? I can't reconcile verses such as these and others with the catholic beleif that men can forgive the sins of other men in a capacity that deals with salvation.

That's not how the whole 'confession' thing works.

Well, I did a search and a Catholic website listed how they believe 'man' inherited the ability to forgive sin in God's stead and they listed chapters in Matthew, chapters 9 and 28 I believe. But what they're taking, or how they're interpreting those words to come to the conclusion that 'the church' can forgive sin, is very assumptive. I've read those chapters in the past, and I have never come to the conclusion that the church has come too from reading them.

They used Matthew 28:16

16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

They're saying that what I bolded gives the church, or clergy of the church power to forgive sin. What I see is that He is telling them to go and baptize, and it's baptism that 'washes' you clean of sin and allows the holy spirit in. To say that gives the church authority to forgive sin via confession is really stretching it beyond its intent I think.

The other verse they reference is Matthew 9:4.

4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5 Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” 7 Then the man got up and went home. 8 When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.

Here they are saying that the 'Son of Man' represents mankind, I think the Son of Man represents Christ only. The crowd saw him as a man and were awed by his power. I just don't see it plainly suggested that he gave such power to the disciples, who in turn could pass it onto the church, or men of the church.

God had sent Jesus to forgive sins, but after his resurrection Jesus told the apostles, "‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23). (This is one of only two times we are told that God breathed on man, the other being in Genesis 2:7, when he made man a living soul. It emphasizes how important the establishment of the sacrament of penance was.)

The Forgiveness of Sins | Catholic Answers