Australia expels Israeli diplomat

[rhodescholar]

for myself, i sometimes only net 10 or 20 dollars for an hours work, but you know something, i'm practicing fine arts and being paid for my efforts by an appreciative audience. the money is nothing compared to the spirit involved.

Good for you, we need more people to spend more time on the arts and less on nonsense like credit derivatives...

 

[rhodescholar]

But hey...how about the rest of the story?

The issue is not just "forged passports".

It's forged passports to gain entry into a country to commit murder.

Nations get a tad bit sensitive about that.

What "rest of the story"? What difference does it make, and what makes a person with any brains think that these other nations HAVEN'T been conducting highly illegal/violent missions faking passports?

You're a fucking asshole, you keep trying to move the goalposts, and that's not going to happen. Fuck off moron, grow some character and admit you hate jews.

 

[Marc39]

But hey...how about the rest of the story?

The issue is not just "forged passports".

It's forged passports to gain entry into a country to commit murder.

Nations get a tad bit sensitive about that.

What "rest of the story"? What difference does it make, and what makes a person with any brains think that these other nations HAVEN'T been conducting highly illegal/violent missions faking passports?

You're a fucking asshole, you keep trying to move the goalposts, and that's not going to happen. Fuck off moron, grow some character and admit you hate jews.

Well, the moron chooses to identity as a coyote, of all things. What do you expect?

 

[tommywho70x]

i get upwards of $50/hr to do research and $100/minimum.

you have a point you want to prove, show me the chart.

the rhodes foundation must have relaxed its criteria if you are truly a rhodes scholar.

Then either you haven't spent any time researching the middle east - or if you have you've been badly overpaid.

I also noticed you skipped over my point...

nobody has ever paid me to research the middle east and it frankly is not at the top of my priorities for independant study. on this board, i think i have been clear on my lack of in depth knowledge of the recent history in the region.

i question two things about your point.

the first is to ask what precipitated the attacks?
the other is that i don't exactly buy into the islam connection. is it not possible that the passion of these people can be inflamed by being forced out of their homes by immigrants and their anger has little or nothing to do with their religion?

the israelis are not blameless and i won't even try to say who is more wrong. peace works. war just benefits the people financing it.

 

[tommywho70x]

for myself, i sometimes only net 10 or 20 dollars for an hours work, but you know something, i'm practicing fine arts and being paid for my efforts by an appreciative audience. the money is nothing compared to the spirit involved.

Good for you, we need more people to spend more time on the arts and less on nonsense like credit derivatives...

thanks for the vote of confidence. i'm really a life scientist living in a death culture and was forced to fall back on my creative abilities when the funding got dried up in favor of star wars and i was locked out because of my dissident positions.

i walked from a high-paying executive position in a privately held corporation because i couldn't live with the lying and stealing i had to do every day in the course of my duties.

 

[Marc39]

i get upwards of $50/hr to do research and $100/minimum.

you have a point you want to prove, show me the chart.

the rhodes foundation must have relaxed its criteria if you are truly a rhodes scholar.

Then either you haven't spent any time researching the middle east - or if you have you've been badly overpaid.

I also noticed you skipped over my point...

nobody has ever paid me to research the middle east and it frankly is not at the top of my priorities for independant study. on this board, i think i have been clear on my lack of in depth knowledge of the recent history in the region.

i question two things about your point.

the first is to ask what precipitated the attacks?
the other is that i don't exactly buy into the islam connection. is it not possible that the passion of these people can be inflamed by being forced out of their homes by immigrants and their anger has little or nothing to do with their religion?

the israelis are not blameless and i won't even try to say who is more wrong. peace works. war just benefits the people financing it.

Jews not converting to Islam precipitated the attacks, moron.

Open a history book.

7th century: Muhammad attacks and expels and murders the Jewish Banu Qaynuqa and Banu Nadir tribes and beheads nearly 1,000 Jewish Banu Quraiza in Medina.

Muhammad murders and expels the Jews of Khaybar.

Caliph Umar murders and expels the balance of Jews in all of Arabia.

Now, you're a little less stupid, stupid. But, you still make less money than a plumber

 

[jillian]

nobody has ever paid me to research the middle east and it frankly is not at the top of my priorities for independant study. on this board, i think i have been clear on my lack of in depth knowledge of the recent history in the region.

i question two things about your point.

the first is to ask what precipitated the attacks?
the other is that i don't exactly buy into the islam connection. is it not possible that the passion of these people can be inflamed by being forced out of their homes by immigrants and their anger has little or nothing to do with their religion?

the israelis are not blameless and i won't even try to say who is more wrong. peace works. war just benefits the people financing it.

this is where misinformation and disinformation is so dangerous.

some left by choice at the behest of the grand mufti of jerusalem
some left during the war they started.

that's life. my family left belarus because of pogroms, leaving behind a great deal of property. if i stood on the border of belarus firing missiles, what type of 'sympathy' do you think i'd get? if a bunch of mexicans rallied at the southern border of this country and started bombing texas and so cal, they'd be flattened and no one would blink.

and jews have always been in israel..the 'ownership' of the area was nebulous and was a occupied by britain.

i don't really care about blame. i care about double standards and unreasonable expectations of a group of people because they happen to be jews. jews are liked so much better when they simply die.

heck with that.

 

[tommywho70x]

nobody has ever paid me to research the middle east and it frankly is not at the top of my priorities for independant study. on this board, i think i have been clear on my lack of in depth knowledge of the recent history in the region.

i question two things about your point.

the first is to ask what precipitated the attacks?
the other is that i don't exactly buy into the islam connection. is it not possible that the passion of these people can be inflamed by being forced out of their homes by immigrants and their anger has little or nothing to do with their religion?

the israelis are not blameless and i won't even try to say who is more wrong. peace works. war just benefits the people financing it.

this is where misinformation and disinformation is so dangerous.

some left by choice at the behest of the grand mufti of jerusalem
some left during the war they started.

that's life. my family left belarus because of pogroms, leaving behind a great deal of property. if i stood on the border of belarus firing missiles, what type of 'sympathy' do you think i'd get? if a bunch of mexicans rallied at the southern border of this country and started bombing texas and so cal, they'd be flattened and no one would blink.

and jews have always been in israel..the 'ownership' of the area was nebulous and was a occupied by britain.

i don't really care about blame. i care about double standards and unreasonable expectations of a group of people because they happen to be jews. jews are liked so much better when they simply die.

heck with that.

there was only my great-grandfather left to leave rumania.

we are levites, so we never had any claims to the land, which adds to my ambivalence over even getting behind the validity of my cousin's claims to their right to statehood as a jewish state.

i certainly could never support the idea that jews deserve their own homeland to the exclusion of arabs who have occupied adjacent lands for just as long.

the idea of jews as this mighty army horrifies me.

it does not look to me to be fulfilling the covenant of unconditional love.

 

[jillian]

nobody has ever paid me to research the middle east and it frankly is not at the top of my priorities for independant study. on this board, i think i have been clear on my lack of in depth knowledge of the recent history in the region.

i question two things about your point.

the first is to ask what precipitated the attacks?
the other is that i don't exactly buy into the islam connection. is it not possible that the passion of these people can be inflamed by being forced out of their homes by immigrants and their anger has little or nothing to do with their religion?

the israelis are not blameless and i won't even try to say who is more wrong. peace works. war just benefits the people financing it.

this is where misinformation and disinformation is so dangerous.

some left by choice at the behest of the grand mufti of jerusalem
some left during the war they started.

that's life. my family left belarus because of pogroms, leaving behind a great deal of property. if i stood on the border of belarus firing missiles, what type of 'sympathy' do you think i'd get? if a bunch of mexicans rallied at the southern border of this country and started bombing texas and so cal, they'd be flattened and no one would blink.

and jews have always been in israel..the 'ownership' of the area was nebulous and was a occupied by britain.

i don't really care about blame. i care about double standards and unreasonable expectations of a group of people because they happen to be jews. jews are liked so much better when they simply die.

heck with that.

there was only my great-grandfather left to leave rumania.

we are levites, so we never had any claims to the land, which adds to my ambivalence over even getting behind the validity of my cousin's claims to their right to statehood as a jewish state.

i certainly could never support the idea that jews deserve their own homeland to the exclusion of arabs who have occupied adjacent lands for just as long.

the idea of jews as this mighty army horrifies me.

it does not look to me to be fulfilling the covenant of unconditional love.

the idea of being killed bothers me more. and it is naive to think we shouldn't have armies. historically jews had great armies.

who are these bedouins who you think owned this land? this is where your recitation is incorrect. and in fact, i really don't understand the self-hatred. do you really believe that if jews walked away from israel, they'd let the israeli's live? that's counter intuitive.

i don't subscribe to any belief that i can't own land. in fact, i like owning land because for so long we weren't allowed to.

and my family came here before WWI, so they all got here.

no 'covenent of unconditional love' kept joshua from fighting the battle of jericho. no 'covenent of unconditional love' kept david from being a great warrior and killing goliath. i have no clue where your idea that jews are supposed to be victims comes from.

pick your head up. it's no good to crawl... one way you live free; the other you get oppressed.

 

[Marc39]

nobody has ever paid me to research the middle east and it frankly is not at the top of my priorities for independant study. on this board, i think i have been clear on my lack of in depth knowledge of the recent history in the region.

i question two things about your point.

the first is to ask what precipitated the attacks?
the other is that i don't exactly buy into the islam connection. is it not possible that the passion of these people can be inflamed by being forced out of their homes by immigrants and their anger has little or nothing to do with their religion?

the israelis are not blameless and i won't even try to say who is more wrong. peace works. war just benefits the people financing it.

this is where misinformation and disinformation is so dangerous.

some left by choice at the behest of the grand mufti of jerusalem
some left during the war they started.

that's life. my family left belarus because of pogroms, leaving behind a great deal of property. if i stood on the border of belarus firing missiles, what type of 'sympathy' do you think i'd get? if a bunch of mexicans rallied at the southern border of this country and started bombing texas and so cal, they'd be flattened and no one would blink.

and jews have always been in israel..the 'ownership' of the area was nebulous and was a occupied by britain.

i don't really care about blame. i care about double standards and unreasonable expectations of a group of people because they happen to be jews. jews are liked so much better when they simply die.

heck with that.

there was only my great-grandfather left to leave rumania.

we are levites, so we never had any claims to the land, which adds to my ambivalence over even getting behind the validity of my cousin's claims to their right to statehood as a jewish state.

i certainly could never support the idea that jews deserve their own homeland to the exclusion of arabs who have occupied adjacent lands for just as long.

the idea of jews as this mighty army horrifies me.

it does not look to me to be fulfilling the covenant of unconditional love.

The reason you make less money than a plumber is you're really dumb.

350 million Arabs have not one but nearly 30 homelands/countries, comprising 8,000,000 square miles of land mass, twice the size of the US.

5 million Jews have merely one homeland comprising only 8,000 square miles, the size of Vermont, one of the smallest states in the US.

The Arabs don't have enough land? 99.9%

The Jews have too much land? 0.1%

Your level of stupidity and ignorance is embarrassing. You're a total loser.

 

[tommywho70x]

this is where misinformation and disinformation is so dangerous.

some left by choice at the behest of the grand mufti of jerusalem
some left during the war they started.

that's life. my family left belarus because of pogroms, leaving behind a great deal of property. if i stood on the border of belarus firing missiles, what type of 'sympathy' do you think i'd get? if a bunch of mexicans rallied at the southern border of this country and started bombing texas and so cal, they'd be flattened and no one would blink.

and jews have always been in israel..the 'ownership' of the area was nebulous and was a occupied by britain.

i don't really care about blame. i care about double standards and unreasonable expectations of a group of people because they happen to be jews. jews are liked so much better when they simply die.

heck with that.

there was only my great-grandfather left to leave rumania.

we are levites, so we never had any claims to the land, which adds to my ambivalence over even getting behind the validity of my cousin's claims to their right to statehood as a jewish state.

i certainly could never support the idea that jews deserve their own homeland to the exclusion of arabs who have occupied adjacent lands for just as long.

the idea of jews as this mighty army horrifies me.

it does not look to me to be fulfilling the covenant of unconditional love.

the idea of being killed bothers me more. and it is naive to think we shouldn't have armies. historically jews had great armies.

who are these bedouins who you think owned this land? this is where your recitation is incorrect. and in fact, i really don't understand the self-hatred. do you really believe that if jews walked away from israel, they'd let the israeli's live? that's counter intuitive.

i don't subscribe to any belief that i can't own land. in fact, i like owning land because for so long we weren't allowed to.

and my family came here before WWI, so they all got here.

no 'covenent of unconditional love' kept joshua from fighting the battle of jericho. no 'covenent of unconditional love' kept david from being a great warrior and killing goliath. i have no clue where your idea that jews are supposed to be victims comes from.

pick your head up. it's no good to crawl... one way you live free; the other you get oppressed.

my people came to america, so success and survival didn't present any of the problems and dangers they did to your family.

i can afford to earn less than a plumber and still be happy and content with my lot and proud that i didn't compromise my morals just to be an over-affluent slob like my detractor who takes pride in bilking investors out of their money in a rigged marketplace.

to me the idea of land ownership is but another of the delusions that imperialists play as true. king david, in psalm 24, sang, the earth is the lord's and all that dwell therein.

when us grant attempted to purchase land from chief seattle, his reply was to question how he could sell something that did not belong to him. he believed that the people belonged to the land and not the other way around.

whatever the nitty gritty of the situation is, the fact remains that the land in dispute has been in dispute for thousands of years and will continue to be disputed so long as neither side recognizes the other's right to occupancy.

and yeah, yeah, the jews always came up with the serious fighters when the need arose, but again, i choose to draw my role models from the likes of hillel and akiva rather than benny netanyahu.

 

[GHook93]

nobody has ever paid me to research the middle east and it frankly is not at the top of my priorities for independant study. on this board, i think i have been clear on my lack of in depth knowledge of the recent history in the region.

i question two things about your point.

the first is to ask what precipitated the attacks?
the other is that i don't exactly buy into the islam connection. is it not possible that the passion of these people can be inflamed by being forced out of their homes by immigrants and their anger has little or nothing to do with their religion?

the israelis are not blameless and i won't even try to say who is more wrong. peace works. war just benefits the people financing it.

this is where misinformation and disinformation is so dangerous.

some left by choice at the behest of the grand mufti of jerusalem
some left during the war they started.

that's life. my family left belarus because of pogroms, leaving behind a great deal of property. if i stood on the border of belarus firing missiles, what type of 'sympathy' do you think i'd get? if a bunch of mexicans rallied at the southern border of this country and started bombing texas and so cal, they'd be flattened and no one would blink.

and jews have always been in israel..the 'ownership' of the area was nebulous and was a occupied by britain.

i don't really care about blame. i care about double standards and unreasonable expectations of a group of people because they happen to be jews. jews are liked so much better when they simply die.

heck with that.

there was only my great-grandfather left to leave rumania.

we are levites, so we never had any claims to the land, which adds to my ambivalence over even getting behind the validity of my cousin's claims to their right to statehood as a jewish state.

i certainly could never support the idea that jews deserve their own homeland to the exclusion of arabs who have occupied adjacent lands for just as long.

the idea of jews as this mighty army horrifies me.

it does not look to me to be fulfilling the covenant of unconditional love.

Of course Tommy believes this, because he's ignorant to way too many facts!
Fact 1: Palestine was given its name the Romans in 135 AD, nearly half century before the Arabs arrived. Up until 1967 calling an Arab a Palestinian was insulting and would get you into a fight. The term Palestinian was reserved for Jews. Its wasn't until they wanted yet another Arab state they started using the term Palestinians!

Fact 2: The Arabs arrived in 7th century on a mission of world conquest. Started by Moe. They captured: The entire Middle East, Persia, up into the Balkans, Turkey, into India and Asia (as far as Bangladesh), across North Africa and even into Europe (Spain)! They conquered Israel and these territories by the sword. You do know that Ancient Egypt wasn't ruled by Arabs, the ancient Egyptians weren't Arabs, they were ethnically cleansed out of exsistence! A fact lost in the PC history books also.

Fact 3: During the 1800s Palestine's population were at its lowest. Facts and figures were lost and suppressed by the genocidial Turks (who still don't own up to their atrosicities) because the Ottoman rulers didn't allow census or even statistic. Everything was hush hush for these barbarians. But Mark Twain told the world of this! He is an almanac, that CAN NOT be disputed by and honest historians or scholars:

"Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that has withered its fields and fettered its energies... Palestine is desolate and unlovely... It is a hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land... [a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds - a silent mournful expanse... A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action... We never saw a human being on the whole route... There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country..." - Mark Twain (describing Palestine on a visit in 1867).

Fact 4: The Jews always remained in Israel even after getting expelled time and time again. There last true independence (before the rebirth) was in 613-617 AD. The Persians helped the Jews reconquer the lands from the Byzantine Empire. During this short period of time the Jews ruled the lands and then the Byzantines brutally took it back after a backstabbing deal was made! During 1800s the Jews were the majority in Jerusalem INCLUDING and ESPECIALLY East Jerusalem. After the 1948 war the Jews of East Jerusalem fleed to the other side. Ironically this is also neglected from the PC history books!

Fact 5: The VAST amount, the VAST MAJORITY of Arabs/Palestinians came to the Israel/Palestine during the White Paper days. From 1917 to 1948. During this time period, Britian had absolutely no restrictions on immigration to Palestinian Mandates. Arabs could come and go without being stopped. Jews were forbidden to immigrate. The Leftist propagandist leave out the fact that the majority of Arab immigration came during this time period.

 

[tommywho70x]

okay, now that you have all brought me up to date, it's obvious that the only solution is to exterminate all the palestinians.

should i get after my congressman to increase military supports for israel and send extra money to the CJA?

 

[Marc39]

to me the idea of land ownership is but another of the delusions that imperialists play as true. king david, in psalm 24, sang, the earth is the lord's and all that dwell therein.

Muslims who invaded virtually the entire Middle East and much of Europe, Asia and Africa, slaughtering hundreds of millions of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians and anyone else who got in their way, are the imperialists.

Read, learn, moron...
Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

whatever the nitty gritty of the situation is, the fact remains that the land in dispute has been in dispute for thousands of years and will continue to be disputed so long as neither side recognizes the other's right to occupancy.

The dispute has been long-resolved by international law that transferred sovereignty over Palestine from the Ottoman Turks, who signed the Treaty of Sevres after World War I, to the Jews via the legally binding San Remo Resolution coupled with the binding Palestine Mandate.

Anyone with 5 working brain cells recognizes that when Muslims control 9,000,000 square miles of land in the Middle East and North Africa and the Jews merely 8,000 square miles and, still, the Muslims will not permit the existence of Israel, the matter is theological and about Islamic anti-Semitism, not about land.

Now, you're a little less stupid, stupid.

 

[tommywho70x]

to me the idea of land ownership is but another of the delusions that imperialists play as true. king david, in psalm 24, sang, the earth is the lord's and all that dwell therein.

Muslims who invaded virtually the entire Middle East and much of Europe, Asia and Africa, slaughtering hundreds of millions of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians and anyone else who got in their way, are the imperialists.

Read, learn, moron...
Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

whatever the nitty gritty of the situation is, the fact remains that the land in dispute has been in dispute for thousands of years and will continue to be disputed so long as neither side recognizes the other's right to occupancy.

The dispute has been long-resolved by international law that transferred sovereignty over Palestine from the Ottoman Turks, who signed the Treaty of Sevres after World War I, to the Jews via the legally binding San Remo Resolution coupled with the binding Palestine Mandate.

Anyone with 5 working brain cells recognizes that when Muslims control 9,000,000 square miles of land in the Middle East and North Africa and the Jews merely 8,000 square miles and, still, the Muslims will not permit the existence of Israel, the matter is theological and about Islamic anti-Semitism, not about land.

Now, you're a little less stupid, stupid.

go away

your logic isn't logical and your utter lack of respect for everybody makes you a really undesirable piece of shit to communicate with.

 

[del]

this is where misinformation and disinformation is so dangerous.

some left by choice at the behest of the grand mufti of jerusalem
some left during the war they started.

that's life. my family left belarus because of pogroms, leaving behind a great deal of property. if i stood on the border of belarus firing missiles, what type of 'sympathy' do you think i'd get? if a bunch of mexicans rallied at the southern border of this country and started bombing texas and so cal, they'd be flattened and no one would blink.

and jews have always been in israel..the 'ownership' of the area was nebulous and was a occupied by britain.

i don't really care about blame. i care about double standards and unreasonable expectations of a group of people because they happen to be jews. jews are liked so much better when they simply die.

heck with that.

there was only my great-grandfather left to leave rumania.

we are levites, so we never had any claims to the land, which adds to my ambivalence over even getting behind the validity of my cousin's claims to their right to statehood as a jewish state.

i certainly could never support the idea that jews deserve their own homeland to the exclusion of arabs who have occupied adjacent lands for just as long.

the idea of jews as this mighty army horrifies me.

it does not look to me to be fulfilling the covenant of unconditional love.

The reason you make less money than a plumber is you're really dumb.

350 million Arabs have not one but nearly 30 homelands/countries, comprising 8,000,000 square miles of land mass, twice the size of the US.

5 million Jews have merely one homeland comprising only 8,000 square miles, the size of Vermont, one of the smallest states in the US.

The Arabs don't have enough land? 99.9%

The Jews have too much land? 0.1%

Your level of stupidity and ignorance is embarrassing. You're a total loser.

stifle yourself, poolboi.

the adults are talking now.

 

[Marc39]

there was only my great-grandfather left to leave rumania.

we are levites, so we never had any claims to the land, which adds to my ambivalence over even getting behind the validity of my cousin's claims to their right to statehood as a jewish state.

i certainly could never support the idea that jews deserve their own homeland to the exclusion of arabs who have occupied adjacent lands for just as long.

the idea of jews as this mighty army horrifies me.

it does not look to me to be fulfilling the covenant of unconditional love.

The reason you make less money than a plumber is you're really dumb.

350 million Arabs have not one but nearly 30 homelands/countries, comprising 8,000,000 square miles of land mass, twice the size of the US.

5 million Jews have merely one homeland comprising only 8,000 square miles, the size of Vermont, one of the smallest states in the US.

The Arabs don't have enough land? 99.9%

The Jews have too much land? 0.1%

Your level of stupidity and ignorance is embarrassing. You're a total loser.

stifle yourself, poolboi.

the adults are talking now.

Mirror mirror, chat room monitor.

 

[Marc39]

to me the idea of land ownership is but another of the delusions that imperialists play as true. king david, in psalm 24, sang, the earth is the lord's and all that dwell therein.

Muslims who invaded virtually the entire Middle East and much of Europe, Asia and Africa, slaughtering hundreds of millions of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians and anyone else who got in their way, are the imperialists.

Read, learn, moron...
Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

whatever the nitty gritty of the situation is, the fact remains that the land in dispute has been in dispute for thousands of years and will continue to be disputed so long as neither side recognizes the other's right to occupancy.

The dispute has been long-resolved by international law that transferred sovereignty over Palestine from the Ottoman Turks, who signed the Treaty of Sevres after World War I, to the Jews via the legally binding San Remo Resolution coupled with the binding Palestine Mandate.

Anyone with 5 working brain cells recognizes that when Muslims control 9,000,000 square miles of land in the Middle East and North Africa and the Jews merely 8,000 square miles and, still, the Muslims will not permit the existence of Israel, the matter is theological and about Islamic anti-Semitism, not about land.

Now, you're a little less stupid, stupid.

your logic isn't logical and your utter lack of respect for everybody makes you a really undesirable piece of shit to communicate with.

You are unable to factually dispute my logic, moron.

You are painfully ignorant of Middle East affairs. Why do you persist in allowing me to rip you a new asshole, asshole?

No wonder you make less money than a plumber.

 

[GHook93]

okay, now that you have all brought me up to date, it's obvious that the only solution is to exterminate all the palestinians.

should i get after my congressman to increase military supports for israel and send extra money to the CJA?

Tell them to toss in the Leftists, Mexicans (Men, only I love Latinas, they can stay), Venezuelans (ditto) and Fags also we you are at it!

 

[jillian]

okay, now that you have all brought me up to date, it's obvious that the only solution is to exterminate all the palestinians.

should i get after my congressman to increase military supports for israel and send extra money to the CJA?

would you like some cheese with that whine?

to your mind, the only alternative is killing all the palestinians or dying because of some really weird misplaced need you have to martyr yourself?

people win and lose land in battle all the time. i have zero guilt that the jews weren't obliterated. the brits only divided the mandate because of their own guilty consciences and, imho, there wasn't ever supposed to be a jewish state. the arabs (not palestinians...there weren't any) had the high ground, the fortresses, the defensible positions and the soviet weapons. the jews won. that's life.

do i think the pals should have a state? yes. it just can't be in israel.

and dying for no reason is stupid.