Atheists are hoping aliens from outer space will contact us...

[MarkDuffy]

It's not a paradox unless you assume it is true.

I'm not sure if you understand what a paradox is.

Yes, you do and I don't buy it. Using spiritual does not get you outta jail free.

Didn't ask for an "outta jail free" here. Again, spiritual nature doesn't require physical creation.

OK then, we will play this one on your turf. It would require spiritual creation.

Depending on how you reply to my religion post, you might need to explain the creation of human spirit with every birth.

 

[MarkDuffy]

4) To allow such a spiritual nature, you also have to allow ghosts, goblins, magic, witches, demons, reincarnation and a host of other things.

Do you have a valid physical explanation for ghosts, goblins, etc.? It's obvious these experiences of various phenomenon have existed in human nature for a long time and it doesn't appear to be a fad or trend. I would surmise that spiritual nature might play a role.

Obvious? Shirley you jest!

 

[Boss]

You do well about beating around the bush.

Describe your religion for me.

Does every human have a spiritual part? Where did this come from and what happens after death. Is this spirit only in humans, no other life on earth?

It sounds like you are talking the Christian God in all its glory, but w/o saying so.

Soooo, where do you differ from Christianity?

I don't really have a "religion" per say. I am a Spiritualist who believes in a "God" of Spiritual Energy. Are you familiar with Spinoza's God?

Again, you are referencing something spiritual and asking me where it "came from" and things that are spiritual don't "come from" anywhere, they exist outside of time and space.

I believe every human has intrinsic spiritual connection, whether they utilize it or not. Humans are the only living thing that seems to have an awareness of spiritual connection. It's possible that other living things have spiritual connection but aren't intrinsically aware of it. I believe Breeze has made this argument for the Flora and Fauna before.

How does my belief differ from Christianity? Okay, there are tremendous differences. I don't believe in a God with humanistic characteristics like love, hate, anger, jealousy, needs and wants, desires, etc. From my perspective, God doesn't give a shit if you want to be spiritually connected or not. In this respect, God is kind of like electricity.... it's there for you to access and benefit from, but it doesn't care if you do or don't. I believe that your spiritual soul lives on after your physical body dies. What happen to it and where it goes from here, I don't have a clue. I have a theory... I assume, since spiritual nature tends to incline us toward good and away from evil, toward the light and away from the dark, that it does infer "purpose" by it's nature. Perhaps our soul/spirit "ascends" to a higher plain of existence? I say this because it just makes logical sense to me from my perspective but to each his own.

I don't have a particular animosity toward Christians, or really, any other religious group. I believe all religions are simply evidence of intrinsic human spirituality that is part of who we are. Religions often help mankind to nurture their spiritual connection. Sometimes, this doesn't always produce satisfactory results... i.e.; radical Islam. However, in reading and studying the Bible, I find that most of it is a very good primer on how to live a good spiritual life. I mean, what is bad about "love thy neighbor?" Now, do many people exploit Christianity and the Bible to control others and create hate and discord? Of course, that's also human nature. We're fallible creatures, which is why we are unable to create a flawless religion.

 

[Boss]

Creating the physical universe is pretty physical

Not until you can present a valid physical explanation for how universes are created.

 

[Boss]

That's pretty lame

That's not an argument.

 

[Boss]

I have observed the physical world. I have not observed the spiritual. I can explain the voices in my head. LOL

So you have never loved anyone?

 

[Boss]

OK then, we will play this one on your turf. It would require spiritual creation.

Depending on how you reply to my religion post, you might need to explain the creation of human spirit with every birth.

Again.... "CREATION" is a PHYSICAL concept! How many times do I have to make this point? To CREATE is to bring into physical state of being or existence. Something SPIRITUAL is not CREATED! It cannot be CREATED or it would be PHYSICAL!

 

[MarkDuffy]

You do well about beating around the bush.

Describe your religion for me.

Does every human have a spiritual part? Where did this come from and what happens after death. Is this spirit only in humans, no other life on earth?

It sounds like you are talking the Christian God in all its glory, but w/o saying so.

Soooo, where do you differ from Christianity?

I don't really have a "religion" per say. I am a Spiritualist who believes in a "God" of Spiritual Energy. Are you familiar with Spinoza's God?

Again, you are referencing something spiritual and asking me where it "came from" and things that are spiritual don't "come from" anywhere, they exist outside of time and space.

I believe every human has intrinsic spiritual connection, whether they utilize it or not. Humans are the only living thing that seems to have an awareness of spiritual connection. It's possible that other living things have spiritual connection but aren't intrinsically aware of it. I believe Breeze has made this argument for the Flora and Fauna before.

How does my belief differ from Christianity? Okay, there are tremendous differences. I don't believe in a God with humanistic characteristics like love, hate, anger, jealousy, needs and wants, desires, etc. From my perspective, God doesn't give a shit if you want to be spiritually connected or not. In this respect, God is kind of like electricity.... it's there for you to access and benefit from, but it doesn't care if you do or don't. I believe that your spiritual soul lives on after your physical body dies. What happen to it and where it goes from here, I don't have a clue. I have a theory... I assume, since spiritual nature tends to incline us toward good and away from evil, toward the light and away from the dark, that it does infer "purpose" by it's nature. Perhaps our soul/spirit "ascends" to a higher plain of existence? I say this because it just makes logical sense to me from my perspective but to each his own.

I don't have a particular animosity toward Christians, or really, any other religious group. I believe all religions are simply evidence of intrinsic human spirituality that is part of who we are. Religions often help mankind to nurture their spiritual connection. Sometimes, this doesn't always produce satisfactory results... i.e.; radical Islam. However, in reading and studying the Bible, I find that most of it is a very good primer on how to live a good spiritual life. I mean, what is bad about "love thy neighbor?" Now, do many people exploit Christianity and the Bible to control others and create hate and discord? Of course, that's also human nature. We're fallible creatures, which is why we are unable to create a flawless religion.

I believe that your spiritual soul lives on after your physical body dies.

Why am I not amazed you skipped the origin question?

Something that lives on after death assumes was created at birth, unless you want to go the reincarnation route. The problem with that is the population of the planet is astronomically expanding so there are not enough souls to go around unless you go full Indian and have souls of say monkeys (since that really pisses off the creationists LOL).

 

[MarkDuffy]

OK then, we will play this one on your turf. It would require spiritual creation.

Depending on how you reply to my religion post, you might need to explain the creation of human spirit with every birth.

Again.... "CREATION" is a PHYSICAL concept! How many times do I have to make this point? To CREATE is to bring into physical state of being or existence. Something SPIRITUAL is not CREATED! It cannot be CREATED or it would be PHYSICAL!

Which is why my claim of spirit cannot create the physical universe is exactly what you believe. You just admitted it in bold.

We are done here. You have no case. You plead immunity from argument.

We don't play on only one side of the field, my end of the field.

I accept your surrender.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

I believe every human has intrinsic spiritual connection, whether they utilize it or not. Humans are the only living thing that seems to have an awareness of spiritual connection. It's possible that other living things have spiritual connection but aren't intrinsically aware of it. I believe Breeze has made this argument for the Flora and Fauna before.

you're a hopeless case bossy, the Lion is unaware of their presence ...

 

[BreezeWood]

you might need to explain the creation of human spirit with every birth.

every being represents a Spirit the random physiology is the unknown ... aliens in our mist.

 

[MarkDuffy]

you might need to explain the creation of human spirit with every birth.

every being represents a Spirit the random physiology is the unknown ... aliens in our mist.

What you call spirit, I call consciousness. It is born with the human and dies with the human. This sounds distasteful, and that is why we invented a God.

 

[BreezeWood]

you might need to explain the creation of human spirit with every birth.

every being represents a Spirit the random physiology is the unknown ... aliens in our mist.

What you call spirit, I call consciousness. It is born with the human and dies with the human. This sounds distasteful, and that is why we invented a God.

.

What you call spirit, I call consciousness. It is born with the human and dies with the human. This sounds distasteful, and that is why we invented a God.

there you go with the human thing, surly you do not reserve consciousness to humanity alone ...

there is an Almighty as there is the Apex of Knowledge and The Triumph of Good vs Evil as exists the reward for those who surmount those summits, the Everlasting.

 

[MarkDuffy]

you might need to explain the creation of human spirit with every birth.

every being represents a Spirit the random physiology is the unknown ... aliens in our mist.

What you call spirit, I call consciousness. It is born with the human and dies with the human. This sounds distasteful, and that is why we invented a God.

.

What you call spirit, I call consciousness. It is born with the human and dies with the human. This sounds distasteful, and that is why we invented a God.

there you go with the human thing, surly you do not reserve consciousness to humanity alone ...

there is an Almighty as there is the Apex of Knowledge and The Triumph of Good vs Evil as exists the reward for those who surmount those summits, the Everlasting.

there you go with the human thing, surly you do not reserve consciousness to humanity alone ...

No I don't, but I don't want to start an argument over it. More precisely, there are levels of consciousness & I put humans at the top.

 

[Boss]

I believe that your spiritual soul lives on after your physical body dies.

Why am I not amazed you skipped the origin question?

Something that lives on after death assumes was created at birth, unless you want to go the reincarnation route. The problem with that is the population of the planet is astronomically expanding so there are not enough souls to go around unless you go full Indian and have souls of say monkeys (since that really pisses off the creationists LOL).

Okay, maybe I stated that incorrectly but I've now said four times in this thread that spiritual things are not physical. Physical things "begin" and "end" and "are created" and "come from" and "have life" and "die." Those are PHYSICAL attributes. So I don't know how many times you want me to correct you on this... 100? 200? How many times is it going to take before you get it?

As for the numbers, I appreciate your concern over the number of souls available... but again, spiritual things aren't dependent on numbers. Numbers are human creations to measure physical things. This is beginning to really frustrate me because you don't seem to comprehend that spiritual is not physical. Maybe you're just closed-minded and nothing is going to penetrate your granite-like noggin? IF that is the case, we don't have much more to discuss here.

 

[Boss]

OK then, we will play this one on your turf. It would require spiritual creation.

Depending on how you reply to my religion post, you might need to explain the creation of human spirit with every birth.

Again.... "CREATION" is a PHYSICAL concept! How many times do I have to make this point? To CREATE is to bring into physical state of being or existence. Something SPIRITUAL is not CREATED! It cannot be CREATED or it would be PHYSICAL!

Which is why my claim of spirit cannot create the physical universe is exactly what you believe. You just admitted it in bold.

We are done here. You have no case. You plead immunity from argument.

We don't play on only one side of the field, my end of the field.

I accept your surrender.

Well I didn't surrender. You just have a disconnect where you can't comprehend that spiritual and physical are two entirely different things. The physical universe requires creating because it's a physical thing. Spiritual things don't need to be created because they don't have physical existence. There is no "plead of immunity" but spiritual things are not physical and never will be... sorry you don't get that.

 

[RWS]

The universe is facing 4 different outcomes:

Contraction. This seems to be ruled out by the ever-increasing expansion of the universe.

Expansion. There are three possibilies for this as we can imagine thus far before "alien intervention" :
a. The Big Chill
b. The Big Freeze
c. The Big Rip

A and B are not likely unless the ever-increasing expansion decides to stop at some point. Why would it suddenly stop when it is increasing exponentially?

That leaves us with The Big Rip. Which is what I have been trying to explain, and that expansion continues forever, based on the ratio of constants in this universe.

In that scenario, expansion continues to increase to the point where it starts ripping apart the space inside our atoms. And then the space between our sub-atomic particles that make up our atoms. And then rips apart our sub-atomic particles into ever-smaller quantum particles.

Those quantum particles, as they reach absolute zero will convert to the energy that created them. Thus, this universe will eventually have 0% matter, and 100% energy, and be ready for the next iteration of the "Big Bang" or whatever it was that started the whole thing.

Now, if God exists, he wouldn't have made the constant of expansion as high as he did. Unless his intention was for us to all fail. No, it seems more likely that our universe is existing for the amount of time that it has, due to pure chance. We are not the best universe there can be.

We are just living out our lives in the universe that we were born into, and trying to make sense of it.

Some prefer a scientic approach and lots of questions and discovery, and some prefer "gods" and "religions" as a quick and easy solution.

Doesn't really matter in the end...

We won't be around to get a cookie.

The big rip is really out there as far as hypotheses go. More like a very bad acid trip.

Big Rip - Wikipedia

Phantom energy - Wikipedia

Some mathematicians have waaay too much time on their hands.

It seems like the natural progression of this universe. And the links support it. No disrespect, but why do you think it is "out there"?

 

[RWS]

Expansion. There are three possibilies for this as we can imagine thus far before "alien intervention" :
a. The Big Chill
b. The Big Freeze
c. The Big Rip

RWS, there is a 4th result of expansion - the Boomerang Theory

matter is expelled from Singularities sphere, its center outward / at a finite angle (trajectory) all matter will then return in unison to that origin, point of Singularity without ever changing direction following the trajectories curvature. to recompact creating a new Singularity and new cyclical expulsion.

That's hard for me to understand at the moment , but I do have a theory that I will discuss elsewhere, that's about 2 singularities colliding head-on, and the result, and why.

 

[hobelim]

What you call spirit, I call consciousness. It is born with the human and dies with the human. This sounds distasteful, and that is why we invented a God.

Spirit is consciousness. What the ancients would have called an unclean spirit people today would think of as a filthy or dirty mind.

Nothing mystical or superstitious about it.



When Jesus first appeared he spoke of a merciful and benevolent God that no one had ever heard about before and no one really understood or believed in until Jesus appeared to his disciples in dreams after his death.


This is what convinced them that Jesus was right and what he taught about God must be true for dreams were believed to be the medium through which God speaks to man, the bridge between the consciousness of man and the eternal realm of God who is spirit.

They didn't make up a belief in God, they were convinced that the personal consciousness, the spirit of Jesus, survived death which convinced them that the God that Jesus taught about was the only true God.

They abandoned their former belief in a puerile and petty tyrant of a god that obsesses over diet, fashion, and the sexual preferences of human beings invented by fear and ignorance and used by the potentates of darkness to control and fleece the population like sheep....

 

[BreezeWood]

.

there you go with the human thing, surly you do not reserve consciousness to humanity alone ...

No I don't, but I don't want to start an argument over it. More precisely, there are levels of consciousness & I put humans at the top.

on top of what ... destroying Earth with an A-Bomb.

is it possible then for a Spiritual coefficient to consciousness that precludes self destruction that is relevant to the "discussion".