Atheist soldier says Army punished him

[Diuretic]

I think a religion must have a deity figure, its own mythologies and a belief in an afterlife. But, having said that it's apparent that Buddhism has no deity figure, its has its mythologies but many secular movements do, it has no belief in an afterlife albeit some types, if I can use the word, do believe in a reincarnation cycle but reincarnation is just a process and not a destination in Buddhism.

So, if Buddhism is a religion and it's certainly accepted as a religion rather than a philosophical movement, then my previous definition needs amendment.

But atheism isn't a religion and to hold that it is is to ignore the nature of religion as it's widely accepted all over the world.

 

[Taomon]

But atheism isn't a religion and to hold that it is is to ignore the nature of religion as it's widely accepted all over the world.

Stepping away from the norm is not a definition. Religion is defined in the hearts and minds of the believer. Secularist views are religion to the secularist and not to others. That does not make it any less a religion than any other belief system.

Acceptance by the majority does not make it false neither. All religions started off as small groups of people who went against the accepted view.

 

[Diuretic]

Stepping away from the norm is not a definition. Religion is defined in the hearts and minds of the believer. Secularist views are religion to the secularist and not to others. That does not make it any less a religion than any other belief system.

Acceptance by the majority does not make it false neither. All religions started off as small groups of people who went against the accepted view.

If a religion is simply a personal belief system then atheism would be a religion. But a religion has certain characteristics that have appeared constant across time and across cultures.

Religion is differentiated from a philosophy by those characteristics. Those characteristics aren't found in the idea of atheism. If those characteristics aren't present in atheism then atheism isn't a religion.

 

[Alucard]

Christians had much more political dominence at the beginning of our country than now.

Inquisition, wow, you are really desperate now, arent you. You realize alot more people have been murdered in the name of atheism than those in the name of religion ever will be. Ever hear of Stalin? or Mao, or pol pot

You forgot Hitler... He didnt murder the jews in the name of God... He did it in the name of secularism and race....

shogn's in denial...

Name the wars fought in the name of religion(God)

Crusades(christian)
Present war on terrorism(muslim)

Thats it!... every other war was started in the name of secularism...

 

[Diuretic]

You forgot Hitler... He didnt murder the jews in the name of God... He did it in the name of secularism and race....

shogn's in denial...

Name the wars fought in the name of religion(God)

Crusades(christian)
Present war on terrorism(muslim)

Thats it!... every other war was started in the name of secularism...

Is this supposed to make some sort of cohesive sense?

 

[CSM]

There is something awfully fishy with this. The military doesn't give a rat's ass what you do regarding religion ON YOUR OWN TIME. However, you canot just decide to hold a personal meeting in the middle of the duty day when a soldier is supposed to be doing soldier duties. Nor can you just walk into the commanders office and kick him out because you wnat to hold your meeting there. One more thing, in case you had not noticed, soldiers give up an awful lot of personal freedoms when they join the military...they come under different rules. Yes, the Constitution is the basis for those rules but they are not EXACTLY the same. ANyone familiar with USCMJ can tell you that.

Without knowing all the details I am willing to bet there is more to this story than some E-4 being denied his right to practice whatever "religion" he chooses.

 

[jillian]

You forgot Hitler... He didnt murder the jews in the name of God... He did it in the name of secularism and race....

shogn's in denial...

Name the wars fought in the name of religion(God)

Crusades(christian)
Present war on terrorism(muslim)

Thats it!... every other war was started in the name of secularism...

Hitler used German Christianity as a rallying point... he didn't use secularism at all.

Adolf Hitler & Christian Nationalism:
A popular image of the Nazis is that they were fundamentally anti-Christian while devout Christians were anti-Nazi. The truth is that German Christians supported the Nazis because they believed that Adolf Hitler was a gift to the German people from God. German Christianity was a divinely sanctioned religious movement which combined Christian doctrine and German character in a unique and desirable manner: True Christianity was German and True German-ness was Christian.

What was Positive Christianity?:
The NSDAP Party Program stated in part: “We demand freedom for all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the customs and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity, without owing itself to a particular confession....” Positive Christianity adhered to basic orthodox doctrines and asserted that Christianity must make a practical, positive difference in people’s lives.

Christian anti-Semitism:
Anti-Semitism was an important aspect of the Nazi state, but the Nazis didn’t invent it; instead, they drew upon centuries of Christian anti-Semitism and extensive anti-Semitic theology in Germany’s Christian community. The Nazis believed that Jewishness was more than just a religion, a position which was supported by religious leaders who supplied the Nazis with baptismal and marriage records to help identify converted Jews.

http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitlernazigermany/p/NaziChristian.htm

You think the only blood shed because of religion was the crusades and current Iraq war?

Is that why we're in Iraq? To kill Muslims?

 

[Shogun]

You forgot Hitler... He didnt murder the jews in the name of God... He did it in the name of secularism and race....

shogn's in denial...

Name the wars fought in the name of religion(God)

Crusades(christian)
Present war on terrorism(muslim)

Thats it!... every other war was started in the name of secularism...

Pol pot was just trying to force Cambodia into atheism, eh?



STALIN's main goal had NOTHING to do with class structure at all! nope, he was just trying to make everyone ATHEIST!



You people crack me up.


Yea, let's go ahead and forget the entire european history of protestants versus catholics. Sure... why not? Hell, WHY did people come to the new world? Oh yea.. because they wanted religious freedom from other CHRISTIANS. Hear any good jokes about how catholicism spread to south and central America? You dogma junkies might wish it were the case that Pol pot and Stalin were as motivated by their non-belief as christian nutters have a history of being with their belief but purposfully forgetting every other reason for those attrocities probably won't make it true that Stalin and Pol pot were trying to do what Crusaders and Inquisitors were trying to do.. in the name of GOD rather than social reconstruction.

still cracking me up that you thing that the ONLY christian action against non christians was only the crusades...

After all, it's probably just an atheist myth that the line of early popes were power mad freaks willing to do whatever was necessary to retain power in the vatican...

driving out the "snakes" in Ireland? yea.. just a myth.

like I said.. you people crack me up.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Thanks so much... I think I'll go by the definitions.

And yet two of the 4 I provided STATE no supernatural belief is required. What you mean is you will go with the definitions you like. Your own includes the statement Most ( notice not ALL) require supernatural belief.

But do claim otherwise.

 

[Taomon]

And yet two of the 4 I provided STATE no supernatural belief is required. What you mean is you will go with the definitions you like. Your own includes the statement Most ( notice not ALL) require supernatural belief.

But do claim otherwise.

And is that not one of the uglier characteristics of organized religions:
unreasonable attachment to ideals that defy reason.

I have to side with RGS on this one. You made a good point.

 

[pegwinn]

And I am sure your assessment is not biased in any way

Of course it is. I personally dislike idiots. They suck up oxygen needed by others who are more worthy.

 

[pegwinn]

Is that why we're in Iraq? To kill Muslims?

Nope. We are there to kill Muslim thugs and terrorists. I had the opportunity to visit the ME on a couple of occasions. Being an armed tourist encouraged me to be very observant of the locals. Y'know what? Most are just people trying to live the life that fate dealt em. Killing the thugs and terrorists is the best thing we can do to improve the lot of the normal folks who just want to carry on.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

That "murdered in the name of atheism" claim is hollow. That atheistic, totalitarian regimes have killed a lot of people is a fact. But I doubt that the notion of atheism drove the regimes to kill.

It's always a bad idea to bring this in because it's a doddle to point out the Crusades, where religion was allegedly the driving force to kill lots of people. There are many other examples.

Its their choice to bring it in or not. I just insist they stay consistent. Either way, Christianity is not responsable for more deaths than any other groups. Responding with a good reply about how those werent true Christians is not effective. So I dont go there.

WOW !! I musta really pissed GRUMPY off, I guess with that name, it must not be too difficult.

 

[jillian]

Nope. We are there to kill Muslim thugs and terrorists. I had the opportunity to visit the ME on a couple of occasions. Being an armed tourist encouraged me to be very observant of the locals. Y'know what? Most are just people trying to live the life that fate dealt em. Killing the thugs and terrorists is the best thing we can do to improve the lot of the normal folks who just want to carry on.

But there weren't any Muslim thugs and terrorists in Iraq til Bush's war....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

But there weren't any Muslim thugs and terrorists in Iraq til Bush's war....

Yes there were.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Yes, but that does not make us a Christian nation. Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independance and co-authored the Constitution. He was a Unitarian by definition, but hardly a Christian man.

There is room in America for non-Christian beliefs, if the Evangelicals will calm down they will see that religious dominance is not necessary in America.

That topic has been beaten to death. THe bigotted anti Christians have not been able to come up with good counter arguements. In order to believe them, you have to totally ignore a wealth of information. They are so delusional, it isnt difficult for them. Most of the FF's were book signed Christians of varying denominations, and, THERE WERE STATE SANCTIONED CHURCHES AT THE TIME. The First amendment, like all the others, was simply making sure the feds didnt wrestly control of that issue from the states.
States rights was a huge issue, so huge, the first constitution had to be re written cuz it wasnt effective enough. They had to give the feds more power.
TOday , the wacky left and activist judges have made the COTUS meaningless. We are a nation of laws, but not under the Constitution. Those who claim it are only creating a delusional smoke screen, or do so out of political necessity. We have not been governed by the Cotus for some years now, Income taxes are unconstitutional.
Do you know when they started them? Dont look it up.

 

[Diuretic]

Its their choice to bring it in or not. I just insist they stay consistent. Either way, Christianity is not responsable for more deaths than any other groups. Responding with a good reply about how those werent true Christians is not effective. So I dont go there.

WOW !! I musta really pissed GRUMPY off, I guess with that name, it must not be too difficult.

I was countering the claim that atheism motivated any state to kill. I might be persuaded that an atheist regime might kill because it's leaders are probably more worried about the ICC than the afterlife but it's still a stretch.

As for whether or not Christianity is responsible etc. it's far too complex and issue to bring out here. I was referring to religion in general, not just Christianity, and again it was to try and counter the idea that atheism would make people rush out and kill. Religion has frequently been used by regimes as an excuse to kill, rape, maim, destroy etc. I don't think it can validly be claimed that atheism was used in the same manner.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

But there weren't any Muslim thugs and terrorists in Iraq til Bush's war....

Talk about clueless. You really believe your own shit? Think about it, what was saddam? His sons who raped women at their weddings, how about the jails for kids and the torture rooms, a day in the park?

You are fucking pathetically delusional

 

[Diuretic]

Talk about clueless. You really believe your own shit? Think about it, what was saddam? His sons who raped women at their weddings, how about the jails for kids and the torture rooms, a day in the park?

You are fucking pathetically delusional

Saddam was notionally a Sunni. He ran a secular regime (uh-oh, I've done it now, secularism is in for it, oh well) which included Muslims as well as Chaldean Catholics, but given the regime was Ba'athist and secular I think it's a bit of a stretch you're trying there.

A casual reading of jillian's post would reveal that she was referring to motivation. NOW in Iraq there are Muslim thugs and terrorists. THEN in Saddam's secular Iraq there were simply state thugs and state terrorists. The invasion and occupation (war if you will) has opened the way for the Muslim thugs and terrorists to operate in what was previously a secular dictatorship.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Saddam was notionally a Sunni. He ran a secular regime (uh-oh, I've done it now, secularism is in for it, oh well) which included Muslims as well as Chaldean Catholics, but given the regime was Ba'athist and secular I think it's a bit of a stretch you're trying there.

A casual reading of jillian's post would reveal that she was referring to motivation. NOW in Iraq there are Muslim thugs and terrorists. THEN in Saddam's secular Iraq there were simply state thugs and state terrorists. The invasion and occupation (war if you will) has opened the way for the Muslim thugs and terrorists to operate in what was previously a secular dictatorship.

Wrong, the Thugs and terrorists may have had state sponsorship by being in the military or in the Government, but claiming that the entire apperatus was non Muslim is ignorant. The people were then and still are Muslim.

Further claiming that because yesterday Saddam did it and now today "Muslims" do it and it was ok before is pathetic.

The Muslim clerics that are leading the non AQ forces existed BEFORE Saddam was ousted. Their followers existed BEFORE Saddam was ousted.

Further Terrorists WERE in Iraq before Saddam was ousted. They may have not been attacking Government forces, but they were there as were the thugs.