Assange: Clinton should resign over alleged spying

[antagon]

Bullshit. Stolen property does not become "not stolen" merely if you hand it off to someone else.

is this a matter of wikileaks taking a facillitator position with the material, rather than a direct conspirator? do they have freedom of the press in such a matter? if so, would that freedom protect them from endictments of espionage?

Exactly the dilemma we will be faced with.

We need to be careful here.

It may change the entire freedom of speech thing....it is not so cut and dry.

Next, there will be reason to shut down Glen Beck as some will claim his approach can be damaging to the US.

And then maybe during a republican administration Rachel Maddow is next?

looking into it as above i dont think it is nearly as dicey an issue. specifically since we are at war (is that official for these purposes without a declaration as such?)

 

[Ravi]

does publishing leaked documents constitute espionage?

Yes.

Espionage is a broad brush law, and Asange falls into it.

quite true a little research has revealed...

Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes,
transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person,
or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or
interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign
government to the detriment of the United States any classified
information

... will have their ass hunted down and subject to a firing squad (paraphrased)

from...

U.S.C PART I - CRIMES - CHAPTER 37 - ESPIONAGE AND CENSORSHIP Sec. 798. Disclosure of classified information

I don't think it is that simple. Federal law cannot supersede the constitutionally guaranteed freedom of the press...this would have to be ruled on by SCOTUS. I'm also not sure you can consider Assuange "the press".

 

[goldcatt]

Yes.

Espionage is a broad brush law, and Asange falls into it.

quite true a little research has revealed...

Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes,
transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person,
or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or
interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign
government to the detriment of the United States any classified
information

... will have their ass hunted down and subject to a firing squad (paraphrased)

from...

U.S.C PART I - CRIMES - CHAPTER 37 - ESPIONAGE AND CENSORSHIP Sec. 798. Disclosure of classified information

I don't think it is that simple. Federal law cannot supersede the constitutionally guaranteed freedom of the press...this would have to be ruled on by SCOTUS. I'm also not sure you can consider Assuange "the press".

Wikileaks would fall under freedom of press. But espionage is not trumped by the First, it is an exception to it.

 

[hortysir]

Reminds me of BinLaden, et.al

How are these criminals releasing statements?

Can't someone track this kinda shit??

 

[antagon]

Yes.

Espionage is a broad brush law, and Asange falls into it.

quite true a little research has revealed...

Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes,
transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person,
or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or
interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign
government to the detriment of the United States any classified
information

... will have their ass hunted down and subject to a firing squad (paraphrased)

from...

U.S.C PART I - CRIMES - CHAPTER 37 - ESPIONAGE AND CENSORSHIP Sec. 798. Disclosure of classified information

I don't think it is that simple. Federal law cannot supersede the constitutionally guaranteed freedom of the press...this would have to be ruled on by SCOTUS. I'm also not sure you can consider Assuange "the press".

schenck vs US establishes that crimes under the espionage act are not acts of free speech protected by the constitution.

 

[goldcatt]

quite true a little research has revealed...



... will have their ass hunted down and subject to a firing squad (paraphrased)

from...

U.S.C PART I - CRIMES - CHAPTER 37 - ESPIONAGE AND CENSORSHIP Sec. 798. Disclosure of classified information

I don't think it is that simple. Federal law cannot supersede the constitutionally guaranteed freedom of the press...this would have to be ruled on by SCOTUS. I'm also not sure you can consider Assuange "the press".

schenck vs US establishes that crimes under the espionage act are not acts of free speech protected by the constitution.

Yep. And the freedom of press is just a derivative of individual speech rights. There are some complications, it would have to be proven that Assange assisted in obtaining the information in some way instead of simply disseminating it, but members of the press aren't immune from espionage charges.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

I know people are going to jump all over me for being too partisan but i still have to ask the question...Would the MSM being going this easy on Hillary Clinton is she were a Republican Secretary of State? They sure have given her a free pass on this one. I'm just not confident the MSM would give this same free pass to a Republican Secretary of State. Something else to think about i guess.

 

[Two Thumbs]

quite true a little research has revealed...



... will have their ass hunted down and subject to a firing squad (paraphrased)

from...

U.S.C PART I - CRIMES - CHAPTER 37 - ESPIONAGE AND CENSORSHIP Sec. 798. Disclosure of classified information

I don't think it is that simple. Federal law cannot supersede the constitutionally guaranteed freedom of the press...this would have to be ruled on by SCOTUS. I'm also not sure you can consider Assuange "the press".

Wikileaks would fall under freedom of press. But espionage is not trumped by the First, it is an exception to it.

I would disagree most strongly.

Freedom of the press is NOT the freedom to commit a crime.

I can't slap someone then hide behind freedom of speech by claiming that I was expressing my self.

It's a crime and the Constitution is not a shield.

 

[goldcatt]

I don't think it is that simple. Federal law cannot supersede the constitutionally guaranteed freedom of the press...this would have to be ruled on by SCOTUS. I'm also not sure you can consider Assuange "the press".

Wikileaks would fall under freedom of press. But espionage is not trumped by the First, it is an exception to it.

I would disagree most strongly.

Freedom of the press is NOT the freedom to commit a crime.

I can't slap someone then hide behind freedom of speech by claiming that I was expressing my self.

It's a crime and the Constitution is not a shield.

Exactly. Espionage is an exception to the First. In other words, Wikileaks can be a press entity all it wants, but espionage ain't covered under protected acts of speech or press.

 

[antagon]

Reminds me of BinLaden, et.al

How are these criminals releasing statements?

Can't someone track this kinda shit??

at this point, cant someone hack this kinda shit is more like it. where's our electronic warfare capabilities at?

or is this really just a hair in the soup... no real big deal.

 

[antagon]

I don't think it is that simple. Federal law cannot supersede the constitutionally guaranteed freedom of the press...this would have to be ruled on by SCOTUS. I'm also not sure you can consider Assuange "the press".

schenck vs US establishes that crimes under the espionage act are not acts of free speech protected by the constitution.

Yep. And the freedom of press is just a derivative of individual speech rights. There are some complications, it would have to be proven that Assange assisted in obtaining the information in some way instead of simply disseminating it, but members of the press aren't immune from espionage charges.

from that portion of the law i found, publication is out of bounds in itself. the caveat is knowing publication of classified docs. i'm betting this clown has gloated about publishing classified docs on media outlets sufficient to close the case there.

 

[Annie]

Okay, I'm starting to think this guy is funded by terrorists.

I don't know, but somewhere I read that his lawyer is connected with George Soros, so you might have a point.

 

[hortysir]

Reminds me of BinLaden, et.al

How are these criminals releasing statements?

Can't someone track this kinda shit??

at this point, cant someone hack this kinda shit is more like it. where's our electronic warfare capabilities at?

or is this really just a hair in the soup... no real big deal.

Right?!
I can't download shit without my ISP sending me a nasty-gram but these guys can do this?!!!

 

[antagon]

I know people are going to jump all over me for being too partisan but i still have to ask the question...Would the MSM being going this easy on Hillary Clinton is she were a Republican Secretary of State? They sure have given her a free pass on this one. I'm just not confident the MSM would give this same free pass to a Republican Secretary of State. Something else to think about i guess.

only an idiot would care. what does the secretary of state have to do with the leak or its contents? nothing leaked about her was really wrong from my perspective.

it just goes to show that in the name of partisanship someone could condone statements approaching ass-hangs about their own leadership.

 

[goldcatt]

schenck vs US establishes that crimes under the espionage act are not acts of free speech protected by the constitution.

Yep. And the freedom of press is just a derivative of individual speech rights. There are some complications, it would have to be proven that Assange assisted in obtaining the information in some way instead of simply disseminating it, but members of the press aren't immune from espionage charges.

from that portion of the law i found, publication is out of bounds in itself. the caveat is knowing publication of classified docs. i'm betting this clown has gloated about publishing classified docs on media outlets sufficient to close the case there.

I'll have to look up case law on that, but publication as a term of art is a little different than publication as we think of it in every day terms. There's also a little trickery around the knowing and willful standard as it relates to the source of the information. But you're right about his actions, it seems to indicate being involved at some level in an act that could be considered in furtherance.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The whole Wikileaks thing probably started out as a way of getting DA BOOOOOOOSH but instead it has hurt this Administration and especially Hillary Clinton. This Assange guy is a well known Anti-American Leftist weasel. That's why it has been so interesting watching our own Anti-American Leftists here calling for his head. I guess having that 'D' by their name is far more important to the Leftists here. I'm sure if a Republican was in there right now,our Anti-American Leftists here would be praising this Assange turd 24/7. Bet on that.

 

[Ravi]

quite true a little research has revealed...



... will have their ass hunted down and subject to a firing squad (paraphrased)

from...

U.S.C PART I - CRIMES - CHAPTER 37 - ESPIONAGE AND CENSORSHIP Sec. 798. Disclosure of classified information

I don't think it is that simple. Federal law cannot supersede the constitutionally guaranteed freedom of the press...this would have to be ruled on by SCOTUS. I'm also not sure you can consider Assuange "the press".

Wikileaks would fall under freedom of press. But espionage is not trumped by the First, it is an exception to it.

How does wikileaks qualify as the press?

Your second point, I am not seeing how printing something that was leaked is espionage. The person that leaked it was probably committing that. I was researching what happened with the Pentagon Papers and the NYT got off on a technicality...there was never a ruling on the basic issue.

 

[Ravi]

Okay, I'm starting to think this guy is funded by terrorists.

I don't know, but somewhere I read that his lawyer is connected with George Soros, so you might have a point.

The pfc or whatever he was was given top secret clearance by the Bush administration.

 

[shintao]

Hillary- did nothing wrong
Assange-insignificant. We are America...we will survive this as well
Gibbs on Fox ands Friends today- Artriculate and to the point. Not a fan of his, but today he told us the way it is. The Fox and Friuends crew acted like asses as they attacked him for his answers.

US- Best not to pursue this. We, America allowed it to happen. We need to be more careful. But on the same note, we should never feel it appropriate to attack a form of media for reporting the truth...even if we dont like it.

Next time...take more care tokeep classified docs...CLASSIFIED.

I kind of agree.... but..... for the record....

Manning (I will not give him a rank because he is a disgrace to his uniform) abused his security clearance to download the information. Are you saying that we should not trust our military - who are security cleared to the appropriate level for that information? WTF? It was not 'America's' fault.... it was one traitorous bastard within the military. He should face charges for treason - unfortunately that's highly unlikely. But he can be charged with espionage and he should go to prison for life. We should go after Assange, for espionage and put him in prison for life. And, just for the crack of it, we should also go after the NYT for their part. Send the editor to prison for life to - same charge.

Then, maybe, other people will realize that we do not take our national security as something to be fucked with.

Looking from a military standpoint, Manning should be locked away so far in a federal prison they have to pump him sunlight. He is a traitor, like so many other traitors we allow to roam free in our government, because they are from the "other world" of elites. Manning would surely use that knowledge as a precedent to show if it is good enough for the geese, it is good enough for him. You can't have it both ways,..........well yes you can!!!

 

[Ravi]

Hillary- did nothing wrong
Assange-insignificant. We are America...we will survive this as well
Gibbs on Fox ands Friends today- Artriculate and to the point. Not a fan of his, but today he told us the way it is. The Fox and Friuends crew acted like asses as they attacked him for his answers.

US- Best not to pursue this. We, America allowed it to happen. We need to be more careful. But on the same note, we should never feel it appropriate to attack a form of media for reporting the truth...even if we dont like it.

Next time...take more care tokeep classified docs...CLASSIFIED.

I kind of agree.... but..... for the record....

Manning (I will not give him a rank because he is a disgrace to his uniform) abused his security clearance to download the information. Are you saying that we should not trust our military - who are security cleared to the appropriate level for that information? WTF? It was not 'America's' fault.... it was one traitorous bastard within the military. He should face charges for treason - unfortunately that's highly unlikely. But he can be charged with espionage and he should go to prison for life. We should go after Assange, for espionage and put him in prison for life. And, just for the crack of it, we should also go after the NYT for their part. Send the editor to prison for life to - same charge.

Then, maybe, other people will realize that we do not take our national security as something to be fucked with.

Looking from a military standpoint, Manning should be locked away so far in a federal prison they have to pump him sunlight. He is a traitor, like so many other traitors we allow to roam free in our government, because they are from the "other world" of elites. Manning would surely use that knowledge as a precedent to show if it is good enough for the geese, it is good enough for him. You can't have it both ways,..........well yes you can!!!

He's been in prison since May.