As a libertarian I support your choices.

[Blues Man]

Everyone who has finished 3rd grade knows that life isn't fair

Oh the life isn't fair guy, ok great debate bro you nailed it

I just got sick of your fucking whining

I can't stand whining which is why I don't have kids

Whining lol. Basically what you're saying is no one can raise any issues with government. Accept it or shut up right? Yeah sorry that's not how America was set up. There's a reason why the first right they protected for us in the constitution was the right to free speech otherwise we would never be able to change a fucking thing and that's called tyranny.

Raise all the issues you want just don't whine like a 5 year old when you do.

IT"S NOT FAIR

Are you stamping your feet when you type that?

How else do we debate taxation? By fair I mean making it the most beneficial and least detrimental for everyone in the country. It's not even remotely the same as saying wahhhh life isn't fairrrrrr I didn't get to go to the beach todayyyy

Use the word equitable .

The word fair is subjective and loaded with too many emotional connotations

But why do I get the feeling that if your property taxes were doubled because you have kids in public school and mine were lowered because I don't have kids in public school that you would say that it wasn't "fair"?

The truth of the matter is that everyone benefits from a better educated populace; even people who don't have kids

 

[Blues Man]

I mean there's literally a tax proposal floated around called the FAIR TAX. It's not about whining it's just about making it the best proposal for everyone

It's a loaded title because people don't want to call it what it is; a National Sales Tax.

And the idea of sending a check to every person in the country at the beginning of every month is beyond stupid

 

[gipper]

How can any American disagree with the following statement? Our government does the bidding of the extreme wealthy. There is no logical opposing argument.

Remember Jefferson’s statement in the Declaration, consent of the governed? They don’t believe they have consent. This is why the people elected O and Donnie, only to be disappointed each time. It’s not the potus, it’s the system that is the problem. I believe we can change the system from benefiting the extreme wealthy, to benefiting all Americans.

On this we can agree. Where we disagree is, you seem to want a revolution whereas I want an evolution.

Talking solely economics, I don't see the GOP as making any fundamental changes whereas someone like AOC clearly would. I'm not saying she's right or I support her but I think with a Dem Congress and Presidency, she'd push the Dems to bring fundamental change to the system. Evolution is safe and sure, revolution is dangerous and could get us a Lenin.

A revolution doesn’t have to be violent. I am not an advocate of violence of any sort. Sadly, our central government has no qualms resorting to violence.

I agree with you about AOC. I am more than willing to listen to her opinions and policy suggestions. The fact that most of the media, the leadership of both criminal parties, and the entire right wing consider her a crank, makes me want to hear more from her.

However, I can’t agree that the Ds will do any better. They are owned and controlled by the Ruling Class, just as the Rs are. Secondly, there are several Rs on Congress who advocate for change, much like AOC. They are in the minority, just like AOC.

 

[alang1216]

The rebels of the colonial period didn't wait around for an "evolution" they took matters into their own hands because it was a tyrannical empire they were up against. I don't know if you've noticed but the US is an empire and we may not agree on whether or not it flirts with tyranny but if you think there's still any chance whatsoever that there will be an evolution when the media is hell bent on keeping us as divided and hateful toward each other as possible then I feel really bad for you

Why do you think a revolution will turn out like the one against the British (how many died in that one?) and not like the French or Russian Revolutions?

And thanks, I feel really bad for me too.

 

[Paulie]

Oh the life isn't fair guy, ok great debate bro you nailed it

I just got sick of your fucking whining

I can't stand whining which is why I don't have kids

Whining lol. Basically what you're saying is no one can raise any issues with government. Accept it or shut up right? Yeah sorry that's not how America was set up. There's a reason why the first right they protected for us in the constitution was the right to free speech otherwise we would never be able to change a fucking thing and that's called tyranny.

Raise all the issues you want just don't whine like a 5 year old when you do.

IT"S NOT FAIR

Are you stamping your feet when you type that?

How else do we debate taxation? By fair I mean making it the most beneficial and least detrimental for everyone in the country. It's not even remotely the same as saying wahhhh life isn't fairrrrrr I didn't get to go to the beach todayyyy

Use the word equitable .

The word fair is subjective and loaded with too many emotional connotations

But why do I get the feeling that if your property taxes were doubled because you have kids in public school and mine were lowered because I don't have kids in public school that you would say that it wasn't "fair"?

The truth of the matter is that everyone benefits from a better educated populace; even people who don't have kids

I literally just said earlier that if my neighbor doesn't have kids, why should he pay the same as me? If my taxes would be raised if I had a second child then I would have a really good reason to consider whether or not I wanted to have another one and I would responsibility make that choice either way. And if I had another I would keep my mouth shut about it because that's what I advocated for to begin with. I mean fuck, maybe it would keep people from irresponsibly popping kids out that we all have to pay for when they go on assistance. But point taken about equitable rather than fair. I don't like to get into word semantics because that's beneath an intellectual debate but most of the morons in this country need to be spoken to like they're 5.

 

[Blues Man]

I just got sick of your fucking whining

I can't stand whining which is why I don't have kids

Whining lol. Basically what you're saying is no one can raise any issues with government. Accept it or shut up right? Yeah sorry that's not how America was set up. There's a reason why the first right they protected for us in the constitution was the right to free speech otherwise we would never be able to change a fucking thing and that's called tyranny.

Raise all the issues you want just don't whine like a 5 year old when you do.

IT"S NOT FAIR

Are you stamping your feet when you type that?

How else do we debate taxation? By fair I mean making it the most beneficial and least detrimental for everyone in the country. It's not even remotely the same as saying wahhhh life isn't fairrrrrr I didn't get to go to the beach todayyyy

Use the word equitable .

The word fair is subjective and loaded with too many emotional connotations

But why do I get the feeling that if your property taxes were doubled because you have kids in public school and mine were lowered because I don't have kids in public school that you would say that it wasn't "fair"?

The truth of the matter is that everyone benefits from a better educated populace; even people who don't have kids

I literally just said earlier that if my neighbor doesn't have kids, why should he pay the same as me? If my taxes would be raised if I had a second child then I would have a really good reason to consider whether or not I wanted to have another one and I would responsibility make that choice either way. And if I had another I would keep my mouth shut about it because that's what I advocated for to begin with. I mean fuck, maybe it would keep people from irresponsibly popping kids out that we all have to pay for when they go on assistance.

Why don't I believe you?

 

[Paulie]

Whining lol. Basically what you're saying is no one can raise any issues with government. Accept it or shut up right? Yeah sorry that's not how America was set up. There's a reason why the first right they protected for us in the constitution was the right to free speech otherwise we would never be able to change a fucking thing and that's called tyranny.

Raise all the issues you want just don't whine like a 5 year old when you do.

IT"S NOT FAIR

Are you stamping your feet when you type that?

How else do we debate taxation? By fair I mean making it the most beneficial and least detrimental for everyone in the country. It's not even remotely the same as saying wahhhh life isn't fairrrrrr I didn't get to go to the beach todayyyy

Use the word equitable .

The word fair is subjective and loaded with too many emotional connotations

But why do I get the feeling that if your property taxes were doubled because you have kids in public school and mine were lowered because I don't have kids in public school that you would say that it wasn't "fair"?

The truth of the matter is that everyone benefits from a better educated populace; even people who don't have kids

I literally just said earlier that if my neighbor doesn't have kids, why should he pay the same as me? If my taxes would be raised if I had a second child then I would have a really good reason to consider whether or not I wanted to have another one and I would responsibility make that choice either way. And if I had another I would keep my mouth shut about it because that's what I advocated for to begin with. I mean fuck, maybe it would keep people from irresponsibly popping kids out that we all have to pay for when they go on assistance.

Why don't I believe you?

I've been a libertarian since I was 19 years old I'm 39 now. I live my life exactly the way I debate with other people about the ideology. But trust me when I say i couldn't care less what you believe from me.

 

[Blues Man]

Raise all the issues you want just don't whine like a 5 year old when you do.

IT"S NOT FAIR

Are you stamping your feet when you type that?

How else do we debate taxation? By fair I mean making it the most beneficial and least detrimental for everyone in the country. It's not even remotely the same as saying wahhhh life isn't fairrrrrr I didn't get to go to the beach todayyyy

Use the word equitable .

The word fair is subjective and loaded with too many emotional connotations

But why do I get the feeling that if your property taxes were doubled because you have kids in public school and mine were lowered because I don't have kids in public school that you would say that it wasn't "fair"?

The truth of the matter is that everyone benefits from a better educated populace; even people who don't have kids

I literally just said earlier that if my neighbor doesn't have kids, why should he pay the same as me? If my taxes would be raised if I had a second child then I would have a really good reason to consider whether or not I wanted to have another one and I would responsibility make that choice either way. And if I had another I would keep my mouth shut about it because that's what I advocated for to begin with. I mean fuck, maybe it would keep people from irresponsibly popping kids out that we all have to pay for when they go on assistance.

Why don't I believe you?

I've been a libertarian since I was 19 years old I'm 39 now. I live my life exactly the way I debate with other people about the ideology. But trust me when I say i couldn't care less what you believe from me.

when you start paying more because of what you believe you'll change your tune. If you lost all your federal and state income tax credits for your kids and all your local taxes increased because you have kids I know you'd be singing a different tune.

It's not an insult it's just human nature

But it's a safe place when you know that our government will never adopt a truly libertarian stance.

 

[Darkwind]

"What about"ism is no defense. The Dems are no better than the GOP but their economic priorities are more aimed at the lower and middle classes than are the GOP's priorities.

That is not out of a sense of compassion. They aim their policies at the lower class for power and money because it is a larger demographic than the middle or upper class..

You have it backwards. The power and money reside in the upper class and the lower class generally don't vote so their numbers are meaningless.

That is incorrect. Nearly 50% of the population is what I term (Tax-exempt). They are that way because Democrats want and crave power. They achieve that power by giving away free stuff at the expense of the productive class.

When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can ALWAYS count on Paul's vote.

 

[Paulie]

How else do we debate taxation? By fair I mean making it the most beneficial and least detrimental for everyone in the country. It's not even remotely the same as saying wahhhh life isn't fairrrrrr I didn't get to go to the beach todayyyy

Use the word equitable .

The word fair is subjective and loaded with too many emotional connotations

But why do I get the feeling that if your property taxes were doubled because you have kids in public school and mine were lowered because I don't have kids in public school that you would say that it wasn't "fair"?

The truth of the matter is that everyone benefits from a better educated populace; even people who don't have kids

I literally just said earlier that if my neighbor doesn't have kids, why should he pay the same as me? If my taxes would be raised if I had a second child then I would have a really good reason to consider whether or not I wanted to have another one and I would responsibility make that choice either way. And if I had another I would keep my mouth shut about it because that's what I advocated for to begin with. I mean fuck, maybe it would keep people from irresponsibly popping kids out that we all have to pay for when they go on assistance.

Why don't I believe you?

I've been a libertarian since I was 19 years old I'm 39 now. I live my life exactly the way I debate with other people about the ideology. But trust me when I say i couldn't care less what you believe from me.

when you start paying more because of what you believe you'll change your tune. If you lost all your federal and state income tax credits for your kids and all your local taxes increased because you have kids I know you'd be singing a different tune.

It's not an insult it's just human nature

But it's a safe place when you know that our government will never adopt a truly libertarian stance.

I have 1 kid that's got 6 more years of school left and im snipped so this proposal literally doesn't hurt me one bit and in fact would be a nice little boost after he finishes and I could put the savings toward his college.

 

[gipper]

"What about"ism is no defense. The Dems are no better than the GOP but their economic priorities are more aimed at the lower and middle classes than are the GOP's priorities.

That is not out of a sense of compassion. They aim their policies at the lower class for power and money because it is a larger demographic than the middle or upper class..

You have it backwards. The power and money reside in the upper class and the lower class generally don't vote so their numbers are meaningless.

That is incorrect. Nearly 50% of the population is what I term (Tax-exempt). They are that way because Democrats want and crave power. They achieve that power by giving away free stuff at the expense of the productive class.

When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can ALWAYS count on Paul's vote.

Yes...our politicians makes sure to give the wealthy class everything they demand, so that the campaign donations are very lucrative and the rich get richer.

I don’t understand why average Americans fail to see the fraud being committed before their eyes. How the F can they blame the poor, when the wealthy are robbing us all?

 

[Darkwind]

"What about"ism is no defense. The Dems are no better than the GOP but their economic priorities are more aimed at the lower and middle classes than are the GOP's priorities.

That is not out of a sense of compassion. They aim their policies at the lower class for power and money because it is a larger demographic than the middle or upper class..

You have it backwards. The power and money reside in the upper class and the lower class generally don't vote so their numbers are meaningless.

That is incorrect. Nearly 50% of the population is what I term (Tax-exempt). They are that way because Democrats want and crave power. They achieve that power by giving away free stuff at the expense of the productive class.

When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can ALWAYS count on Paul's vote.

Yes...our politicians makes sure to give the wealthy class everything they demand, so that the campaign donations are very lucrative and the rich get richer.

I don’t understand why average Americans fail to see the fraud being committed before their eyes. How the F can they blame the poor, when the wealthy are robbing us all?

Two things.

No one is blaming the poor. We are blaming Democrats and to some extent, Republicans. The politicians.

The other thing is that the rich are NOT robbing any of us. No rich person has ever taken a thing from Me. You have to have some kind of mental disorder to think that you have a right to other people's time and possesions.

The rich have benefits of being rich, to be sure. That is why people want to be rich, or at least wealthy enough that they can stop worrying about some of the more mundane things in life.

But the discussion is on politicians and their lies about being altruistic toward the bottom half of society. In sheer numbers alone, the bottom half of our society control the voting majorities. That is where the real power is and Democrats know it. So they give away the store -- just look at all the ridiculous promises being made by Democrat candidates right now -- for the votes that will keep them in power. In addition to this bit of dishonesty, they also kowtow to the rich and Wall Street. That makes them no worse and certainly no better than the Republicans.

Plain and simple. Both parties suck, but the Democrats are far and away worse than the Republicans.

 

[alang1216]

"What about"ism is no defense. The Dems are no better than the GOP but their economic priorities are more aimed at the lower and middle classes than are the GOP's priorities.

That is not out of a sense of compassion. They aim their policies at the lower class for power and money because it is a larger demographic than the middle or upper class..

You have it backwards. The power and money reside in the upper class and the lower class generally don't vote so their numbers are meaningless.

That is incorrect. Nearly 50% of the population is what I term (Tax-exempt). They are that way because Democrats want and crave power. They achieve that power by giving away free stuff at the expense of the productive class.

When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can ALWAYS count on Paul's vote.

Re: Nearly 50% of the population is what I term (Tax-exempt)

Are these people getting "free stuff" or getting back what they've already contributed (e.g., SS & Medicare)

 

[dblack]

when you start paying more because of what you believe you'll change your tune. If you lost all your federal and state income tax credits for your kids and all your local taxes increased because you have kids I know you'd be singing a different tune.

It's not an insult it's just human nature.

Believe it or not, some of us shoot for a little higher than "human nature". You should try it.

 

[Darkwind]

"What about"ism is no defense. The Dems are no better than the GOP but their economic priorities are more aimed at the lower and middle classes than are the GOP's priorities.

That is not out of a sense of compassion. They aim their policies at the lower class for power and money because it is a larger demographic than the middle or upper class..

You have it backwards. The power and money reside in the upper class and the lower class generally don't vote so their numbers are meaningless.

That is incorrect. Nearly 50% of the population is what I term (Tax-exempt). They are that way because Democrats want and crave power. They achieve that power by giving away free stuff at the expense of the productive class.

When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can ALWAYS count on Paul's vote.

Re: Nearly 50% of the population is what I term (Tax-exempt)

Are these people getting "free stuff" or getting back what they've already contributed (e.g., SS & Medicare)

They get more in their return than they pay, and they definitely do NOT pay into the government services they may utilize.

 

[Blues Man]

when you start paying more because of what you believe you'll change your tune. If you lost all your federal and state income tax credits for your kids and all your local taxes increased because you have kids I know you'd be singing a different tune.

It's not an insult it's just human nature.

Believe it or not, some of us shoot for a little higher than "human nature". You should try it.

And yet we never really seem to get past it do we?

What's the prayer the drunks in AA sat all the time?

 

[alang1216]

Re: Nearly 50% of the population is what I term (Tax-exempt)

Are these people getting "free stuff" or getting back what they've already contributed (e.g., SS & Medicare)

They get more in their return than they pay, and they definitely do NOT pay into the government services they may utilize.

Doesn't sound accurate to me. Is this your gut talking or do you have a link?

 

[dblack]

when you start paying more because of what you believe you'll change your tune. If you lost all your federal and state income tax credits for your kids and all your local taxes increased because you have kids I know you'd be singing a different tune.

It's not an insult it's just human nature.

Believe it or not, some of us shoot for a little higher than "human nature". You should try it.

And yet we never really seem to get past it do we?

What's the prayer the drunks in AA sat all the time?

I'm not sure. But I bet it doesn't involve "giving in" to human nature.

Listen, if you want to make excuses for the concessions you've made - fine. But don't assume everyone else has given up as well. Many of us haven't.

 

[Blues Man]

when you start paying more because of what you believe you'll change your tune. If you lost all your federal and state income tax credits for your kids and all your local taxes increased because you have kids I know you'd be singing a different tune.

It's not an insult it's just human nature.

Believe it or not, some of us shoot for a little higher than "human nature". You should try it.

And yet we never really seem to get past it do we?

What's the prayer the drunks in AA sat all the time?

I'm not sure. But I bet it doesn't involve "giving in" to human nature.

Listen, if you want to make excuses for the concessions you've made - fine. But don't assume everyone else has given up as well. Many of us haven't.

Concessions?

You make the same ones because you comply with the laws of the current system so don't tell me you haven't made the same co cessions as everyone else.

If you were as good a moral icon as you think you are you would not comply with anything you deemed unjust but you comply just like the rest of us

Like I said libertarianism is a safe place when you know that none of it will ever be implemented

 

[dblack]

when you start paying more because of what you believe you'll change your tune. If you lost all your federal and state income tax credits for your kids and all your local taxes increased because you have kids I know you'd be singing a different tune.

It's not an insult it's just human nature.

Believe it or not, some of us shoot for a little higher than "human nature". You should try it.

And yet we never really seem to get past it do we?

What's the prayer the drunks in AA sat all the time?

I'm not sure. But I bet it doesn't involve "giving in" to human nature.

Listen, if you want to make excuses for the concessions you've made - fine. But don't assume everyone else has given up as well. Many of us haven't.

Concessions?

You make the same ones because you comply with the laws of the current system so don't tell me you haven't made the same co cessions as everyone else.

If you were as good a moral icon as you think you are you would not comply with anything you deemed unjust but you comply just like the rest of us

Like I said libertarianism is a safe place when you know that none of it will ever be implemented

And I'm saying you're wrong to assume that libertarians don't really mean it - that, when push comes to shove, we'll vote out of pure self-interest. Some of us care about the broader picture. Some of are perfectly willing to sacrifice whatever perks we might enjoy under the current system in exchange for a freer society.