Arrest in attempted MLK Day bombing in Spokane

[Trajan]

I think you are out in left field somewhere, with your head stuck down a gopher hole.

What point are you trying to make about what I said?

I thought that possibly he was making light of your modifier. For the mentality of a white supremacist bomber is no different than the mentality of a black liberation army bomber. Any fuckwad willing to use bombs at a parade where the fucking things are likely to kill innocent people, including children, is a lowlife scumbag moron.

In other words, the modifier "white supremacist" before "bomber" is irrelevant. True, they are fucking idiot scumbags, but so would be ANYbody willing to do that regardless of their skin color or the basis of their vile hatreds.

Of course, Trajan might not agree with how I phrased any of this. He can proverbial kick my ass for speaking out of turn.

Could be...my comment was directed at our resident white supremacists, the ones that start thread after thread about how skin color determines intelligence.

hence post #11.

 

[Ravi]

not at all Bluto, (you're on a roll... especially right behind a classic JB troll... ( which I really don't see as a bad troll, actually)....in fact you can go any number of ways here, JB alludes to a point where in Islam supposedly takes a hit on a report of a bombing or possible bombing, then we get ravi's follow up on whitey suppey who has no protection what so ever because some see it as always fashionable to name that spade a spade.

You still aren't making any sense...but are you trying to say I shouldn't have labeled white supremacists white? Are you trying to say that the reason white supremacists are usually white is because of something that isn't racial?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I wonder what this failed bombing attempt says about the IQ of white supremacists.

What does the successful terrorist attack in Germany say about the IQ of Muslims?

How about the successful Ft. Hood terrorist attack? The failed DC Bomber terrorist attack?

What does the failed bombing of DC police cars say of the IQ of Bill Ayers, and his disciple Barack Obama?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Can you say "LONG PRISON SENTENCE?" If he did it, that's what we should all be hoping he gets.

This was a terrorist attack with the attempt to kill and maim large numbers of people - why on earth would you not support death as a penalty?

 

[Liability]

Can you say "LONG PRISON SENTENCE?" If he did it, that's what we should all be hoping he gets.

This was a terrorist attack with the attempt to kill and maim large numbers of people - why on earth would you not support death as a penalty?

It didn't even occur to me that (A) Washington State would have a death penalty or that (B) even if they did, they would have one for a crime where no death was caused.

I'm not a major fan of the death penalty anyway. In my estimation, it should exist for only the very most dire of criminal filth, like a guy who has already gotten a bunch of life sentences with no chance of parole, but who can then kill with impunity in prison sure that there is nothing worse the State can do to him. Those critters have to have SOMETHING to hang over their heads or they can kill correction guards and even fellow inmates without concern of retribution. "What are you gonna do, give me ANOTHER life sentence?"

EDIT:

I found a link that says that Washington State DOES have a death penalty but that it cannot be imposed for a crime that does not involve a murder.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-penalty/death-penalty-in-states/map/page.do?id=1011331&st=WA&sid=47

 

[JBeukema]

Can you say "LONG PRISON SENTENCE?" If he did it, that's what we should all be hoping he gets.

This was a terrorist attack with the attempt to kill and maim large numbers of people - why on earth would you not support death as a penalty?

It didn't even occur to me that (A) Washington State would have a death penalty or that (B) even if they did, they would have one for a crime where no death was caused.

I'm not a major fan of the death penalty anyway. In my estimation, it should exist for only the very most dire of criminal filth, like a guy who has already gotten a bunch of life sentences with no chance of parole, but who can then kill with impunity in prison sure that there is nothing worse the State can do to him. Those critters have to have SOMETHING to hang over their heads or they can kill correction guards and even fellow inmates without concern of retribution. "What are you gonna do, give me ANOTHER life sentence?"

EDIT:

I found a link that says that Washington State DOES have a death penalty but that it cannot be imposed for a crime that does not involve a murder.

Washington Death Penalty

Attempted murder excluded?

 

[Liability]

This was a terrorist attack with the attempt to kill and maim large numbers of people - why on earth would you not support death as a penalty?

It didn't even occur to me that (A) Washington State would have a death penalty or that (B) even if they did, they would have one for a crime where no death was caused.

I'm not a major fan of the death penalty anyway. In my estimation, it should exist for only the very most dire of criminal filth, like a guy who has already gotten a bunch of life sentences with no chance of parole, but who can then kill with impunity in prison sure that there is nothing worse the State can do to him. Those critters have to have SOMETHING to hang over their heads or they can kill correction guards and even fellow inmates without concern of retribution. "What are you gonna do, give me ANOTHER life sentence?"

EDIT:

I found a link that says that Washington State DOES have a death penalty but that it cannot be imposed for a crime that does not involve a murder.

Washington Death Penalty

Attempted murder excluded?

I don't know. I'd have to check deeper. And frankly, I'm too lazy right now.

EDIT:

I got over my laziness long enough to ascertain the following:

RCW 10.95.030
Sentences for aggravated first degree murder.


(1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, any person convicted of the crime of aggravated first degree murder shall be sentenced to life imprisonment without possibility of release or parole. A person sentenced to life imprisonment under this section shall not have that sentence suspended, deferred, or commuted by any judicial officer and the indeterminate sentence review board or its successor may not parole such prisoner nor reduce the period of confinement in any manner whatsoever including but not limited to any sort of good-time calculation. The department of social and health services or its successor or any executive official may not permit such prisoner to participate in any sort of release or furlough program.

(2) If, pursuant to a special sentencing proceeding held under RCW 10.95.050, the trier of fact finds that there are not sufficient mitigating circumstances to merit leniency, the sentence shall be death. In no case, however, shall a person be sentenced to death if the person had an intellectual disability at the time the crime was committed, under the definition of intellectual disability set forth in (a) of this subsection. A diagnosis of intellectual disability shall be documented by a licensed psychiatrist or licensed psychologist designated by the court, who is an expert in the diagnosis and evaluation of intellectual disabilities. The defense must establish an intellectual disability by a preponderance of the evidence and the court must make a finding as to the existence of an intellectual disability.

* * * *

It LOOKS like the ONLY crime for which there is a death penalty option in Washington State, therefore, is "aggravated murder" which is a first degree murder coupled with one or more of the aggravating factors the law spells out in other spots.

So, it appears to me that there is no death penalty for attempted murder, there.

But I'm not admitted in Washington State, so I can't really offer any meaningful legal opinion.

 

[JBeukema]

Personally, I think attempted murder and murder should carry the exact same sentence. If I try to stab you, why should I get a lesser sentence just because I tripped over a rock and fell as you ran away?

 

[Ravi]

Personally, I think attempted murder and murder should carry the exact same sentence. If I try to stab you, why should I get a lesser sentence just because I tripped over a rock and fell as you ran away?

I always knew you were a fan of big brother.

 

[manifold]

Personally, I think attempted murder and murder should carry the exact same sentence. If I try to stab you, why should I get a lesser sentence just because I tripped over a rock and fell as you ran away?

Because outcome matters. There's really no need to overcomplicate it.

 

[JBeukema]

Personally, I think attempted murder and murder should carry the exact same sentence. If I try to stab you, why should I get a lesser sentence just because I tripped over a rock and fell as you ran away?

Because outcome matters. There's really no need to overcomplicate it.

So if Giffords walks again it somehow retroactively makes what Loughner did not so bad anymore?

What if everyone Hitler killed went to heaven as martyrs, even though they weren't sinless and wouldn't have seen heaven if they hadn't become martyrs? Does the Holocaust somehow become a good thing?

Some to think of it, wasn't that how the Morons justified their crimes back in the old days?

 

[JBeukema]

Is slavery better than abolition because of the outcome for their descendants nowadays?

 

[Liability]

If the point of criminalizing and punishing an "attempt" crime is to persuade the offenders (or intended offenders) "not to do that," then it makes some logical sense to punish an attempted murderer exactly as much as you would have punished the murderer.

 

[manifold]

Personally, I think attempted murder and murder should carry the exact same sentence. If I try to stab you, why should I get a lesser sentence just because I tripped over a rock and fell as you ran away?

Because outcome matters. There's really no need to overcomplicate it.

So if Giffords walks again it somehow retroactively makes what Loughner did not so bad anymore?

What if everyone Hitler killed went to heaven as martyrs, even though they weren't sinless and wouldn't have seen heaven if they hadn't become martyrs? Does the Holocaust somehow become a good thing?

Some to think of it, wasn't that how the Morons justified their crimes back in the old days?

I sure hope you didn't intend for this to pass for a serious post because if so, massive fail.


Outcome matters =/= Outcome is ALL that matters.

Your original post I replied to endorses the idea that outcome doesn't matter. And that IMO, is an INSANE argument.

 

[JBeukema]

If the point of criminalizing and punishing an "attempt" crime is to persuade the offenders (or intended offenders) "not to do that,"

Isn't that the general idea behind making anything illegal? 'Don't kill one of us or we'll take collective action against you and lock you in cell to rot or hang you from a tree'?

If someone does do it, that collective action (in theory) prevents them from doing it again.

 

[Liability]

If the point of criminalizing and punishing an "attempt" crime is to persuade the offenders (or intended offenders) "not to do that,"

Isn't that the general idea behind making anything illegal? 'Don't kill one of us or we'll take collective action against you and lock you in cell to rot or hang you from a tree'?

If someone does do it, that collective action (in theory) prevents them from doing it again.

It is the general idea. But we still make distinctions.

We TEND to believe, for example, that committing a murder is actually worse than attempting to commit a murder and failing. And the big difference? The "victim" has survived. The happy fortuitous survival of the would-be victim may not be enough in pure logic to justify treating the attempted murderer differently than the murderer --

Yet, an attempted murder doesn't get you executed in Washington State even if committed with one or more of the aggravating factors. A completed murder, if committed with one or more of the aggravating factors, COULD get you executed in Washington State.

 

[Sheldon]

I think you're seeing this as a false dichotomy. This guy if found guilty is still probably going to jail for a long ass time, even though he didn't murder anybody. Attempt is still punished in our system. Had people actually been injured and or killed by the bomb, he'd face an even worse punishment.

edit--what Liability said

 

[JBeukema]

If the point of criminalizing and punishing an "attempt" crime is to persuade the offenders (or intended offenders) "not to do that,"

Isn't that the general idea behind making anything illegal? 'Don't kill one of us or we'll take collective action against you and lock you in cell to rot or hang you from a tree'?

If someone does do it, that collective action (in theory) prevents them from doing it again.

It is the general idea. But we still make distinctions.

We TEND to believe, for example, that committing a murder is actually worse than attempting to commit a murder and failing.

Yet we treat telling someone else to commit murder the same as murdering someone?

And the big difference? The "victim" has survived.

Not for lack of trying by the criminal. The criminal has committed the exact same act- 'acts of god' or probability are outside his control. If a rocket fell in Times Square but didn't detonate, would we treat whoever tried to nuke New York any differently than if they had succeeded? That would be absurd.

The happy fortuitous survival of the would-be victim may not be enough in pure logic to justify treating the attempted murderer differently than the murderer --

Yet, an attempted murder doesn't get you executed in Washington State even if committed with one or more of the aggravating factors

because they don't honestly think murder is all that bad and they're only acting out of emotion when you succeed and they give you a worst sentence than the guy next to you who forgot to tie his shoes and fell, leaving the victim permanently scarred yet alive?

'We feel your incompetence is itself a punishment, so giving you a full sentence would be double jeopardy'? How does that make the slightest bit of sense?

Negligent versus willful homicide is another matter, of course.

 

[Uncensored2008]

EDIT:

I found a link that says that Washington State DOES have a death penalty but that it cannot be imposed for a crime that does not involve a murder.

Washington Death Penalty

I just find terrorist acts which indiscriminately target large groups of innocent people to be heinous and deserving of the most stringent punishment we have.

If you try to bomb a crowd of people, you don't deserve to live.

 

[CaféAuLait]

I wonder what this failed bombing attempt says about the IQ of white supremacists.

Failed bombers (and successful which killed at least three) are held in pretty high esteem by many on the left. Bill Ayers comes to mind. In fact he pens books on his failures and successes and how he would do it all over again and he is teaching our children in college while doing so.

No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives; In a Memoir of Sorts, a War Protester Talks of Life With the Weathermen

No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives - In a Memoir of Sorts, a War Protester Talks of Life With the Weathermen - NYTimes.com

The bombing that failed was meant to kill soldiers and their families.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)

While others damaged police stations, the Pentagon, Capitol, etc.

Glad the man/men in the OP were caught. They should be jailed and never held in a position of respect or authority IMO.