Argument For The Death Penalty

[protectionist]

Here's a toilet that took 40 year and a few lives to flush. Why?

Knight’s dark history

July 17, 1974 – Thomas Knight kidnaps and murders Sydney and Lillian Gans of Bay Harbor Islands. He is immediately arrested.

September 1974 – Knight and 10 other inmates escape from Dade County jail. He is placed on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted List.

October 1974 – Police believe Knight and another man fatally shoot a liquor store clerk during a robbery for $641 in Crisp County, GA. He is not charged.

December 1974 – FBI agents capture Knight in New Smyrna Beach. He is found with a shotgun and two pistols, all stolen.

April 1976 – A Miami-Dade jury convicts Knight of murdering the couple. He is sentenced to death.

October 1980 – Using a sharpened spoon, Knight stabs and kills corrections Officer Richard Burke at the Florida State Prison in Starke.

March 1981 – Knight is scheduled to be executed after Gov. Lawton Chiles signs his death warrant. A federal judge stays his execution pending more appeals.

January 1983 – Knight is convicted and sentenced to death for the Burke murder.

January 1996 – A federal appeals court overturns his death sentence in the Gans case, ordering a new penalty phase trial.

February 1996 – After a new sentencing phase, Knight is again sentenced to death. He is repeatedly banned from the courtroom because of his disruptive behavior.

March 2006 – With state courts repeatedly affirming his conviction and sentence, Knight’s lawyers appeal to a Miami federal judge.

November 2012 – Six years after the appeal was first filed, Miami U.S. Judge Adalberto Jordan reverses Knight’s death sentence. He orders a new sentencing hearing or life sentences for the convict.

September 2013 – A federal appeals court reverses Judge Jordan, reinstating the death penalty for Knight. “To learn about the gridlock and inefficiency of death penalty litigation, look no further than this appeal,” the court writes.

October 2013 – Gov. Rick Scott signs death warrant for Knight, not for the Miami-Dade murders but for the slaying of Burke. The execution is scheduled for Dec. 3.

November 2013 – The Florida Supreme Court delays the execution, ordering a Bradford judge to hold a hearing to consider whether a new drug used in the lethal injection procedure constitutes cruel and unusual punishment.

December 2013 – The state’s high court lifts the stay of execution after ruling Knight has failed to prove the drug is unsafe. Gov. Rick Scott re-schedules the execution for Jan. 7.

Jacksonville.Com

"Florida executes Askari Abdullah Muhammad (Thomas Knight) for killing guard, couple,"

Liberal lunacy. He should have been executed no later than 1976. Officer Richard Burke at the Florida State Prison in Starke would never have been killed.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Genesis 9:6 “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God Has God made mankind."

Yet God only exiled Cain...

Matthew 7...................
Why does the murder rate decline when states get rid of the death penalty ?
To me it is not an obvious outcome.
The murder rates are declining overall in states where there is execution and in those where there isnt.
Suggests to me that at the very least there is no case for execution.

 

[Muhammed]

Horrific crimes such as rape, murder and voter fraud should all be punished via the death penalty.

 

[Montrovant]

I'm against the death penalty, but I am all for life without the possibility of parole. I don't think it's appropriate to grant a murderer parole, or a child molester. If a child molester can do THAT to a child, who knows what else they would be capable of doing?

The "what else" you speak of could be done to fellow inmates in the prison. And it IS done to them, the record shows. Yes, the inmates have violated society's laws, but they are already paying their debt to society, just by being in the prison. They shouldn't be expected to endure molestation or murder also, or be subjected to it.

That's actually ChrisL in the quote, not me.

 

[Montrovant]

I think a person who would victimize a child or an old person (or disabled - people who cannot fight back for whatever reason) are pretty rotten to the core, no matter what the "reason" for the assault.

In Florida, battery on a senior citizen (65+) is a third degree felony - capable of 3 years in state prison Battery on those 64 of less, is a misdemeanor - 1 year county jail.

I think battery on children isn't even a crime all over the US. It is accepted in schools, and last I heard, really nasty in Catholic schools. Shouldn't be that way.

Battery against children is accepted in schools? What are you talking about?

 

[ChrisL]

I think a person who would victimize a child or an old person (or disabled - people who cannot fight back for whatever reason) are pretty rotten to the core, no matter what the "reason" for the assault.

In Florida, battery on a senior citizen (65+) is a third degree felony - capable of 3 years in state prison Battery on those 64 of less, is a misdemeanor - 1 year county jail.

I think battery on children isn't even a crime all over the US. It is accepted in schools, and last I heard, really nasty in Catholic schools. Shouldn't be that way.

I think you are wrong about that. Do you have a link?

 

[protectionist]

Why does the murder rate decline when states get rid of the death penalty ?
To me it is not an obvious outcome.
The murder rates are declining overall in states where there is execution and in those where there isnt.
Suggests to me that at the very least there is no case for execution.

Your perception of suggestion is downright weird. How can there be any connection between the case for executions and murder rates ? There simply is no connection (other than the persons executed)

If a decline in murder rates has any connection to anything, it's probably the rapid rise of CCW permits, and law-abiding gun carriers.

The only thing death penalty has a connection to, is an ELIMINATION of murder by those executed.

 

[protectionist]

That's actually ChrisL in the quote, not me.

Yes, it is in her Post # 64. Sometimes the names get mixed up in the posting. My apologies.

 

[protectionist]

Battery against children is accepted in schools? What are you talking about?

Poland in 1783 was the first nation to outlaw corporal punishment in schools. As of 2015, most industrialized countries have abolished the practice, with the exception of the United States. It is still in common use in a number of countries in Africa and Asia.

There is no federal law addressing corporal punishment in public or private schools. In 1977, the Supreme Court ruling in Ingraham v. Wright held that the Eighth Amendment clause prohibiting "cruel and unusual punishments" did not apply to school students, and that teachers could punish children without parental permission.

As of 2015, 31 states and the District of Columbia have banned corporal punishment in public schools, though in some of these there is no explicit prohibition. Corporal punishment is also unlawful in private schools in Iowa and New Jersey. In 19 U.S. states, corporal punishment is lawful in both public and private schools.[130]

School corporal punishment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[protectionist]

I think you are wrong about that. Do you have a link?

If you're talking about the battery on children accepted in schools in the US, that is addressed in the previous post.

 

[airplanemechanic]

You do realize that according to the DOJ, murderers have the lowest rate of recidivism, followed, believe it or not, by sex offenders?

Look it up.

I would imagine the lower sex offender recidivism rate is more due to low victim reporting rate than to actual offender recidivism.

And you would be wrong. Or at least unprovably wrong. To say, "Well, more molesters get away with it because of the low rate of reporting" assumes that ONLY with molestation do instances of the crime go unreported. Lots of times crimes are not reported. How many times does a husband beat a wife and nobody reports it? Does that mean it doesn't happen? Well, you can't say something happens based solely on the fact that, somewhere, somehow, someone got away with it. The low rate of recidivism among sex offenders is simply because they don't reoffend at a high rate. Society has enacted things like the sex offender registry that make you think these people are hiding in the bushes when in reality, its druggie thugs that have the highest recidivism rate, at over 60%. Murderers are about 3 percent and sex offenders about 5%. 85% of sex offenders offend for the first time not on the registry.

And the reason murderers have a low reoffense rate is complex. It's partly because most never get released, but if they do, their offense was not random. If someone attempts to steal your car and you fight him and wind up killing him while he's running away, you'll go down for murder. Does that mean you're what society would call a "murderer?" No, you didn't just randomly walk up to someone and put a cap in their ass. Most murderers know their victims and have a serious beef with them. They're not just serial killers. Serial killers never get released anyway.

Explain this. A murderer can get released from prison and live next to a school or daycare, never have to notify neighbors, never be put on a "murderer" registry, etc. A murderer can have a facebook account, a sex offender can't. But an 18yo with his 16yo gf is banned for life in some states. And we call this fair?

 

[Montrovant]

Battery against children is accepted in schools? What are you talking about?

Poland in 1783 was the first nation to outlaw corporal punishment in schools. As of 2015, most industrialized countries have abolished the practice, with the exception of the United States. It is still in common use in a number of countries in Africa and Asia.

There is no federal law addressing corporal punishment in public or private schools. In 1977, the Supreme Court ruling in Ingraham v. Wright held that the Eighth Amendment clause prohibiting "cruel and unusual punishments" did not apply to school students, and that teachers could punish children without parental permission.

As of 2015, 31 states and the District of Columbia have banned corporal punishment in public schools, though in some of these there is no explicit prohibition. Corporal punishment is also unlawful in private schools in Iowa and New Jersey. In 19 U.S. states, corporal punishment is lawful in both public and private schools.[130]

School corporal punishment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I did not realize corporal punishment remains legal anywhere in the country, not to mention actually still practiced.

I wouldn't classify it as battery, though. That term implies something different than corporal punishment, although there can be overlap.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Genesis 9:6 “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God Has God made mankind."

Yet God only exiled Cain...

Matthew 7...................
Why does the murder rate decline when states get rid of the death penalty ?
To me it is not an obvious outcome.
The murder rates are declining overall in states where there is execution and in those where there isnt.
Suggests to me that at the very least there is no case for execution.

Funny how those against killing murderers are for killing babies.

 

[Moonglow]

Genesis 9:6 “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God Has God made mankind."

Yet God only exiled Cain...

Matthew 7...................
Why does the murder rate decline when states get rid of the death penalty ?
To me it is not an obvious outcome.
The murder rates are declining overall in states where there is execution and in those where there isnt.
Suggests to me that at the very least there is no case for execution.

Funny how those against killing murderers are for killing babies.

Funny how you are wrong so much...

 

[Weatherman2020]

Genesis 9:6 “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God Has God made mankind."

Yet God only exiled Cain...

Matthew 7...................
Why does the murder rate decline when states get rid of the death penalty ?
To me it is not an obvious outcome.
The murder rates are declining overall in states where there is execution and in those where there isnt.
Suggests to me that at the very least there is no case for execution.

Funny how those against killing murderers are for killing babies.

Funny how you are wrong so much...

Yeah, that 1% I am wrong keeps me up at night.

 

[Moonglow]

Genesis 9:6 “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God Has God made mankind."

Yet God only exiled Cain...

Matthew 7...................
Why does the murder rate decline when states get rid of the death penalty ?
To me it is not an obvious outcome.
The murder rates are declining overall in states where there is execution and in those where there isnt.
Suggests to me that at the very least there is no case for execution.

Funny how those against killing murderers are for killing babies.

Funny how you are wrong so much...

Yeah, that 1% I am wrong keeps me up at night.

I can tell..

 

[Weatherman2020]

Yet God only exiled Cain...

Matthew 7...................
Why does the murder rate decline when states get rid of the death penalty ?
To me it is not an obvious outcome.
The murder rates are declining overall in states where there is execution and in those where there isnt.
Suggests to me that at the very least there is no case for execution.

Funny how those against killing murderers are for killing babies.

Funny how you are wrong so much...

Yeah, that 1% I am wrong keeps me up at night.

I can tell..

Wow, another personal attack. I'm impressed.

 

[Moonglow]

Matthew 7...................
Why does the murder rate decline when states get rid of the death penalty ?
To me it is not an obvious outcome.
The murder rates are declining overall in states where there is execution and in those where there isnt.
Suggests to me that at the very least there is no case for execution.

Funny how those against killing murderers are for killing babies.

Funny how you are wrong so much...

Yeah, that 1% I am wrong keeps me up at night.

I can tell..

Wow, another personal attack. I'm impressed.

Everything is a personal attack, since that is all you do..

 

[Si modo]

You do realize that according to the DOJ, murderers have the lowest rate of recidivism, followed, believe it or not, by sex offenders?

Look it up.

I would imagine the lower sex offender recidivism rate is more due to low victim reporting rate than to actual offender recidivism.

And you would be wrong. Or at least unprovably wrong. To say, "Well, more molesters get away with it because of the low rate of reporting" assumes that ONLY with molestation do instances of the crime go unreported. Lots of times crimes are not reported. How many times does a husband beat a wife and nobody reports it? Does that mean it doesn't happen? Well, you can't say something happens based solely on the fact that, somewhere, somehow, someone got away with it. The low rate of recidivism among sex offenders is simply because they don't reoffend at a high rate. Society has enacted things like the sex offender registry that make you think these people are hiding in the bushes when in reality, its druggie thugs that have the highest recidivism rate, at over 60%. Murderers are about 3 percent and sex offenders about 5%. 85% of sex offenders offend for the first time not on the registry.

And the reason murderers have a low reoffense rate is complex. It's partly because most never get released, but if they do, their offense was not random. If someone attempts to steal your car and you fight him and wind up killing him while he's running away, you'll go down for murder. Does that mean you're what society would call a "murderer?" No, you didn't just randomly walk up to someone and put a cap in their ass. Most murderers know their victims and have a serious beef with them. They're not just serial killers. Serial killers never get released anyway.

Explain this. A murderer can get released from prison and live next to a school or daycare, never have to notify neighbors, never be put on a "murderer" registry, etc. A murderer can have a facebook account, a sex offender can't. But an 18yo with his 16yo gf is banned for life in some states. And we call this fair?

With respect to sex offenders, when on probation, they have many more conditions of their probation than a thief, robber, or fraudster, for example. As such, they violate their probation more often than the run-of-the-mill offender and are reincarcerated for a probation violation. Most states measure recidivism rates using the commission of a NEW crime within a certain time period. Probation violations don't count.

Or, because sex offenders are a unique population to which double jeopardy don't apply - or at least a thin runaround double jeopardy can be used - because of the option of civil commitment, that would also contribute to less of a recidivism rate.

Many reasons possible, and I find it difficult to believe that their learning a lesson is a significant contribution to that low recidivism rate you allege exists.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Do you have any proof to backup your claim that sex offenders violate parole at a higher rate than anyone else or did you just pull that from out of your ass?