Are You More Or Less "Free" In A Society That

[Bern80]

You heard it here first:

My crystal ball tells me you will soon (say, within 5 years) be denied the following if you do not have a "good credit score", a number that BTW will keep rising.......

* College and grad school admissions.

* Life and health insurance (private policies, not employer groups).

* Parole, should you happen to be incarcerated and BTW, a good credit rating will get someone kicked back to us civilians faster no matter how irrational that decision might be.

* Eligibility for promotion in the military.

* You ability to hang on to your job. Look for your credit score to become a subject of discussion in annual performance reviews at Big Companies.

I think this is gonna catch on like wildfire and as long as you geniuses think "it's the fault of the guy with bad credit and he needs to fix it all by himself", you are so screwed.

BTW, look after the credit reports on your babies after one year and every year thereafter...the annual reports are free, you only have to request them.

You got it.

But, as you can see, the wingnut see this CLEARLY coming thing as "fear mongering."

This is because they look at these issues in the lense of "I gotta protect my stuff from the others." And we all know who those "others" are.

Low-Information people crack me up.

Sad though.

Until it happens, yes it's fear mongering.

I have applied for plenty of jobs and never had to provide a credit score. But so what if they did? You arguing that a bad credit score preventing you from getting a job is taking away your freedom is kind of like arguing there is some injustice to being denied a job as a brain surgeon because you don't know brain surgery. If a company thinks a good credit score is important for the job they are hiring you for, so be it. Frankly, I completely understand it. Your credit score tells people a lot about you. It is a reflection of your personal resposibility and your dependability.

Secondly, if your credit score was some randomly assigned number, you might have a point. But YOU control your credit score and it doesn't take any signifect effort to have a decent one. Mine is in the mid 700's. I have two credit cards that I pay more than the minumum on and pay my bills on time. Not hard. So you complain about your lost freedom over not getting a job because of a low credit score. It seems to me the only one anyone would have to blame for that is themselves.

 

[Liberty]

considering every american born now automatically has $40,000+ in debt, i'd say it's the governments fault that people are now economic slaves in what is supposed to be a free society.

 

[Madeline]

You heard it here first:

My crystal ball tells me you will soon (say, within 5 years) be denied the following if you do not have a "good credit score", a number that BTW will keep rising.......

* College and grad school admissions.

* Life and health insurance (private policies, not employer groups).

* Parole, should you happen to be incarcerated and BTW, a good credit rating will get someone kicked back to us civilians faster no matter how irrational that decision might be.

* Eligibility for promotion in the military.

* You ability to hang on to your job. Look for your credit score to become a subject of discussion in annual performance reviews at Big Companies.

I think this is gonna catch on like wildfire and as long as you geniuses think "it's the fault of the guy with bad credit and he needs to fix it all by himself", you are so screwed.

BTW, look after the credit reports on your babies after one year and every year thereafter...the annual reports are free, you only have to request them.

You got it.

But, as you can see, the wingnut see this CLEARLY coming thing as "fear mongering."

This is because they look at these issues in the lense of "I gotta protect my stuff from the others." And we all know who those "others" are.

Low-Information people crack me up.

Sad though.

Until it happens, yes it's fear mongering.

I have applied for plenty of jobs and never had to provide a credit score. But so what if they did? You arguing that a bad credit score preventing you from getting a job is taking away your freedom is kind of like arguing there is some injustice to being denied a job as a brain surgeon because you don't know brain surgery. If a company thinks a good credit score is important for the job they are hiring you for, so be it. Frankly, I completely understand it. Your credit score tells people a lot about you. It is a reflection of your personal resposibility and your dependability.

Secondly, if your credit score was some randomly assigned number, you might have a point. But YOU control your credit score and it doesn't take any signifect effort to have a decent one. Mine is in the mid 700's. I have two credit cards that I pay more than the minumum on and pay my bills on time. Not hard. So you complain about your lost freedom over not getting a job because of a low credit score. It seems to me the only one anyone would have to blame for that is themselves.

I'd be willing to bet that you have in fact released your credit report and just do not know it. On the sig line for an insurance policy, apartment lease or a job, there might be an asterick and waaaay down on the page, a little bitty message that signing authorizes them to pull your report. That's all they need; they already have your SSN.

If you dun believe me, pull your reports (there are three); one section lists everyone who has been sent a copy for the past year or so.

 

[Two Thumbs]

My crystal ball tells me you will soon (say, within 5 years) be denied the following if you do not have a "good credit score", a number that BTW will keep rising.......

* College and grad school admissions. If you can't pay the loan even after grants and scholarships. Why would you even go?

* Life and health insurance (private policies, not employer groups). I was an agent, I don't recall ever checking credit.

* Parole, should you happen to be incarcerated and BTW, a good credit rating will get someone kicked back to us civilians faster no matter how irrational that decision might be. You got a link to this. It sounds a little far fetched.

* Eligibility for promotion in the military. The miltary does not do that, unless it's a new practice. Why would they?

* You ability to hang on to your job. Utter BS. Look for your credit score to become a subject of discussion in annual performance reviews at Big Companies.

I think this is gonna catch on like wildfire and as long as you geniuses think "it's the fault of the guy with bad credit and he needs to fix it all by himself", you are so screwed. So no one should pay for the consequences of thier actions, but we should all pay? Is that what you are saying?

BTW, look after the credit reports on your babies after one year and every year thereafter...the annual reports are free, you only have to request them. sounds like a great idea.

 

[Madeline]

My crystal ball tells me you will soon (say, within 5 years) be denied the following if you do not have a "good credit score", a number that BTW will keep rising.......

* College and grad school admissions. If you can't pay the loan even after grants and scholarships. Why would you even go?

* Life and health insurance (private policies, not employer groups). I was an agent, I don't recall ever checking credit.

* Parole, should you happen to be incarcerated and BTW, a good credit rating will get someone kicked back to us civilians faster no matter how irrational that decision might be. You got a link to this. It sounds a little far fetched.

* Eligibility for promotion in the military. The miltary does not do that, unless it's a new practice. Why would they?

* You ability to hang on to your job. Utter BS. Look for your credit score to become a subject of discussion in annual performance reviews at Big Companies.

I think this is gonna catch on like wildfire and as long as you geniuses think "it's the fault of the guy with bad credit and he needs to fix it all by himself", you are so screwed. So no one should pay for the consequences of thier actions, but we should all pay? Is that what you are saying?

BTW, look after the credit reports on your babies after one year and every year thereafter...the annual reports are free, you only have to request them. sounds like a great idea.

Look at the effect of "credit underwriting" on various businesses and organizations for a moment. Not the person whose credit is rated; the third party they allowed to pull their report.

* First effect -- many applicants will never get in the door. No thought need be given to these people, and best of all, they themselves can be blamed.

* Second effect -- human judgment is almost unnecessary as this objective standard routine whittles down eligible people to so few, a day's work will most often suffice to allow a choice to be made. Ponder how joyous a Parole Board member would be if freed from any risk of future public backlash for a crappy decision?

* Banks and the credit reporting agencies will adore this. There is a fee for running a credit report. In fact, with a bit of ingenuity, any third party could make $5+ a pop and no one would notice. Profits without risk or capital...the businessman's dream.

* Mid-level managers can say "hey, not my fault, I was just following guidelines" when they fire or fail to promote. They will LOVE this idea.

* You'll whittle down those pesky applications from women, men of color and older people by fiat and no one will ever be able to accuse you of sexism, racism, ageism, etc. (People who earn less are at a higher risk of bad credit.)

You think this won't become MUCH more popular?

Think AGAIN.

 

[manifold]

Maddie is once again... off her bloody rocker batshit paranoid and insane.

One step away from the land of eots.

 

[MarcATL]

Madeline, it's useless...the MORANS simply don't respond to logic.

Just lookit them...

 

[Madeline]

Maddie is once again... off her bloody rocker batshit paranoid and insane.

One step away from the land of eots.

Mebbe so, mani. Time will tell. But riddle me this....do you have as much privacy as you had 5 years ago? As much freedom?

No one I knows does. Google would have made George Orwel so proud.

 

[Madeline]

Madeline, it's useless...the MORANS simply don't respond to logic.

Just lookit them...

Well, I have sympathy, Marc. People find this stuff paralyzingly scarey....and that's before we start to discuss biometrics and national ID cards.

 

[MikeK]

Decades ago, people actually had a sense of right & wrong, and carried a conscience, and worked for those things they wanted. Today, everyone is under the misguided assumption that they're "entitled".

While it's certainly true that in America the general senses of morality, social and personal responsibility have deteriorated significantly over recent generations, to say that "everyone" assumes they are "entitled" reveals a strong tendency toward neo-Conservative thinking, which essentially (and narrowly) seeks to exclude any form of entitlement.

 

[Madeline]

Decades ago, people actually had a sense of right & wrong, and carried a conscience, and worked for those things they wanted. Today, everyone is under the misguided assumption that they're "entitled".

While it's certainly true that in America the general senses of morality, social and personal responsibility have deteriorated significantly over recent generations, to say that "everyone" assumes they are "entitled" reveals a strong tendency toward neo-Conservative thinking, which essentially (and narrowly) seeks to exclude any form of entitlement.

Credit cards were uncommon before the 1980's. People had store cards, but not Mastercards, and for sure, college kids had none. Home equity lines of credit did not proliferate until the 1990's. Much easier to maintain financial sanity when there aren't 25 hours of slick advertising to use an insane financial product broadcast at you every 1,000 hours.

 

[manifold]

Mebbe so, mani. Time will tell. But riddle me this....do you have as much privacy as you had 5 years ago? As much freedom?

No one I knows does.

And what do you think Obamacare, which IIRC you support, is going to do to your privacy and freedom?

 

[Madeline]

Mebbe so, mani. Time will tell. But riddle me this....do you have as much privacy as you had 5 years ago? As much freedom?

No one I knows does.

And what do you think Obamacare, which IIRC you support, is going to do to your privacy and freedom?

Obamacare was far less than I had wanted, mani. I wanted a single payor, universal coverage system and I'm not even sure WTF to call Obamacare. Like everyone else, as time has passed and more analysis is done, I am less and less enthused about the new healthcare law. I would like to point out, the law now requires Electronic Medical Records from here on out. Eventually, we will all have our entire medical history recorded on a chip -- probably one embedded in our bodies.

We can brainstorm about the abuses that'll allow, but ATM seems unfair to hijack Marc's excellent Op about credit report abuses.

 

[hboats]

40 years ago credit wasn't as easily available as it is today. Of course as credit becomes more easily available credit ratings are going to be more important.

People used to live within their means. If they couldn't afford to buy a house they rented someplace that fit within their budget. Now people go out and buy houses that they can't possibly afford.

We didn't get 10 credit card applications a month in the mail. People didn't buy things on credit unless it was a house. Now everyone buys on credit. We have become a country of immediate gratification. I want it, and I want it now!!!!!! It doesn't matter if I can afford it or not, if I want it I should have it. Well, that's not a responsible way to go through life.

If you can't afford the house you want, buy the house you can afford or rent a place you can afford until you can buy the house you want. If you can't afford the Escalade buy the Tracker and save for the Escalade.

There is no reason for people to be as far in debt as they are, except for the fact that they want something and refuse to wait until they can actually afford to purchase it.

Let's face it, we (as a country) have a different mentality when it comes to credit than we did 40 years ago. And with that mentality there is no reason why lenders/corporations shouldn't protect themselves by using credit reports.

Rick

 

[Madeline]

40 years ago credit wasn't as easily available as it is today. Of course as credit becomes more easily available credit ratings are going to be more important.

People used to live within their means. If they couldn't afford to buy a house they rented someplace that fit within their budget. Now people go out and buy houses that they can't possibly afford.

We didn't get 10 credit card applications a month in the mail. People didn't buy things on credit unless it was a house. Now everyone buys on credit. We have become a country of immediate gratification. I want it, and I want it now!!!!!! It doesn't matter if I can afford it or not, if I want it I should have it. Well, that's not a responsible way to go through life.

If you can't afford the house you want, buy the house you can afford or rent a place you can afford until you can buy the house you want. If you can't afford the Escalade buy the Tracker and save for the Escalade.

There is no reason for people to be as far in debt as they are, except for the fact that they want something and refuse to wait until they can actually afford to purchase it.

Let's face it, we (as a country) have a different mentality when it comes to credit than we did 40 years ago. And with that mentality there is no reason why lenders/corporations should protect themselves by using credit reports.

Rick

About forty years ago, we began dismantling the economic power of the middle class and these people were lulled into complacency because they could spend on credit rather than using savings or earnings and live (or appear to) as well as before. That hole has been deepening and now, when many have to consider living only on earnings and savings for the first time in their lives, they are horrified to discover how little buying power they actually have.

But hey, at least the richest of the rich are getting richer!

 

[hboats]

40 years ago credit wasn't as easily available as it is today. Of course as credit becomes more easily available credit ratings are going to be more important.

People used to live within their means. If they couldn't afford to buy a house they rented someplace that fit within their budget. Now people go out and buy houses that they can't possibly afford.

We didn't get 10 credit card applications a month in the mail. People didn't buy things on credit unless it was a house. Now everyone buys on credit. We have become a country of immediate gratification. I want it, and I want it now!!!!!! It doesn't matter if I can afford it or not, if I want it I should have it. Well, that's not a responsible way to go through life.

If you can't afford the house you want, buy the house you can afford or rent a place you can afford until you can buy the house you want. If you can't afford the Escalade buy the Tracker and save for the Escalade.

There is no reason for people to be as far in debt as they are, except for the fact that they want something and refuse to wait until they can actually afford to purchase it.

Let's face it, we (as a country) have a different mentality when it comes to credit than we did 40 years ago. And with that mentality there is no reason why lenders/corporations should protect themselves by using credit reports.

Rick

About forty year ago, we began dismantling the economic power of the middle class and these people were lulled into complacency because they could spend on credit rather than using savings or earnings and live (or appear to) as well as before. That hole has been deepening and now, when many have to consider living only on earnings and savings for the first time in their lives, they are horrified to discover how little buying power they actually have.

But hey, at least the richest of the rich are getting richer!

Wow, so in your opinion personal responsibility has nothing to do with it?

And that is exactly why we are where we are today. Too many people are unwilling/unable to take personal responsibility for what got them where they are.

Rick

 

[Bern80]

I'd be willing to bet that you have in fact released your credit report and just do not know it. On the sig line for an insurance policy, apartment lease or a job, there might be an asterick and waaaay down on the page, a little bitty message that signing authorizes them to pull your report. That's all they need; they already have your SSN.

If you dun believe me, pull your reports (there are three); one section lists everyone who has been sent a copy for the past year or so.

Yeah I'm about due to check on mine anyway. What's your point? I don't have bad credit so I'm not too concerned about it.

 

[beowolfe]

Essentially REQUIRES an individual to have good credit to do/have practically anything.

Aka, an abode, whether rent or own, a car, access to loans (well, this one more understandable), and many other things that decades ago was not necessary.

Decades ago, people actually had a sense of right & wrong, and carried a conscience, and worked for those things they wanted. Today, everyone is under the misguided assumption that they're "entitled".

I dont' think people decades ago had any more of a sense of right or wrong than people today. Decades ago, there were also a large number of people who felt they were entitled.

 

[MikeK]

40 years ago credit wasn't as easily available as it is today. Of course as credit becomes more easily available credit ratings are going to be more important.

People used to live within their means. If they couldn't afford to buy a house they rented someplace that fit within their budget. Now people go out and buy houses that they can't possibly afford.

We didn't get 10 credit card applications a month in the mail. People didn't buy things on credit unless it was a house. Now everyone buys on credit. We have become a country of immediate gratification. I want it, and I want it now!!!!!! It doesn't matter if I can afford it or not, if I want it I should have it. Well, that's not a responsible way to go through life.

If you can't afford the house you want, buy the house you can afford or rent a place you can afford until you can buy the house you want. If you can't afford the Escalade buy the Tracker and save for the Escalade.

There is no reason for people to be as far in debt as they are, except for the fact that they want something and refuse to wait until they can actually afford to purchase it.

Let's face it, we (as a country) have a different mentality when it comes to credit than we did 40 years ago. And with that mentality there is no reason why lenders/corporations should protect themselves by using credit reports.

Rick

About forty year ago, we began dismantling the economic power of the middle class and these people were lulled into complacency because they could spend on credit rather than using savings or earnings and live (or appear to) as well as before. That hole has been deepening and now, when many have to consider living only on earnings and savings for the first time in their lives, they are horrified to discover how little buying power they actually have.

But hey, at least the richest of the rich are getting richer!

Wow, so in your opinion personal responsibility has nothing to do with it?

And that is exactly why we are where we are today. Too many people are unwilling/unable to take personal responsibility for what got them where they are.

Rick

Because I was born in 1936 to parents who survived the Great Depression the orientation I acquired was to get a civil service job, to invest in nothing but government bonds and to never buy anything on credit. So I'm one of those who live within my means and have no debts. But I do acknowledge that more recent generations of middle class Americans have had a completely different orientation and to ignore that fact is unreasonably intolerant considering the circumstances outlined in Madeline's commentary.

Human nature is such that the behavior of a significant percentage of working class Americans will be guided by marketing influences, which outstandingly includes psychological pressure imposed by television advertising and the seductive conduct of the credit industry. I dare say if I were younger and were not influenced by my parents' ominous warnings it is likely that I would be in the same boat as a lot of other middle class debtors who are guilty of nothing more than following a deceptively exploitive lead.

 

[Bern80]

About forty year ago, we began dismantling the economic power of the middle class and these people were lulled into complacency because they could spend on credit rather than using savings or earnings and live (or appear to) as well as before. That hole has been deepening and now, when many have to consider living only on earnings and savings for the first time in their lives, they are horrified to discover how little buying power they actually have.

But hey, at least the richest of the rich are getting richer!

Wow, so in your opinion personal responsibility has nothing to do with it?

And that is exactly why we are where we are today. Too many people are unwilling/unable to take personal responsibility for what got them where they are.

Rick

Because I was born in 1936 to parents who survived the Great Depression the orientation I acquired was to get a civil service job, to invest in nothing but government bonds and to never buy anything on credit. So I'm one of those who live within my means and have no debts. But I do acknowledge that more recent generations of middle class Americans have had a completely different orientation and to ignore that fact is unreasonably intolerant considering the circumstances outlined in Madeline's commentary.

Human nature is such that the behavior of a significant percentage of working class Americans will be guided by marketing influences, which outstandingly includes psychological pressure imposed by television advertising and the seductive conduct of the credit industry. I dare say if I were younger and were not influenced by my parents' ominous warnings it is likely that I would be in the same boat as a lot of other middle class debtors who are guilty of nothing more than following a deceptively exploitive lead.

What you call a deceptively exploitive lead, I call willful ignorance.