Are You Guys Ready For Your National ID Cards?

[NuclearWinter]

hell, even if they tried half of you would bitch about it and the other half would cry that either the antichrist or the illuminati were behind it.


Do you have a debit card? do you use it? Y'know when you swipe that bad boy and your bank account is charged instantaneously? Imagine that kind of time frame when determining eligibility for employment. Further, imagine if the current system was able to be spoofed with bubble jet printers making copies of your debit card as is the fact today.


Let me take a WILD STAB IN THE DARK and guess that you have also not burned your SS#.

Sorry things aren't going your way Shogun.

Fact is, the corrupt section of our government is still not doing jack. Instead, they are doing the opposite. Pushing for open borders and allowing for even more mexican truckers to drive on our highways. They are still introducing little pieces of legislation to allow for all of the illegals currently in our country to be "legalized". It's ridiculous.

And all that is going on while we have people talking about a security partnership (North American Union), and making plans to build a superhighway for Mexico, America, and Canada? And still, President Bush pretends that the answer to the solution is to secretly tax American citizens by introducing the REAL ID act? And that the answer lies in all of us Americans having to give up even more of our freedoms?

It's a joke. The REAL ID is a scam. Open your eyes man. It seems like you are at least starting to realize that just because you don't see it as a scam, doesn't stop millions of other Americans from seeing it as such.

 

[Shogun]

Sorry things aren't going your way Shogun.

Fact is, the corrupt section of our government is still not doing jack. Instead, they are doing the opposite. Pushing for open borders and allowing for even more mexican truckers to drive on our highways. They are still introducing little pieces of legislation to allow for all of the illegals currently in our country to be "legalized". It's ridiculous.

And all that is going on while we have people talking about a security partnership (North American Union), and making plans to build a superhighway for Mexico, America, and Canada? And still, President Bush pretends that the answer to the solution is to secretly tax American citizens by introducing the REAL ID act? And that the answer lies in all of us Americans having to give up even more of our freedoms?

It's a joke. The REAL ID is a scam. Open your eyes man. It seems like you are at least starting to realize that just because you don't see it as a scam, doesn't stop millions of other Americans from seeing it as such.

what CORRUPT section of the government? NAME it. Don't feed some lame assed alex jones prison planet piece of ambiguous assumptions. NAME IT.

What is ridiculous is garroting common sense for the sake of paranoia and a book of fiction. Again, I take it you haven't quite come to the point where you've burned your SS#? Why do you think that is the case?



A real ID is as much of a scam as the SS administration is tracking your every move and listening in on you through water taps. It's paranoid bullshit... Which, again, is why that branch of the nutter tree is just as rediculous as the dogma junkies finding the image of jebus in toast and the antichrist in public policy. I've given you concrete examples of the necessity of such an id and you reply with prison planet-like rhetoric?


Face it, securing the border is necessary but won't solve who ar already here. You are dooming us to accept another round of Reagan-style amnesty.... for the sake of logic that David Icke could appreciate, no less. Like I said, bitch about illegals some more. You are probably not your own worst enemy in fending off illegals.

 

[NuclearWinter]

what CORRUPT section of the government? NAME it. Don't feed some lame assed alex jones prison planet piece of ambiguous assumptions. NAME IT.

What is ridiculous is garroting common sense for the sake of paranoia and a book of fiction. Again, I take it you haven't quite come to the point where you've burned your SS#? Why do you think that is the case?



A real ID is as much of a scam as the SS administration is tracking your every move and listening in on you through water taps. It's paranoid bullshit... Which, again, is why that branch of the nutter tree is just as rediculous as the dogma junkies finding the image of jebus in toast and the antichrist in public policy. I've given you concrete examples of the necessity of such an id and you reply with prison planet-like rhetoric?


Face it, securing the border is necessary but won't solve who ar already here. You are dooming us to accept another round of Reagan-style amnesty.... for the sake of logic that David Icke could appreciate, no less. Like I said, bitch about illegals some more. You are probably not your own worst enemy in fending off illegals.

Well, to me, the corrupt section of our government is any official involved with the security and prosperity partnership association, any official who doesn't want to close our borders and secure our nation, and any official who seems to want to give amnesty to all the illegal aliens within our country. Also, those who push for NAFTA, and other such deals which do not benefit our country and the American people.

Basicly, people like President Bush, the Clintons, and many others. I could list them all, trust me. It would be a snap of the finger. But I think the majority of people reading this would get my point and be able to figure out who I am talking about. Of course, you seem to be the exception. But that has proven to be the case just about every time we have shared our opinions so far.

 

[Shogun]

Well, to me, the corrupt section of our government is any official involved with the security and prosperity partnership association, any official who doesn't want to close our borders and secure our nation, and any official who seems to want to give amnesty to all the illegal aliens within our country. Also, those who push for NAFTA, and other such deals which do not benefit our country and the American people.

Basicly, people like President Bush, the Clintons, and many others. I could list them all, trust me. It would be a snap of the finger. But I think the majority of people reading this would get my point and be able to figure out who I am talking about. Of course, you seem to be the exception. But that has proven to be the case just about every time we have shared our opinions so far.

Your OPINIONS are noted. Guess what the rest of us have along with our common excrement shoots. Your opinion is not a legal standard. I'm a big fan of evidence, dude. Prove your accusation. Otherwise, this is the same reason why Alex Jones and his ilk are as rediculous as the bible thumpers promising the return of christ ever major decade. Im just not impressed by the semi-ambigous boogeyman that you insist is going to swoop in like a fucking black 'copter and and give you the big brother act. This is why im looking for NAMES instead of telling me what "they" want to do. The next step is providing evidence and, just so you know, elvis died in 77 and there are no bigfoot monsters fishing at Loch Ness.

 

[NuclearWinter]

Your OPINIONS are noted. Guess what the rest of us have along with our common excrement shoots. Your opinion is not a legal standard. I'm a big fan of evidence, dude. Prove your accusation. Otherwise, this is the same reason why Alex Jones and his ilk are as rediculous as the bible thumpers promising the return of christ ever major decade. Im just not impressed by the semi-ambigous boogeyman that you insist is going to swoop in like a fucking black 'copter and and give you the big brother act. This is why im looking for NAMES instead of telling me what "they" want to do. The next step is providing evidence and, just so you know, elvis died in 77 and there are no bigfoot monsters fishing at Loch Ness.

Shogun, I don't mean to be rude, but I am starting to wonder if you lack common sense. Seriously.

You rant and rave about the anti-christ and black helicopters. This thread mentions none of those things. It's about the REAL ID. It's about REALITY.

Slick Willy Clinton. Enough said.

They're gonna try and stick his wife in there, and we know how forgiving she can be right? Yeah right. She's gonna screw our country over even more. And her cheating husband is going to be whispering in her ear the entire time. Whether she is vice president or president it doesn't matter. She's gonna rub her elbows up with grease and do her damndest to continue on the Clinton legend. Or better yet, the agenda of corruption.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

This guy is still around?

 

[NuclearWinter]

This guy is still around?

That's right Onthefence....

America is in for quite a ride. And it is mainly because of our own ignorance and greed that we have allowed ourselves to get into this situation. The people's that is. No need to point fingers, we're all a little bit at fault.

Unfortunately, though, we have "created a monster" with our current run-away-train government. And we need to stand up and stop it before it crashes (with all of us on board).

 

[CrimsonWhite]

For the life of me I cannot figure out how you got out of drinking the kool-aid. I bet you still have a pair of black Nikes in your closet, don't you.

 

[Shogun]

Shogun, I don't mean to be rude, but I am starting to wonder if you lack common sense. Seriously.

You rant and rave about the anti-christ and black helicopters. This thread mentions none of those things. It's about the REAL ID. It's about REALITY.

Slick Willy Clinton. Enough said.

They're gonna try and stick his wife in there, and we know how forgiving she can be right? Yeah right. She's gonna screw our country over even more. And her cheating husband is going to be whispering in her ear the entire time. Whether she is vice president or president it doesn't matter. She's gonna rub her elbows up with grease and do her damndest to continue on the Clinton legend. Or better yet, the agenda of corruption.

What's so common about a paranoid delusion that America will become the book 1984 with the incorporation of a real ID? Again, show me the evidence that your worst case scenario doomsday event is going to take place right after you explain why you haven't burned your Social Security Card yet.

See, THIS is the problem with the prisonplantet/alex jones people. They start stuttering when asked for concrete evidence beyond the paranoid delusion. This is why I'm asking for facts. Fact, like say, any example of SS# abuse being used to track your behaviour. Say, facts like any example of ANYONE this side of the Ferlinghetti trial being run through the mud over their library history. ANYTHING. Show me ANY single example of abuse by the gov regarding ANY standardized form of ID. Do you have a Drivers License? Aren't you afraid that the state will know where you live and, shhhhh speak quietly, your bloodtype?


I'm afraid im going to need a little more on the evidence table than doomsday fortune cookie predictions, empty accusations and tired old conspiracy theories.


Meanwhile. today. There is an illegal mexican using fake ID to become employed. YOu may not care but I'm betting that the person whose ID is being stolen does.

 

[NuclearWinter]

What's so common about a paranoid delusion that America will become the book 1984 with the incorporation of a real ID? Again, show me the evidence that your worst case scenario doomsday event is going to take place right after you explain why you haven't burned your Social Security Card yet.

Very simple, a piece of paper with my social security number on it cannot be expanded in the same way that the REAL ID can to do even more than what it has been doing for the past 24 years of my life.

REAL ID, on the other hand, can continue to be expanded, tinkered with, changed around, be upgraded for more restrictions, and yada yada yada. It's got a microchip inside of it which could, in theory, be used for just about anything the Department of Homeland Security decides. No joke. They have basicly even stated that in their own paperwork.

So the social security card is basicly harmless to a degree. The same cannot be said about the REAL ID. Stop trying to compare them bro. They are not the same thing. Not at all.

 

[Shogun]

Very simple, a piece of paper with my social security number on it cannot be expanded in the same way that the REAL ID can to do even more than what it has been doing for the past 24 years of my life.

Do you think credit reporting companies feel the same way? So, do you want to be specific here or am I just supposed to guess what "expanded in the same way" is supposed to imply?


REAL ID, on the other hand, can continue to be expanded, tinkered with, changed around, be upgraded for more restrictions, and yada yada yada. It's got a microchip inside of it which could, in theory, be used for just about anything the Department of Homeland Security decides. No joke. They have basicly even stated that in their own paperwork.

Come on, dude. Give me some concrete evidence here. Maybe if you could post such statements in their own paperwork.... prisonplanet and alex jones doesn't meet my evidence standard, by the way.


So the social security card is basicly harmless to a degree. The same cannot be said about the REAL ID. Stop trying to compare them bro. They are not the same thing. Not at all.


BASICALLY harmless? hehehehe.. yea, tell that to someone whose had their ID stolen... Or a deadbeat dad who has been tracked down by the dept of family services as soon as he gets a job... you know, a job that requires your SS#. Better yet, try opening a bank account without one.. see how fun THAT conversation is.

I assure you that, in fact, the SS# was rallied against just like you are railing against a national ID. But,. maybe after you post your concrete examples finally you can put a little effort into comparing and contrasting a fed ID with the SS# rather than merely insisting that their are completely impervious to comparison...

Meanwhile, again, a mexican is using a fake ss card to scam the nation. have fun knowing that.

 

[NuclearWinter]

Very simple, a piece of paper with my social security number on it cannot be expanded in the same way that the REAL ID can to do even more than what it has been doing for the past 24 years of my life.

Do you think credit reporting companies feel the same way? So, do you want to be specific here or am I just supposed to guess what "expanded in the same way" is supposed to imply?


REAL ID, on the other hand, can continue to be expanded, tinkered with, changed around, be upgraded for more restrictions, and yada yada yada. It's got a microchip inside of it which could, in theory, be used for just about anything the Department of Homeland Security decides. No joke. They have basicly even stated that in their own paperwork.

Come on, dude. Give me some concrete evidence here. Maybe if you could post such statements in their own paperwork.... prisonplanet and alex jones doesn't meet my evidence standard, by the way.


So the social security card is basicly harmless to a degree. The same cannot be said about the REAL ID. Stop trying to compare them bro. They are not the same thing. Not at all.


BASICALLY harmless? hehehehe.. yea, tell that to someone whose had their ID stolen... Or a deadbeat dad who has been tracked down by the dept of family services as soon as he gets a job... you know, a job that requires your SS#. Better yet, try opening a bank account without one.. see how fun THAT conversation is.

I assure you that, in fact, the SS# was rallied against just like you are railing against a national ID. But,. maybe after you post your concrete examples finally you can put a little effort into comparing and contrasting a fed ID with the SS# rather than merely insisting that their are completely impervious to comparison...

Meanwhile, again, a mexican is using a fake ss card to scam the nation. have fun knowing that.

lol. I am still trying to completely understand what your arguement is. What I see, is that your arguement is, "You already have a social security number which can be used to track you, so why not accept the REAL ID so that you can have something else that can track you even better?"

You don't see the dangers of the REAL ID. I am not going to try to convince you anymore. If you can't see them already, perhaps you will never see them at all.

 

[manu1959]

california already has a "real id" has had for years....

 

[Helios]

enjoy whatever new nation that you emmigtate to that better fits your federal criteria. Imean, how can you STAND to have a social security number attached to your citizenship?!?!?!

Actually, I'm not a citizen. So you're entire "have-you-burned-your-SSC" spiel ISN'T too effective, citizen.

 

[Helios]

california already has a "real id" has had for years....

The difference being that if only ONE state has it, ITS NOT FEDERAL ID.

 

[Shogun]

lol. I am still trying to completely understand what your arguement is. What I see, is that your arguement is, "You already have a social security number which can be used to track you, so why not accept the REAL ID so that you can have something else that can track you even better?"

You don't see the dangers of the REAL ID. I am not going to try to convince you anymore. If you can't see them already, perhaps you will never see them at all.

My point is that you have no evidence that your SS# is being used in any nefarious way, despite the same paranoia around during its inception, any more than you have evidence of the same with a real ID.

My point is that there are actual concrete examples of the necessity for a real ID. Which, I contend, trumps your 1984 tinfoil prediction.

What you see as a boogeyman right around the corner is nothing more than your imagination playing games with your desire to see an enemy that isnt there. Like YOU said, you have no evidence that the SS# has been used maliciously against anyone during it's entire tenure as a federal ID. YOU are being tracked and your behaviour recorded in a great many ways BY YOUR SS#. go try and do a great many things WITHOUT one and see how far that gets you. Thus, we already have evidence that a national ID won't CAUSE the black 'copters from taking away your foil hat.

What a dour world this would be if we restricted ourselves to only that which can never be used nefariously. I guess Drivers lisences is a state tracking system too? ID in general? giving a fingerprint to cash a check, because you refuse to open an account that requires a SS# is probably just like the government mind control being used in flouride treated tap water, dude. didn't you know that TVs are really surveillance cameras?


Today, again, a mexican will be using fake ID to scam America. Hopefully the Id, excuse me National ID, that is being ripped off isn't yours.

 

[Shogun]

Actually, I'm not a citizen. So you're entire "have-you-burned-your-SSC" spiel ISN'T too effective, citizen.

oh well, then clearly you have a dog in this race and are worth debating the issue with.

 

[manifold]

Is your opposition another state's rights play? Afterall, you pretty much need a state issued driver's license already to do those things.

State's rights is a wonderful and noble concept, but you didn't really think it could last forever...did you?

 

[NuclearWinter]

My point is that you have no evidence that your SS# is being used in any nefarious way, despite the same paranoia around during its inception, any more than you have evidence of the same with a real ID.

My point is that there are actual concrete examples of the necessity for a real ID. Which, I contend, trumps your 1984 tinfoil prediction.

What you see as a boogeyman right around the corner is nothing more than your imagination playing games with your desire to see an enemy that isnt there. Like YOU said, you have no evidence that the SS# has been used maliciously against anyone during it's entire tenure as a federal ID. YOU are being tracked and your behaviour recorded in a great many ways BY YOUR SS#. go try and do a great many things WITHOUT one and see how far that gets you. Thus, we already have evidence that a national ID won't CAUSE the black 'copters from taking away your foil hat.

What a dour world this would be if we restricted ourselves to only that which can never be used nefariously. I guess Drivers lisences is a state tracking system too? ID in general? giving a fingerprint to cash a check, because you refuse to open an account that requires a SS# is probably just like the government mind control being used in flouride treated tap water, dude. didn't you know that TVs are really surveillance cameras?


Today, again, a mexican will be using fake ID to scam America. Hopefully the Id, excuse me National ID, that is being ripped off isn't yours.

Again, the social security card worked fine (and continues to work fine) for 24 years of my life. The REAL ID is not necessary. I do not want one, and I should have the choice of not having one. If you want a REAL ID, that's fine. In fact, why not get 10 or 20 of them for all of your friends and family? Just don't tell me that I have to get one because you are getting one. This is America, not Nazi Germany. We have choice in this country. We pride ourselves on this choice. It is what separates us from communist and facist regimes.

 

[Shogun]

Again, the social security card worked fine (and continues to work fine) for 24 years of my life. The REAL ID is not necessary. I do not want one, and I should have the choice of not having one. If you want a REAL ID, that's fine. In fact, why not get 10 or 20 of them for all of your friends and family? Just don't tell me that I have to get one because you are getting one. This is America, not Nazi Germany. We have choice in this country. We pride ourselves on this choice. It is what separates us from communist and facist regimes.

indeed, it worked fine for your first 24 years despite its potential for abuse by a supposedly nefarious government... but times change and an ID that can be fraudulently created must be reinvented. Yes, given the fact of buble jet printers making fraudulent IDs a reality, it IS necessary.

Then don't get one... be like the amish who are not forced into the social security program and, thus, don't need a SS# for each kid they give birth to on the kitchen table. But, don't get too bent outa shape when you find that it is a requirement much like the SS# is when interacting with banks, credit cards, etc etc.

And, you are not getting one because it is a fad or trendy. Youd be issued one in order to prove your citizenship and work eligability. You know, like you have to do when getting a job already.... using a SS# no less. You don't have a SS# because it was trendy to get one. Again, I challenge you to sell yours to a mexican who will appreciate it.


It's always easy to cite 1984, call someone a fascist and pretend that the black 'copters are just a tinfoil hat away, isnt it? Do you give this same speach to the DMV when you go renew your lisence and they ask you to prove your identity? Further, did you use your SS# to do so?


I mean, you do realize that the SS# IS a national ID, right?

Social Security Cards: De Facto National Identification
November 29, 2005
In 1936, the Social Security Administration established the Social Security number to track worker's earnings for Social Security benefit purposes. Despite its narrowly intended purpose, the SSN is now used for a myriad of non-Social Security purposes. Today, SSNs are used, in part, as identity verification tools for services such as child support collections, law enforcement enhancements, and issuing credit to individuals.

Although these uses can be beneficial to the public, the SSN is now a key piece of information in creating false identities. The aggregation of personal information, such as SSNs, in large corporate databases and the increased availability of information via the Internet may provide criminals the opportunities to commit identity theft.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/3911



Look up dead people by their SS#
http://ssdi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi


Your fear is unfounded and severs the Achilles tendon of anything that could be done about illegal aliens.