Are we seeing the beginning of the Fourth Reich?

Discussion in 'Europe' started by zzzz, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. zzzz
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    zzzz Just a regular American

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    In the last century Hitler brought Europe the Third Reich through military conquest and in the process WII and destruction. Today the conquest of Europe appears to be of a different sort but the effect may turn the EU into the German dominated Fourth Reich.

    Many in Europe are calling for Germany to take more control of the EU to help pull the EU out of this financial crisis. Even the Poles are pleading for German control.

    Jconline - Europe, facing abyss, embraces German might

    The use of military force in this age when there is a dominant force (USA) keeping the peace is gone. Conquest today is through economic and political means and the original fear of Germany taking over the EU and essentially making the EU a greater Germany appears to be possible and thereby the rise of the Fourth Reich.

    What does this mean for the US?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  2. alexa
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    alexa VIP Member

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    People don't mind because we are told that if the Eurozone falls down all hell will break loose - and can you really imagine France letting Germany have all the say?

    Italy and Greece have unelected technocrats running them. Italy having one who previously worked for the people most blamed for this mess.

    People seem to feel safe in the Euro. It is the one thing which guarantees peace. There is no space for any voice otherwise.

    Does the left have a voice in the euro crisis? | Nick Cohen | Comment is free | The Observer



    If the Eurozone fails I hear it will make anything both the US and the UK have been through before look like a picnic. Will it, I don't know. Will that happen anyway, maybe.
     
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  3. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    German dominated? Yes.
    Fourth Reich? No.

    It also seems to move in the direction of what they call the "Europe of 2 speeds".
     
  4. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    English not only inhabit a land half the size of Germany, but they have to share it with the Scottish, too.
    Not much rejoice these days except opening the history books.

    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  5. zzzz
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    zzzz Just a regular American

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    Yet when one part becomes dominant in a quasi country (EU) the other parts can gradually become assimilated like the US did. Of course it could remained fractured as some middle eastern countries are tribal.

    The use of the word Reich has been put into the arena of bad words because of the Nazi's but history has a way of softening those attitudes and as the people who suffered under the Third Reich pass away and generation after generation distance themselves form that era the word becomes more useful.

    But in a political sense the position of the Germans in the EU place them as the natural leaders of the EU and thereby in essence making the EU a German empire, especially if they lead the Euro zone out of this financial crisis. And in essence they will have conquered Europe, not by force but through economic means and become the Fourth Reich.
     
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  6. Douger
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    Douger BANNED

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    Duh Fourth Reich consists of 535 assholes.
     
  7. alexa
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    alexa VIP Member

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    I have to admit similar thoughts had crossed my mind the day before you started this thread.

    I don't know enough about economics but I was recently hearing that by some way Germany has actually been supported by the smaller countries who are now in trouble and that one of the things Merkel needs to do is to tell the German people that so that they are prepared to take a drop in their standard of living - a standard which they have somehow managed to obtain because of the other countries. In other words it sounded that Germany owed to them, not quite so much just her giving out and that her people needed to become aware of that and aware that if the euro fails and Spain and Italy start making money and selling their goods at whatever price all hell will break lose for Germany.

    Germany and France also want to put in a Robin Hood type tax. Britain said no. It's about the only positive thing I see at the moment. I think we need an International one.

    They are talking about this taking years. It cannot and will not be a German only thing even though it may look like that at the present moment.

    Time to worry is when you listen to an African on News 24 chuckling away about Europe trusting the IMF and saying that Africa and China are looking good and ready to come through and take their place, as I did yesterday.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  8. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Economically speaking I'd say that Germany is a rather reluctant leader of an united Europe.
     
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  9. Baruch Menachem
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    Baruch Menachem '

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    A good argument could be made that the whole post war period was a replay of the period between 1819-1871 when the second Reich was built in a manner like the current EU.

    Prussia had huge amounts of territory all over the place and set up the Zollverein with a council of ministers running it. Prussia took a large financial loss subsidizing the Zollverein during its existence, until it was replaced by the empire in 1871.

    The Zollverein was the instrument of Prussian hegemony, much like the EU has become the instrument of German hegemony.

    Comparing the way Germany was run after the Zollverein to the way it was before shows it was a brilliant and humanistic move. Same way with the EU. Being run by the Germans is a bit of a drawback, but it is a major step forward in every other way.
     
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  10. rdean
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    Are we seeing the beginning of the Fourth Reich?

    If you are a:

    gay
    woman
    Muslim
    Hispanic
    black
    liberal
    college professor
    teacher
    policeman
    firemen
    atheist

    You have a lot more to fear from the American right wing than the "Forth Reich".
     

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