CDZ Are there any nations that can help persuade Indonesian government to free Ahok?

[cnm]

What kind of foreign influence?

Foreign influence promoting secular democracy. You know the power of the military is still there, just more in the shadows now.

 

[grbb]

We're not secular yet.

However, like in US there are people wanting this country to be more secular. Basically we still have 1 or 2 freedom of speech limitation like that rubber anti blasphemy laws. Also I hate to hear mosque speech near my house every day. And yea, complaining about it can cause riots. So we're like US when KKK was still around.

We no longer have thugs enforcing their rules over others. It's far more moderate than arab saudi I would imagine. We got christians as governors and ministers.


Some wants my country to be like afganistan. Many wants my country to be like yours or europe. I am the latter of course.

Actually in many aspects we're more free than US. You can use any drug or go to any prostitute and that's hardly enforced. Some even say it's close to libertarian dreams. Just let the corrupt officials enjoy their "share". Ahok didn't. That's his real problem. Enforcement has been tough lately.

That being said, once ganja is legal in all states in US, I expect it'll be legal in Indonesia too. He he he he...

 

[cnm]

You know, I'm in NZ, we have good relations with Indonesia but we don't try to pretend it's something it's not.

 

[grbb]

What kind of foreign influence?

Foreign influence promoting secular democracy. You know the power of the military is still there, just more in the shadows now.

It's still there. I think asking your country to invade mine is beyond my intent and will just make things worse. He he he...

I am sure your politicians, that want to get vote, will have many softer ways to influence. A bit lower tariff. More trades. Hey, wanna know how you can lower your health care costs? Use Indonesian doctors. Yea I know Trump would say hire americans. But he'll work something out. Your president is very smart.

 

[grbb]

You know, I'm in NZ, we have good relations with Indonesia but we don't try to pretend it's something it's not.

Do you know anyone in NZ that may care about Ahok fate? Many of them are fellow christians. Anyone? I'd like to know them.

 

[grbb]

Indonesian democracy is constitutionally based on secularism, guaranteeing equal rights to all of its citizens regardless of religion as well as ethnicity.
http://time.com/​

Do you really think current events show a constitutionally based secular democracy?

No it's not secular yet. However, as in US, religious influences are diminishing.

I don't care about religions at all. I am pretty much atheist or agnostic and I really don't care.

In fact, religious influences on some area are perhaps less than in US.

In US, christians can say you got to have sex only within marriage and for years that have bites. In Indonesia, so far, it has no bite at all.

 

[cnm]

Do you know anyone in NZ that may care about Ahok fate? Many of them are fellow christians. Anyone? I'd like to know them.

No, I'd say the view here is that Indonesian affairs are for Indonesians to arrange. Besides, Ahok's 'blasphemy' is just an attempt by the more radical Muslim parties to apply political leverage. The vast majority of moderate Muslims could stop it dead in its tracks if they wanted. Again, it is an affair for Indonesians.

Too, NZ really is quite secular.

 

[cnm]

I don't care about religions at all. I am pretty much atheist or agnostic and I really don't care.

That statement confuses me a little.

 

[grbb]

I don't care about religions at all. I am pretty much atheist or agnostic and I really don't care.

That statement confuses me a little.

What I am saying is, unless I open my mouth and encourage others to be atheists, which I can still do anonymously anyway, I am fine. There is no body forcing me to give some fucks about religions.

 

[grbb]

Do you know anyone in NZ that may care about Ahok fate? Many of them are fellow christians. Anyone? I'd like to know them.

No, I'd say the view here is that Indonesian affairs are for Indonesians to arrange. Besides, Ahok's 'blasphemy' is just an attempt by the more radical Muslim parties to apply political leverage. The vast majority of moderate Muslims could stop it dead in its tracks if they wanted. Again, it is an affair for Indonesians.

Too, NZ really is quite secular.

I know. Anyone in NZ wants to help Ahok? Don't you want a more secular neighbor? Would you rather have another canadian on your north, or another syria? or another iran? or another iraq?

This goes for another country. Indonesia have 220 million. We're "westernized". We have mc donald there. Do you want another canadian on the globe or another syria?

And if we're death, ruled by some mullah, you think that won't affect you?

 

[irosie91]

What finacial, or geopolitical gain is to be had by having my president, extend the will of my nation, on behalf of a person %95 of Americans have never heard of prior to this incident?

I'd imagine the same perceived interest that had the CIA help murder thousands there.

could you expand on your allegation that the CIA murdered thousands of Indonesians?

 

[grbb]

What finacial, or geopolitical gain is to be had by having my president, extend the will of my nation, on behalf of a person %95 of Americans have never heard of prior to this incident?

I'd imagine the same perceived interest that had the CIA help murder thousands there.

could you expand on your allegation that the CIA murdered thousands of Indonesians?

Long story.

What happened is Sukarno were leaning left.

And US supported a coup by Suharto that then rule for 30 years.

So religious fundamentalists mass murder millions of communists "suspects"

So millions died.

It's a different time. It sucks. We don't do that anymore. Free market, globalization, freedom of speech, and internet, make it impossible to do that sort of thing anymore.

 

[grbb]

There are movements to eliminate that blasphemy laws again. You're right. I will see what I can do to help that. It is Indonesian's problem. If there is any help, I would appreciate though.

I think it's toward the best interest of all people wanting to be free from tyranny of religion to support secularism everywhere.

 

[irosie91]

There are movements to eliminate that blasphemy laws again. You're right. I will see what I can do to help that. It is Indonesian's problem. If there is any help, I would appreciate though.

I think it's toward the best interest of all people wanting to be free from tyranny of religion to support secularism everywhere.

Indonesia claims religious freedom------so did muhummad. In order to understand
the Indonesian system----you have to know something about DHIMMIA. ---and you
have to come to know a muslim who will tell you how WONDERFUL being a
DHIMMI is-------how delighted dhimmis are to be dhimmis

 

[Picaro]

You hear about Ahok news? That means it's newsworthy enough for Americans. Maybe someone care.

What can we do to help him? Are you a fellow christian like Ahok? What could we do?

USMessageBoard i not only for discussions about the United States. If you have nothing to say about a topic it is better to say nothing.

Regarding other nations bringing influence to bear on Indonesia's anti-blasphemy law and its interpretation in its courts, this would be ignored by the Indonesian authorities who listen to no-one.

They would listen.

US is a successful country. Many in Indonesia wants their country to be more like US. Your opinions matter.

The president is Ahok's friend. He need only a good reason.

Yes. If there were no international media there, Ahok would have already been tossed to the mobs and hacked to death. As it is, they're just going to wait until the eyes are elsewhere and go back to business as usual. As you can see form other posters in the thread, the commies are just fine with Muslims butchering Xians, and so are libertoons; just ignore the commies and Me First! whiners, they're just sociopaths.

 

[irosie91]

You hear about Ahok news? That means it's newsworthy enough for Americans. Maybe someone care.

What can we do to help him? Are you a fellow christian like Ahok? What could we do?

USMessageBoard i not only for discussions about the United States. If you have nothing to say about a topic it is better to say nothing.

Regarding other nations bringing influence to bear on Indonesia's anti-blasphemy law and its interpretation in its courts, this would be ignored by the Indonesian authorities who listen to no-one.

They would listen.

US is a successful country. Many in Indonesia wants their country to be more like US. Your opinions matter.

The president is Ahok's friend. He need only a good reason.

Yes. If there were no international media there, Ahok would have already been tossed to the mobs and hacked to death. As it is, they're just going to wait until the eyes are elsewhere and go back to business as usual. As you can see form other posters in the thread, the commies are just fine with Muslims butchering Xians, and so are libertoons; just ignore the commies and Me First! whiners, they're just sociopaths.

from past experience----it is important to keep the name AHOK----in the news---
to avoid the usual mutilation murder that the friends of muhummad favor

 

[Picaro]

You hear about Ahok news? That means it's newsworthy enough for Americans. Maybe someone care.

What can we do to help him? Are you a fellow christian like Ahok? What could we do?

USMessageBoard i not only for discussions about the United States. If you have nothing to say about a topic it is better to say nothing.

Regarding other nations bringing influence to bear on Indonesia's anti-blasphemy law and its interpretation in its courts, this would be ignored by the Indonesian authorities who listen to no-one.

They would listen.

US is a successful country. Many in Indonesia wants their country to be more like US. Your opinions matter.

The president is Ahok's friend. He need only a good reason.

Yes. If there were no international media there, Ahok would have already been tossed to the mobs and hacked to death. As it is, they're just going to wait until the eyes are elsewhere and go back to business as usual. As you can see form other posters in the thread, the commies are just fine with Muslims butchering Xians, and so are libertoons; just ignore the commies and Me First! whiners, they're just sociopaths.

from past experience----it is important to keep the name AHOK----in the news---
to avoid the usual mutilation murder that the friends of muhummad favor

Yes. He'll be killed as soon as the media wanders off in search of something else, like Justin Bieber's next new hair style or something.

 

[irosie91]

You hear about Ahok news? That means it's newsworthy enough for Americans. Maybe someone care.

What can we do to help him? Are you a fellow christian like Ahok? What could we do?

USMessageBoard i not only for discussions about the United States. If you have nothing to say about a topic it is better to say nothing.

Regarding other nations bringing influence to bear on Indonesia's anti-blasphemy law and its interpretation in its courts, this would be ignored by the Indonesian authorities who listen to no-one.

They would listen.

US is a successful country. Many in Indonesia wants their country to be more like US. Your opinions matter.

The president is Ahok's friend. He need only a good reason.

Yes. If there were no international media there, Ahok would have already been tossed to the mobs and hacked to death. As it is, they're just going to wait until the eyes are elsewhere and go back to business as usual. As you can see form other posters in the thread, the commies are just fine with Muslims butchering Xians, and so are libertoons; just ignore the commies and Me First! whiners, they're just sociopaths.

from past experience----it is important to keep the name AHOK----in the news---
to avoid the usual mutilation murder that the friends of muhummad favor

Yes. He'll be killed as soon as the media wanders off in search of something else, like Justin Bieber's next new hair style or something.

could be-----those of good will MUST KEEP THE ISSUE ALIVE

 

[grbb]

There are movements to eliminate anti blasphemy laws. There are people that can blaspheme against any religions with impunity anyway.

Many people in Indonesia support ahok releases.

I think all we need from you is a lot of moral support. That's all. Thanks. If words spread then we can end this religious tyranny once and for all.

My country is not as good as yours. I am trying to make it as good as yours.

Even in US there are racism right? Just look at affirmative action against asians and whites.

 

[Picaro]

I don't care about religions at all. I am pretty much atheist or agnostic and I really don't care.

That statement confuses me a little.

Unlike you, he's concerned about intellectual freedom and oppression beyond his own nose, so naturally sociopaths are indeed confused about a lot of things.