CDZ Are there any nations that can help persuade Indonesian government to free Ahok?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by grbb, May 10, 2017.

  1. cnm
    Offline

    cnm Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    9,189
    Thanks Received:
    7,587
    Trophy Points:
    2,055
    Location:
    Te Ika a Maui
    Ratings:
    +28,354
    Foreign influence promoting secular democracy. You know the power of the military is still there, just more in the shadows now.
     
  2. grbb
    Offline

    grbb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    480
    Thanks Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +112
    We're not secular yet.

    However, like in US there are people wanting this country to be more secular. Basically we still have 1 or 2 freedom of speech limitation like that rubber anti blasphemy laws. Also I hate to hear mosque speech near my house every day. And yea, complaining about it can cause riots. So we're like US when KKK was still around.

    We no longer have thugs enforcing their rules over others. It's far more moderate than arab saudi I would imagine. We got christians as governors and ministers.


    Some wants my country to be like afganistan. Many wants my country to be like yours or europe. I am the latter of course.

    Actually in many aspects we're more free than US. You can use any drug or go to any prostitute and that's hardly enforced. Some even say it's close to libertarian dreams. Just let the corrupt officials enjoy their "share". Ahok didn't. That's his real problem. Enforcement has been tough lately.

    That being said, once ganja is legal in all states in US, I expect it'll be legal in Indonesia too. He he he he...
     
  3. cnm
    Offline

    cnm Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    9,189
    Thanks Received:
    7,587
    Trophy Points:
    2,055
    Location:
    Te Ika a Maui
    Ratings:
    +28,354
    You know, I'm in NZ, we have good relations with Indonesia but we don't try to pretend it's something it's not.
     
  4. grbb
    Offline

    grbb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    480
    Thanks Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +112
    It's still there. I think asking your country to invade mine is beyond my intent and will just make things worse. He he he...

    I am sure your politicians, that want to get vote, will have many softer ways to influence. A bit lower tariff. More trades. Hey, wanna know how you can lower your health care costs? Use Indonesian doctors. Yea I know Trump would say hire americans. But he'll work something out. Your president is very smart.
     
  5. grbb
    Offline

    grbb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    480
    Thanks Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +112
    Do you know anyone in NZ that may care about Ahok fate? Many of them are fellow christians. Anyone? I'd like to know them.
     
  6. grbb
    Offline

    grbb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    480
    Thanks Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +112
    No it's not secular yet. However, as in US, religious influences are diminishing.

    I don't care about religions at all. I am pretty much atheist or agnostic and I really don't care.

    In fact, religious influences on some area are perhaps less than in US.

    In US, christians can say you got to have sex only within marriage and for years that have bites. In Indonesia, so far, it has no bite at all.
     
  7. cnm
    Offline

    cnm Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    9,189
    Thanks Received:
    7,587
    Trophy Points:
    2,055
    Location:
    Te Ika a Maui
    Ratings:
    +28,354
    No, I'd say the view here is that Indonesian affairs are for Indonesians to arrange. Besides, Ahok's 'blasphemy' is just an attempt by the more radical Muslim parties to apply political leverage. The vast majority of moderate Muslims could stop it dead in its tracks if they wanted. Again, it is an affair for Indonesians.

    Too, NZ really is quite secular.
     
  8. cnm
    Offline

    cnm Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    9,189
    Thanks Received:
    7,587
    Trophy Points:
    2,055
    Location:
    Te Ika a Maui
    Ratings:
    +28,354
    That statement confuses me a little.
     
  9. grbb
    Offline

    grbb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    480
    Thanks Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +112
    What I am saying is, unless I open my mouth and encourage others to be atheists, which I can still do anonymously anyway, I am fine. There is no body forcing me to give some fucks about religions.
     
  10. grbb
    Offline

    grbb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    480
    Thanks Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +112
    I know. Anyone in NZ wants to help Ahok? Don't you want a more secular neighbor? Would you rather have another canadian on your north, or another syria? or another iran? or another iraq?

    This goes for another country. Indonesia have 220 million. We're "westernized". We have mc donald there. Do you want another canadian on the globe or another syria?

    And if we're death, ruled by some mullah, you think that won't affect you?
     

Share This Page