Are Catholics Christian Part Deux.

[ScreamingEagle]

I'm curious for everyone's input on this issue. It's one that I used to come across a lot back when I was a Catholic Apologist. Of course, I always defended Catholocism as a Christian denomination and I believe it still is. But how many of you feel differently or the same, etc.?

Now, I want to be very straight-forward: this is about the validity of Catholocism as a denomination in Christianity, nothing more. No talk about molestations, no bashing others here, and above all, stay on topic. We've seen the disaster that was the original thread. Let's try again, shall we?

Catholics are NOT a denomination. "Denomination" is what Protestantism is all about.

The Catholic Church is not a denomination (which means "to take a new name"); She is the Church. Those who are in schism, those who break away or subsist apart from Her are denominations or sects. She, the Church, is not. She is the Church.
http://www.catholicconvert.com/Portals/0/EcumenicalBibleStudy.pdf

 

[archangel]

Yes, my ex was an Episcopalian who used to yell at me that I was damned to hell for "whorshipping" Mary.....It was fun Truth is Mary is seen as sinless and perfect s she had to be to carry Jesus in her. I guess the best way to explain it is to say if you need a big favor from someone the smart thing to do is ask their mom to intevene on your behalf, how could anyone with love for their mother deny the favor especially when you hold their mother in high regard as well??

True story...A priest had an out of body experience as he died, turns out he wasn't such a holy priest in that he often shirked his responsibility for saying mass on other priests, and came to have a great love for the power he held over his flock, they would wine and dine him etc. As he saw the bright light he heard the Blessed mother say "please give him another chance my son". Sure enough he came back to life, and had a new love for Chist and his mother.

Your hubby yelled at ya for that!...Mary is cool and so are you...I think...don't know ya but I think ya are cool too!

 

[Gunny]

Yes, my ex was an Episcopalian who used to yell at me that I was damned to hell for "whorshipping" Mary.....It was fun Truth is Mary is seen as sinless and perfect s she had to be to carry Jesus in her. I guess the best way to explain it is to say if you need a big favor from someone the smart thing to do is ask their mom to intevene on your behalf, how could anyone with love for their mother deny the favor especially when you hold their mother in high regard as well??

True story...A priest had an out of body experience as he died, turns out he wasn't such a holy priest in that he often shirked his responsibility for saying mass on other priests, and came to have a great love for the power he held over his flock, they would wine and dine him etc. As he saw the bright light he heard the Blessed mother say "please give him another chance my son". Sure enough he came back to life, and had a new love for Chist and his mother.

I really do not consider another's religious belief's that do not affect me in any way to be any of my business. I have never considered that Catholics were not Christian since the fundamental belief that salvation through Christ is the same, and the only one that really matters.

Now I can get a little crappy with some Holy rollers trying to shove their brand down my throat, or pseudo-Christians who invoke the name of Christ in their quest for what ultimately turns out to be something more worldly and self-serving, but otherwise, I'm pretty-much "to each his own." Then there're the anit-religious zealots, but that's just a whole 'nuther brand of hate.

I guess when I am the only one that goes to Heaven I'll have showed you all!!!

 

[Gunny]

Catholics are NOT a denomination. "Denomination" is what Protestantism is all about.

I was going to ask if you think Catholics are somehow set apart and above all other Christians, but I guess ...

"She is the Church. Those who are in schism, those who break away or subsist apart from Her are denominations or sects. She, the Church, is not. She is the Church."

...kinda' says it all.

 

[glockmail]

I have a good friend that is Greek Orthodox. He calls me a heathen Catholic.

 

[Nuc]

I have a good friend that is Greek Orthodox. He calls me a heathen Catholic.

In fact Catholics and Orthodox are allowed to marry without losing standing in their churches. Which is not true of Catholics marrying Protestants. Orthodox and Catholics can convert without any special training either. They consider each other equals.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I was going to ask if you think Catholics are somehow set apart and above all other Christians, but I guess ...

"She is the Church. Those who are in schism, those who break away or subsist apart from Her are denominations or sects. She, the Church, is not. She is the Church."

...kinda' says it all.

"Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit."

http://www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp

 

[Gunny]

"Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit."

http://www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp

Pride goeth before the fall.

 

[Gunny]

I'll add to that last comment. I have no problem with people who are proud of who and what they are. I have a problem when that pride has them presuming a position of superiority.

The "Word" is in the New Testament of the Holy Bible. One only need read it and believe in it. With or without the ornamental trappings of organized religion or a "Church."

 

[no1tovote4]

In fact Catholics and Orthodox are allowed to marry without losing standing in their churches. Which is not true of Catholics marrying Protestants. Orthodox and Catholics can convert without any special training either. They consider each other equals.

My sister, a protestant, married my brother in law, a catholic, and had a marriage in a catholic church without either losing "status" in their church. She was just required by the Catholics to take certain classes and jump through certain hoops to make it okay for him...

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Pride goeth before the fall.

That was not a statement of pride. It reflects a fundamental fact/belief of the Catholic Church and probably helps to explain why it's so effective. However, I'm sure it is also bound to rub many the wrong way.

 

[Annie]

In fact Catholics and Orthodox are allowed to marry without losing standing in their churches. Which is not true of Catholics marrying Protestants. Orthodox and Catholics can convert without any special training either. They consider each other equals.

Actually if you follow the 'rules' it's not true. I married a Jew in a Catholic church with both a priest and rabbi presiding, with no problems. Neither of us had to give up our religion.

 

[ErikViking]

Pride goeth before the fall.

In my language that passage has another word instead of pride (conceit, arrogance), wich leans the statement to mean more like a hint:
"Don't underestimate others - that will cause you to fall"

My sister, a protestant, married my brother in law

Excuse a forigner... but does this mean? It sounds... sort of bad.

 

[Annie]

In my language that passage has another word instead of pride (conceit, arrogance), wich leans the statement to mean more like a hint:
"Don't underestimate others - that will cause you to fall"


Excuse a forigner... but does this mean? It sounds... sort of bad.

 

[KarlMarx]

I'm curious for everyone's input on this issue. It's one that I used to come across a lot back when I was a Catholic Apologist. Of course, I always defended Catholocism as a Christian denomination and I believe it still is. But how many of you feel differently or the same, etc.?

Now, I want to be very straight-forward: this is about the validity of Catholocism as a denomination in Christianity, nothing more. No talk about molestations, no bashing others here, and above all, stay on topic. We've seen the disaster that was the original thread. Let's try again, shall we?

My definition of a Christian is anyone who professes to believe in the doctrine summarized by the Nicene or Apostle's Creed (note: in those creeds, the word "Catholic" means "universal", and is not a reference to the Catholic Church itself).

If we use that definition, then, Catholics are Christians.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Actually if you follow the 'rules' it's not true. I married a Jew in a Catholic church with both a priest and rabbi presiding, with no problems. Neither of us had to give up our religion.

Did he ever openly accuse you of idolatry?

 

[dilloduck]

Actually if you follow the 'rules' it's not true. I married a Jew in a Catholic church with both a priest and rabbi presiding, with no problems. Neither of us had to give up our religion.

Jews can't give up thier religion.

 

[glockmail]

Actually if you follow the 'rules' it's not true. I married a Jew in a Catholic church with both a priest and rabbi presiding, with no problems. Neither of us had to give up our religion.

That must be an interesting marriage. I've often wondered how that could work. If 'no one can come to the Father except through Jesus', then how can one have a sol-mate that does not recognize the Messiah?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

That must be an interesting marriage. I've often wondered how that could work. If 'no one can come to the Father except through Jesus', then how can one have a sol-mate that does not recognize the Messiah?

You could be married to a person and still think they're going to hell. In fact, I think that's usually the situation.:chains:

 

[glockmail]

....


Excuse a forigner... but does this mean? It sounds... sort of bad.

I agree- I had to read it over several times to figure out there was no incest involved. The "brother-in-law" phrase should have been eliminated.

I do know someone who married a woman who was his brother's wife's sister. So he actually married his sister-in-law. We used to joke, of course, that he married his sister....